new puppy

[creep]

so im looking at getting a new puppy this week.

it is gonna be a boston terrier x pugg aka bugg

i dont know anything about these but my gf has fallen in love with the puppy and now im gonna go buy it this week.

it has its first shots is it ok to take out in public right away?

i live in an apartment so i dont have a backyard.

i will be taking it to the vet on wed. im getting it tues night.

thanks
creep

[LavenderRott]

Where are you getting it from?

[creep]

i saw her on kijji.

they also have juggs available but not interested in them.

its there last bugg.

[BMDLuver]

I doubt it is their last bugg as they've now succeeded in selling a whole litter. Please consider that you are buying this puppy from a byb or a puppymill. Also consider that this is an extremely high energy combination which needs a ton of exercise and attention.

[LavenderRott]

Please rethink this. I can promise you that whoever bred this puppy was not in any way concerned about the health or temperment of it - just on how much money they could make. A bugg, for all it's "fancy" name is still just a mixed breed dog and I am sure you could find a lovely puppy in a local shelter that your girlfriend will love just as much and wouldn't cost much more then $100 (including shots and spaying!).

Having said that, you really shouldn't take a puppy out to a truly public area until it has had all of it's shots - not just the first set. You can still take it outside to potty - just take it to places that are not normally frequented by other dogs.

[creep]

before i buy this animal i will make sure that i see the parents.

also this fancy name for a mixed breed is a recognized breed.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/american...hybridclub.htm


as far as being a high energy dog i understand that the boston would be but i thought puggs were lazy or not so high strung?


creep

ps this isnt an impulse buy we have been looking at either a bugg or french bulldog x pugg for a little over a month now

[BMDLuver]

Pugs are not at all lazy. I drove one to Toronto for someone and at the end of the drive said "definitely too high strung for my nerves". Hybrid = mutt, this is not a recognized club nor recognized breed. Only recognized clubs would be canadian kennel club, american kennel club or united kennel club. The rest is bogus and designed to convince folks they are buying a designer purebred dog when in reality it's a high priced mutt. Sorry but I work hours trying to shut down operations like this and it is a byb or mill whether they have parents on site or not.....

[LavenderRott]

Interesting. I tried to go to the American Canine Hybrid Club and I can't even look at their home page without registering to become a member. The link that you provide clearly states that a hybrid is NOT a breed but a mix of two (or more) known breeds.

Look. I am not trying to bust your chops, talk you out of a purchase, or tell you what a bad dog that a Bugg is. I just want you to make the purchase with your eyes wide open. I have been involved in the dog world for over 30 years now and it is only lately that the concept of giving mutts a fancy name and some worthless papers means that you can charge hundreds of dollars for them.

I have a friend who has 4 pugs and a boston and I can tell you that daily walks of a mile or more are very much a part of the family routine. ALL of the dogs included.

[creep]

so they are not a byb if they breed pure bred is that what your saying?

coz i dont see the difference in joe breeding a boston x pugg and labeling it correctly

and alex breeding pure bred bostons with papers what makes them so different they both do it outta there houses.

[BMDLuver]

No, not saying that at all. You can buy a so called purebred dog from a puppymill or byb just as easily as a mutt. It's a buyer beware and be informed prior to purchase. Even some registered breeders have questionable practices.

Why are you looking at these particuliar combos? I assume it's for the pushed in look and pointed ears plus color? I'm sure it's not to rule out health issues as honestly, mutts crossbred can have just as many health issues....

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by creep

so they are not a byb if they breed pure bred is that what your saying?

coz i dont see the difference in joe breeding a boston x pugg and labeling it correctly

and alex breeding pure bred bostons with papers what makes them so different they both do it outta there houses.

The difference between a byb'er and an ETHICAL breeder is not only the fact that an ethical breeder is very much concerned with not only conforming to the standard for their breed but is concerned that all of the puppies bred are as healthy and tempermentally sound as humanly possible. A backyard breeder is someone who throws a male and female dog together and has puppies to make money. Period.

Finding an ETHICAL breeder takes some work. Having a registered male and a registered female isn't it.

I really didn't want to start a debate with you. I am guessing that you are young (er then me, anyway) and haven't really paid any attention to the number of dogs destroyed every year for lack of a home.

If your girlfriend wants this puppy and you are hell bent on getting it for her - great for you. But please, don't attack people who have dealt with dogs for decades for trying to teach you something along the way.

[creep]

i was trying to debate i was asking a question.
as for being an ethical breeder and breeding for the betterment of the breed bull jmo tho otherewise they would not charge outrageous fees for these animals. english bulldog is a prime example $2500 for a puppy but they are not in it for the money right?

why do i want this type of dog. i want a boston but i was hoping to tame down the hyperness with the pug that is the reason we settled on this type.

we want a dog that isnt completely lazy but at the same time isnt super high strung.

i would love to hear from others that actually own this mixed breed.

again i started this thread to get info about the breed not to have the anti mutt people come on and tell me its wrong to buy one of these puppy's.

if for a minute i thought that this was a puppy mill i would report them in a heartbeat.

and im not as young as you may think i have my experiences just not with dogs.

the hybrid issue happens in alot of other animals and for most i dont agree with them

i looked up the Full Taxonomy of both dogs in question the boston and the pugg and they are the exact same so therefore i dont see anything wrong with a designer dog.

creep

[BMDLuver]

Ethical breeders are not in it for the money as they don't make any money on their litters by the time they have shown the dog to championship, tested genetically, xrayed and ruled out 5 generation clean. You get what you pay for. They breed to better the breed.

And let's get something very straight...... I am a rescue. I have placed over 675 dogs in homes, and had 3 returns. So the high handed attitude really doesn't cut it with me.

You are considering two very high strung breeds and are not going to have a couch potatoe. You wanted an opinion, that's it, wrong breed combination choices. Oh yeah, and the $400-$600 dog is going to cost you way more than that when your done with all the vet bills etc.

So good luck on buying the designer mutt. If you bothered to check out petfinder you would see several of your designer buggs up for adoption at any given time.

[creep]

i never knew about petfinder.
im looking at it now.

as far as the price its not the issue i was just asking why the high price tag if it wasnt for the money you answered that and i can understand that. i still dont buy that they make no money as i know a guy who paid $1500 for his english bulldog. thats $1000 drop in price and we know they are not gonna take a hit like that to better the animal.

anyways thanks for the heads up about pet finder.

[LavenderRott]

Let's look at your Boston.

If I were an ETHICAL breeder of Boston Terriers, the following things would need to be done before I would even consider using a dog for breeding.

First off, we have to make sure the dog meets the breed standard. This means showing the dog against other Boston Terriers under various judges and getting enough points to earn a Championship. Entrance fees run about $25 American and it can take several shows to earn a championship.

Then there is the health testing. This is to ensure that as few genetic issues as possible are passed on to the puppies. In Boston Terriers, the genetic issues that you need to worry about are:

Brachycephalic syndrome

Atopy

Cataracts

Cerebellar hypoplasia

Cleft lip/palate

Corneal dystrophy

Deafness

Demodicosis

Glaucoma

Hemivertebra

Hydrocephalus

Keratoconjunctivitis sicca

Mitral valve disease

Patellar luxation

Pattern baldness

Prolapsed gland of the third eyelid

Pyloric stenosis



A couple of these are crippling or can cause death but by carefully studying bloodlines, running tests (to the tune of a couple of hundred dollars a piece) and re-evaluating your breeding stock annually, you stand a better chance of breeding healthy puppies. This is a MUST for an ethical breeder.

And then there are temperment issues to worry about. Your dog must be tempermentally able to do the job that it was intended to do.

Being an ethical breeder isn't cheap and by the time you do all of the above (on a pair of dogs), feed good, quality food and vet both bitch and puppies from the mating until the puppies leave home - you aren't making any money. You are losing it.

As for your reference to the price of an English Bulldog - add to the cost of all the above the cost of an assisted delivery. Due to the build of the English Bulldog, literally every litter born is whelped by ceacerian section - the head and shoulders of the puppies are too large for the birth canal.

[Mat&Murph]

I got my dogs from regeistered breeder and paid alot for them, but my breeder breeds mybe once a year and his vet bills for his female to breed and her health during breeding and welping Plus he will keep his pups if he can't find decent homes or he will take any of his dogs back at any given time in their life. He has been breeding EM's for 25+ years to make sure his dogs have great temperment, and are VERY healthy. He makes next to no money on his dogs concedering the price of the uboved mentioned. and His show dogs.

Kiji is a site of more byb then anything else. These people may not be keeping their dogs in cages like most puppymills but they don't care about the breeding the same way a ethical breeder would or the people who foster and recuse on petfinder. Please look at petfinder and have your gf do the same. Those guys need a loving home too

[Bearsmom]

M & M, can you PM me your breeder's name? Thaaaanks!

[lUvMyLaB<3]

English bulldogs are expensive BECAUSE the dedicated breeders have to do A LOT of work! They do not usually naturally breed because of their shape, they almost ALWAYS have c-sections because they cannot lick themselves amoung other things... Water puppies are a common occurence.. they can spend thousands on a litter and get no survivors, the most they usually get out of a litter is one or two puppies, and they have spent that much on creating and caring for the litter. Due to those high needs that is why u don't usually see them in BYB's and mills, and mutts.. Byb's don't want to put money out for a litter.

There are people on here that know more about dogs than most people, I would listen to them, they are right. They are dedicated people that SAVE dogs from being killed, and situations like you will promote with giving them your money. There are thousands of dogs that are killed, we don't need more mutts being bred. There is NO BREED that you speak of, that is what people say that want your money.. You will be buying amutt, no different than a shepardX rottie.. ect.. they laugh when you walk out of the door after giving them your money... ha ha ha fooled another one!

[mollywog]

creep- I am glad you came here and asked for advice before impulsively buying a puppy like so many people do. My friend in Calgary bought a Bugg from a pet store as a total impulse buy... she went in there to look at rabbits and walked out with a Bugg! Now don't get me wrong, it is a really cute dog and so far has had no health issues. However, she now realizes that she overpaid and should have gone to a shelter instead.
PLEASE... before you go and buy this puppy, read this:

http://www.intergate.com/~dougk32/shelterdog.html

thanks for your time. We really aren't a bunch of "mutt haters" on this site... myself along with a large percentange of other members here are happy mutt owners. The difference being that we got our dogs from shelters or rescue groups....

[Romeo's #1 Fan]

I was a little taken aback by this thread, those of us who are new to the dog ownership world like myself appreciate so much the advice from those more experienced than ourselves which is how we end up here. Without trying to sound pessimistic, I felt this thread was condescending. Insinuating that someone is younger because they don't sound as experienced is unkind in my opinion, and bolstering yourself because you've done something for 30 years that's humanitarian to make someone feel small...well... isn't, humanitarian that is. I myself was adopted and I have raised my two children who are both wonderful adults but am I horrible because I didn't adopt them or rescue them from an orphanage?

I read a lot here about the horrors of buying dogs from unsavory sources and have learned so much about it, enough to make a more informed decision next time. I fell in love with Romeo at first sight in a petstore, and he is a mixed breed too (mixed pug/chihuahua) - the horrid triumvirate: petstore, mixed breed, designer prices. So what about them?? Do you just leave them in the stores never to be adopted because it's their fault the way they were conceived and to punish their breeders? - and do you feel the same about them should they eventually become rescue animals (remembering of course that people give up their purebred direct from the impeccable breeder pets also, no pet is immune)... sometimes I just don't understand the difference. I guess I feel that there are different ways to educate that isn't quite so confrontational. That being said, Romeo has brought me so much joy and is a healthy, well-adjusted, normal 1 year old, still a work in progress as am I as his owner - he is as sociable as the day is long with both humans and canines, I couldn't have chosen a better companion no matter what the circumstances I bought him under were. He didn't ask to be brought into the world that way, and I for one don't hold it against him.

Quote:
"There are people on here that know more about dogs than most people, I would listen to them, they are right. They are dedicated people that SAVE dogs from being killed, and situations like you will promote with giving them your money. There are thousands of dogs that are killed, we don't need more mutts being bred. There is NO BREED that you speak of, that is what people say that want your money.. You will be buying amutt, no different than a shepardX rottie.. ect.. they laugh when you walk out of the door after giving them your money... ha ha ha fooled another one!"

I can't even express thoughts on this one statement. It's just not logical, wishful thinking maybe? to think of a world devoid of mutts? *whew* thank goodness I got mine first.

[lUvMyLaB<3]

Romeo.. No one is trying to be condescending. They are people that have dedicated their lives to fixing the mistakes other people have made. They have spent so much time and money saving the dogs that are a victim of the circumstances that have been created by the designer dog phenomenon and pets store ect..

The child comparison is mute. If a child was bought from a store where they are kept on display behind some glass, bred by people that want to make money of their very existence, left to poop and pee on themselves never getting any attention or stimulation or exercise, then yes most would say that is wrong. Especially if a thousand innocent children were killed that same day because there was no home for them and you ignored that to get the one kid you thought was cute. You cannot compare dogs to kids.

Should you leave the puppy there? YES, sorry, but if everyone did that, then there would be a few litters left to grow there, eventually given to rescue and to their own homes. If you think you are 'saving' a pet store dog you are not, you are encouraging it, you give them money to go breed more, a reason to keep it up, to breed more, to expand and bring more into this world. People that breed dogs and give them to pet store are sick, they don't care what happens to them. Pet stores will sell to anyone with the money. Someone can go buy it if they live in a apartment, then the next day have to give it up. Sell to people that have no clue how to keep a puppy, people that buy on impulse, not realizing what it will grow into, all situations that end dogs up in rescue and foster, leaving all the caring people on here that you say are condescending to pick up the pieces. There are people here that have to look into those dogs eyes as they are pts, that foster them when they are sick with the diseases brought on by the pet store conditions, that help them through the issues they have by not being socialized and trained properly. Should they be happy? and encourage people to buy these puppies? NO they do what they can to try to stop this viscous disgusting circle.

Puppies are not some product that should be pumped out in order to make money without ANY regard to their future!

[lUvMyLaB<3]

and about quoting me.. I own a mutt also.. Love him too.. many people on here have mutts, nothing against them. But of what people are exploiting. Mine is a rescue dog. the situation that people breed dogs, that are just dogs, stick a ridiculous price on them, give them a funky name and pat themselves on the back. Puppy mills, pet stores brokers ect.. NEED to be stopped there is NO justification for what they do.

An ethical breeder would have all their dogs heath tested, NOT CHEAP, would have shown and campaigned their dogs NOT CHEAP, given all their dogs all the medical care money can buy. Would inspect, and pick homes that are the best they can find because that is what t hey feel their pups deserve, and they deserve no less. Would have buyers sign legally binding contracts that make them spay and neuter their dogs, and also says that at ANY time in the dogs life if it cannot be kept it is to be returned to the breeder. The breeders of my lab have only had 4 litters, in 25 years of showing labs, I can promise you that NONE of the dogs they have bred have EVER ended up in rescue, I had to sign my life away in order to get her. And that is the way it should be, I must prove that I was ready to commit to her and provide her with the best I could. Pet stores don't do that. A person lets her dog breed with her neighbors dog, her dog has been to the vet only for shots if that, she saw in the paper that people were charging $500 for a similar dog and thought what a great idea, she then had 8 puppies, and sold them to whoever called she doesn't care what happens 2 months or 2 years down the road, she is laughing about the 4 grand she has in her pocket that she had to do almost nothing for, money she made of her dog-her best friend's life.

For the people who sell dogs to pet stores, well it is sick, who would do that?

I am glad you are happy with your dog, and he has a great home, but I don't think your dogs mother should be left to a life of popping out puppies as fast as she can so some human in her life can make money with doing nothing for it. I don't think your dogs brothers and sisters should be left to live a life in a store on display like a can of soup with no regard for their health, their needs for exercise and stimulation and socialization, left to poop and pee where they sleep. Sold to whoever has enough credit on their visa, people that may never take it for a walk, to the vet, to the park to play ball, left tied to a tree in the hot sun. See pet stores don't care who takes the pup. It is a fact that many siblings of your dog will not have a happy life, some will probably end up in rescue, some maybe put to sleep, given up because they were so bored out of their skull they chewed furniture, killed because no one had the time to train it properly and it went to the bathroom on their precious furniture, dumped because the horrid breeding left them with behavior issues that no one can fix, or pts because that cute puppy in the window grew into an 80 lb pile of shedding hair that has no manners.

There is a reason pet stores usually have small fluffy cute designer breeds, not huge rotties or labs or shepard crosses. The prey on the fact someone will pay that money on impulse. Fall in love with the cute face locked in a cage that someone needs to save. Did you ever think for a second about the rest of the family of your dog? What about them? You saved yours but the rest aren't. Your dogs mother is still producing puppies, locked in a cage for life, she has no friends. But they made so much money of your pup and others that they will continue to breed her. Not only that but they could double their money if they just get another female, lock her in a ditry cage next to your dogs mother and have her pump out puppies for the rest of her breedable life.. When she is too old? Don't worry, they know what to do when that happens.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by lUvMyLaB<3

Should you leave the puppy there? YES,

If you think you are 'saving' a pet store dog you are not, you are encouraging it,

Ditto luvmylab , excellent posts

for anyone who still think it's ok to adopt from a pet store , please read here : http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/puppy-mills/

and if you adopted your pup from a pet store because you thought : poor little thing , well , you just let an open cage for another puppy ... I bet the mom has no thanks for that . You can see some of the cute little pups parents here , WARNING , some are disturbing but I think some of you , need to see this as you obviously think you're doing the dogs a favor by adopting them from stores.

http://images.google.com/images?q=pu...num=6&ct=title

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Romeo's #1 Fan

I felt this thread was condescending.

I don't. And maybe if you would walk in BMDluver's shoes for a couple of weeks , you would understand. Many rescue people here have full time jobs, do rescue on their own time , spend their own money to help as many as they can , have to deal with people who dump their dogs on them , many for stupid reasons , inform as much people as they can , and even take the time to come here and help people with questions. I don't see why , after all of this , they would have to sugarcoat their answers !

[lUvMyLaB<3]

Thank you Frenchy for those links!!

All these people see the pups in stores and don't think about the rest of the family and the parents.. They just want that cute puppy, wrongly think they are saving it, and add fuel to the puppy breeding fire..

[allfurlove]

The OP said they were going to look at Petfinder so there is a step in the right direction.
You should probably rethink your choice of breed if you live in an apartment, unless you plan on doing ALOT of walking, light jogging, trips to the dog park.
I work at a humane society and agree that "buggs" or even pugs can have quite alot of energy, and become quite overweight without proper exercise (not that that is breed specific, but alot of people seem to think small dog = less energy) AND what if the BYB'rs mixed a JRT in there somewhere
Besides, Pugs are prone to breathing problems, so to try to up their energy by mixing breeds is a horrible thing to do, just as a start.
OK Im done lol

[14+kitties]

Excellent posts ladies! What a great opportunity to let people know the dangers/pitfalls/heartaches of adopting from kijiji/pet stores, etc. As far as I am concerned kijiji and pet stores are one and the same. Three quarters of the people who post ads on free web sites are byb's. As has been stated, pet stores don't care who buys a dog/cat from them. They don't do checks on buyers. They only see that magical bottom line profit in from of them. They also know where to get more jugs/mugs/slugs or whatever is the popular name for them these days.


creep - I pray you will find the pet you want on petfinder. If not, there are lots available at your local humane society for next to nothing. Why not give one of them a home and be proud to call yourself a rescuer?

[sugarcatmom]

Some good info on buying a puppy: http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_adoptio...ers_guide.html

And from this link: http://www.stoppuppymills.org/puppy_buying_tips.html

5. Avoid the temptation to "rescue" a puppy mill puppy by buying him. Even though your intentions may be good, don't buy a puppy with the idea that you are "rescuing" him or her. Your "rescue" opens up space for another poor puppy mill puppy and puts money into the pockets of the puppy mill. Pet stores won't leave their cages empty and websites won't leave their pages blank. The money you spend on your puppy goes right back to the puppy mill operator and ensures they can continue breeding and treating dogs inhumanely. If you see someone keeping puppies in poor conditions, alert your local animal control authorities instead of buying.

The only thing "rescuing" a puppy from a pet store does is condemn that puppy's mother to more misery and exploitation, and perpetuates the cycle of one of the cruelest industries on the planet.

[Romeo's #1 Fan]

I understand the messages you are trying to convey, I guess what my point was/is that there are ways to educate without ostracizing someone because perhaps their choice or their actions don't match your choice or your actions as a more experienced dog owner, but along the way everyone learns more and more. Based on what you're saying, Romeo wasn't worth it. He should have been left there to teach someone a lesson. So these particular dogs don't deserve a good home, they need to be made an example of. I guess that's what I have a problem with. That's what education is - it isn't belittling people or telling them they're stupid for what they've done. It's sharing a wealth of knowledge in a way that helps people. I've already learned a ton of stuff that I didn't know. Yes actually you can compare kids to pets - some people treat their children the same way as some do their pets, as disposable entities - the only difference is there are generally curtains on those windows. But that's a whole other conversation.

I think perhaps what this site should enforce is that people who bought their dogs from pet stores need not apply because they are obviously too ignorant to know any better. But then again, who would you have to rant at?

[LavenderRott]

You don't leave puppies in the petstore to teach someone a lesson! They aren't there and they certainly don't care about what that puppy is doing. The whole point of not buying a pet shop puppy (or from a byb) is to not put money in the pockets of people making a living off of the uterus of a dog. It is about supply and demand. If nobody buys the puppies - then the puppymills don't make money and go out of business.

If YOU learned about puppymills and why one shouldn't buy from petshops because of your purchase of Romeo - then great, he was worth it.