Now My Dog is a Pitbull and has to die?

[JenSteele]

Today, we had a visit from the Kitchener-Waterloo Humane Society. Not because our dog bit anyone. Not because our dog barked at anyone. Not because our dog did anything to anyone. A person in our neighbourhood who isn't particually fond of anyone, called the Humane Society and told them that we had a pitbull. We've been told we have to kill or move our dog.

When we first got the dog, Lily, we had our concerns when a person at Petcetera asked if she's a pitbull. So we called the Humane Society of Kitchener Waterloo and they said "If she ends up being classified as a pitbull you'll have to spay her, have a locator chip put in her, have her restrained and muzzled when she's outside, and allow unannounced visits to your home by the Humane Society to ensure you stay in complience." We then had her seen by 3 different vets, to be really safe, and all came back as lab cross or lab/boxer, no staff no pitbull anywhere on the papers.

When the humane society showed up at our door taking pictures of our dog and saying she has to be moved out of province or destroyed because they - the Humane Society - are calling her a pitbull on a neighbours complaint, we were completely blown away. We told the moron who said the word destroyed with a smile on her face that we've had 3 vets classify her to be sure, her response was "Vet's will put anything down anything you tell them to."

So now, a dog that we love dearly, who is gentle, good with kids and all people, wags just because the sun came up, is going to be shipped away or destroyed because the Humane Society thinks vets lie for a living.

Can anyone point me to any body, group, something in Ontario who will help us fight for our dog's life?

Much appreciated.
Jen

[kayla]

what an aweful story i don't know much about the laws but i didn't think pit bulls had to be "destroyed", i thought they just had to be muzzled when outdoors? hopefully someone here can help you out better than me. good luck!

[Trinitie]

This really breaks my heart. Can anyone in Ontario point her in the right direction??

[LavenderRott]

Hold on a sec and I will see what I can find out.

[Beaglemom]

From what I understand of the new law, all pit bull type dogs must be spayed/neutered and muzzled and leashed in public and registered. All dogs currently residing in Ontario can stay so long as they are in compliance with the above. All of this comes into effect in August. No dog currently residing in Ontario with their owners have to be shipped away or destroyed. Although, like CoppersMom said, there are some municipalities that have their own bylaw already in effect and this may be the case in your situation.

I know of someone who has a pit bull and the humane society only asked that they provide proof of immunization and a dog license. There was no mention of them having to ship the dog out of province or have the dog destroyed. This happened in Toronto.

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by Beaglemom

From what I understand of the new law, all pit bull type dogs must be spayed/neutered and muzzled and leashed in public and registered. All dogs currently residing in Ontario can stay so long as they are in compliance with the above. All of this comes into effect in August. No dog currently residing in Ontario with their owners have to be shipped away or destroyed. Although, like CoppersMom said, there are some municipalities that have their own bylaw already in effect and this may be the case in your situation.

I know of someone who has a pit bull and the humane society only asked that they provide proof of immunization and a dog license. There was no mention of them having to ship the dog out of province or have the dog destroyed. This happened in Toronto.

The new law in Ontario is moot in this case. Kitchner - Waterloo is a whole nother ball of wax.

Jen - check your pm's.

[JenSteele]

First, thank-you all so much about your replies and thoughts and suggestions. We're doing everything that anyone comes up with. We have people calling the Vetrenary Society of Canada because of the remarks made by the KWHS, the Toronto Humane Society who spoke out against the pitbull legislation, mps, mpps, and as many people who will give us an ear. To answer a few questions.

Yes we're right in Kitchener. The dog was not registered as a pitbull because we trusted that two vets in two seperate cities and one vet who works exclusively at an emergency clinic, all with over 20 years of experience each, knew what they were looking at.

Yes there's a bi-law in Kitchener that completely bans pitbulls. This law, that has been in effect since 1997 - which I found out about today, was never mentioned to us when we originally called the Humane Society for advice when we first got Lily. You would think with such a harsh and cruel law in place they would have told us about it to make us aware of what we might run into if we didn't classify our dog.

The pending Ontario Law passed this year is what was stated to us originally. Considering she was definitely living with us before March 1, 2005, the restrain, muzzle, spay and monitor should be all we're looking at, however, unknown to a lot of dog owners in this area, Kitchener-Waterloo quiety passed an additional municipal law in 1997. The KW-HS made no mention whatsoever of the KW bi-law. So much for trusting the Humane Society to know what's what. Instead, they now say we have to destroy her because we didn't register her as a pitbull. They're now not even giving us the option of moving her away. But we're digging our heals in. In a conversation with the SPCA there have been more than just a few complaints about the Kitchener-Waterloo Humane Society.

The timeline from that person's inquirey at petcetera if she's a pitbull, to calling the HS for advice and having her see vets was within one week of getting her. She's now just over a year old.

If I missed anything please let me know. I'll check my pms now. Thanks! If you pray, pray for the innocent. What people do with irresponsible laws, putting people in charge with no training, caring very little to get facts, if any at all, is going to have a lot of dogs destroyed in Ontario.

Jen

[bluntman]

Originally Posted by JenSteele

They're now not even giving us the option of moving her away. But we're digging our heals in. In a conversation with the SPCA there have been more than just a few complaints about the Kitchener-Waterloo Humane Society. Jen

Good for you jen! , dig in those heals and fight for what you know is right. They cannot stop you from relocateing her to save her life, they are definatly trying to bully, and intimadate you . Here is the link for avocates for the under dog, E-mail them your situation and hopefully they can help.
http://www.advocatesfortheunderdog.com/

[Schwinn]

Who's the group who hired Clayton Ruby? Advocates for the Underdog? This sounds like the perfect opportunity to challenge a BSL in court. 3 experts claim the dog isn't a pit, and some putz with an axe to grind says it is? Wrong. If anyone has the link, post it here.

[JenSteele]

Found them.. we're contacting them now. Thanks!

[Copper'sMom]

Try these two links:

http://www.bannedaid.com

http://advocatesfortheunderdog.com/index.html

[Copper'sMom]

OMG!!! I can't believe this. First off, I'm so sorry for your situation - this is horrible.

Is your dog registered with the city?? Are you located right in Kitchener? I think there is a ban on Pit Bulls in Kitchener and if your dog was not registered before this took effect, you may have no options but to move.

With the new ban for all of Ontario, any dog that looks like a Pit, will automatically be condemned until they get the their ***** together as who can identify what breed a dog is or isn't unless you have a pure bred whatever WITH registration papers and the bloodlines.

[Copper'sMom]

How long have you had the dog and how long ago was it that you called the HS to ask about IF she was a Pit Bull when someone from Petcetera asked is she was a Pit?

[levimh]

This is ridiculous. I just read in the paper this morning about a family, that owns a 13-year-old APBT, which they have to give over to the municipality to be destroyed because that county has banned "pit bulls", Rottweilers, Dobes, and AmStaffs. This 13-year-old dog has absolutely no history of aggression.

Sorry, I don't know of any groups, clubs or organizations, but I'm sure someone on here will be along shortly to help. Keep fighting and good luck!

[BMDLuver]

http://bulliesinneed.fivepixelmedia.com/

Try this group. They may be able to help you fight this and they will definitely be able to point you in the right direction. I'm very sorry that you and your family are being so badly treated by your community and HS. Give your girl a big hug and fight hard!

[canine14]

Am so sorry. Kudos to you for fighting for your girl. Someone should start a class action suit against the government for violation of human rights.

[lezzpezz]

Just a quick question.

I noticed that you would like us to address any emails to the KWHS with "Saving Lily The Lab-Cross Pitbull on Birch Street", but you state that numerous professionals have decided unanimously that she is indeed NOT a pit bull cross. Just wondering if "pitbull" should be used here while addressing KWHS, as this just might further their case. Perhaps we should address our letters as such: "Save Lily, The Lab-Cross on Birch Street" , to prevent any unnecessary confusion? It seems to me that if you put "pitbull" in the heading, you are agreeing with them.

[lezzpezz]

Author Larkin, Peter, Dr.
Title The complete dog book : a comprehensive, practical care and training manual and a definitive encyclopedia of world breeds / Peter Larkin, Mike Stockman ; photography by John Daniels.
Pub info [S.l.] : Acropolis Books, c1997.


Title The complete dog book : the photograph, history and official standard of every breed admitted to AKC registration, and the selection, training, breeding, care and feeding of pure-bred dogs.
Pub info New York : Howell Book House, 1992.
Edition 18th ed.
Note Includes index.

Title The Kennel Club's illustrated breed standards: the official guide to registered breeds.
Pub info London : Ebury Press, 1998.


Author Caras, Roger A.
Title The Roger Caras dog book : [a complete guide to every AKC breed] : Roger Caras; photographs by Alton Anderson.
Pub info New York : M. Evans, 1996
Edition 3rd ed.
Note Includes index.

[JenSteele]

Those sound great, again, we can not get any of those books here. So anyone who can get their hands on them, if you could scan the pages and send them one at a time to sandra@savinglily.com That would be GREAT!

Thanks!
Jen

[raingirl]

jen, check your PMs

[lezzpezz]

I don't have a scanner! I will get the books today and try to figure out how to scan the needed info to you asap. The books are scattered here and there throughout the system, so it may take a few days to order them all in to my location IF they are still found on the shelves. I will do post haste!

[lezzpezz]

Originally Posted by JenSteele

Those sound great, again, we can not get any of those books here. So anyone who can get their hands on them, if you could scan the pages and send them one at a time to sandra@savinglily.com That would be GREAT!

Thanks!
Jen

When you say scan the pages, do you mean just the title/cover page with the title, author and copyright info or do you mean scan the entire contents of the book?? I'm hoping you mean just the required info as you mentioned earlier.

I have placed holds on these items and will scoop the others today and find a scanner somewhere.....

[JenSteele]

I mean to scan the pages that show the pictures of:

American Pitbull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Labrador Retriever
Boxer

Needed are the breed standards and the pictures that go with those standards, not every breed in the book

Thanks so much!
Jen

[JenSteele]

Please Please Please sign this if you live in Canada and tell everyone you know to sign it...

It is because of the way the Canadian Municipal Code is written that cities with BSL are able to strip dog owners of their legal rights. Even if they overturn the provincial legislation, cities are still able to do whatever they want because of this code.

PLEASE pass it on and get people to sign it as soon as you can..
Thanks!

http://www.petitiononline.com/sandra99/petition.html

[lezzpezz]

Originally Posted by JenSteele

I mean to scan the pages that show the pictures of:

American Pitbull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Labrador Retriever
Boxer

Needed are the breed standards and the pictures that go with those standards, not every breed in the book

Thanks so much!
Jen

Okeydokey, those breeds plus the title/author/copyright info. You'll never guess what happened! I just went to pull these books and found several more on the topic, all in reference section! Then, I mentioned the need for a scanner to a co-worker, and she is GIVING me one that is an extra at her house! What are the odds of that?!? Now we're in business!!

[rottndakota]

Hello to all !

My name is Lee Ann O'Reilly and I am the president of the Dog Legislation Council of Canada. www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org

Right now our council is reviewing Lily's case and attempting to find out more as to who is in charge of identifying seized dogs.It is terribly wrong to say the least that a humane society would particpate in making the seizure of any dog living in a loving home permissible.In fact this whole case and many others we are working on offends our sense of justice,it offends our rights under the Charter of Rights.

It is a difficult situation to say the least as pit bull and pit bull like dogs in KW have been taken and euthanized for no other reason than breed bigotry.

Sadly,all over Ontario we will be watching in horror as innocent families and their dogs are punished for the past crimes of the negligent dog owners as of August 29th 2005.BILL 132 MUST BE DEFEATED.

I wish to take some time here and clarify some points.

The DLCC was created by responsible dog owners who were fed up of being alone ,fighting BSL and praying that someother organization would stand up and take on the fight.We stand for ALL RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS.

THE DOGS OF ONTARIO NEED YOUR HELP.


PLEASE HELP US FIGHT BREED SPECIFIC LEGISLATION IN ONTARIO.


Why should you care about the proposed ban of pitbulls, Staffies and Amstaffs in Ontario? Especially if you're in another part of Canada, or the world? After all, "the sacrifice of the few if the vast majority is spared", what could be easier?

This is why. Breed specific legislation ("BSL") historically bans one breed at a time, then another, then another. BSL slowly erodes dog owners' rights. Once one breed has been banned, the precedent is set and all breeds are at risk; indeed, all dogs are at risk. Under BSL, the list of banned breeds usually gets longer over time. Italy is a prime example with its BSL targeting over 90 breeds, including breeds usually considered benign such as the bearded collie.

BSL enforcement relies on the arbitrary judgement of police and animal control officers who may not have the training, expertise or even the legal right (depending on legal interpretation of the Canada Animal Pedigree Act) to identify a dog's breed. Seizure of what the officer thinks is a banned-breed dog may result in the dog being euthanized or sold to a research laboratory.

Ontario's Bill 132 permits an officer to enter your home without a warrant and seize or destroy your dog, regardless of breed. Destroy your dog in your home. It happened in England and Germany, it can happen here.

Are you now looking at your dog and starting to feel very uneasy, even a bit afraid?

You should.
Your breed may be next.

The DLCC has now joined forces with four others - the American Staffordshire Terrier Club of Canada, the Golden Horseshoe American Pit Bull Terrier Club, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of Canada, and Shirley Bell of Bellcrest Boxers - as Banned Aid, to fight BSL in Ontario.

Banned Aid has engaged Clayton Ruby as Banned Aid's legal counsel to fight BSL on behalf of Ontario dog owners and breeders at the provincial level. This fight is going to be expensive; the early estimate for the legal challenge is $100,000.

We need your financial support to mount this battle against BSL in Ontario and possibly establish national precedent. Every dollar will help. There are several ways you can donate.

1. You can mail your cheque payable to the DLCC to:
Cathy Prothro
351 Pleasant Street
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia B2Y 3S4
Canada

2. For your convenience you can deposit from any bank directly into the Banned Aid Legal Fund by depositing to:
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce,
Penhorn Mall,
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Account 00513 010 1526839

3. You can also make an online payment from your financial institution's website by sending a bill payment to treasurer@doglegislationcouncilcanada.org

4. You may prefer to donate by PAY PAL. Please go to www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org and click on the "Donate!" link for the Pay Pal tool.

5. Send cheques or money orders directly to Mr Ruby at the following address,c/o BANNED AID LEGAL CHALLENEGE FUND

Ruby & Edwardh
11 Prince Arthur Ave.
Toronto, Ont.
M5R1B2
416 964 9664

The Dog Legislation Council of Canada ("DLCC") is a Canada-wide non-profit organization dedicated to promoting responsible dog ownership, assisting provincial and municipal governments to develop effective licensing and enforcement legislation, and educating the public regarding dog bite prevention. The DLCC does not support any legislation that targets a breed instead of the real problem - the irresponsible owner. Its members are expected to abide by and promote the DLCC Code of Ethics.
The DLCC is a proud member of the Banned Aid Legal Challenge Fund.

Contact: president@doglegislationcouncilcanada.org or vicepresident@doglegislationcouncilcanada.org.
Website: http://www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org/

For more information, please contact:

info@doglegislationcouncilcanada.org

www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org

www.bannedaid.com

LeeAnn O'Reilly RN,PBMH
Pres.Dog Legislation Council of Canada
president@doglegislationcouncilcanada.org
www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org
www.bannedaid.com

[JenSteele]

To the President of the DLCC, so far you've been a great help in pointing us in the different directions we have to go and pointing us in a few wrong ones but that's par for the course when you weren't aware of the legislation we were fighting here.

We haven't heard from anyone at the DLCC since we sent our email out to all the organizations asking who will be joining us on the 27th. We still haven't received a reply. We sent in Lily's bio as requested and were told that every effort would be made to find her a place if it goes poorly. But we've called and sent emails and nobody has responded to say they even got her bio and her picture. We figured you were too busy on to other things and that's why nobody has contacted us for almost a week. We understand you can't be everywhere and can't help everyone but one little email letting us know the picture went up somewhere? We took that into our own hands now like we did our legal council and on foot to get our story out and to the people who would pass it along.

Yes of course BSL must end in Ontario, it must end everywhere period. The provincial government pointed to Kitchener in several of their Legislative Assembly addresses as the prime example of how BSL works because it's been here for almost 8 years. In their addresses they quoted the lies and unproven facts that our councilors used to get it in. Yes BSL must be stopped in Ontario and in Canada, but don't forget there's a clause in there that says if a Municipality has a more severe legislation, like the one Kitchener does, that it is the legislation that will be supersede the provincial one. I'm sorry but if I have a choice of killing my dog or muzzling my dog I'll take the lesser of the two evils and work to have the one that would have my dog killed abolished until I can turn my efforts to the other.

Our website was hit by the ontario legislature 122 times today and by Kitchener City Hall 94 times. On our own we've started a petition to get peoples rights back federally, and to force the resignation of councilors and the end of BSL on the municipal level. Your organization promised us media coverage and help from politicians, we're still waiting for Alex Pierson to show up and Kormos to call.

Nobody told us that your council is looking into it. We contacted Clayton Ruby ourselves and didn't hear back from him. So we hired a firm from Ottawa ourselves who are familiar with these sorts of fights, municipal issues, win them, and agree with how the provincial government is holding up Kitchener as an example, paying for it out of our own pocket the way 100s of people are having to do every month across the country. We didn't give anyone else permission to act as our council and we're satisfied with whom we've chosen because they took the time to listen to us and didn't make us feel like we're not important enough to return a phone call. We know, and so does everyone else what should have happened was efforts were made in every city to fight BSL so the provincial government wouldn't have attempted this.. now we, the private citizens are left to cleaning up our cities and we'll do it.. and when we kick it out of Kitchener we're on to the next one..

I'm sorry if we interferred with the focus, but this is our dog and our family in our city and we're not giving her up because we're supposed to focus on a provincial agenda... Even if the province is won, Kitchener will keep killing until somebody stops it here and every city that has a stronger legislation will keep killing unless there's ALSO people in the cities working to fight there as well, and not just BSL. From the city level we have municipal codes to deal with, political agendas for every party, media that helps the city hide the bad stuff and we get to do all this all by ourselves.

We have a law firm, we have a place for Lily and we have a fight on our hands because the good people in this forum came rushing to our side and wouldn't let us get discouraged and helped us continue fighting when your emails and phonecalls stopped.

I believe in what you doing at the DLCC, but we were abandoned and then you swoop in post this suddenly making our quest as private citizens not an organization, shutting our business down to fight, tredging the streets to get petitions signed, people who have never met us rushing to get us information, putting pressure on politicians at ALL levels of government, every party, our sleepness nites of searching for the truth and revealing things that were never posted before anywhere... our own little fight in our own little corner of the world now looks insignificant. We weren't doing this for which organization will take down BSL first, we're doing this because we can feel the hearts of every person out there going through the same thing.

I apologize if anyone feels we've wasted your time. And for those who have been so generous in helping us, and to the few people who donated what they could to help us with this struggle if you feel it should go to the DLCC instead, then that's what well do. We'll find other ways to keep going... we vowed to the people in this forum before we contacted you that we wouldn't give up from the day they came rushing to our side and we promise we won't.

We'll struggle through this without an agenda other than to stand shoulder to shoulder will others like us... as the people we've always been fighting for what we believe in either way... We were told another owner contacted you some time ago and then you never heard from her again... I hope she didn't feel as abandoned by the DLCC as we do now..

Sorry all... apparently our hometown fight isn't important enough to warrant asking for your help...

Jen

[Schwinn]

I promised to help you, Jen, and that's where I'll be sending my donation. I'm sorry to hear that it sounds as though you aren't getting the help we thought you would. In my opinion, until the ban goes province wide, we need to fight this on the individual level, so that's where I'll be focusing my funds for now.

[JenSteele]

Thanks so much Schwinn... once again somebody restores our faith in people

We're still fuming a little bit over that post but were back and focused on fighting probably even harder now knowing that we really are in this as private citizens doing it for ourselves. Our lawyer may not be costing us a retainer of 250,000 but ours, interested in helping us instead of being in the papers, is already getting results...

It's really unfortunate that all of these organizations who say they're all banned together seem to all be fighting different independent battles. Every organization we spoke to gave us a different game plan except for the Advocates for the Underdog who by email pointed us in the direction we needed to go for helping us do what we needed to do first without any other agenda than making sure we were focused. We were a bit disappointed that we haven't heard from them much but at least with them they started us off in the right direction and we know they're fighting in Windsor which has even more unfair outcomes than Kitchener so my hat is off to them for standing shoulder to shoulder with the people there without any agenda but to help.

I think the worst advice from an organization we were given was to get the breed standards for Boxer and Lab and try to prove she's that instead of focusing on the breed standards they say she is. Much easier to say something is not than to say something is. We spent a lot of wasted hours documenting every inch of Lily to be advised by the lawyer, who's done this before, to focus on the other breed standards. Again I can't stress to people more to get the word out to get a lawyer.. The organizations didn't even know that we could call the the Law Society of Upper Canada for a 1/2 hour for $6.00 to get much needed advice or a second opinion to ensure we picked the right lawyer. They know now.

On our own we found out that Ward McAlister made up his own Canadian version of what a pitbull is that he's been using to judge dogs since 1997 or that he said publicly that a pit bull isn't a breed. We found that out, not through an organization but by personally harassing the local press until, while we're not getting front page, they're at least feeding us information that is helping us and to redeem themselves. That's a vital piece of information that would have helped a lot of cities fight their own Humane Society's designation when another Humane Society has publicly stated what a pit bull is and is not.

On our own we pushed the local Health and Safety commission to give us information that was not stated publicly and shared it with these organizations. On our own we made the calls to get the stats on the number of dogs Kitchener is actually killing and the percentage of mistakes the KW HS is making which a member of the DLCC said they didn't now about. We cross referenced the information testified to what was said and made sure 10 times over everything they said can be proven to be a lie and every time a foundation of proof shows a little waiver we make the calls again to get the information to make sure all of our information is 100% and we're still doing it so that if by some remote chance a media source actually comes to hear our story as promised we're givening them the information correctly and intelligently and making statements that educate people instead of misleading them.

And the only reason we've been able to do this is because of this forum running in to help people they've never seen and before even seeing a picture of a dog they never met giving us encouragement while reps from organizations were saying at the right angle Lily could look like pitbull. If it weren't for all of you the pitbull forums and the boxer forums and the many independent websites wouldn't have found us or we wouldn't have found them... We wouldn't have the energy or the hope to keep going... and we wouldn't have found a way to keep the rage at bay so we can focus and do things in the right order..

We can't thank the people in here enough for the time they're devoting to this.. who aren't ignoring our pleas for help and who are answering our emails... without all of you, it would certainly feel like its entirely hopeless...

I will never stop thanking all of you... and when BSL is done in this country I hope everybody out there won't be pointing to us or an organization or a lawyer as the people who stopped it.. we just picked up the ball when one person was too weary to fight anymore.. I hope everyone will point to Dr. Gary Goeree the man who faught for no reason to but say "This is wrong" for almost 9 years and say that was one hell of gutzy move and thank him personally for having the moxy to do the homework that people could fight with.. A man who because he knew it was wrong subjected himself to the anguishing torment of three terms of sitting on that insane appeal committee watching people's hearts break as they pleaded for their dog's lives hoping that he could convince the others not to kill another dog.. Without him, there'd be no fight to win. That man deserves the Order of Canada when this is all done.


Jen

[nymph]

Jen, my donation was to help Lily and to Lily only. I'd rather save one dog at a time.