Election Poll

[Copper'sMom]

Finally, i have been able to read this whole thread - it only took 2 hours!!!

So many excellent posts here. I have never been into politics very much up until this past year. It's all so confusing at times!

As far as I'm concerned, all politicians are liars, cheaters and thieves.
I don't understand why the parties can't work together to make a better Canada?? Why do they have to act like children and nit pick back and forth about who did what or who didn't do what?? No wonder why I don't get involved - their maturity levels turn me off! WE are the people who vote them in, yet they don't listen to us!! So what's the point in voting??

Voting is like gambling - you may win or you may lose, you take the chance or do nothing at all!

Oh and it looks as though my vote has tied the NDP and Conservative parties!! Now I gotta go find Prin's poll!

[Prin]

Originally Posted by Rick C

Ah yes, the last, desperate retreat of those on the radical left who lovingly consider themselves intellectuals . . . . . people who are right wing HAVE to be stupid because they just don't understand. What other explanation could there be?

You misunderstood. I didn't say the hard right are stupid. I said the right will vote conservative and anybody from the left who votes conservative has forgotten or has not heard the hard right things spewing out of Harper's mouth. If you are left and you listen to Harper, you won't vote for him. None of that makes the right stupid. Pluto? That explains why it's so friggen cold in here and I haven't seen the sun for months!

Originally Posted by Heeler's Rock

Prin, I don't know what I said we heard from the fiberals. Abortion? Nope, I never said that. Stephen Harper was asked about abortion legislation. I never said Liberal, sorry if you got that out of my post somehow. I'm just saying that Conservatives are just that, Conservatives.

Here is an example of where I might have drawn the idea from:

Originally Posted by Heeler's Rock, Post #251

Just as the liberals are liberal. I honestly don't think Harper would visit the issue of abortion and that is again a scare tactic put out by the fibs as they're getting desperate.

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Prin, it seems that you have a skewed view of our political system......its not a presidential system

Actually, that's how it is in Qc, despite the "system", so I'm a little spooked. The Premier of Qc decides where the money goes and pretty well everything else (at least it really seems that way). I guess it all doesn't matter in the end because we're probably gonna separate after the next provincial election anyway.:sad:

Originally Posted by Schwinn

Really? So a piece of paper validates a relationship? I know a lot of common-law relationships, gay and straight, who would be quite offended by that. Not only that, a civil union gives the same legal rights as a marriage.

The point is not validation of a relationship. It's if you have the right to marry, why shouldn't everybody?

Originally Posted by Schwinn

So, really, that's an issue with the provincial government. ESPECIALLY if they are taxing the product AND the tax. In every other province, the PST is calculated on the product only

Yes the Qc govt is totally scamming the pants off us but we're not choosing that government right now. Cutting the GST is not motivation enough for the millions of Quebec voters to vote for Harper (unless they don't realize what the provincial govt is doing...)

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Even if they're small "l" liberal and...................................wrong?!?!?!?

Gazoo, you made a mistake. You can't be liberal and wrong. You're either liberal OR wrong.

[Prin]

Originally Posted by Ford

Friendly neighbourhood mod here.

First of all, thank you for showing maturity through-out this debate. As has been mentioned, it's been a good one. Please remember, we are many people, with many different thoughts and opinions. At the end of the day, I'd like to think most of us are friends, and can disagree once in a while.

I'd just ask that you continue to keep it on a debate level and not get personal. We mods are most happen when we get to stay in the woodwork!

That is all. Please continue.

ok... wait... see? Here's the problem! We thought we were drinking 10% Cream with our coffees, but really it was 35% angry! There you go. Problem solved: we're back on cream.

[Gazoo]

[QUOTE=babyrocky1]

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Of course there are a few Conservatives that are "fanatics" that are holdovers from the extreme right wing element from the Reform Party.

But they really aren't the strength in the party... just the ones that stand out!!!!

That could be said of any party though...I'm sure that there are some extremist, chain their asses to a tree, blowing up animal testing labs, granola crunching, clairvoyant, tarot card reading, wackos in the NDP as well (cough***from BC***cough)

....QUOTE] hey, I dont live in BC

[Rick C]

Originally Posted by Prin

You misunderstood. I didn't say the hard right are stupid. I said the right will vote conservative and anybody from the left who votes conservative has forgotten or has not heard the hard right things spewing out of Harper's mouth. If you are left and you listen to Harper, you won't vote for him. None of that makes the right stupid.

You know, I'm trying to start a fistfight here and you're not co-operating.

So . . . . now you're saying people on the right are born that way and therefore, bereft of common sense at birth, are not to blame for their genetic defects and should be given a merciful pat on the head and sent on their way whereas those genetically superior individuals on the left who might vote Conservative have no excuse for voting that way, particularly if they've studied the various platforms?

Well, that cleared things up.

Pluto? That explains why it's so friggen cold in here and I haven't seen the sun for months!

That's what the self-loathing left will do to you. Come to the dark side Prin. Calgary is the sunniest city in Canada.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Rick C

You know, I'm trying to start a fistfight here and you're not co-operating.

So . . . . now you're saying people on the right are born that way and therefore, bereft of common sense at birth, are not to blame for their genetic defects and should be given a merciful pat on the head and sent on their way whereas those genetically superior individuals on the left who might vote Conservative have no excuse for voting that way, particularly if they've studied the various platforms?



Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

.......well...........except for the excuse that the fiscally conservative policy of the Conservatives will grow Canada into an economically strong, self-sufficient and resultantly sovereign country????

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Rick C

Calgary is the sunniest city in Canada.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

actually my hometown of Medicine Hat is the sunniest ....but Calgary's close


From Environment Canada:

Sunniest year-round
Medicine Hat AB
2512.90 hours

Most sunny days year-round
Calgary AB
333 days

[heeler's rock!]

What I meant is that the liberals keep calling out Harper's issue on abortion being too complex, like it's a bad thing he said that! IMO, if his view on it is too complex, why should he be forced to bring it up when it's not even part of his agenda OR platform? They're trying to scare people into thinking that Harper's got some hidden abortion agenda! It's just not true...

Here's a quote from www.liberal.ca, that was written January 20, 2006:

Prime Minister Paul Martin encouraged all progressive Canadians to join him in stopping Stephen Harper’s extreme socially conservative agenda because Jack Layton has abandoned the field.

“Stephen Harper has shown in the last few days that he had a social agenda of the extreme right,” the Prime Minister said in a fiery speech to several hundred supporters in St. John’s Newfoundland today.

The Prime Minister pointed to Mr. Harper’s recent comments attacking the impartiality of the judiciary and suggesting they would be an obstacle to “absolute power” should a Conservative government be elected.

He also singled Mr. Harper’s dismissal of a woman’s right to choose as “too complex to explain” during an election campaign.

The Prime Minister said NDP Leader Jack Layton has sacrificed the interests of progressive voters in favour of his own narrow partisan interests."

This to me is all scare tactics put out by Paul Martin as he's losing more and more ground everyday...see how he waits until NOW to say these things? Probably because he didn't believe them until he started losing, and bad.

[mastifflover]

Originally Posted by Copper'sMom

As far as I'm concerned, all politicians are liars, cheaters and thieves.
I don't understand why the parties can't work together to make a better Canada?? Why do they have to act like children and nit pick back and forth about who did what or who didn't do what

I have to agree with on what you said. I also think the conservatives will put women and minority groups back to having less rights than any other groups. I also was pretty surprised to hear the ad where Harper states that Martins boats are registered in the U.S because the guy they hired to change his image is an American so what makes that any different. Wasn't their a Canadian that could have him wear a sweater and not put so much product in his hair? He still looks unapproachable and incredibly anal. Not that I am a fan of the Liberals either so NDP seems to be the lesser of three evils. I have a question when are people childless by choice going to start getting some kind of tax break? We pay for all these programs and education which we need to but why do we not get some kind of break because when you have kids you get tax breaks. My taxes were more than my friend who makes more than I do and has a kid and also gets a baby bonus. So that is my gripe. But just remeber to be realistic none of them ever bring there promises to frutition unless it benefits them.

[Prin]

Originally Posted by Rick C

You know, I'm trying to start a fistfight here and you're not co-operating.

So . . . . now you're saying people on the right are born that way and therefore, bereft of common sense at birth, are not to blame for their genetic defects and should be given a merciful pat on the head and sent on their way whereas those genetically superior individuals on the left who might vote Conservative have no excuse for voting that way, particularly if they've studied the various platforms?

LOL No... I'm saying that if you are right, you will vote right and if you are left you will vote left. The only thing is, nobody on the right is duped into voting left by accident, whereas some lefties may be coerced into Harper's "pot" and won't like the consequences. Harper just has very different views than the left and if he was to win, he would not represent what I want for my country.

Heeler's rock, I don't know why you're bad mouthing the Liberals... Nobody is here to defend them. Poor guys.

[chico2]

Well,one more day and we vote
The only thing I know about Harper,is his connection to the dimwit Alliance party,his promise of a measly $1.200 to kids 6 and under,that surely will create tons of daycare-spaces,WOW
Also his very iffy view of womens right to chose...sure,it's not on his agenda now,but his strong religous beliefs will have an effect on all of Canada sooner or later.
I have a very catholic X-friend who thinks all gays should burn in hell,she adores Harper.
I know not to judge people on the way they look,but every time I see Harper smirk on TV,the channel is changedI still have my Mulroney doll,with a noose around his neck and I felt the same way about him.
I think Harpers new popularity has him scared, I believe he does not have a clue what being PM of our great country means.
I give him a couple of months and he'll start looking like a fool

[heeler's rock!]

I'm just clarifying my post for you. And even if I do seem anti-liberal, it's cause I am.

[Schwinn]

Originally Posted by chico2

Well,one more day and we vote
The only thing I know about Harper,is his connection to the dimwit Alliance party,his promise of a measly $1.200 to kids 6 and under,that surely will create tons of daycare-spaces,WOW

We've got a couple of day cares lined up for Gracie. It's the cost we're more worried about. As a matter of fact, it's going to make more financial sense for me to take paternity leave than stay at my job when Mrs. Schwinn goes back to work, as the three daycares we found that takes infants, even the cheapest one will still cost us more than what my pay is after expenses (including GO Train, unless we get a tax rebate on public transit...)

Originally Posted by chico2

Also his very iffy view of womens right to chose...sure,it's not on his agenda now,but his strong religous beliefs will have an effect on all of Canada sooner or later.

Actually, he stated he wasn't necessarily opposed to abortion, his personal feeling just isn't as black and white as yes or no. Many people feel that way. But I'm really curious about the strong religious beliefs you're referring to. I keep hearing this from people who would like to scare others from voting conservatives. Yet, on my ride home, a politcal analyst was saying how he does not actively attend church, and during an interview with that twit Andrew Crystal, Crystal was badgering him about what he felt about the bible, and Harper kepts saying it didn't matter, he didn't feel that the leader should be guided by religious beliefs. Finally, to get Crystal to shut up, he said, "I think it's a good allegory". So this ultra-religious person we keep being told to fear feels that the bible is just allegory, stories that aren't truth, but just to convey a message??

I'm going to be honest, I'm still undecided, but the more I hear what is being said to scare us away from him, and the more I look into it and find evidence to the contrary, the more I feel like voting for Harper out of spite.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Schwinn

I'm going to be honest, I'm still undecided, but the more I hear what is being said to scare us away from him, and the more I look into it and find evidence to the contrary, the more I feel like voting for Harper out of spite.

[K9Friend]

I've been following this thread off & on the last few weeks. Some of it very entertaining!

I have already voted. Harper definitely did not get my vote. Why? He's not clear where he stands on many issues. The war in Iraq, abortion, environment - he avoids all these questions in interviews. I saw it first hand last night on a local news station here. He was asked how he would deal with Quebec's strong opposition views on gun control, abortion and same sex marriage. He answered but kept focused on the gun control discussion the whole time. Actually spoke in circles (sorta reminded me of Mulroney - maybe he's being coached? ) Totally ignored the abortion & same sex marriage issue. I guess he'll tell us next week when he's in power!

Did any of you hear about his little interview with 8 yr old kid - Daniel Cook?
Apparently Daniel was interviewing all the party's leaders and when his turn came to interview Harper - he asked him which party he would vote for if not his own? Harper's reply - I'd rather jump off a tall building. What a nice reply on a children's show. :sad: No, I don't find that funny.

Yes, it definitely will be a different country next week but at what cost? We're in for some rocky years for sure.

[chico2]

To be totally honest,it's not Harper that worries me,he is a puppet for who could potentially be in his cabinet,the likes of Clement,Flaherty and John Baird,Stockwell Day and others like them..
I am hoping for a minority gov,majority PC would be bad news!!
Here in Ontario,I am no fan of Mr McGuinty and I cannot stand listening to M Bryant,the dog-killer,but I was very happy to see "slick"Eves defeated.
Canada cannot afford NDP and I could never in good conscience vote PC,even if they would save us a couple of $$$,there is only one alternative to us..

[badger]

Stockwell Day Goes to Washington....nuff said

[marko]

Just a gentle reminder (because this thread has been brought to my attention) to keep this and all threads civil.

Thanks all,

Marko
ADMIN

[Shamrock]

With less than 24 hrs till the polls open,.. still undecided?

Here is a little test that will help you.

The answer can be found by posing the following question:

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small
children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around
the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you. You are carrying a Colt .45 Automatic, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.

What do you do?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Federal Liberal's Answer:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the
man look poor? Or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that
would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Does the Colt have appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun
anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my
children? Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1? Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes,
have a paint and weed day and make this a happier, healthier street
that would discourage such behaviour. This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Federal Conservative's Answer:

BANG!



----

Regardless of individual choices, I know you'll all be there to cast your ballot! May the best man win....

[Schwinn]

Less than 12 hours until I go to the polls, and I'm still unsure.

What I find frustrating is that the way our system is SUPPOSED to work is you vote for the person in your riding, not the leader. You'll still find some people voting along party lines for those who define themselves by the party, but for those who don't they'll vote for the candidate they like the best (as long as they can align themselves with the party ideology).

I had an interesting conversation with the local Conservative candidate, gave him my concerns about Kyoto and Canada possibly dropping out, and I was very impressed with the answer, and it actually made sense. However, we all know that this isn't how a government is chosen by the majority of Canadians. Really, it comes down to who gets voted in, and keeping the local MP out or allowing him in. Every party has militant MPs. Conservatives have an MP in Richmond Hill, NDP has Sid Ryan, etc etc. So, rather than voting in an opposition MP who can do something, if you really want to see something done to help your riding, you either support the MP who has a chance of getting in, or you vote against him to try and keep him out.

I like what Harper has to say this time around, and a lot of the scare tactics are just that...scare tactics. I've researched a lot of the claims by people who say, "You'll be sorry", and most are pretty bogus. However, he annoyed me as an MP for the Alliance. Yet there are no other parties that, at this point in time, I find myself closely aligned with. I like the Green party for what they stand for, but I find them too one-dimensional to be a party I would consider.

I think the best we could hope for would be a minority Conservative party (to clean house of the current Liberals), with NDP holding a balance of power (not because I like them, for I think Layton is a self-serving putz who is as bad as the rest of them for saying whatever will get him votes, his just a little more self-righteous than most. Can someone explain to me how him having a concert with the Bare Naked Ladies, and given a free ticket to anyone who signed an NDP party card would be different than him giving you $50 to do the same?). I think this would be the closest we'd see to our government actually working, a ruling party who doesn't have the power to ram through any policy they want, being kept in check by a party that really doesn't have a chance of winning, and therefore, not vetoing everything in the hopes of disolving the government. Then, we'd see the Liberals get rid of Martin. Next election, we'd see the Conservatives defeated, to get rid of Harper, and have him replaced, with another minority Liberal government. So really, we have a 4-6 year plan here...

Really, I don't think I can say it often enough...BRING BACK THE RHINO PARTY!

[Rick C]

a ruling party who doesn't have the power to ram through any policy they want, being kept in check by a party that really doesn't have a chance of winning, and therefore, not vetoing everything in the hopes of disolving the government.

That would assume the NDP have some God-like conscience which lifts them above mere mortals . . . but that would make it hard to explain why the best and brightest are fleeing Saskatchewan, only half to Alberta contrary to popular belief (according to Stats Can) and a goodly percentage in the critical 15-35 age group. According to the Saskatchewan Chamber of Commerce, of those remaining, only 13% put more into the tax system than they take out, the inference being that those remaining have a vested interest in voting NDP, hence the continuance of that government. So much for a wonderful social platform being a magnet . . . instead its a repellent.

And you want that kind of blood-sucking, regressive, influence in Government?

Its kind of amazing how the Politics of Paranoia have built to this point in the last 13 years . . . . . you have a Liberal dominated Senate and a Liberal domininated judiciary but somehow you're being made to believe the Conservatives need a check on power. Doesn't make sense.

What you really need is a change.

And I'm not even a fan of Harper myself as I've said several times in this thread.

actually my hometown of Medicine Hat is the sunniest ....but Calgary's close

Then no doubt you were doing what I was doing on a gorgeous weekend here in Bonnie Tory Blue southern Alberta, lazing on the deck getting a tan with a notepad plotting hidden agenda things like working out ways to disenfranchise women from their right to vote.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

[Schwinn]

[QUOTE=Rick C

And you want that kind of blood-sucking, regressive, influence in Government?

Its kind of amazing how the Politics of Paranoia have built to this point in the last 13 years . . . . . you have a Liberal dominated Senate and a Liberal domininated judiciary but somehow you're being made to believe the Conservatives need a check on power. Doesn't make sense.

[/QUOTE]

No, this has nothing to do with paranoia. I firmly believe that the only time our government truly works the way it is intended is when we have a minority government. The only way to stave off election after election is by giving the balance of power to a party which really has no feasible chance of being elected ruling party. Otherwise, it becomes a big you-know-what match, with the other party lying in wait to defeat the government to try and regain power. If you recall, I said several times I don't believe the fear-mongering. I've always felt that the only way it seems possible for anything to get done in the government is through a minority government, and even that is tennuous at best, as it always turns into a race to defeat the ruling party.

As I said, I'm personally not impressed with Harper (nothing to do with the BS and fear mongering I keep hearing), and the only way we'll see a change, is if he doesn't win a clear majority, or if he loses, and I'm not wanting to see the current Liberals back in power at this time.

[Rick C]

Originally Posted by Schwinn

No, this has nothing to do with paranoia. I firmly believe that the only time our government truly works the way it is intended is when we have a minority government. The only way to stave off election after election is by giving the balance of power to a party which really has no feasible chance of being elected ruling party.

You do realize, I hope, that the inevitable result of a minority government, regardless of stripe, is typically "election after election" with far greater frequency than you see with majority governments. Most likely a minority government will result in a return to the ballot within one to two years.

Also, you're inferring - yet again - that the party that Canadians, via the ballot box, feel deserves the LEAST chance of governing, the one they approve of the LEAST, is the one that should have the MOST influence.

Neither point makes any sense . . . . . although it might if you're a supporter of the party Canadians think is the LEAST relevant and has the LEAST to offer the country in terms of ideas or ideology.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

[Schwinn]

Originally Posted by Rick C

You do realize, I hope, that the inevitable result of a minority government, regardless of stripe, is typically "election after election" with far greater frequency than you see with majority governments. Most likely a minority government will result in a return to the ballot within one to two years.

Also, you're inferring - yet again - that the party that Canadians, via the ballot box, feel deserves the LEAST chance of governing, the one they approve of the LEAST, is the one that should have the MOST influence.


Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

I do realize the result of a minority government. Again, as I mentioned earlier, my frustration with our system is that, in my point of view is that the only way our system works close to the way it should, where each elected representative of government, regardless of stripe, actually has a voice for thier respective riding is if it is a minority government. And the only way that there would be a sustained minority government is if the balance of power was held by those who would not have a chance of forming the majority, ergo, not have a vested interest solely in the failure of the ruling party. Who does that leave? NDP, independants, and fringe governments. For an individual who does not feel represented by anyone party, this actually does make sense, on paper. Sorry you don't understand.

Originally Posted by Rick C

Neither point makes any sense . . . . . although it might if you're a supporter of the party Canadians think is the LEAST relevant and has the LEAST to offer the country in terms of ideas or ideology.

Wow, last time I heard a conspiracy theory like that, it was from, well, an NDP supporter. Or Art Bell.

[Rick C]

I do realize the result of a minority government. .

Well, thank you for that. That wasn't what you were saying earlier. As I said, minority governments result in elections every one to two years on average. You'll have far more elections and frankly, given the competitive nature of the parties, far more likelihood of Party Whips keeping their children in line given the thin nature of every vote.

Minority governments are a pain in the butt frankly.

Again, as I mentioned earlier, my frustration with our system is that, in my point of view is that the only way our system works close to the way it should, where each elected representative of government, regardless of stripe, actually has a voice for thier respective riding is if it is a minority government. And the only way that there would be a sustained minority government is if the balance of power was held by those who would not have a chance of forming the majority, ergo, not have a vested interest solely in the failure of the ruling party. Who does that leave? NDP, independants, and fringe governments. For an individual who does not feel represented by anyone party, this actually does make sense, on paper. Sorry you don't understand.

You're actually describing the Populist form of government advocated by the old Reform Party where ALL MP's would have been engaged in a lot of free votes on all manner of topics, with party Whips taken out of the mix. The intent of Reform was to empower MP's.

Of course, you would have needed the co-operation of the Liberals and NDP to do that and that would have been unlikely.

Obviously, the party to vote for which would result in a government calling for the broadest selection of free votes - where every MP could vote his conscience - would be the Conservatives . . . . . certainly the left, riding the politics of paranoia, wants you to believe the old Reform Party is still carrying the torch of leadership via Harper. I assume that would include EVERYTHING about the Reform. . . . er, Conservatives.

I've actually voted for every manner of party in the past, including the NDP, because I was basing my vote on the actual person and not the party . . . . . then I figured out, probably in the last decade, that your MP is like those guys in the red shirts who beam down to the planet with Captain Kirk. Dead meat. Largely irrelevant.

By the way, as I stated earlier, I thought the Reform Party was an abomination and I'm not a fan of Stephen Harper . . . . but I will be voting Conservative given the party is moving more to the centre.

Wow, last time I heard a conspiracy theory like that, it was from, well, an NDP supporter. Or Art Bell.

Perhaps you could elucidate how the following statement of fact about the NDP and its place on each election day qualifies as a conspiracy:

. . . . . .the party Canadians think is the LEAST relevant and has the LEAST to offer the country in terms of ideas or ideology.

Then perhaps you should check some of our NDP posters in this thread who, among other things, feel a Conservative majority will result in women in Canada losing the right to vote.

Then compare the relative hysterical nature of both "theories."

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

[Schwinn]

Originally Posted by Rick C

I do realize the result of a minority government. .

Well, thank you for that. That wasn't what you were saying earlier. As I said, minority governments result in elections every one to two years on average. You'll have far more elections and frankly, given the competitive nature of the parties, far more likelihood of Party Whips keeping their children in line given the thin nature of every vote.

Minority governments are a pain in the butt frankly.

As are majority governments, in my opinion, which is why I've resisted the urge to go into politics.

Originally Posted by Rick C

Again, as I mentioned earlier, my frustration with our system is that, in my point of view is that the only way our system works close to the way it should, where each elected representative of government, regardless of stripe, actually has a voice for thier respective riding is if it is a minority government. And the only way that there would be a sustained minority government is if the balance of power was held by those who would not have a chance of forming the majority, ergo, not have a vested interest solely in the failure of the ruling party. Who does that leave? NDP, independants, and fringe governments. For an individual who does not feel represented by anyone party, this actually does make sense, on paper. Sorry you don't understand.

You're actually describing the Populist form of government advocated by the old Reform Party where ALL MP's would have been engaged in a lot of free votes on all manner of topics, with party Whips taken out of the mix. The intent of Reform was to empower MP's.

Of course, you would have needed the co-operation of the Liberals and NDP to do that and that would have been unlikely.

Obviously, the party to vote for which would result in a government calling for the broadest selection of free votes - where every MP could vote his conscience - would be the Conservatives . . . . . certainly the left, riding the politics of paranoia, wants you to believe the old Reform Party is still carrying the torch of leadership via Harper. I assume that would include EVERYTHING about the Reform. . . . er, Conservatives.

I've actually voted for every manner of party in the past, including the NDP, because I was basing my vote on the actual person and not the party . . . . . then I figured out, probably in the last decade, that your MP is like those guys in the red shirts who beam down to the planet with Captain Kirk. Dead meat. Largely irrelevant.

By the way, as I stated earlier, I thought the Reform Party was an abomination and I'm not a fan of Stephen Harper . . . . but I will be voting Conservative given the party is moving more to the centre.

I was going to go through the entire point, but it'd be redundant. For the most part, I think we've agreed on quite a bit.

One thing I will say is that my whole frustration stems from the fact that those in power (cabinet ministers et al) are more interested in keeping thier positions than actually doing some good. Somebody earlier said that politicians become that because they want to make a difference, want to do some good, etc etc. I think that is true for most, and for the back benchers I think it remains, but I also think that once they become prominant in the party they are more interested in keeping thier jobs than doing good. Nature of the beast, and all. Not saying it's right or wrong, just frustrating.

Originally Posted by Rick C

Wow, last time I heard a conspiracy theory like that, it was from, well, an NDP supporter. Or Art Bell.

Perhaps you could elucidate how the following statement of fact about the NDP and its place on each election day qualifies as a conspiracy:

. . . . . .the party Canadians think is the LEAST relevant and has the LEAST to offer the country in terms of ideas or ideology.

Then perhaps you should check some of our NDP posters in this thread who, among other things, feel a Conservative majority will result in women in Canada losing the right to vote.

Then compare the relative hysterical nature of both "theories."

Actually, it was a tongue in cheek jab at what seemed to be an almost veiled allusion to me possible being an NDP supporter with a hidden agenda...conspiracy theory. Felt you were starting to get a little rude within the debate, and poked back. My apologies if my jest wasn't taken as intended...in jest.

[Rick C]

As are majority governments, in my opinion, which is why I've resisted the urge to go into politics.

Albertans would have spent the last 13 years agreeing . . . . but they'd change their mind with a Harper majority.

It just depends who you're cheering for. That's why I hated the Reform. They were basically immature children stomping their feet because they weren't getting their way, coming up with all sorts of ways to change how we ballot so it would work out for them. The Liberals do the common sense thing in that situation and change the message, representing nothing but gaining power.

Actually, it was a tongue in cheek jab at what seemed to be an almost veiled allusion to me possible being an NDP supporter with a hidden agenda...conspiracy theory. Felt you were starting to get a little rude within the debate, and poked back. My apologies if my jest wasn't taken as intended...in jest.

Oh, I've definitely been rude - lets call it blunt - in this thread. Deliberately so.

Then again, I don't think I started it. Although some comments weren't aimed at me directly, they were certainly aimed at "my kind" - whether it's Albertan or someone with a higher income - and I didn't mind stepping into the fray in a tone designed to challenge. I didn't like the free ride given those comments.

On our very busy off-topic board at our hockey site, the vote tally is 161 Conservative (59% of the votes cast), 35 Liberals, 30 NDP and 30 Green. A wipeout . . . . and I haven't even participated in the heated debate.

Frankly, there's probably a greater cultural divide between Ontario and Alberta than there is between Ontario and Quebec.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

[Luvmypit]

I thought this was a healthy debate until we start purposely being rude.

[Prin]

Originally Posted by Rick C

Frankly, there's probably a greater cultural divide between Ontario and Alberta than there is between Ontario and Quebec.

Definitely. So much is different between Ontario and Alberta and Quebec and Alberta. I think we're far more liberal here, and far more tolerant of everybody- for the most part. Montreal is a very accepting city. I walked through downtown with two Japanese students in the full traditional kimono, with the make-up and shoes and everything and nobody even gave them a second glance. People are free here to be whoever they want to be- in public. This way of life has become a priority. That is why, I for one, don't want a conservative government. I don't want to see people lose the freedoms they have come to cherish. Say what you want about what Harper has said in this campaign, but like I said before, people from the left hang on to the scary words that came from Harper's mouth in the last election, and we won't be responsible when he declares his real agenda.

Out west is so different than Ontario and Quebec also in our relationship with the US. Ontario and Quebec would do anything to keep our identity and prevent our culture from disappearing. Out west, priorities are different. Your patriotism manifests itself in a very different way.

To me, the election is far easier out west too- you don't have the bloc threatening you too. Like Gilles Duceppes most recent anti-english rant. If Harper is elected, Duceppe wants him to abolish all Federal funding for Anglos fighting Bill 101, but maintain the funding for Francophones in other provinces fighting for language rights. Isn't that a nice double standard? I know Alberta has it's own separation movement, but when I was there, it wasn't in my face every day.

[Luvmypit]

Its election day and I am still undecided. I am usually a liberal but won't vote that way either. And if you were in my riding ajax/Whitby there are not much options. I have one of those ultra conservative guys in my riding, Rondo Thomas. He hasn't been to 5 candidate debates so I doubt he will do much. His nomination bid was signed by stephen harper himself so that is why the conservatives are a little worrisome to me. YOu can tell me I hear a lot of its all a scare tactic to not vote conservative but I have the real reason right here in my riding! I considered voting liberal again even after I said I wouldn't but then I heard the attack campaigns, especailly the one where it says electing Stephen Harper would put a smile on Bushs face. . I am totally for maintaining our countries own identity and standing up for Canada if its in our best interests but that was straight America bashing. I have no reason not to vote for NPD and Green party but again I dont really have a reason to vote for them either.


I think instead I will joining the ballot eaters party..... I am quite peckish today.