k9 cops, those magnificent beasts

[BigDogLover]

K9 dogs, those intriguing creatures that, sniff out bombs, drugs, locate children, protect and serve, and so much more, have always amazed me. How do they do it?

It was suggested that, Rescue dogs could be used as K9 cops, is there truth to this? Many dogs that end up in rescues/shelters have suffered a trauma of some sorts, whether it be beatings, isolation, or just simple rejection of their owner, they have suffered a traumatic experience. Traumatic experiences can lead to severe psychological issues in a dog. Much like humans who can suffer 'trauma related amnesia', dogs too, can suffer the very same affliction. I've heard repeatedly that, dogs have no memory, I disagree with this to some extent. Dogs remember through instinct, they do have memory, it just manifests itself in the animals 'instinct for survival'. A dog that is severely beaten will, most likely, end up 'hand shy'. These dogs can be retrained, but their underlying psychological afflictions will remain, even if it's in the 'back of it's mind', rendering the dog a 'smoking gun'.

What makes a good K9/protection dogs? What temperament do they require? What age does training begin? Does training a dog for protection make some of these larger breed dogs more stable? These are just a few questions I would like to discuss.

Dar.

[twodogsandacat]

These dogs can be retrained, but their underlying psychological afflictions will remain, even if it's in the 'back of it's mind', rendering the dog a 'smoking gun'.
Yes but sometimes the most abused dogs are suited well for other tasks (although not attack work - imagine the lawsuits). That DOES include pit bulls. A dog that our government wants to ban instead of the behavior of those that abuse these dogs.

Popsicle:
During an arrest two years ago, Buffalo policeman Ron Clark, Jr. opened an abandoned freezer on a known drug dealer's back porch and found a bulging black garbage bag. "I poked my flashlight at it," he recalls, "and it started moving. My worst fear was that it was a baby."
In fact, it was a puppy, a pit bull who would be known as Popsicle and -- in a lovely ironic twist-- would gain fame for sniffing out the kind of bad guy that nearly killed him.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petb.../popsicle.html

Dakota:
A top rated Search and Rescue dog saved from dog fighters.


More Here:
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Her...oicPitties.htm

Memory: Gorilla's do. Coco remembers her parents murder and her capture and can tell the story. I caught Animal Planet when I was in the states last week and this was an amazing tale of a Gorilla taught to speak using hand singles. How she puts those signals together makes it a language.

[mona_b]

Well my brother has been a K9 cop for 24 years now.And this is something I do know about.And being on the force I deal with the K9 Unit.

Their training starts at 18 months.My GSD Tron is a retired Police Dog.He was my brothers partner..I started his basic training when I got him at 12 weeks.His commands where taught in German.Thank got my mom lived in Germany for 10 years.She helped with the words. ..I had to get Tron used to everyone and everything.And all sorts of noises.That included fireworks,and loud noises.Once he turned 18 months,my brother took him.Yes it was hard.But I still got to see him.I still had my other GSD Yukon.

Then he started SchH.There are 3 parts to this.Obedience,Tracking and Protection.The must pass each stage.The final stage to get SchH III is the protection.

These dogs come from reputable breeders.These breeders dogs are titled with SchH III.Both sire and dam have been health and genetic tested,and x-rayed.And temperment tested.The pups are handled alot.Sire is usually imported from Europe.

These dogs must NOT show any aggression what so ever.They are trained not to attack,but to "hold"

Here are a few pics of my babies.I lost my Yukon in Sept.

Tron is the one sitting.

Forgot to mention...SchH I starts at 18 months,SchH II 19 months and SchH III 20 months.

[mona_b]

here is another one.

[BigDogLover]

Sorry to hear about Yukon, they are nice looking Sheps. Mona, Thank you for the info, These dogs are incredible. I've read up on some differences between the French ring and Schutzhund, which do you believe to be the better training? Could my Doberman go through a similar training?

Twodogs and the cat,

That is the coolest story I've ever read on animals. Thanks for the read.


Dar.

[mona_b]

Thank you..I do still miss him. :sad:

I have also done research on the both.To be honest,I still like the SchH.There is alot more to the French Ring.

Could your Dobe do it?Sure.But you need to remember that he has to pass the Obedience.How old is he/she?How are the basic commands?Sit,stay,down,heel,leave it and so on.How old is your Dobe?

I never did obedience with any of my dogs.I did all the training.

[BigDogLover]

Originally Posted by mona_b

Thank you..I do still miss him. :sad:

I have also done research on the both.To be honest,I still like the SchH.There is alot more to the French Ring.

Could your Dobe do it?Sure.But you need to remember that he has to pass the Obedience.How old is he/she?How are the basic commands?Sit,stay,down,heel,leave it and so on.How old is your Dobe?

I never did obedience with any of my dogs.I did all the training.

*sigh* He's only 3 weeks old, we haven't gotten him yet. I will get back to you on this though.

[mona_b]

Awwwwwwww 3 weeks old.Bet you can't wait to get him home?

Please do get back to me..

[twodogsandacat]

I understand that but it is still true that rescued dogs that have shown the required drive have exceeded when given the oppotunity and are working today in law enforcement.

Many forces do it exactly as you say they do while others with more cash available such as the RCMP run thier own breeding program (and sell off those not suited). Others buy them, our regional police have trained dogs for other forces (Shepherd of course). Still the question was can rescued dogs perform these tasks and the answer is yes. They can be used for some of the roles although I have yet to hear of one that has trained as an attack dog probably due to the reasons you have stated - temperment. Many rescue dogs performing these tasks may not work closely with the public and a proven temperment may not be as necessary as in cases when the dog is working off leash.

For scent work many dogs have been shown to out perform the GSD but I'm sure that the GSD will remian the dog of choice when a dog is 'raised' for the role. Also it is the ideal all around utility dog. As a breed they can't be beat but there may be an 'under dog' that will put them to shame in a particular role just as there is always a faster gun. This is why beagles and pits are used to sniff out drugs - they exceeded when given the chance and they performed better than other candidates. It happens. Do I expect to see cop cars outside the shelters now - no. Somebody took a chance and they won but I'm sure there are also a lot of failures.

Now if you need a dog to track cookies - I've got a pointer you should see.

[LL1]

You're right.It happens all over the world.Temperament is not an issue with many forces,they will turn down dogs that are not "aggressive" enough.Many K9s the public are not able to approach.The dogs are on duty,and not supposed to be approached.These are working dogs not lap dogs.Smaller and cash strapped forces will train their own,get a rescue or shelter dog,or get from a local breeder.Serious established k9 units get them from New York,they are imported from the Czech Republic.

Sheps have not cornered the market as you said,I have a rescue update on some rescued Pits, Labs and Beagles that have been trained and worked in many, many areas across the US.Warms your heart to think of what rescues can do,when someone has a little faith and wants to help dogs in need.

Originally Posted by twodogsandacat

Others buy them, our regional police have trained dogs for other forces (Shepherd of course). Still the question was can rescued dogs perform these tasks and the answer is yes. They can be used for some of the roles although I have yet to hear of one that has trained as an attack dog probably due to the reasons you have stated - temperment. Many rescue dogs performing these tasks may not work closely with the public and a proven temperment may not be as necessary as in cases when the dog is working off leash.

[mona_b]

[QUOTE=LL1]Temperament is not an issue with many forces,they will turn down dogs that are not "aggressive" enough.
QUOTE]

And who told you that?????

They do not look for aggressive dogs at all.And yes temperment plays a key role in these dogs.They do not want an aggressive dog.And I know of a few who didn't make it because they were to aggressive.

No they are not allowed to mingle with the public.BUT,they do have them coming into the schools,have public awareness in the comunities.Then,yes they do mingle.These are family dogs.They go home with the handlers and be part of the family.And they are great with kids.

I know of an amazing breeder who has supplied the K9 Unit in 21 cities in Ontario with their dogs.Some include Barrie,Toronto,Waterloo,Durham,Peel,Cobourg,York Region,Midland,Halton.These are just a few.I can go on.

[twodogsandacat]

I'd have to agree that in Canada and the USA today that would most likely be the case but not always and hopefully not ever in Canada. In fact many of these dogs do actually visit local schools (yes there has been the odd incident - I have to admit I watch RealTV once in a while) and are extremely 'stable'. They know when they are working.

Still police forces across time and borders have sought out aggressive dogs. they were used on African Americans in Birmingham. South Africa used agressive dogs during Apartheid and in fact some police were finally charged with using innocent blacks to train the dogs to attack.


Also police dogs have both attacked police and have been shot by mistake by police.

The real issue is that once again it is the mentality on the other end of the leash that counts most.

Don't discount this first page due to it's title:Repression and Police Dog Abuse
http://www.geocities.com/ericsquire/articles/dogs.htm
http://www.geocities.com/ericsquire/...s/dogshist.htm

[LL1]

You're wrong.I have met many k9s and have helped shelters with the criteria for what police will take.One was just turned down for being too young and not aggressive enough,the shelter had called them as they felt he was too aggressive for adoption.Which breeder is that that you refer to?
[QUOTE=mona_b]

Originally Posted by LL1

Temperament is not an issue with many forces,they will turn down dogs that are not "aggressive" enough.
QUOTE]

And who told you that?????

They do not look for aggressive dogs at all.And yes temperment plays a key role in these dogs.They do not want an aggressive dog.And I know of a few who didn't make it because they were to aggressive.

I know of an amazing breeder who has supplied the K9 Unit in 21 cities in Ontario with their dogs.Some include Barrie,Toronto,Waterloo,Durham,Peel,Cobourg,York Region,Midland,Halton.These are just a few.I can go on.