Anyone Fined By Their Municipality ?

[HelenNutmeg]

Like many here I run the rescue out of my house and with fosters.. my municipality only allows three dogs .. I was fined last year for having two extra dogs in my place after they came into my yard then up on my deck and snapped pictures through my patio door of the dogs in my kitchen barking as they were frightened of this intruder snapping pictures.. Well the other day I was washing my hair and I heard the dogs barking wildly so I put a towel on my hair and went to look.. only to find these two people in my yard headed for my deck again.. I went and grabbed my camera so I would have evidence of this .. they paid me absolutely no mind.. as I took their picture peeping through my kitchen patio door.. yesterday I was hit with a $1400. fine for extra dogs.. now the last time I went to court the judge told me that in the bylaw I could have a dog who was licensed elsewhere here for up to 6 weeks.. these dogs were licensed.. and were going into foster on that weekend as both had just been through surgery..
Here are the pictures I took..
http://bassethoundrescuechronicles.b...ted-again.html Have any of you gone through this craziness ?

Helen
BHRQ

[Love4himies]

Don't they need a warrant to go on your property and do that .

Isn't the pretty much the same as a peeping tom? What if you were doing the deed with your partner

[3iggys]

My municipality was trying to quietly pass a bylaw that gave them the right to enter any property without notice. The bylaw also included the # of dogs allowed on a property. I have 4 dogs - will need a "kennel license" over and above the price of tags for the dogs ($500.00). That will only cover the extra dog allowed (3 is the max). If I had 5 dogs it would be $1000.00 and so on. Just a money grab. I haven't told my municipality about the dogs and my neighbors know about them HOWEVER..... in the spring there will be new neighbors down the road and who knows what will happen. Oh yes, that bylaw I am talking about - the property owners in the County (a very large county) protested and took the County officials to task. The bylaw has been put on hold for a while but rest assured it won't poke its ugly head for quite a while as we are now aware of what they are trying to do - take away our freedom & rights. I plan on moving in the summer anyway.

[Bina]

That sure looks like trespassing to me.
Next time call 911 and scream that there are strangers at your door.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Bina

That sure looks like trespassing to me.
Next time call 911 and scream that there are strangers at your door.

That's funny.

[Cathy1]

Where I live the city workers, gas companies, hydro,police, people like that are allowed to enter the property. I do not believe they should be taking pictures through the window. Usually the by-law officers only come around if someone has phoned in a complaint and if they can't get an answer at the door then they will enter the property and take pictures for proof that there is a law being broken. Our by-law states only 3 dogs per household and someone that lives a few blocks away has had 5 dogs for the past 9 yrs. but a new neighbor moved in and complained about the barking and was fined for having too many dogs and had to give up 2.

[Frenchy]

omg the nerves !! I can't believe they're allowed to do this

if only they would put that much effort to look out for abused and neglected dogs tied up in people's backyard

I should really lend you Churchill , they wouldn't dare step a foot in your backyard

[aslan]

Originally Posted by Cathy1

Where I live the city workers, gas companies, hydro,police, people like that are allowed to enter the property. .

No they are not, people just think that they are allowed. Just as the police are not allowed to just enter your home of out buildings without a warrant. Helen we have had a problem with bi-law officers and bell, and rogers, etc..We sought legal advice..put a LARGE 'no trespassing ' sign on your gate/s. Call the powers that be and inform them that their employee's are NOT allowed in your yard without coming to your front door first. This way you're covering your butt. Next time they appear at your home, if they walk into your yard call the police and have them charged with trespassing.

[erykah1310]

Originally Posted by Cathy1

Where I live the city workers, gas companies, hydro,police, people like that are allowed to enter the property. I do not believe they should be taking pictures through the window.

Being a Hydro employee in Ontario and being allowed on any property that has hydro because of our property allowances I can assure you we are NOT allowed to take pictures of anything, even with the home owners consent.
I took a picture of a very pretty black dog with bright blue eyes with the owners consent and got in SOOO much crap from my supervisor, she called the customer to see if my story had matched up.
the only things we are allowed to photograph on peoples property is meters, lines, poles ect. Things related to the company.

I would be so freaked out having people just walk on my property like that and snapping pics.
Could you put a lock on the gate to keep them out?

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by HelenNutmeg

.. now the last time I went to court the judge told me that in the bylaw I could have a dog who was licensed elsewhere here for up to 6 weeks.

Do you have any papers documenting what the judge told you? If so, bring them along (as well as a copy of the bylaw where this article is mentioned) when you contest the fine. If you've been given permission, then I don't see what the city's trying to accomplish .


As for them coming onto your property and looking through your patio door, omg, I would have freaked. I can't understand how that's legal without a warrant of some kind and without the presence of the police.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by HelenNutmeg

now the last time I went to court the judge told me that in the bylaw I could have a dog who was licensed elsewhere here for up to 6 weeks.. these dogs were licensed.. and were going into foster on that weekend as both had just been through surgery..
Helen
BHRQ

this is what i read, i don't see where she got a fine, i did see her mention the other woman later on in the thread.

[Kay9]

Where I live, it's my understanding that people who have rescue animals are exempt for those laws. Do they know you have rescues?

[Golden Girls]

Originally Posted by Kay9

Where I live, it's my understanding that people who have rescue animals are exempt for those laws. Do they know you have rescues?

It's important to realize that every province has their own by-laws. In the Montreal area they refuse to recognize rescues therefore we can only keep in our home the max pets by your muticipality. Anything over your limit you must have a kennel license but you cannot get one if you live in a residencial area because of zoning laws. Many still do but once your targeted they'll continue to harrass you. People I know have had to move.

Sophie Adoptions aka Lil'RickyMom another Montreal rescuer had a really hard time a few years ago with her animal control officer and kept getting ticket and ticket. I think she fought them in court, not sure the outcome

[shibamom]

How frustrating Helen.

Just to clarify a few things according to the CCC (Canada Criminal Code)

It is not illegal to enter someone's property without the intent to commit an indictable offence - whether or not the photography counts, I really couldn't say because I haven't dealt with that one before.

I could come onto the property of anyone here and build myself a little shanty shed in order to keep warm (although that is likely a bylaw infraction)~ it isn't an offense until I refuse to leave. It is an offense to refuse to leave someone's property when asked.

The whole "need a warrant" to enter a property is a very complex issue and not really applicable to walking onto property (photographing INSIDE a residence is diff). Police (and fire, ambulance) absolutely do NOT need a warrant to enter a property, dwelling, etc in many circumstances (ranging from 911 calls from a landline,etc) - BUT this rarely applies to municipal workers (the whole theory is that it is an imminent danger to someone's life)

Anyways, what I am trying to say is that if this happens, you need to contact the police to clarify this issue in regards to criminal offense and bylaws.

[HelenNutmeg]

You know I wish I knew as much about legal ease as I know about bassets and animals.. I was really hoping someone once either reading or hearing me dilemma might offer some legal advice.. I'm waiting still for the " formal " letter and fine for the $1200.00 dog fines and the $200.00 fine for illegal use of my home.. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[shibamom]

Originally Posted by HelenNutmeg

You know I wish I knew as much about legal ease as I know about bassets and animals.. I was really hoping someone once either reading or hearing me dilemma might offer some legal advice.. I'm waiting still for the " formal " letter and fine for the $1200.00 dog fines and the $200.00 fine for illegal use of my home.. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Hi Helen,

While it is not illegal to enter someone's property without the intent to commit an offense (the offense would be refusal to leave), I'm 99.9999% positive that the photography would constitute something - what that is, I'm not sure. In this instance, I would ask my supervising officer for advice. You can call your local police department/RCMP detachment and speak with either the dispatcher or even the watch commander (supervising officer) and they can tell you. The dispatcher will probably ask the watch commander anyways, I've never faced that question in 5 years!

Give it a shot...

[HelenNutmeg]

Okay Thanks.. I will.. and let you know..

[kiara]

I think that city officials in Quebec should start chasing after those who abandon animals all over this province, all year long, not good people that are helping them!!! I am a cat rescuer and already all the shelters and S.P.C.A are full and our "PROVINCIAL MOVING DAY (july1-st) AND DUMP YOUR PET ON THE STREET DAY IS COMING", this behavior is a total disgrace and people are getting away with it, because in Quebec there are no laws to protect animals !!! Please give generously to your local rescue or shelter and if you have time---- foster.

[MTG]

Hi helen
My name is maria and i just move to montreal to reunite with my dauther after 16 years of separation, i am a former immigrant , so please don't mind my broken english
I was living in St.John's Newfoundland for 16 years, and i Have 3 ****-tzus for 7 years two of them i had since they was baby the third one i rescue since last year.
I am scary to loose my dogs , i spend all my savings to reunite with my dauther. i rent one apt here in montreal and the land lord toll my dauther that was ok have 3 dogs but he never wrote it so , i cannot live in the apt, i try to sublet it,but the real problem is that i am hiding myself and my 3 dogs in my dauther building wich you are not suppose to have them, now i am living like "Anne Frank;"
i have to walk with my dogs 5 :30 in morning and cannot leave the building until the next morning, it's a very bad situation once i never kill or still or even be a prisoner, i am free citizen, vote , organ donor, help SPCA in st.john's, ASPC< and Toronto human society. i cannot continous put more stress im myself and my dogs, and i cannot even foster , that's is amazing, if I will tell that to "Fidel Castro" he will laught on me, because i never hear that someone can dictate how many dogs you can have, if i can afford so be, who cares, if i was negligent fine, but my dogs are my life! it's simples that.
so, when i read you comments i decide to ask for help, because i do not know nobody here in montreal, and wich town here allow you have at least 3 dogs?
please , say something because i am in despair
i cannot came back to newfoundland, as i say i spend all my savings and lost my job as well, everthing to be with my dauther and my dogs as a family.
thank you so much
maria

[BenMax]

Hi Maria,

I aswell have 3 dogs and 6 cats and our municipality DICTATES that I can only have 2 animals. I do not however hide my dogs as I own my own condo so I am in a better position. However, if someone where to snitch on me, I would be in very big trouble.

You will have to check the municipalities to find out how many animals you are allowed to have. Also, when renting, it's best to be honest about your situation. What I have done in the past when renting, was to make an appointment with the landlord, I brought my rottie with me, and when they saw how sweet he was, they allowed him in the rental.

I wish I had more to give you, but the only way to know is to ask.

You are in a tough spot for sure. I hope you find quick employment and enjoy your stay here in Montreal.

[HelenNutmeg]

Yes good luck Maria..
My fines of $4200.00 came in yesterday.. I'm just beside myself..

[HelenNutmeg]

Maria.. I don't know where you are but check communities in the West Island.. Pointe Claire.. Sommervale Gardens on Saint Jeans allows dogs..
Off island Hudson.. or Saint Lazare allow 3 + dogs..

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by HelenNutmeg

Yes good luck Maria..
My fines of $4200.00 came in yesterday.. I'm just beside myself..

Are you kidding? How the heck do they justify 4200$ fine? That is absolutely ridiculous!

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by HelenNutmeg

Yes good luck Maria..
My fines of $4200.00 came in yesterday.. I'm just beside myself..

Originally Posted by BenMax

Are you kidding? How the heck do they justify 4200$ fine? That is absolutely ridiculous!

holy crap $4200.00 ? Animal abusers don't get fine 1/10 of that !! WTF ??? How did they come up with that amount ?

[MTG]

i am in montreal NDG, and I just lost my job so I move to Montreal to be with all my family, I will try to be honest with the landlord , like Benmax say, but i definetly look to be where i can have my dogs and foster others, and help the community , and i hope i can found a job , wherever i go
I would like to keep in touch with you guys because i will be a great help,
right now i am in a big turmoil, i have to wait to sublet the apt that i am paying and cannot live in there after i get that done i will move on, thanks for your guide and keep in touch, i do not know how to drive in montreal yet, that my first time here, and i can help driving dogs to foster homes, i can help in any way, but only when i got my place because now i am hiding me and the dogs so they cannot barking, it's a very difficult situation but i am not give up! take care!

[MTG]

helen..those communities West island, point claire and sait lazare they are all french spoken? do we have SPCA down there? i definetly will check it out, thanks a lot, ops!! before i forget i read somewhere here that if you want have more dogs you should register yourself as you have a kennel? that's true?
good luck my friend and I think we should open a kennel , really!!! that's the only way to help, in this province, count on my vote to change those ridiculos laws

[MTG]

You know what ,guys!?! montreal law need some smack, we are all canadians, pay tax, resposible, we should do some kind of moviment to attract peoples attention and change that! it's not fear to who want help any kind of animals paying fees? oh come on!!! we look like living in the "settle" times, come on!! something has to be done - the voice does the work and raise the bar! it's simples that! by the way i lost my job because some of montreal law,s , I had a good job and ask for transfer and everthing was great , my supervisor say that my transfer was done, just move out! then when i move here and introduce myself to the new provider, guess what?, nothing was accept by them, so anyway it's a long history and iam not worrie no more, almost died!lost a job in a blink of eyes, but right now, my dogs are my priority and concern, so here i am to fight for whatever need to be change, count on me!
Maria