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Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:02 PM
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anti BARF ???

Right, there have been several hundred posts regarding the benefits of feeding raw and why everyone should be doing it

HOWEVER

There are many people who don't feed raw and they have heir own specific reasons...

Let's hear them here




ps - this is just curiosity on my part, not pot stirring....
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:09 PM
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WEll, I know I'll get told that I didn'T «DO IT RIGHT» (don't bother telling me, because I've heard it before) but here's my reason :

It made my dog VIOLENTLY ill. VIOLENTLY -- I mean emergency vet appointement violent.

I've tried on 3 seperate occasions, doing everything that you're supposed to do -- the supplements, the fasting, etc etc. I've tried with 2 different meat sources....

It's just not for us.

I'm pretty fed up of being made to feel like a bad owner because I feed kibble...one of the reasons I'm not here as much.....
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:10 PM
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I know I'll get flamed...so I'm gonna go now
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:11 PM
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1. Cost
2. Efficiency
3. Balance
4. Mess

  #5  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meb999 View Post
I'm pretty fed up of being made to feel like a bad owner because I feed kibble...one of the reasons I'm not here as much.....
Well you're not going to get it from me. I too heard a lot of dogs getting sick with raw. I don't think it's healthy for us, neither for our dogs.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:32 PM
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It's a very personal decision. You know what's best for you & your pup. I am very concerned about contamination so I keep the counter,fridge, utensils, food bowls & floors cleaner. If my dogs didn't do so well on 1/2 & 1/2 I'd be feeding kibble full time.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:34 PM
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Basically the same as Prin. It seems to be a lot of work. Not to mention the barf factor of my dog chewing on a chicken foot or whatnot.

However, I do make homemade and give her that and kibble. Before anyone says anything about the amount of work, it takes me an hour or so a month to do homemade.


Oh, and I'm not anti-BARF, it's just not for me.
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Last edited by Byrd; April 22nd, 2007 at 08:36 PM.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 08:48 PM
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I am not opposed to feeding raw or kibble. I think that whatever works for each individual dog is what should be fed.
I happen to feed kibble.
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  #9  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:01 PM
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1. Cost
2. Efficiency
3. Balance
4. Mess

Same here.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:02 PM
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my dog was sooo sick on kibble, and not muct better on home-cooked... raw was just the best thing for him. my two are entirely raw-fed and i would never feed a commercial diet (ie kibble), which while convenient for the owner, is not convenient for the dog IMO.

How I see things: if i wouldn't feed myself that way (eating an entirely processed, artificial diet), why would I feed it to my kids? Yeah it's not always convenient, it's messy, it takes chunks of my time on some days, i had to do some research before feeding this way - and so what?

ps: feeding raw is *cheaper* than feeding kibble, for me. and no vet bills, nuthin'... i love it
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  #11  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:10 PM
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i would never feed a commercial diet (ie kibble), which while convenient for the owner, is not convenient for the dog IMO.
see? I'm a baaaaaaaad owner.....

oh! and I'm not 'anti' barf -- it just isn't for everyone. even if that does make me a baaaad mommy!
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:12 PM
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oi!!! techno!!

that's pro-barf....

like I said, many, many testimonials as to why BARF, I want "why not BARF"




and btw, all, I did not necessarily mean "anti" in the sense that you are mortally opposed to it, just that you don't want to feed it...

you are not a bad mommy, MEB, I also don't feed raw and Gomez is perfectly healthy....
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Last edited by gomez; April 22nd, 2007 at 09:15 PM.
  #13  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:13 PM
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I feed kibble as well.

I am becoming more interested in raw feeding, but I don't think I will ever step over the line

to those who do it and their dogs thrive on it, but for me and my dogs, their kibble works well for them.
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  #14  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:14 PM
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my two are entirely raw-fed and i would never feed a commercial diet (ie kibble), which while convenient for the owner, is not convenient for the dog IMO.
Kibble is convenient for both. They can get multiple meats they wouldn't get otherwise, along with balance most of us would never be able to achieve feeding raw.

IMO, there's kibble, canned, homecooked and raw and all are equally acceptable options.. You just have to do whatever works best for your dog. And THAT makes you a good owner. Feeding raw to a dog who doesn't digest it or doesn't want it is just as bad as feeding kibble to a dog who doesn't tolerate it.

A bad owner is somebody who sticks to feeding a particular way when the dog obviously is not doing well on it, be it kibble, canned, homecooked or raw.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:14 PM
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LOL meb999 i know you're being sarcastic, no need to be... it's all about personal opinions here right? i know all the trouble you had with poor buster you tried everything and have been to hell and back! i'm not convinced a home-cooked diet wouldn't be better for him than kibble, but you are the mom, you are the one dealing with him so it's all good. All I'm saying is that i personally would never feed kibble to my dog no matter what

remember this is not a combat zone, it's about sharing experiences and opinions on various ways of feeding. I'm not pro-kibble, and I am expressing why

PS: prin that was a very good post BTW :-)
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll View Post
I'm not pro-kibble



Don't make me come back there!!
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  #17  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:25 PM
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Don't make me come back there!!
am i gonna get put in the corner?
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:34 PM
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Yes. And both beanies will be sitting ON you....

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  #19  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 09:38 PM
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now that is terrible! i gonna suffocate and be licked to death! noooooooooooooooo

please don't feed them lentils before the punishment :sad:

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  #20  
Old April 22nd, 2007, 10:46 PM
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IMO, there's kibble, canned, homecooked and raw and all are equally acceptable options.. You just have to do whatever works best for your dog. And THAT makes you a good owner. Feeding raw to a dog who doesn't digest it or doesn't want it is just as bad as feeding kibble to a dog who doesn't tolerate it.
A bad owner is somebody who sticks to feeding a particular way when the dog obviously is not doing well on it, be it kibble, canned, homecooked or raw.
Well said .

I started Lucy on raw 8 years ago. She had horrible allergies and chronic ear infections. It worked amazing well for us and I jumped on the raw bandwagon with all the gusto in the world. I still believe that raw is/can be a fabulous choice but I have also come to embrace other choices as well. I get somewhat annoyed when raw advocates get "preachy" and compare their results to a dog that eats a poor quality kibble. IMO, the quality of available kibble/canned choices that are available now versus 8 years ago is unbelievable and is a healthy choice particularly when supplemented with fresh foods. I personally know dogs that have been very sick on raw and although I have had great results I firmly believe that there are risks and possibly some long term negative health effects and that the raw "movement" glosses over that information. I know the risks and choose to feed it but I really would prefer to feed a home-cooked diet but realistically I know that isn't gonna happen with two large dogs.

I feed Riley kibble and supplement it with some raw meats, canned salmon, fruits/veggies etc. Lucy now has kibble (grain-free) in the morning and raw at night. If anything, I think she does better on that then on the all raw.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 11:09 PM
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I was feeding innova.and was thinking of going to timberwolf.and reading raw here and 2 of the workers at the pet food store feed raw.so i switched.
i want the best that i can give jag.and i'm always being told jags not my pet dog he's my third kid.all but the runny poops.he's doing good.on kibble his weight was up and down.and since on raw his weight has maintained unless he's put some weight on.and maintains it.his coat is shiner.softer.he doesn't have that doggy smell as much.his teeth are better.and he drinks less.but if kibble was the best for him thats what he would be on.what's best for him and how he does on it is what matters most.just like my skin kids.i try to give them the best i can.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 01:06 AM
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When and if I get another cat or dog I will definitely try raw as a first choice. I suspect the problems that do occur with it are from previously being on a kibble diet. ANY diet switch is going to be a shock to the system though IMO. Its nice that there are more healthy choices now when it comes to manufactured food and I also agree that in some cases that may be better for certain dogs/cats, mainly because most people are not willing or unable to spend the time to fine tune the raw diet specifically for thier pets needs. I think if someone is dead set against raw period then they are likely not all that educated anyway. It isn't very scientific to make an assumption that raw is bad from only a few personal experiences. That is my.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 01:54 AM
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Too lazy to fine tune? Meb's Buster almost died on raw. If your beloved pet nearly died from it, would you keep trying when there are amazing kibbles that work for your pet? Just as many of the people whose animals are sick or have died from the melamine tainted kibble won't feed kibble again, people whose animals have come close to death on raw aren't likely to try raw again anytime soon.

It's about time we respect each other's decisions and move on.

Most of the people who post in the dog food forum have researched their dogs' food. We're not feeding kibble because we're ignorant, stupid, uneducated, uninformed, or lazy. We feed kibble because we've weighed the pros and cons of every diet and we believe kibble is a better option for our particular pets. We all have our reasons, just as the raw feeders have their reasons for feeding raw.

There aren't many kibble feeders here who think raw is terrible. Sure, there are vets out there who hate it, and a lot of people who hate it, but IMO, most of us here think raw is an option, as I said before. And in return for having an open mind about raw, we get belittled and talked down to as though we are abusing our dogs. And I'm not just talking about techno. She gets the brunt of the criticism here, and that's not particularly fair. It's the raw feeder mentality- well, not all raw feeders, let's say the "nouveau raw" mentality.

You can push your raw without putting down my kibble, just like I can help people with kibble without dissing raw.
  #24  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 02:37 AM
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Well I must say I sit on both sides if the fence. I, like many others fed crap, then through education I found out what I was doing (mostly through people like Prin (the goddess of label dissection) rainbow and many others taking the time to educate me) was wrong and why. To feed a good diet is to use your own judgement and educate yourself about what is going into the food, be it either a good kibble or BARF SARF RAW. I would hate to see the Iams feeder undertake a RAW diet without doing some research first, it would be the same research that would change the bag from Iams to Innova (just examples).
For me it was a way to get away from processed foods and the uncertain quality if the ingredients. I dipped my toe in the water and I like what I felt, this may well not be for others and I would rather see a progression from crap grocery brand to, a quality kibble with an understanding of what they are doing. Than a gigantic leap to the unknown on the strength of a few testomonies. It's all about what your comfortable with.
It seems only yesterday I was walking out the store with a bag if Iams large puppy with a big grin on my face because I spent the extra on a quality kibble than the store's own brand, I was doing right by my dog (so I thought). Then I found Pets.ca and my world shattered and I had to go and learn some horrible truths. Those same truths pushed me into RAW eventually but I was also happy with the diet I chose (other than the way it was made)
and I still have more time to talk to people about choosing better kibble than undertaking a raw diet. I have 2 people at work who are on the road to raw, but there are 20 that now gang up on anyone using grocery store food, it's like a kibble revolution in the staff lounge.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 03:38 AM
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I tried my girl on raw and it's not for her.she's picky.right now sh still on canadie with cooked.and i picked up a small sample of orijen for $1.99.
and try her with that and see how that works with her.she's an 8 year old shih tzu so i got her the senior.i work with people who think i'm crazy for feeding raw and their feeding iams or dog chow and think it's the best and the better kibble is the same thing but more money.and i tell them to come here and do some reading.and they don't.they say it's only a dog they don't need anything fancy.so i'm feeding both ways.

Last edited by angeldogs; April 23rd, 2007 at 04:15 AM.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 03:58 AM
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Yikes, I take Gomez to the park for a little while and my thread goes WAAAAYYYY off track!!

This was not mean to be an "ode to raw"....

It was meant to be a a "why I don't feed raw"

I just wanted to see both sides of the argument, being as there are sooo many "FEED RAW!" threads and no "DON'T FEED RAW!" threads

I don't think BARF is bad or good, I think it totally depends on the person and the dog, I won't expand on this thought as Prin has done it so well just here.

Gomez gets kibble, Eagle Pack Holistic, and does extremely well on it.

I can't imagine, given the way he eats, giving him a raw piece of meat or meaty bone to drag around the house, smearing the carpet, the walls, his fur, our legs, etc etc... I mean, talk about cross contamination!!! He drags a chicken frame all all over the place and then we touch it, touch our faces or mouth without thinking and BAM, gastro.

Also, the boy does not chew, he swallows, I would hate to be making emergency runs to the animal hospital to dislodge a chicken wing...

Also, being in the food industry, I worry way too much about the quality of raw meats purchased to be eaten raw... even by a dog...

Also, we travel and he stays with various people at various times, I cannot force them to give him raw meat inside the house either, that would just be wrong. Or we travel and he ocmes with us and I have to pack a cooler with raw meat? nah.

Finally, I'm also not sure I would want to worry about Gomez sitting on me after eating lentils...!!!

SO there you have it -

Now back our regular programming!


oh and ps - I am not un-educated, thank you....
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  #27  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 07:25 AM
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I've followed threads here on the raw diets, and while I find them interesting, they're not something I would consider.
I like to find a high quality kibble and mix it with a high quality canned, complimented with some home cooked from time to time for both my cats and my dogs.
I'm ducking from the raw feeders now, but in my opinion cats are better suited to a raw diet than dogs anyway. Cats eat what they catch if given the opportunity and if they are so inclined....any cat can and most will do this. Precious few dogs hunt and eat live prey....there are some, I knew of a doberman breeder whose biggest most beautiful red female hunted for rats, voles and rabbits and they were her main source of nutrition. She had the option of eating kibble, but this dog liked to hunt and eat what she caught, but these dogs are the exception, not the norm. Even my dog Yogi would eat any voles or other treats the cats caught and didn't eat and that I didn't notice before he did so I could remove them, no harm done, and he didn't get ill from it, but these were little animals with little bones and eaten fur and all.
Most of the dogs I've known who kill chickens, do just that, kill them, they don't eat them like a fox or a wolf would, even known some to run and kill the occassional deer, but they didn't eat them, so to compare a domestic dog to a wolf or fox is just too big a stretch, again, only my opinion, to justify feeding a raw diet because it's a more natural diet for them. If it's a raw diet, then the fur and the innerds of the annimal should be included, again, only my opinion.
I'm not bashing raw, and I'm sure there are some dogs who thrive on it, but I'll never go there with any of my dogs. My indoor outdoor cats have the option of eating what they catch, but I'll not bring in live mice and rats for the inside cats to see if they'd like a little back to nature food.

Cindy
  #28  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:41 AM
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but in my opinion cats are better suited to a raw diet than dogs anyway.
Wait, so are you saying that dogs are better suited for a kibble diet? because if, as a species, they're better suited to kibble, then that wouldbe because nature designed them that way, and I really can't imagine any form of genetic evolution leading to a species that was designed to eat man-made lumps of food. Some dogs don't do well on raw, but I also bet that if those dogs were fed raw from the get go, they wouldn't have problems. Generally, we don't have much choice about what they were fed before they came to us, so there's not much we can do about that, but saying that the breed is not suited to raw meat just seems odd to me.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:48 AM
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Like I said, just my opinion. You don't have to like it, but I'm entitled to one too

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  #30  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:51 AM
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I also said, in my opinion, that if they're going to eat raw, it should be flesh, bones innerds and fur....there again....just my opinion.

Cindy
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