#1
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Senior cat food?
It is necessary? I think mine is doing better since putting her back on adult food, but I also went up in quality. She is thin, she doesn't need lower cal or fat, I don't think.
But are there other factors to consider senior varieties? Somewhere I read something about another factor to consider for seniors, but I can't remember what it is! |
#2
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If it's like for dog food , no you don't need to buy it. 2 of my 3 dogs are seniors and most of my fosters are also. I never buy that senior stuff. You can just give adult food and cut the amount a bit.
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#3
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I would steer clear of any senior cat food. They tend to be higher in carbohydrates and lower in protein, which isn't good for cats at any age.
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"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb “We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler |
#4
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You are all wrong! I am not an expert on pet food! These different formulas (which are scientifficaly prepared) like kitten or puppy food, senior, etc... have special ingredients in them, which are needed for every stage of the pet's life. I am just a pet lover and owner like you. I think that common sense should be used in this matter. I don't undertand why people on this forum are vet wannabies? Please don't get mad at me!!! A lot of research goes into pet food industry. And that's why pets live longer and healthier lives and also need the vet's care less often. Just my opinion!!!!! I really feel very strongly about this matter.
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#5
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so everybody's wrong and you're right ?
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#6
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Mmmmmmmm...I don't think so. The funny thing about Senior foods is that they are lower in proteins (which animals need and can best absorb) and higher in carbohydrates (which animals need to some extent but don't really need and can't absorb readily, especially those higher in cellulose than others) and the really scary thing in many pet foods period is the amount of SUGAR ~ which animals neither need nor can convert to useable energy.
I am one of those know-nothings about cats but, I do know a little about food. I would STRONGLY recommend that you look to holistic foods for your answer. A less active cat simply needs less food ~ they don't need more starch which has been coated in sugar to make it more palatable. Last edited by mummummum; November 25th, 2007 at 03:31 PM. |
#7
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As do I, enough to research the subject more than most vets. You might be shocked to find out that feline nutrition makes up very little of the average vet student's curriculum. Unless they actively seek out more diverse information sources, what they learn is what pet food companies like Hill's, Purina, Medi-cal etc. teach them in the "seminars" they offer on campus. Oh ya, and the students also get free bags of food while they're going to school: Hill's on Campus
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Rebuttal to Pet Food Industry Response to Hearings Held April 12, 2007. statements in bold by Dr. Hodgkins: Quote:
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"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb “We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler |
#8
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Sugarcatmom ~ that's alot of information. Could you distill your opinon?
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#9
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Kiara what you said was totally uncalled for..
Most of us here who have cats,have had cats forever and do our own research as to what is best for our cats,especially now,with the problems from China. I,ve had cats who lived to be 19yrs old,I never fed any senior cat,senior food,as they grew older they ate a little less on their own. If it was up to my vet,I would be feeding my 3 male cats,Hills or Sience Diet Dry,an extreemly overpriced food,not much better quality than Purina Cat-Chow What I did not know about cat-food before,I've learned from people here,who have done their research and I am very greatful.
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"The cruelest animal is the Human animal" 3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie |
#10
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I have an 'online' friend who is a Vet AND studies nutrition. She did tell me that most 'formulas' are gimmicks. Indoor, hairball, urinary tract, etc.
She did say, however, that puppy food for large breed dogs was not, that is a result of real research. First they thought they needed more carbs, then they figured out it's more protein, not carbs. They want them growing substance before size, or for it to keep pace or something. She does back up that Hills, etc. does a lot of the research, and that Royal Canin, a brand most of us consider not-so-great, is the only one with therapeutic levels of glucosamine, for joints. All the other foods that say they have it don't have therapeutic levels, or it would have to be considered a drug, and be regulated. I don't remember how Royal Canin can have it, maybe it's something besides glucosamine it has for joints. I guess it's not really helpful if I can't remember her words exactly, but what I did take away from it is there is a lot of gimmick, but there are a few things that are trru, and based on Science. Back to cats and senior food - I took mine off when I discovered it seemed merely lower in fat and protein. My cat's fur was awful, had dandruff. Vet said it was age, she's not grooming. Well, she was grooming, I thought, it's diet. Sure enough, she has a beautiful coat now, no dandruff. I looked at the senior ingredients vs adult ingredients of what I was feeding her, meat was no longer first. Can't believe I fed that for years. Somewhere on about.com though, there is something to do with phosphorous or something else that sounded like if you are feeding a quality food, the senior formula might make sense. I was hoping someone here would know what I was talking about, since I can't find it. For now, I'm just going to keep her on adult food. BNO doesn't even offer senior, as many premium foods do not. However, we might be switching to Blue Buffalo. I know, it's not as good. But she will EAT it. I have to mix BNO with Nutro to get her to eat that. Blue Buffalo by itself has got to better than mixing a premium with a mid-grade,,,,,,,,,I think,,,,,,,lol! It's awful trying to figure all this out. Blu Buffalo annoys me because it's like Nutro - it's price is out of line with its quality Wish that on-line friend was still online. I trust a person who has become a vet AND studied nutrition extensively. |
#11
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To be frank Mia, there is no reason why you or I cannot study and understand nutrition. Having a MD or a DVM is not the bee-all and end-all. It is one path of learning. And above else, it should not ever mean "Well naturally they know more than we do". Every doctor worth their salt I know will welcome learning something new ever day.
Knowing a little something about food, I would disagree with your friend around puppy formula's ~ I think they are too laden with unncessary carbohydrates and fillers, too many bad fats and not enough good proteins. But that's just my opinion. |
#12
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What I am saying is that she makes more than a casual study of nutrition. She is and animal nutritionist in addition to being a Vet.
And the fact that a Vet does go to school and learn more than we know about the animal's body and system is meaningful, or we'd just do away with them altogether. She was talking specifically about large breed puppies, and you can't say they all this or that because there are so many different kinds. There was more than one long-term study that showed the value in well-made large-breed puppy food. For other dogs she said it doesn't matter, a good all life stages food is fine. It's fine for the large-breed dogs too, her point was there is a value in the large breed puppy food, it's not a gimmick if made by the right company. They grow so fast, and doing the right mixture of protein, carbs, and fats helps lower the incidences of hip dysplasia and other things that large-breed dogs are prone to. It helps their bodies develop in a way that aids with that. She doesn't pay attention to the other 'special formulas' but this one, and the one for joints by Royal Canin. |
#13
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Okay...
Let's have a look at the ingredients of the puppy "large breed": Chicken meal, brown rice, rice, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, chicken, natural chicken flavor, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), anchovy oil (source of DHA), sodium silico aluminate, dried egg product, psyllium seed husk, potassium chloride, salt, fructo-oligosaccharides, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), choline chloride, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C*), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2) supplement, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], taurine*, DL-methionine, glucosamine hydrochloride*, Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], chondroitin sulfate*, marigold extract (Calendula officinalis L.), preserved with mixed tocopherols (source of Vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract. |
#14
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Here's what I look for ~ four or five out of the first ten ingredients are meat proteins. Preferably the first 2 or 4 will be meal (why meal? more protein than meat). I hate to see rice as a second product and rice products repeated ( husks, gluten) , I also hate to see the word "product ~what exactly is a "chicken meat product"???
I also don't want fillers like rice broken down ten ways (keep it out of the the first three, oh heck say, five ingredients) or ANYTHING like tomato pomace or beet pulp. Corn is a filler. It has litttle to no nutritional value to the puppy. Fat is good. But it depends on the kind. Whole chicken is at this stage not very useful. If it's this low down in the ingredient list list it means there isn't very much of it. As such it still has to be completely dried out. The first five ingedients are critical, the second five are important. |
#15
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Wow. There's only one brand of large breed puppy formula on the planet. I have been educated, thanks!
I will pass this along to the nutritionist, she will be happy to be enlightened as well. |
#16
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1). It's a mistake to have blind faith in vets as a source of info regarding your pet's nutrition. Bias notwithstanding, they typically don't have the time or inclination to stay up-to-date on the subject.Gosh, I don't know if I have the ability to be concise about this topic. I'd better quit before I start madly quoting other sources again.
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"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb “We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler |
#17
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I believe the ingredient list MX3 provided is pretty much the norm for most dog/cat foods (non-holistic, non high-grade) on the market whether it be in pet food supply stores or at the vets. Unfortunately, to those less educated, these are the more popular foods only because the consumer is "convinced" either by the store employees, mass-advertising, or even by their vets. My best advice to anyone, is do your own research and don't take anything as a 'given' just because someone else, or the label, says so. Objectively research each ingredient separately and ask "how does this benefit my pet?"
And I have to admit, I've gratefully learned more about nutrition from several self-educated members of this forum (which in turn optimized my dogs' health) than I have from formally trained vets . Just my .
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"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant Last edited by luckypenny; November 25th, 2007 at 09:46 PM. |
#18
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to say this clearly, all dogs should be fed a diet of less carbs and higher meat based protein, not just large breed puppies. all dogs diets should contain glucosimine, not just senior dogs diets. go as your nutritionist if a commercial kibble diet would even compare to a 'perfectly balanced' fresh food diet. then go ask your cat how its ancestors got here in the first place with out the magic of DRY kibble. -ash
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Pastafarians Unite! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1buym2xUM Swift Tribe- Chris- Husband, 04/30/77 Cailyn- Daughter, 07/05/99 Jeffrey- Son, 03/24/06 Alex- Son, 03/25/09 Mister- Black LabX, M, 08/06(?) The Shadow Stalker- Gray Tux DSH, M, 04/04 The Mighty Hunter- Black Tux DSH, M, 04/04 Baby Girl- Tabby DMH, F, 12/03(?) Frances- Tortie, DSH, F, 2007(?) |
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sorry, really not trying to be rude... -ash
__________________
Pastafarians Unite! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1buym2xUM Swift Tribe- Chris- Husband, 04/30/77 Cailyn- Daughter, 07/05/99 Jeffrey- Son, 03/24/06 Alex- Son, 03/25/09 Mister- Black LabX, M, 08/06(?) The Shadow Stalker- Gray Tux DSH, M, 04/04 The Mighty Hunter- Black Tux DSH, M, 04/04 Baby Girl- Tabby DMH, F, 12/03(?) Frances- Tortie, DSH, F, 2007(?) |
#20
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No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley Last edited by Smiley14; November 26th, 2007 at 02:56 AM. |
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No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley |
#22
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I guess you haven't read the research. Oh well, just stick to your current knowledge base then Also, some of y'all are comparing everything to homemade food, as if that's the only acceptable choice. Some of us are choosing between premium commercial foods, and many educated people here like many of them. It's apples to oranges to compare any commercial food to homemade. My comments are confined to commercial food. For the vast majority of people feeding commercial food, there is a benefit to a good large breed puppy formula. Yes, there is a difference. If your (anyone's) preference is for homemade, that's another topic, can we stick to the one at hand? I am amazed that an argument over what is best, and telling someone how ignorant they are, always garners more posts than adding to knowledge. It seems more people are interested in being holier than thou than discussing, educating, and learning. This is not directed at you, but at the comments in general I see in this thread. |
#23
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But, sometimes an edu-me-cation comes the hard way. |
#24
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PLUS, there are people who are not going to be convinced to buy high-grade foods. For them, using mid-grade or what have you, the puppy formula for large breeds in their brands may have merit. Let's not be so narrow-minded. We are here (I thought?) to learn more about pet food, not get into contests every time there is conflicting opinions of the knowledge we already have. |
#25
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I think in the long run everyone needs to research and buy the best food they can afford for their cat or dog.
Cats don't need senior forumla foods, they need a good quality food at all stages of life and as they age, they just tend to eat less of it. As for the whole large breed puppy thing.....in no way related to senior cat food, but my understanding is that just like any other food, pay attention to the ingredients.....calcium levels in puppy foods are one of the main problems with puppy formulas. They need to be well under 3% or you're going to have problems with bones, whether they be large breed or any breed puppy. I don't believe a large puppy food is really necessary, I would think any good quality regular food or puppy food would be all that's required. Some people and breeders become far too preoccupied with how fast or how big a puppy is going to get, some believe the bigger the better, which in my opinion has resulted in some large breed and regular puppy formulas to produce foods that will give that effect and some breeders who breed for size instead of health. Cindy |
#26
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Unless you see something I don't, I only see "discussing, educating and learning" going on here. |
#27
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I agree totally with everything Mummummum has said here. Until the whole pet food crisis happened and I came to Pets.ca. I had no idea what were good and bad ingredients on a label. I found great grain free foods for my cats and dogs through this forum from people like Prin, W4R and wonderful people just like them. I now know what ingredients to look for and appreciate all the wonderful help I've gotten. I don't have to worry about corn and rice gluten from China anymore, nor will I ever have to again. I know enough to do my own research and not believe every commercial or vet I talk to. It's been a wonderful ongoing educational experience. Cindy |
#28
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I have never switched any of my seniors(cats or dogs) to senior food.To me there is no need to.
My 11 year old GSD is still fed adult.All my GSD's were switched to adult at 6 months.This being advised by my breeder.I also know of many breeders who skip the puppy food and go straight to adult with their pups.And these are breeders of large dogs. As I was watching CHCH(hamilton station)..They had an animal nutritionist.His thoughts were the same as most of ours on here.I did't catch his website,and I wish I did.He pointed out many good things.But I did get another website he mentioned.It's by Wendy Volhard VERY good reading if you ask me. http://volhard.com/holistic/artbywv.htm#nut
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"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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I have recently switched my senior cat from a high carb/corn filled kibble to higher quality canned. Sugarcatmom and Growler (I know Growler you haven't commented in this thread, but you helped me so much with cat nutrition in the past) have both proven to be extremely knowledgeable in commercial food and W4R in raw diets. I have done a lot of comparisons of high end food and senior food and have found senior food to be filled with carbs.
I can tell you since changing her food, her gums are much pinker, she is more active, and she seems less depressed and she will now eat real meat. My ultimate goal is get them on a prepared raw diet/meat based diet. I had a cat who passed away from cancer at 14 years old, but was not sick one day in his life, was not overweight and 50% of his diet was human grade meat (both raw and cooked), the other 50% canned, with by-products, but no corn/wheat gluten. I truely believe cats are better off with raw, then homecooked, then high quality, high meat protein canned. Cats digestive tracts do not process carbs very well, they are too short. In summary, I will not feed my cat senior food. She is not overweight and needs her protein from real meat.
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
#30
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Quote:
http://www.catinfo.org/#Cats_Need_Pl...ith_Their_Food
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey Last edited by Love4himies; November 26th, 2007 at 12:35 PM. |
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