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  #31  
Old September 15th, 2010, 08:39 AM
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FYI If you know someone with a Costco membership if they buy you a gift card you do not need a membership to use it
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  #32  
Old September 15th, 2010, 08:41 AM
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Mastifflover...now that is interesting! way better than trying to convince someone to pick it up for you!
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  #33  
Old September 15th, 2010, 08:42 AM
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She has about elevently-million

I think memberships are free?
Not where I live, it's like 70 bucks a year or something like that.
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  #34  
Old September 15th, 2010, 08:42 AM
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FYI If you know someone with a Costco membership if they buy you a gift card you do not need a membership to use it
I didn't know that - thanks for the tip!
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  #35  
Old September 15th, 2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
She has about elevently-million

I think memberships are free?

Membership at Costco cost either $50, $55, or $100 for a year. Depending on the level and what you want. The $100 a year gets you a 2% rebate which you can apply to your next year's membership. Sorry to sound like a recording for Costco but there it is.......
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  #36  
Old September 15th, 2010, 08:47 AM
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Not where I live, it's like 70 bucks a year or something like that.
you can get a friend to go halves with you on the membership and just say you live at the same address..works out to $25 each a year,,and there are some really good deals for you and your household too..

totally forgot about the kirkland foods,,yup yup so there is your cheaper alternative.
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  #37  
Old September 15th, 2010, 08:47 AM
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Not where I live, it's like 70 bucks a year or something like that.
Don't know where you live, but in Ontario it is $55.00 annually for the basic membership which I more than cover with decreased prescription dispensing fees and kitty litter alone.
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  #38  
Old September 15th, 2010, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by driver8 View Post

So basically there IS no alternative on the shelves, is that what people here are saying?
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Like I said, I guess there IS no alternative.
You know what driver8 ? If you had taken the time to do research here , you would have find those infos. We have talked about it many times in the food forums , you thread is not innovating anything. but I guess research is not your forte.

So yes , $14.99 for a 20 lbs of cat kibble at Costco. But there's another thing you don't seem to have any ideas about ... cats shouldn't be fed only kibble. They need wet food into their diets (if you need to know why , research on the food forums and everything is explained there) so like 14+ mentioned , there's some Fancy feast flavors that don't have any by-product. And like LuckyPenny tried to explain to you , if you look for chicken and beef on special to make your own raw diet , even better and cheaper.
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  #39  
Old September 15th, 2010, 09:54 AM
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You know what driver8 ? If you had taken the time to do research here , you would have find those infos. We have talked about it many times in the food forums , you thread is not innovating anything. but I guess research is not your forte.

So yes , $14.99 for a 20 lbs of cat kibble at Costco. But there's another thing you don't seem to have any ideas about ... cats shouldn't be fed only kibble. They need wet food into their diets (if you need to know why , research on the food forums and everything is explained there) so like 14+ mentioned , there's some Fancy feast flavors that don't have any by-product. And like LuckyPenny tried to explain to you , if you look for chicken and beef on special to make your own raw diet , even better and cheaper.
Yes, I see that. Thanks.
I've had the diet/kibble thing explained to me a few times now....

Why do you guys think so many people use IAMS, etc if they are so bad and there is better alternatives??
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  #40  
Old September 15th, 2010, 09:58 AM
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Yes, I see that. Thanks.
I've had the diet/kibble thing explained to me a few times now....

Why do you guys think so many people use IAMS, etc if they are so bad and there is better alternatives??
because the average person doesn't research animal nutrition or what is in the pet products,,they believe what they see on tv. If a pet food manufacturer actually advertised what is in their foods how many people do you think would buy the product.
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  #41  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:07 AM
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Honestly, I feel bad for the average pet owner. Don't trust the vets, they're in bed with the companies. Vets don't know much about pet food anyway. (how would it be if I were to tell people not to trust their doctor all the time - health care would be a mess!) Don't trust the shelter you got the pet from, they're in bed with them too. It's "common sense" to not trust the guy at the store, who (of course) is trying to sell you his products.

How are people supposed to know?

Most people I know will trust their vets (their pet's doctor!).
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  #42  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
Honestly, I feel bad for the average pet owner. Don't trust the vets, they're in bed with the companies. Vets don't know much about pet food anyway. (how would it be if I were to tell people not to trust their doctor all the time - health care would be a mess!) Don't trust the shelter you got the pet from, they're in bed with them too. It's "common sense" to not trust the guy at the store, who (of course) is trying to sell you his products.

How are people supposed to know?

Most people I know will trust their vets (their pet's doctor!).
I trust my vet with the most important things in my life....my pets!! I do not however accept the "prescription" food her office sells. When discussing the ingredients, and alternatives....making my own, adding fibre/supplements to my currently used diets etc. she does not say use mine or your pets are in trouble. She appreciates that many of the prescription diets sold in her office have CORN or a derivitive of such as a first ingredient and accepts my decision NOT to use them, but to allow me to invest more time where needed to provide a healthier option.
There is however, a large number of clients who insist that if the diet comes from the vet and is prescription, and costs more...it must be better. It is these folks, the ones who believe without research, that the prescription diets are on the shelves for.
Bottom line, feed your aninals what you want. It is your decision and we are not going to persuade you to do otherwise. You have your ideas, we, as individuals also have ours...we are not a group mind, but separate and what we decide to do for our pets, may not be right for you.
By the way...Petsmart had a large supply of IAMS, should you need it.
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  #43  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by driver8 View Post

Why do you guys think so many people use IAMS, etc if they are so bad and there is better alternatives??
I think a lot of it boils down to accessibility and advertising. The brands I would trust with my own animals...I've yet to see a single ad anywhere for any of them. Their popularity increases almost exclusively by word of mouth. Plus, many of those brands are only found in smaller pet stores (Barry's is a good one, and Pet Value is increasingly offering really good stuff); you never find them at the big box pet stores and never in grocery stores.

I think many people just want to be able to just grab a few cans of food for their cat while they're grocery shopping for themselves...it's about convenience. Also, most never stop to think about what's in the food, and if they did, they likely wouldn't have the tools/knowledge required to correctly interpret the labels. That comes with a fair bit of reading and research, and it takes time. I know I've invested many, many hours into learning about my pets' food...probably more so than for what I eat!

I know not to be lulled into a false sense of security by words like "veterinary approved" on the label, or pretty pictures of fresh meat and veggies on the package...NOW...but I used to. Now I make what I consider to be educated decisions for my pets about their nutrition.

I do trust my vets for most aspects of my animals' medical care, but not very often the nutrition aspect. Many of them are simply repeating what they've been told about certain products (food and otherwise) by the manufacturers. If you look up the research yourself (often difficult to find) you can learn an awful lot about what many of the claims are based on, and I have to say it's pretty shaky stuff sometimes. To top it off, the research can be very difficult for the layperson to interpret (another reason why many people just take the claims at face value). I have a science/biology background and I still have to slog through material that I consider challenging. That said, most of our vets respect our decision to feed a raw diet; it's never been an issue for our pets' medical team.
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  #44  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
Yes, I see that. Thanks.
I've had the diet/kibble thing explained to me a few times now....

Why do you guys think so many people use IAMS, etc if they are so bad and there is better alternatives??
Because many people do not do research into canine or feline nutrition and do not understand that IAMS and the like are not good quality food. Plain and simple. Which is why we strive to educate people on here. Many people believe that to feed their pets a higher quality diet will be too much for them to afford and are not aware that it can be done for almost as cheap, if not cheaper, than a garbage food. You can't look at the cost based on bag, can etc. it's not that cut and dry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
Honestly, I feel bad for the average pet owner. Don't trust the vets, they're in bed with the companies. Vets don't know much about pet food anyway. (how would it be if I were to tell people not to trust their doctor all the time - health care would be a mess!) Don't trust the shelter you got the pet from, they're in bed with them too. It's "common sense" to not trust the guy at the store, who (of course) is trying to sell you his products.

How are people supposed to know?

Most people I know will trust their vets (their pet's doctor!).
Yes, unfortunately most people do trust their vets believing that they are the god of all things animal. They know plenty, but unfortunately most vets do not receive alot of information of nutrition in vet school, and what they do learn is funded by some of the major pet food companies, kind of bias don't you think? Vets also receive a portion of the pet food sales sold in their clinic, so their opinion on nutrition is slightly jaded. But there are some vets out there who are becoming more knowledgeable on the topic.

Shelters are not always "in bed" with the pet food companies. Sometimes they are sponsored by a specific company, sometimes they just feed whatever is donated. They can't be picky.

Again, important to do your research!! That way, when you go to the vet, the pet store, etc. and they try to sell you a garbage food you can explain why you would not feed that food to your pet.
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  #45  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Any other brands people recommend?? Besides the most expensive?
Wellness is not the most expensive. I pay up to $3 for a 5.5 oz can of Nature's Variety Instinct and $2 for a tiny can of Almo.
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  #46  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Seeing as this thread was started to "educate" people about cheaper foods for their pets and to have it under one posting please let me add something.

If I were feeding only one or two cats I would be feeding them the best I could afford. That would be Wellness or other grain free, by product free food. Or I would be doing the best I could to switch them to raw which is the optimum cat diet. I don't only feed one or two. Because of that I have taken the time to do my research and know what to look for.

When looking at cheaper foods try to avoid the gravy ones as they are the ones most likely to contain wheat gluten, the major cause of the last food recall. Read labels and as much as you can avoid grains, corn, and by products. If a main ingredient is questionable; IE: "meat" gravy; avoid it. How do you know what meat it is? What animal did it come from?

The most important thing is if you are going to feed a dry food only diet you are going to have an unhealthy cat in the future. Please use canned food and supplement with dry if needed. If you are only feeding one or two cats I don't know why the "if needed" would be there. Never ever add water to a dry food. Molds start to grow within 20 minutes of the food being wet. You can add extra water to canned foods to make sure your cat is getting the fluids it needs.

Most of us want what is best for our pets or we wouldn't have joined a pet site. Unfortunately the "average Joe" may love his pet but does not take the time to do research. Joe believes the advertisements with the cute kittens, roly poly puppies, and dogs that have been starved before doing a commercial and therefore will eat just about anything put in front of them. JMO
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  #47  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:34 AM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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The very first person who tried to shame me about food was a vet.
"You're not actually using food from a grocery store are you??!!" (Aghast).
Then tried to sell me prescription diet.

Here's the message I want you guys to hear about that encounter.
I never went back.


How do pet owners tell the difference between that alternative pushed at me and the ones suggested here. That day I felt like I must be a rotten mommy. But you tell me that if I had followed what the doctor said, I'd be doing just as bad for my pet. It's a huge conundrum, and some understanding of that is important. You want people to believe what you say, your education. But why should they when it comes at them from so many directions.


I choose to go to vets that are tolerant and accepting of my choices. Period. I choose to accept advice from people who don't make me feel like a bad person for what I've done for years.

I have a science and medical background too and I have a hard time with understanding some of the claims on various websites people have posted on here....
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  #48  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:38 AM
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I have a science and medical background too and I have a hard time with understanding some of the claims on various websites people have posted on here....
Then post the questions you have in a new thread seeing as this one is supposed to be educating people on cheaper foods. I'm quite sure you will have many many answers for your questions.
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  #49  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Seeing as this thread was started to "educate" people about cheaper foods for their pets and to have it under one posting please let me add something.

If I were feeding only one or two cats I would be feeding them the best I could afford. That would be Wellness or other grain free, by product free food. Or I would be doing the best I could to switch them to raw which is the optimum cat diet. I don't only feed one or two. Because of that I have taken the time to do my research and know what to look for.

When looking at cheaper foods try to avoid the gravy ones as they are the ones most likely to contain wheat gluten, the major cause of the last food recall. Read labels and as much as you can avoid grains, corn, and by products. If a main ingredient is questionable; IE: "meat" gravy; avoid it. How do you know what meat it is? What animal did it come from?

The most important thing is if you are going to feed a dry food only diet you are going to have an unhealthy cat in the future. Please use canned food and supplement with dry if needed. If you are only feeding one or two cats I don't know why the "if needed" would be there. Never ever add water to a dry food. Molds start to grow within 20 minutes of the food being wet. You can add extra water to canned foods to make sure your cat is getting the fluids it needs.

Most of us want what is best for our pets or we wouldn't have joined a pet site. Unfortunately the "average Joe" may love his pet but does not take the time to do research. Joe believes the advertisements with the cute kittens, roly poly puppies, and dogs that have been starved before doing a commercial and therefore will eat just about anything put in front of them. JMO
Very good information.


My cats eat both wet and dry, when kibbles get water on them they are gross.
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  #50  
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:40 AM
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I applaud you for not being bullied by your old vet. I've worked in a clinic myself, and I am ashamed to say I've used similar lines on clients "OH MY GOD THAT"S CRAP FOOD YOU'RE KILLING YOUR CAT!" Ok, maybe not that bad, but still. And why? Because I heard what the vets told me...and those vets were simply passing on information from the pet food reps that supplied our clinic. It SOUNDED good.

When it comes to cats, I think there's one extraordinarily simple concept that most people can understand, and if you let it guide your research and your food choices, you can't go wrong. It's this: cats are obligate carnivores. Period. Their digestive system, their dentition, heck even the facial musculature...it all indicates a strictly carnivorous diet. Going against that basic biological fact simply cannot be good for the animal.
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  #51  
Old September 15th, 2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
Brand name: Chicken

Where to buy it: Grocery store/butcher

How much it costs: 6-7$ (cheaper if it's on sale)

Lasts approximately 1 week per cat = <1$ per day.

Pick up a whole chicken, extra hearts, giblets, and liver. Grind it all up when you get home, add a pinch of salt and an egg yolk or two. Voila, natural, healthy, and very cost efficient.
The perfect food .
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  #52  
Old September 15th, 2010, 11:22 AM
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I have a science and medical background too and I have a hard time with understanding some of the claims on various websites people have posted on here....

It also boils down to common sense, reading the labels and asking the question "Does this make sense?"

Should carnivores eat corn, wheat, barley?

Why doesn't the manufacturer list the specific meat?

Should pets not eat FRESH food, rather than processed? What is better for humans?

Should a diet consist of constant dry food with a very inefficient way to take in water? Pets don't have cups to gulp down liquid, only their tongues. How would we feel if we ate crackers all day, then tried to lick up water with our tongues? Probably chronically thirsty. How does nature intend them to get water? With there food, of course, so kibble diet just doesn't make sense.
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  #53  
Old September 15th, 2010, 09:35 PM
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I got a PM suggesting Special Kitty that is sold at wal-mart, there is a type that doesn't have by-products. Around $.053 per can, feeding 1.5 cans per day. I'll take a look next time I'm there.
Just a word on that. Someone earlier this year did a thread about this food. Because Special Kitty has been involved with so many recalls I said I would not try it for my cats. At that time the WM I went to did not carry this new line of food. When they got it in I tried it to see what the cats thought. The ingredient list seemed ok except for the "meat" gravy I think it said. I bought numerous cans of this food. Over time the cats showed no interest in eating it. I noticed one thing that was rather disturbing about it. If it sat out for a while (1 - 2 hours) the gravy congealed and got a white scum over it. It also smelled pretty nasty once this happened. That was enough to turn me off buying it.
WM also has a line of raw. For my money what they have available for cats is way too overpriced and filled with too many things cats don't want.
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  #54  
Old October 24th, 2010, 03:04 PM
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I know this is an old thread but I just logged on and clicked "who's online" and noticed someone was reading this thread so clicked on it as it was one that I totally missed before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post

How do pet owners tell the difference between that alternative pushed at me and the ones suggested here. That day I felt like I must be a rotten mommy. But you tell me that if I had followed what the doctor said, I'd be doing just as bad for my pet. It's a huge conundrum, and some understanding of that is important. You want people to believe what you say, your education. But why should they when it comes at them from so many directions.


I choose to go to vets that are tolerant and accepting of my choices. Period. I choose to accept advice from people who don't make me feel like a bad person for what I've done for years.

I have a science and medical background too and I have a hard time with understanding some of the claims on various websites people have posted on here....
You asked why should you believe the people here who have replied to your thread. Well, it's because the people here have taken the time to do their research.

And, if you did check out the website www.catinfo.org that has been given to you, then you should have noticed that it is written by a veterinarian.

Also, here is another website that explains how to read cat food labels ....

http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/reading_labels.htm

Please check out all the other links on it as well as there is lots more valuable information available there.
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  #55  
Old October 24th, 2010, 06:54 PM
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When I read your question at the beginning of the thread, here I thought you wanted information because you wanted to find something of good quality for not too much money. And after reading I realized you don't seem to be interested at all in anything other than trying to "catch" others in some sort of trap that in your mind the only winner can be Iams.
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  #56  
Old October 24th, 2010, 08:59 PM
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lUvMyLaB<3 lUvMyLaB<3 is offline
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I just want to comment... Driver8 we are in a similar neck of the woods so I want to say that foods like evo, and wellness are very easily accessable here. If you do the math, and buy large cans of wellness you will see that feeding your pets works out to less than I spend on coffee, I suppose it boils down to priorities. I have 3 cats and usually anywhere from 1 to 8 fosters at a time, I feed canned food, and some raw, I can easily cut out one restaurant meal, or take out meal, or another luxery in order to cover the differencve in food price. Sure feeding grocery store kibble may seem cheaper, but in the end it really isn't.

If someone doesn't know anything about feeding their animals and buys iams, they are not a bad pet mommy. They are someone that obviously doesn't have the same priorities as others and reaserch everything before they do it to their pets. When people know better, and choose cheap store brand kibble because it is cheap, they still are not a bad person, but again don't have the same priorities. My animals are everything to me, and I cannot justify trying to save $20 a month on food for my pets, but go and buy myself a fast food meal or some other extravegence. But that's me.

Also iams is expensive, you can buy better foods for the same price. If you look at the ingredients on the $30 bag of iams and compare to the $8 store brand they are the same.

Also imo, I would rather someone feed their cats friskies canned, then expensive grain free dry... So many issues in cats come from kibble.

Also want to add that your human doctor also doesn't know that much about nutrition, they know what healthy food are ect like we all do, but ask them what brand of ice cram is better, ect, they will refer you to a dietician, someone that is educated in nutrition, because for some reason in our continent drs are all about fixing a problem once it is there and are educated very little in what foods can prevent illness in the first place, but some research or a dietician can help you to learn.

If a parent feeds their child junk and they get health issues are they a bad parent? If they honestly didn't know better? Its the same thing. If someone can only afford $3 for a week of pet food, can they afford everything else a pet will need? If they choose to buy cheap food but really could do some $$ saving and be able to afford something a bit better, I'm not sure their priorities are in the right place but that is imo.


Shelters and what they feed really have no place in this conversation as they do what they can, and it isn't for the life of an animal.

And iams is wayy over priced for what you get. Vet foods aren't any better. Learn to read a pet food label driver8, and go from there, its amazing what you can learn from some of the amazing miracle workers on here if you choose to opem up and listen instead of being so defensive and refusing to put your guard down, just try it.

Please excuse my errors as I only have this cell phone to use the internet at the moment lol
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  #57  
Old October 24th, 2010, 10:45 PM
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Myka Myka is offline
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driver8, I find these forums very closed-minded often. Like we are all rich people able to give our pets the best. I personally don't own a pet that I can't afford to give the best to, but on the other hand I understand that there are kitties and dogs (and other animals) dying in shelters everyday because there aren't enough people that want to or can afford to care for these animals. I believe if we asked the kitties they would prefer a less than ideal diet over euthanasia, but hey what do I know?

Once I am working back in province I would like to regularly donate canned kitty food to either a shelter or rescue since there are so many kitties in need. From what I understand any canned food is better than dry food. I can either buy a small amount of premium food or a larger amount of "acceptable" food. I believe I can help more kitties by choosing "acceptable" foods...?

How about these foods. This is from Tracie Hotchner from Cat Chat on Martha Stewart Radio (satellite radio). I listen to her show all the time, and she strongly advocates kitty nutrition, and all canned diets. I would copy and paste, but it is in PDF, and I don't seem to be able to do so.

Cat Chat Approved Foods

Cat Chat Supermarket Brands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracie Hotchner
There are an impressive number of websites devoted to educating people about good nutritional health and practices for their cats. They are full of product suggestions and other specific advice for managing cats who are well and those who aren't. Dr Lisa Pierson is a vet renowned for her championing of feline nutrition with her website www.catinfo.org. Another excellent site is www.catnutrition.org. These two and other sites can be accessed through www.felineoutreach.com, a new not-for-profit group dedicated to educating cat caregivers and providing them with assistance.
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  #58  
Old October 25th, 2010, 08:29 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myka View Post
driver8, I find these forums very closed-minded often. Like we are all rich people able to give our pets the best.
What???? We are not all rich and far from it. A quality canned only costs about $2.5 a day, 17 bucks a week or $68 per month, some people feel they are responsible for their pets and should feed them the best they can. $68 dollars is really not very much. If a person bought the large cans of Wellness, you are looking at about $1.70 per day or only $34 a month. Geesh, isn't a cat's health worth it?

If a person doesn't have the money for quality canned, I understand, that is why I make my own home made raw for about .50 for 5.5 oz can. which translates into $3.5 per week, 14 bucks a month. And a properly prepared raw diet is like us eating our fresh fruits and veggies. It is much better for them. If I didn't make raw, it would cost me almost 100 bucks a week to feed four cats (I do buy NV Instinct which is more expensive then Wellness and mix 50% raw, 50% canned).

However, I do not feel raw is feasible in a shelter setting .
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  #59  
Old October 25th, 2010, 08:45 AM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Originally Posted by Myka View Post
How about these foods. This is from Tracie Hotchner from Cat Chat on Martha Stewart Radio (satellite radio). I listen to her show all the time, and she strongly advocates kitty nutrition, and all canned diets.
Great link to support what our members have been suggesting regarding feline nutrition. Tracie Hotchner recommends some of the same foods and the same site, catinfo.org, that the members here have offered as recommendations .
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  #60  
Old October 25th, 2010, 08:55 AM
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ancientgirl ancientgirl is offline
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I'm slightly annoyed that just because someone buys the best quality food they can for their pet is considered perhaps close minded or so rich price doesn't matter.

I'm far from rich. I buy my gang Precise at about $2.25 a can. That's a lot when you have to feed 5 cats twice a day. Add to that the fact Oksana was constantly getting cystitis, so I broke down and bought a food that is strictly for urinary issues. Yes, I could buy food that is less expensive, and I have found several that are good quality and a few pennies less, but I would rather they eat well and be healthy. So I cut back on some of my entertainment. I bargain shop for my own food and necessities.

When I can't afford their Precise one week, I get them something less expensive until I can afford their usual.

Many people sacrifice so they can give their pets the best they can. That's not to say if you give your pet a cheaper food you aren't a good pet owner. Nobody knows the other person's situation so one should not assume anything.
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