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Grain-free vs. non grain-free diet?
I have never had a kitten before and recently adopted one. I took my baby to the vet for the first time for his first round of shots and the vets insisted that I feed him "Purina Vet-Approved Pediatric" food. When I countered by saying that I fed him what I had heard was a healthier diet, e.g. grain-free, the vet clinicians responded that the grain-free is better idea is just a myth, that it's better for the kitten to get fed these vet science-y diets (which apparently includes things like corn-meal, gluten, grains, etc.) so that he gets all of his nutrients....
I want my kitten to stay healthy in every possible way for as long as possible. It was tough to believe the clinicians because they really seemed to be product pushing. (I won't go into all the details of our conversation that led me to believe that they were product pushing but I strongly felt that this was the was the case). Currently, I feed my 14-week old indoor cat the "Now!" brand's grain-free kitten dry food formula (turkey, duck, and salmon...the only kind they have). If you all have an opinion about grain versus grain-free or know of anything better, please feel free to dole out advice. Again...I've never, ever had a cat before and now I have a (beautiful) little kitten to take care of so I'm a new parent complete with the "am I doing it right?" jitters! Thanks |
#2
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kost vets know zilch about good cat food I usually respond " have you ever seen a cat eat green beans?
the best is grain free wet food that way they get there water and food too like they would in the wild best of luck with your kitty and welcome to the forum |
#3
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The very best thing you can do for your kitten is to get him off the dry food all together and onto a good canned food. Cats need their fluids with their food, not beside their food.
This is a wonderful site to read. It is an eye opener. www.catinfo.org. Of course vets and their techs will tell you their food is the best thing going. They make money off of every bag/can they sell. Cats are obligate carnivours. They need meat. Not veggies, not corn (we can't digest corn so how can cats?), not grains. Ooops, sorry. Forgot to give you some names of foods. Wellness kitten is a good all round food to give your little one a good start. He can then graduate to Wellness grain free, Natural Balance, Innova Evo, etc. If you real labels you can quickly tell what foods are good and which ones aren't so good.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! Last edited by 14+kitties; March 11th, 2011 at 05:00 PM. |
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Grain-free for sure for a cat/kitten,I am not certain ,but I believe "Now"also comes in canned,definitely better to get her used to canned from the start.
There are several good canned foods grainfree. I too had a vet who pushed the bad stuff,actually there were several vets in the office,after arguing with them about this and that,food included,I now have a wonderful vet who agrees 100% on grain-free canned. I also wanted to say,WELCOME TO OUR FORUM and to the wonderful world of kittens/cats
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"The cruelest animal is the Human animal" 3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie |
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I went grain free with my dogs and what a difference in their stools. A lot less to pick up as well. I am convinced it's best. You should read what's in the vet's prescription kibble...........
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Now having said that, it would be best if you could switch your kitten over to all wet food, as 14+ mentioned. Kibble, even grain-free, is not an appropriate feline diet, for reasons thoroughly discussed in the catinfo link. There are lots of really good canned food choices, and even balanced frozen raw food that's as easy to feed as opening a can. If you're feeling particularly adventurous, you can even make your own raw with a bit of research beforehand. I also urge you to limit the amount of vaccinations your kitten gets. I'm running out of time so I'll just post a link for you to check out on that topic: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....t=vaccinations
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"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb “We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler |
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Yes, One of my adopted cats likes green beans and coldslaw. I think that her former profession was thief and garbage eater. ps. no, I do not feed her a diet of green beans and coldslaw. |
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I can certainly tell you that a kitten who is on a raw/quality canned diet WILL develop more muscle mass than a kitten on kibble or low quality food. That in itself is proof that meat protein is so important in the development of the kitten.
You could always ask your vet where in a carnivore's diet corn/wheat gluten fits in?
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
#9
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1) It is way better than than the cheap junk many kittens are fed 2) If it's on your vet's shelf, your vet gets a cut of the price 3) As it is your first kitten maybe you would not know where to start. 4) Research into grain-free diets, raw diets, herbal/veggie/fruit supplements is minimal, and your vet may be one who doesn't believe anything until it is proven in research. 5) There are, in fact, so many brands and varieties out there that your vet hasn't the time to become familiar with them. Companies like Petcurean use the research Purina has done to make a food that has all the nutrients your kitten does, and then add in their own features: grain-free, low processing, no artificial preservatives, various holistic herb/fruit/veggie supplements... If you look at the ingredients label on your bag of Now!, you will see a long list of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. that they have added to ensure your kitty gets what she needs. You will also an AAFCO statement, don't feed anything without one on the label. I do believe that you have made a good choice for your kitten. But keep in mind, every kitten is an individual, if your kitten is healthy, the food is working. However, if I were you, I would seriously consider a new vet. As a person who is interested in newer ideas, and a more holistic approach to your kitten's health and nutrition, you would be better matched with a vet who is comfortable with your philosophies. I would also have some concerns that a product-pushing vet might also encourage you to do unnecessary tests or procedures, rather than doing what's best for your kitten and listening to your choices and opinions. |
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! |
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9-Lives has a pretty decent list of vitamins and minerals on their label too, but I wouldn't feed that to my worst enemy.
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There are only two rules at my house: House rule #1. Cats rule. House rule #2. See rule #1. http://nuriaandthegang.shutterfly.com/ |
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#14
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1) His income is higher priority than what's best for the cat, and 2) He thought he knew everything 20 years ago, quit learning, and knows little of recent advances in nutrition or elsewhere. If you need to confirm for yourself that Purina is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel, you may need to look harder. You may be shocked what's out there that people feed their cats. Now! does have canned food as well. Please be careful when you say a cat should have their water with their food not beside it. A cat should always have access to clean fresh water regardless of what they are fed, and I am quite certain more than once I have seen a stray cat on a very natural mouse-based diet drink water. Yes I do believe it is okay to feed a cat fruits, vegetables, and even grains. Carnivore is a relative term: dogs are more carnivorous than humans; cats are more carnivorous than dogs. Feral, farm, and wild cats do not eat solely muscle meat, they eat the the whole animal, including the large portion of the prey that is their stomach and intestinal contents. They will also eat vegetable amount in varying smaller amounts. No, I do not believe wheat, rice, corn, etc. should be a large portion of the diet of a cat, dog, or human. I would love to see a tested approved mouse-based or rabbit-based raw diet that would be more suitable for cats and small dogs. I know they exist, but only in vary large cities. |
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! |
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A cat needs a bowl of fresh water available regardless of what she is fed, and regardless of how rarely some cats may use it. You could wet their food to the point of soup, and I would still say, offer the plain fresh water for whenever they want or need it. Good luck with the job. I'll go to that website and get back to you on what I read, it's a bit long so not right now. As for what I was saying about mice and rabbits, I was unclear. I did not mean that an identical diet would be suitable for both cats and dogs. I was just stating that a major natural meat source that would be a suitable ingredient for a raw cat food and for a raw small dog food is largely unavailable. |
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there is an all meat based diet,,it's called a raw diet...where you go to the store buy raw meat,,organ meats,,etc prepare it in proper amounts then feed it to your pets,,personally that is the best diet for a pet over canned or kibble.
To the OP,,a canned diet would be much better for your kitten. Wellness, Evo etc are excellent foods,,i would rather feed an kitten a less than perfect canned diet over a kibble diet any day and in the long run it will save you money on vet fees. |
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Thank you so much to all those cat savvy people: L4H, SCM, Chico2 and of course 14+K..for all their knowledge and advice. And of course yes...Aslan as well. |
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You said:
Quote: Originally Posted by 14+kitties The very best thing you can do for your kitten is to get him off the dry food all together and onto a good canned food. Cats need their fluids with their food, not beside their food. Common sense is great, but I'm afraid it is not common at all. The statement can easily be interpreted as discouraging the presentation of water separate from the food. Regardless of how rarely some cats may use it. You could wet their food to the point of soup, and I would still say, offer the plain fresh water for whenever they want or need it. Ahh, I see. I suppose that "could" in a stretch be taken that I meant not to leave water out for your cats so - I will apologize. I would hope there are not that many asinine people out there that would be so _______ (fill in the blank) as to think cats do not need water. I will rectify that immediately. Cats, because of their long ago origin as being desert dwellers, if given a "natural" diet of mice, rabbits and other small animals, derive most of their fluid intake from the very animals they eat. If not given that choice then they need a diet, canned or balanced raw, where their water should be included. Yes, they still need a bowl of fresh water when/if they chose to drink water. I'll go to that website and get back to you on what I read, it's a bit long so not right now. As for what I was saying about mice and rabbits, I was unclear. I did not mean that an identical diet would be suitable for both cats and dogs. I was just stating that a major natural meat source that would be a suitable ingredient for a raw cat food and for a raw small dog food is largely unavailable. Mmmmm, there was a member a while back - didn't stick around for long - who stated that he figured that mice could be raised akin to livestock; being left in the garage with "the wife" throwing feed to them. See why he wasn't around long? He was then going to put his dog in an I think "empty or spare" room to "catch" the mouse which I am assuming his poor wife would have had to pick and take to said room. Sorry to be so . As for a suitable natural meat source - I do not live in a large city but I can go to my Pet Valu and get raw foods for my cats (if they would deign to eat it, spoiled little buggers). Also, Global Pet Foods are now in quite a few smaller cities. They have a wonderful array of foods for cats and dogs. There is the hunter route if you so choose. There is even buying, as aslan stated, the meat source in a grocery store or from a butcher and making raw yourself. All readily available. There's always ways to get that natural meat source if you take the time to look. Now really, we are going back and forth on the same thing. I think it's time to move on now. The member who started this thread has not been back to reply. If the OP would like to come back and ask questions so she can learn about feeding her kitten I would be more than happy to help her. Other than that I am done "arguing" semantics.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! |
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Lucky you to have never met one of those ******* people yet. Yes they are out there, and in this day and age they even have access to the internet. They are scary.
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Hi SamIam, welcome to pets.ca! Not to threadjack (okay, maybe a little) but I just want to address some of your points about cat food.
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Purina Cat Chow Corn meal poultry by-product meal corn gluten meal soy flour Meow Mix ground yellow corn corn gluten meal chicken by-product meal soybean meal 9Lives Whole ground corn poultry by-product meal corn gluten meal soybean meal Gosh, remarkably similar wouldn't you say? If you can find a worse food on the market, please let me know. Quote:
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Something else you might not know is that an AAFCO feeding trial consists of feeding 8 cats or dogs the same food for 6 months. If 6 of the 8 animals survive the 6 months, then it's considered "complete and balanced for the life of your pet". I'm not making this up. I wish I were. You might not remember this but in the '80s, a large number of cats became seriously ill due to a taurine deficiency. They'd been eating commercial cat food that had that good ol' AAFCO stamp, but were later discovered to be lacking sufficient taurine. A taurine deficiency takes many months, even years, to manifest as ill health. These foods passed the ridiculously lax feeding trial requirements. But it's still a CAT. With very specific feline nutritional requirements that don't have a lot of room for error. Just because a cat looks healthy on the outside, doesn't mean there isn't damage being done on the inside. And the damage is often cumulative, over a period of many years. Diabetes doesn't pop up the first time you feed kibble. But by the time a cat is 8 or 9 or 12, all of those years of eating inappropriate food takes its toll and the pancreas burns out, or the kidneys start to fail, or the intestinal tract is so inflamed that no nutrients can be absorbed. This part, I agree with.
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"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb “We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler |
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whimsicalator:
Welcome to Pets, it is a great place to learn about kitties. The best diet for your kitten would be a properly prepared raw diet, no veggies or fruit needed. I do find, though, that commercially made raw diets can have too much bone in it and cause constipation, so what I have done when I was purchasing it was to add a bit of fresh meat to it. Other really great foods are: Wellness, canned, the grainfree varieties Natures Variety, Instinct Fromm's 4 star Organics by Nature These foods can be found in a quality pet food store, not in a grocery store. You will find if you feed your kitten a raw diet, it will have superior muscle mass to a kibble diet, that is proof that it is far healthier than processed food, especially kibble. As was pointed out in previous posts, cats should get their water from their food, that is the way nature intended for animals to get it. Nature did not provide glasses for animals to drink from, but just a tongue that is not efficient at lapping up water. Imagine yourself eating crackers all day and trying to get enough fluids by licking up water. That is what is happening to your cat if you feed it kibble. Your cat will be chronically dehydrated. SamIam, just a quick comment on eating the contents of the stomach: My super hunter, Snowball, did not eat the contents of the stomach, usually just the heads, except if it was a baby bunny , then the contents of the stomach were left for me to clean up. . Also, a deer was killed by a pack of coyotes a couple of years ago in my back yard, The ONLY thing left behind was the contents of the stomach which the crows took care of.
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey Last edited by Love4himies; March 19th, 2011 at 06:31 AM. Reason: Had to add IMO in front of Purina |
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