Vestibulitis

[MaxaLisa]

Waffle away, there is probably no right answer here.

My experience with Indy, back in 2010, is once I past the point where I could *not* get both food and doxy in her, it was a very difficult situation.

I agree that you need food with the doxy. Silly suggestion, but try the baking soda - a bit of baking soda (like 1/8th -1/4th teaspoon in a syringe with some water - now and then after each meal. It has made a huge difference for two of my dogs now.

[SuperWanda]

Thanks, I will try anything! What does the bakjng soda do again?

[MaxaLisa]

Hi SW, I have two answers...

The first is that I don't exactly know what it doe, but for stomach upset that can cause panting, bloating, etc, it seems to help A LOT. The two dogs I've tried it on here have responded, and the only two other people that I know that have. Tried it report success. Jazz' specialist says it's fine and it keeps her off of other drugs.

The technical speculation I have is that it alkalizes the stomach and a lot of dogs suffer from acidity, though at the same time you don't want to actually reduce the body acidity too much (say with pepcid), because that's needed for digestion, etc. When you eat, the pancreas is supposed to produce bicarb, and I think that that system can be defective sometimes. I think it might be particularly helpful in dogs taking doxy, since doxy can create an even more acidic state.

It's a cheap and easy trial, and might be incredibly effective. It worked miracles for max, who was on doxy for a LONG time. The acid reducers like pepcid did not help him though.

[SuperWanda]

Well, we have stopped giving the doxy. It just wasn't working being that she was not willing to eat. After 24 hours she did seem a little better and ate more than she had been in a few days but food is hit or miss. She seems to not like much. Meats are not popular but she seems to like sandwich meats. Doesn't like hot dogs anymore. Had some chicken which I think she gets itchy on but I didn't seem to have many options left. Even got some dry dog food and she's had maybe a 1/4 cup of that at a time.

She really isn't that active though. We take her for two short walks a day but it is a challenge to get her down the stairs or even her ramp. She gets so nervous but once she is down on level ground, seems better.

She still has a head tilt which I read can last for a long time but have you tried walking around with your head tilted to one side. It made me feel dizzy.

I do have a great holistic vet here so maybe if she improves I could take her for some acupuncture or something.

[MaxaLisa]

I actually had a permanent head tilt for years because of the way my neck was out - doesn't take much change to throw you completely off!

I am hoping things get better for you guys soon!

[SuperWanda]

I think things are a little better. This is the 3 week mark and she is finally making some progress. She walks better and is eating a little better. Strange to me that all her favorite foods are not tempting anymore and right now she likes dog food . This is so surprising to me since she has refused dog food for years but right now the canned dog food is her preference along with dog biscuits. Her head is still tilted and she has trouble going down stairs. Seems okay going up. We built her a ramp to get her out of the house but she seems to prefer using the stairs to get back in. Whatever works I guess. Once her appetite gets better I'll start adding in some of the anti-cancer supplements I was using in the past for her nasal tumor. She still sounds stuffy and for a few days had a few drops of blood coming from her nose. The holistic vet here that treats our older dog has some yunnan pai yao which is a herbal that is great for bleeding tumors which I'd like to have on hand if the tumor is starting to grow and bleed more. I have at least started the IP6 again which she takes wrapped in cheese. Overall, things are looking okay and have gotten a little better than worse so we will continue operating our geriatric dog nursing home. I can only hope someone will take care of me this well later in life. My husband is worried since we have no kids so we better start exercising or something!

[MaxaLisa]

So glad to hear that things are a bit better, at least you are heading in the right direction...not good to hear about the nose I remember you once saying that you had good luck with something like lactoferrin? or was it something else? Can't remember, but I hope that you can kick that stuffiness back.

I had some Yunnan stuff here, but I was using it topically as a poultice, which did work.

I guess we'll take "okay", with the hope that things will continue to improve Being involved with elder care now with two parents, I hear you on the exercise stuff!

[SuperWanda]

Yes, lactoferrin is what I have used in the past and felt it helped.

I'm sorry about your parents. I have been seeing changes in mine and wonder if our senior parent years will follow our senior dog years.

We might have to move to California to enjoy our exercise year round as I hate the cold! Don't know how I've lived my entire life here.

[MaxaLisa]

Yeah, between dogs and parents, it's been a busy several years

You can exercise here, but pretty soon I'm not sure you'll be able to get a drink of water!!

I hope that things are going well there.

[SuperWanda]

Just wanted to let you know how well Timber is doing. She does still have a slight head tilt but appetite is back to normal and you can tell she is feeling much better. I have started giving her more of the supplements for her nasal tumor that I use to give in the past and hope that she gets less stuffy as time goes on. No drops of blood from her nose so that is a good sign.

I know that we had talked in this thread about Cushing's disease. I'm not worried for Timber but our older dog Shiloh continues to drink lots and urinate frequently. She has now started panting excessively and has the hind-end weakness and lethargy. We don't get a great sleep as she is very unsettled and and I really can't leave her for long because of her frequent need to urinate. I suppose the issue is that Cushing's does look a lot like the symptoms you see in many senior dogs. I'll have to look into that because this past spring her blood panel was great and they recently gave her a urine test but not sure if they checked cortisol levels. Something to ask about as it is getting to be a pretty frustrating situation. Should have started a new thread on this subject but just thought I would mention it since we were talking about abnormal panting.

[MaxaLisa]

I'm really glad to hear of the improvement - I was getting worried that it didn't seem to be getting better! I hope that the supplements do the trick. When I was re-reading timber's ITP/TBD thread, some of the nose issues stuck out now, thinking in hindsight. I just wonder if that stupid infection wasn't a precurser to some of the nose issues.

I've only known followed one Cushing's dog on the forum, so I don't know a ton about it, only that it's pretty frustrating. I'm sorry that Shiloh is dealing with somethign that at least looks like this

My understanding is that the urine test can rule this out, but can't diagnose it. I think that many cushing's dogs will have elevated ALK Phos.

I *really* miss my senior dogs, but I don't miss managing all the health issues of two senior dogs at one time

[SuperWanda]

I also just re-read that thread and wondered the same thing about her nose. So glad her vestibulitis does not seem to be connected to the nasal tumor. I don't think we'd be seeing this much improvement if that was the case but it did seem to take her a long time to get over it.

I think I did read that the urine test could rule it out but my vet mentioned a blood test. It could be that Shiloh is just experiencing old age but I wouldn't mind doing a test to make sure.

I can't imagine my life without these two but I also see how life is becoming difficult for them. I sometimes get frustrated and do feel burdened by them at times which makes me feel bad. Just hope we are doing the right things for them.

[MaxaLisa]

I am thinking that your vet is thinking about the main cushing's test, which I think is definitive. The urine test is just a screen. I remember they ran it when my old girl was at the ER because we wouldn't have time to wait for the blood tests and needed an idea asap of what was going on. If it's like the Addison's test, it's pretty expensive, at least here, because the stuff they use to inject the dog with is one of those that shot up in price.

We do the best we can do when they reach this age, and hope that we understand what they would want or not want by the time we have been with them for so long. I think you are doing a great job!

I hope that the supplements kick in for Timber too - that darn nose....