#91
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Well then I think thats your problem and insecurities Prin. No offense, but I don't see her saying that. If people asked why I feed raw its because I believe its the best choice out there for my pup. When I fed Canidae it was because it was the best choice out there for my pup. For the longest time you where pro SG. If a question was asked about what food to feed, you suggested SG. It was because you felt it was the "best choice" for your dogs. No one said, "wow that Prin makes me feel like crap because I don't feed SG". Because no one thought that. This is no different. Your just reading into it too much. And Mem, i understand what your saying. Raw feeders take a lot of verbal abuse from vets and such, and so many do feel they need to defend their choice, but only because they want to inform others of why they feel its a better way of feeding. Same way one would inform about a quality kibble. I still recommend Canidae as I feel its one of the best out there. And one of the biggest excuses or issues people have with raw or homemade is that its too time consuming. And to me, shes just explaining why its not.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth! Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense. -J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938 Last edited by Scott_B; December 13th, 2006 at 03:02 PM. |
#92
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A lot of raw feeders feel like techno does, and that's fine. But you have to remember, even when you're talking to another raw feeder here, there are other people reading. |
#93
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As for the others who read this forum. So? I'm all for new people who come on and ask, "whats this raw you speak of, and why is it so great?" No one has said if you feed kibble, you hate your pet. And I don't believe for a second anyone on here feels that way. If you seriously feel that way then you have guilt issues. I've seen Techno recomend different kibbles all the time. As I said, I feed raw because its the best thing for my pup, and I would do anything for him. If I feed kibble, it would be because I love my pet and its what I felt is best for him. Goes both ways. Kibble feeders just seem to get upst that raw feeders say these things, even though kibble feeders say it all the time. They feel they have to defend their kibble and so they get defensive and think the raw feeders think they dont love their pets. And its just not true! lol that was long winded..hope it made sense PS, I hate grouping into two parties raw vs kibble feeders. We're all pet lovers and thats what counts!
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth! Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense. -J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938 Last edited by Scott_B; December 13th, 2006 at 03:24 PM. |
#94
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What's up with the poking at my mental state over and over? Seems I have issues left and right.
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Like here: post #2 http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=33146 How is it best for them if they haven't tried it yet? Unless.. that's a general statement about how techno feels about raw? Sorry, techno, you know how you feel and I know how you feel, but sometimes, it just rubs too hard. |
#95
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Sorry, I meant that in a general sense, not personally towards you Prin. And again, I see no issue on what she posted there. I too believe raw is the diet that is best for dogs. And maybe thats why I don't have a problem with it. But you shouldn't take offense to her belief over it. I don't take offense that you feed kibble, or that you feel its better for your pup. Thats Great that you do. And I see no problem with that.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth! Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense. -J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938 |
#96
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and while i agree that the physiology of dogs and humans is different, the rules of biochemistry are not. thus i view comparing dogs and humans as comparing tangerines and oranges not oranges and apples. we are at least in the same ball park, even if we are't playing the exact same game. also, modern dogs and modern humans have walked down the evolutionary path together, so i think that dogs have been exposed to cooked foods for longer than people realize. i'm just wondering if the increase in health problems noted in both dogs and humans is fall out from improvments in diagnostic technology and improvements in health care that allow us to live long enough to have health problems, rather than solely the fault of diet. |
#97
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Scott, thanks for being there to explain my thoughts, while i was away in a 2-hour meeting, LOL!
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"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: Last edited by technodoll; December 13th, 2006 at 04:11 PM. |
#98
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LOL well, that would have saved me and Scott a page!
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#99
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__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: |
#100
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__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: |
#101
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And like I said before, the heat used in dog food extrusion is much higher than heat used for human foods. That's also why dogs who are super intolerant to a certain food within a dog food can eat it fine if you cook it up on the stove.
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#102
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And I agree Prin,home cooked versus kibble are 2 very different things. |
#103
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Ok, so low temp cooked (like on a stove) and raw cause the same allergic reaction, but the ultra high temps of extrusion and other processes to make dog food alter things and change the reactivity. Right?
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#104
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract here are articles on salmonella and dogs which refute the idea that dogs are any better equipped to deal with foodborne pathogens than people are, at any rate, asymptomatic dogs can act as carriers and a source of infection to their human caretakers as well as succumb themselves: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=339295 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...ournalCode=jvb http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum there's more, just look on pubmed also techno mentions: "Bitzane said that a protein’s function determines its shape. “When you mess up that shape, it’s called denaturation,” she said. Cooking causes a protein to lose its shape and its ability to perform its original function. " but the original function is only relevent in a living functioning being. once removed from the animal, "meat" functions as a source of amino acids and other nutrients. the pepsin in the stomach acids function to break down the structure of proteins so that the individual amino acids can be re-used. cooking does the same thing. the stomach uses pH change and enzymes, cooking uses heat. two processes that perform the same function. again, the temperature range that i found for kibble precessing is around 250F while food is baked in home ovens at much higher temperatures (350-500F). i fail to see how 250F is considered "ultra high" temp when my oven is routinelyheated to 325F or more. stove tops get at least as hot as well. i'm embarassed to say how many things i've had to scrape off my stovetop after placing thm there, not realizing that it is still hot from making something. |
#105
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comparing fish and crocodiles to humans and dogs is not the "same difference". fish and reptiles are ectothermic, mammals are not. and that's just the short version of the differences. just as there are themes that run through reptilian (or fish) digestion there are themes that run through all mammalian digestive systems. physiologically, all mammals have certain features in common as well as components that act with the same mechanistic characteristics. this can be seen in functions from muscle contraction to the release and regulation of glucose. mammalian physiology is mammalian physiology regardless of the name of the organism. like i said: tangerines to oranges not apples to oranges. or for those that prefer adult beverages: its the difference between red wine and white wine and the difference between wine and hard liquor.
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#106
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marine's girlie... sorry but i'm completely confused by your posts. what was your original question? you've gone all over the place...
Note: this is not a place to critique raw vs cooked for pets. there is a food forum for those who feed kibble or cooked or other, and a forum for those who feed raw. This happened to avoid endless debates and arguments. Just making sure you understand i am not here to say which method is better, we were discussing dog allergies as seen in those eating cooked foods vs raw foods. that's it.
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"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: |
#107
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So they tested stool and found salmonella. Big deal. Dont eat your dogs poo and you should be fine lol. Why do we cook chicken? Because most of it contains salmonella. imo, if you eat chicken, or hamburger yourself, there is no difference in handling the meat. And one case of a dog being sick really doesnt say much, when you consider the amount of dogs that eat raw and never get sick. I'm sure if i went digging I could find a dog that got sick from a kibble.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth! Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense. -J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938 |
#108
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i never stated that raw was better than kibble or vice versa. i realize this is not the place to debate that, but i was attempting to correct to what i perceived as misconceptions in the previous posts (eg dogs are resistant to parasites, so they can and should eat a raw food, cooked allergens are more reactive than raw ones, etc). that tract wasn't started by me, i just responded to the direction of the conversation. someone else brought up raw and then the convenience or inconvenience, then the benefits of feeding a raw diet. i stayed out of that, but i put in what i did as a by-the-way, with credible references.
soooo.. back to the allergy idea...my original post was disagreeing with a statement that raw foods are not allergenic while cooked ones are. in a truly allergic dog or human, they will both be misinterpreted by the immune system as an invader. i was also disagreeing with you that one cannot draw correlations between allergic mechanisms in dogs and humans. i think there can be parallels drawn and the point i was making is that it still doesn't make sense to me that a raw food item will not incite an allergic response while the cooked one will. you said that comparing dogs to humans was like comparing humans to fish, and i disagree completely. dogs and humans have much more in common than either have with fish. the outward signs are different, but the underlying mechanism is the same. therefore, simply feeding a raw diet in my view doesn't "cure" or "solve" allergy problems, but feeding a raw diet devoid of the individual's allergenic foods can. the same goes for a kibble. |
#109
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__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: |
#110
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Actually, not all chicken has salmonella. It's supposed to be far less than half of the chickens out there. And even then the virulence of the salmonella itself might differ from infected chicken to chicken.
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#111
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This thread has run its course and will now be closed. The original question from the OP has been answered.
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