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  #31  
Old February 11th, 2007, 12:42 PM
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Hi Cindy,
I hope this works for you! You are definitely doing the right thing. But don't give up after just a day (it takes weeks for things to balance out... give his body some time to get used to things and clear out the old stuff from his system).
When my dogs have some trouble I give them a tablespoon of pure pumpkin (from a can, not pie filling). This helps them to firm things up. If you give too much though, this can cause the opposite effect! Also, since you are trying to eliminate things from the diet and not add them, you might just wait it out.

About carnivores-- cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs can extract protein from other sources, but far less efficiently than meat sources- they are still carnivores, just not obligate- so they can survive on a veg diet but it is not ideal or efficient. They can't extract nutrient from grasses etc, like herbivores can. Eating an omnivore or a herbivore does not an omnivore make, Spirit... Eating animals as the primary diet = carnivore, doesn't matter what the prey ate. The trace amount of vegetation, particularly from a grass eater, would just pass through the system.
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  #32  
Old February 11th, 2007, 12:50 PM
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Exactly Phonix

Winston, have you switched him over slowly or just changed foods? Some dogs can handle a full change. Others need to mix slowly to avoid cannon butt.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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  #33  
Old February 11th, 2007, 01:19 PM
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No...I mix the food...it does not seem to matter the quanitity of change ....Winston is funky with change! A few years ago before going with hypo food I had to try each meat product with him for a month at a time and thats why he ended up with Duck because he seemed to tolerate it better than anything else..I just have to wait it out!

Last night to make him a little more comfortable from scratching I gave him a worm cloth bath...on his face and his tummy...he seemed to really enjoy the warm cloth on his face! It did help with the amount of scratching for awhile..I wish I could lather him up in something but he would just lick it off! Oh well, hoping the food works!! His coat has 2 primary dry areas that are a bit lighter in color..I brushed him out and you can tell the fur is much dryer in those 2 spots..

Cindy
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  #34  
Old February 11th, 2007, 06:40 PM
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Here's all you need to know about bloat:
http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm#...atest%20Riskou

About the dog carnivore thing- I just think every dog is different. If your dog drools and begs for carrots, lettuce and broccoli, then listen. Some dogs seem to need more veg than others.
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  #35  
Old February 11th, 2007, 09:11 PM
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meb999 meb999 is offline
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First off, good for you for making a switch to a better quality food....DVP is not only a better food, but it's in a complete other category!!

Quote:
I feel so bad to think I have been feeding him crap! all this time! and what makes it worse is that it came from a vet!!
Don't feel bad....we've all been there, and what's important is that you are educating yourself and care about your dogs health. Good for you!

I agree with the pumkin filling idea that Phoenix posted, it helps firm things up.

It took me one year to find a good quality food for Buster. You have to expect the splats for a little while because your dog has been eating a food that had chemical digestive aids, and now his body has to learn to digest on it's own.

The best advice I can give you is to SLOWLY make the switch over, and to stick to it for at least a month. Give your pooch sometime to adjust.

If things are still very...ummmm...un-pick-up-able, then you write down the list of ingredients of your food and buy a food that doesn't have any of those (different meat source, etc) --> this is called an elimination diet. It took Buster and I over a year to figure out that he can't digest corn, chicken or barley, and ever since I've had him on a food that has neither of those ingredients, things have been amazing.

Here's a link to a list of dog foods and their ingredients -- http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28957 -- it helps to see them all side by side to compare.

Good luck
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  #36  
Old February 11th, 2007, 09:15 PM
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as for the RAW vs KIBBLE, well as you can see it's an ongoing argument on this board I love the idea of a raw diet, but my dog just couldn't digest it Every dog is different, and we just try to do our best
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Marie-Eve and Buster (5 year old-ish rescued Boxer)

Deep thought, by Jack Handey : "I think my new thing will be to try to be a real happy guy. I'll just walk around being real happy until some jerk says something stupid to me."
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  #37  
Old February 11th, 2007, 11:20 PM
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"Every dog is diifferent" is so right....that's why it's so hard to recommend a specific dog food.
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  #38  
Old February 12th, 2007, 06:24 AM
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Thats so true. Food can only do so much as well. Genetics play a huge roll in health. And in the wild, only the strong survive.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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  #39  
Old February 12th, 2007, 08:07 AM
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Hello

Winston had a rough night last night....he had me up at 3:30am to do his business...still liquidy this morning! Going out to pick up some pumpkin...this has worked in the past. I usually give him a bit of rice to firm him up but I did not want to mix that with the new food (duck & potato)..

Hopefully only a few more days for the initial shock on his sytem..

Cindy
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  #40  
Old February 12th, 2007, 11:40 AM
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I'm sorry Winston is having such a rough time. If the pumpkin doesn't help, my vet had suggested pepto bismol, she told me to put half a chewable tablet in his food (Buster is about 60 pounds, so adjust the amount according to your dog's weight). Of course, it shouldn't be used everyday, but it oes help firm things up a little when things getoutta hand! I would recomend pepto instead of immodium....
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Marie-Eve and Buster (5 year old-ish rescued Boxer)

Deep thought, by Jack Handey : "I think my new thing will be to try to be a real happy guy. I'll just walk around being real happy until some jerk says something stupid to me."
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  #41  
Old February 12th, 2007, 04:12 PM
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I actually wouldn't recommend anything... No pepto, no immodium because that doesn't get at the root of the problem. It just masks the problem. If it persists, I'd say head to the vet. You wouldn't want to wait too long and your dog get too dehydrated.
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  #42  
Old February 12th, 2007, 07:58 PM
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yeah, Prin is right....I only gave Buster pepto AFTER the vet recomended it But it's normal for Winston to have a few days of splats, poor little guy.
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Marie-Eve and Buster (5 year old-ish rescued Boxer)

Deep thought, by Jack Handey : "I think my new thing will be to try to be a real happy guy. I'll just walk around being real happy until some jerk says something stupid to me."
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  #43  
Old February 14th, 2007, 06:35 PM
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Well here we are a few days into the new food and I have noticed a few things.. First off he does like the food...I am almost finished mixing it with the old Hills Gastro Food...

-he is actually scratching less
-his poops have been off but this evening he has a formed poop! we hew!
-he is still pooping more frequently but I have to give it more time
-he had 2 spots on the back shoulder area of whitish color to his fur...well that is almost back to a normal brown color

I was a little discouraged yesterday when I arrived home from work...he had pooped in the basement...I felt really bad for him..you would have to know my boy to understand that he will not do any mess in the house...he will run around actually squeeling to get out...so I could imagine how he must have been while I was not home! The funny thing is that 7 years ago when he was sick and I was at work he did the same thing and this time it was the same spot! ( I was actually happy it was in that spot..concrete is much easier to clean than carpets or hardwood!)

All in all though I am happy with the food at this time!

Cindy

P.S He is so spoiled....I had to dig out a path in the yard for him to go do his business..I felt bad because there were such high snow drifts in the yard he disappeared and all you could see was his head! must have been cold !

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  #44  
Old February 14th, 2007, 06:57 PM
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Glad to hear Winston is scratching less and his poop is starting to form. So, it's a bonus that he likes the food.
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  #45  
Old February 14th, 2007, 06:58 PM
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You may want to pick up a pre/probiotic as that may help the intestinal tract. Eagle makes a great one specifically for the issue you describe.
You can use yogurt, however using a variety of strains I think it better, and alot of dogs are lactose intollerant
http://eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_Solution.html
The fact that the itching is less sounds promising, pooping more not so promising. This is probably due to the intestinal tract not being settled. SOmetimes is takes awhile, as what you were using contained alot of plant protein and carbs.
If you are feeling really adventurous a digestive enzyme would also be great.
www.prozyme.com
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  #46  
Old February 14th, 2007, 07:20 PM
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Gypsy Girl how much yogurt do you give? Winston is a big boy @ 110lbs ...he eats between 3 & 4 cups per day..

Cindy
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  #47  
Old February 14th, 2007, 07:33 PM
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You would need to feed around 250ml-500ml of yogurt per day to get the benefit. You will also need to ensure that the yogurt is "alive" and it will be stated on the side of the container, "guaranteed amounts of....." choose what you can find that is the highest #>
I am more of a fan of a mixed bag of probiotics, and you can use anything for people that is in the health food store, just adjust according to size.
Kefir is also great and can be found in alot of grocery stores now, and certainly the health food store.
http://www.kefir.net/
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  #48  
Old February 14th, 2007, 07:38 PM
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GOOD idea on the probiotics!! I gave Buster some and it REALLY helped. I tried yogurt, and it gave him the squirts (lactose isn'T the easiest thing for dogs). I bought probiotics and digestive enzymes at the regular pharmacy (they're kept in the fridge, so you have to ask the pharmacist). The 'human' ones are the same as the dog ones, except cheaper (mine cost me about 7 to 10 bucks for a bottle)
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Marie-Eve and Buster (5 year old-ish rescued Boxer)

Deep thought, by Jack Handey : "I think my new thing will be to try to be a real happy guy. I'll just walk around being real happy until some jerk says something stupid to me."
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  #49  
Old February 17th, 2007, 08:47 AM
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Well it has been about a week now and Winston really likes the food....I noticed 2 things that I wonder if they are food related? He has been rubbing the chin and side of his face now and also licking his paws! I have looked and there is nothing on the chin or face? I thought with his paws it may be from the snow we have had...He disappears in the yard up to his neck when he goes to do his business! Even though I spoiled him and shovelled out an area for him! They are a little rough too! I do wipe his feet of and remove all the little cling on's that get stuck in his web feet!

Could this be the new food?

Cindy
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  #50  
Old February 17th, 2007, 11:31 PM
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It sounds like allergies to me but Prin is the expert and should reply shortly.
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  #51  
Old February 18th, 2007, 12:09 AM
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Natural Balance Duck and Potato? Causing itchies?

He had itchies before, right? It could take a couple months to get rid of the itchies he had before the food switch, and ALL other foods have to be eliminated from the diet- cookies, human foods, everything. If the itchies keep getting worse, then you will have to switch him to something else. Being that he just switched, I'd say switch over to either the NB venison and brown rice or the sweet potato and fish- staying within one brand might be easier for him to switch again than switching brands completely (even if it might not be sure to fix the allergy...).
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  #52  
Old February 28th, 2007, 01:48 PM
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Well today I am feeling a bit down! Winston is really not adapting to this new food. I have tried to ignore it and not worry but it is driving me crazy!

His poops are soft but formed which is better than before but he is not using any of this food?? His poops are HUGE..which they were never like that before? He has pooped in the house twice now since the changeover which he he only did once when he was a puppy! I know I need to give it time to adjust but I am feeling bad for him...I thought that there was some improvement in the first week or so but really am not sure now...

I did buy the large 30lb bag and have half of it left? Just not sure what to do at this point. Leave him on it longer or try something different.???

Cindy
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  #53  
Old February 28th, 2007, 02:25 PM
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Are you giving him the probiotics and digestive enzymes?
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  #54  
Old March 1st, 2007, 01:24 AM
Prin Prin is offline
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The stools can be huge in the beginning... As long as they're getting better and his allergies are getting better, it's ok... You just have to give it time, IMO... You can try probiotics or cutting back 1/8th of a cup at a time for a couple days to see if that helps.
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  #55  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:54 PM
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I bought this today...anything I need to know? Should I expect a change in his eating habits or anything?

Cindy

http://eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_Solution.html
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  #56  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 03:09 PM
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gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
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I LOVE this stuff! I recommend it to people who are having trouble getting a firm stool. It does not mask the problem, but rather works to enhance digestion. Great choice!
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  #57  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 03:34 PM
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I've never seen it before. I don't like the owners of the only pet store in town that carries Eagle Pack so I don't go in there. It looks good though so if I ever need something I guess I'll have to put on my sunglasses and bite my tongue to go in there.
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  #58  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsy_girl View Post
I LOVE this stuff! I recommend it to people who are having trouble getting a firm stool. It does not mask the problem, but rather works to enhance digestion. Great choice!
Gypsey girl...did you go by the directions on it? It indicates 1/4 teaspoon per cup of food? My boy eats between 3-4 cups..could it be too much to start with?

Cindy

P.S There was another product almost identical but half the price and it was to be used for only 7 days or as a transition between food changes??
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  #59  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 06:05 PM
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You can't really overfeed this stuff. I experimented following the directions, and decreasing to see where the perfect point was. This is pre/probiotics AND digestive enzymes with Total Live Microorganisms: 5 billion CFU/gram, can you post what the other is? I can't see a reason why you would only feed it for 7 days, unless that is the marketing speil that they have chosen. If you continue on with these digestive aids, you could also ask that particular company if they see a reason why long term use is contraindicated.
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  #60  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 09:08 PM
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Goldens4Ever Goldens4Ever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
I just remembered Natural Balance has citric acid in their food which can be bad if your dog is prone to bloat......
NO. I posted a thread about this last fall. Citric Acid has been permanently removed from all of their dry kibbles dated 2007 & after.
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