frustrated by some pet owners

[Golden Girls]

Removed my comment as well, most definately not worth it!

[Winston]

I removed it...sorry GG

Just my opinion though???

[Melinda]

no worries GG, it wasn't a threadjack in my opinion.

[Love4himies]

I think there is a big difference between those who live in the country and have their dogs accompany them while household chores are being done and just putting the dogs in a tiny fenced backyard and leaving them there.

There is also a big difference between the amount of walking a tiny dog needs vs a medium to large dog.

If you are elderly and can't walk far (and I personally think exercise is important at ALL ages), then don't get a border collie or bull mastiff, get a small breed that isn't hyperactive.

If you live in the country and the dog is allowed free to run the yard while the humans are outside, that is stimulation and exercise.

I think Melinda's point was not to get a dog who requires stimulation and not give it.

[Golden Girls]

Originally Posted by Winston

I removed it...sorry GG Just my opinion though???

That's ok Winston, your intentions were good. Of course you are entitled to your opinion

[Bailey_]

There is also a big difference between the amount of walking a tiny dog needs vs a medium to large dog.
If you are elderly and can't walk far (and I personally think exercise is important at ALL ages), then don't get a border collie or bull mastiff, get a small breed that isn't hyperactive.

Huge misconception. Small breeds *ARE* hyperactive, and most require just as much or more excercise than some of our large breeds. We need to remember when picking a dog for energy level - size does not mean that it will be a less hyper or active dog. Look at the breed, and then look at the individual personality of the dog.

[Melinda]

on a side note Baily, what is the best dog for terms of "less energy" that would be good for a senior??

I'm really kind of sorry I shared this rant, didn't realize how many nerves I'd hit with it and it wasn't my intention, figured I'd make myself feel better by ranting with like minded people.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

Huge misconception. Small breeds *ARE* hyperactive, and most require just as much or more excercise than some of our large breeds. We need to remember when picking a dog for energy level - size does not mean that it will be a less hyper or active dog. Look at the breed, and then look at the individual personality of the dog.

I realize this, but a tiny dog, can run around a house/apt quite a bit during the day to get exercise (thinking of an elderly person who doesn't get outside too much but still wants a companion), where as a bull mastiff can't really run around an apartment. two or three steps and it would be at a wall, lol.

My comment was a general comment.

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by Melinda

on a side note Baily, what is the best dog for terms of "less energy" that would be good for a senior??

I'm really kind of sorry I shared this rant, didn't realize how many nerves I'd hit with it and it wasn't my intention, figured I'd make myself feel better by ranting with like minded people.

Awwh, don't be sorry about it Melinda. It's good to ask questions and share your opinions - even if others don't agree - it helps give us all a better perspective of varying sides of issues.

To be honest, when someone asks me what breed would be good for their specific situation, I ALWAYS tell them to look at the individual dog rather than focus on finding a certain breed. Remember that the age of the dog and past history & training will come into play when looking for a dog that might be suitable for an elderly couple.

With that said, some of the more quiet breeds like pugs - might come with a slew of health issues that a senior wouldn't be ready to deal with. Is the senior experienced with raising dogs in the past or not?

I personally would suggest thinking of cocker spaniels, bichon frise, papillions, or poodles - all of which would probably make a great pet for a senior. Again, this all depends on the temperment and individual exercise needs for the specific dog. A senior can hire a dog walker, which I would encourage.

[shibamom]

Our Shiba Inu is small (30lbs) but has a very high exercise/mental stimulation need, like all primitive breeds with high prey drive.

We live in a condo with no yard.

So, he goes for a 5 minute potty at 8am, a 1 hour long (5k) walk at around 11am, and even the dog park again for another hour, plus more short potty walks throughout the day and a final "lap" at night. On days when I have to work, I still come home on my break for one hour and walk him (in addition to a 5am walk and an 8pm walk).

It's a LOT, I admit which is why it is so important to know your breed. Of course, if we had let him just lazy around the house all day, I don't think he could sustain this activity, but he is a very active strong boy.

[Melinda]

thanks Bailey

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by shibamom

Our Shiba Inu is small (30lbs) but has a very high exercise/mental stimulation need, like all primitive breeds with high prey drive.

We live in a condo with no yard.

So, he goes for a 5 minute potty at 8am, a 1 hour long (5k) walk at around 11am, and even the dog park again for another hour, plus more short potty walks throughout the day and a final "lap" at night. On days when I have to work, I still come home on my break for one hour and walk him (in addition to a 5am walk and an 8pm walk).

It's a LOT, I admit which is why it is so important to know your breed. Of course, if we had let him just lazy around the house all day, I don't think he could sustain this activity, but he is a very active strong boy.

Thanks for sharing Shibamom. Exactly - a prime example showing that small breeds can still need a lot of excercise, and that just because they're 'small' doesn't neccessarily mean that they'll do better than a large breed in certain living spaces.

Your welcome Mel!! I'm also curious if you've thought about possibly helping these people with their dogs as far as slowly helping the dogs learn to socialize again? I'm not sure if you have time, or even the desire to do so, but maybe if they could get to a point where they are able to walk past another dog - it'd be a more enjoyable experience for the woman to take them out on walks with her?

[shibamom]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

Thanks for sharing Shibamom. Exactly - a prime example showing that small breeds can still need a lot of excercise, and that just because they're 'small' doesn't neccessarily mean that they'll do better than a large breed in certain living spaces.

Yes, breed awareness is SO important. I couldn't expect the average person to do what we do as we are a very, very active couple (I am 6 months pregnant and still hike or run with Simba at least two hours a day, and he likes to play in the gym with me while I do my weight lifting) .

Exposure to mental stimulation and exercise really is a must. What that stimulation/exercise is, I don't know, as I am only familiar with the specific needs of Shiba Inus. However, I think exercise and stimulation (new experiences, smells) is important to all breeds.

[shibamom]

I also think there is a big difference between those who cannot devote a lot of time to exercise and those who are just lazy. I know plenty of able-bodied people (my neighbour) who can't be bothered to take her 2 dogs past the grass at the front of the condo, yet I'm 6 months, almost 7 months pregnant, and can still walk Simba or do trails with him??? We also have a neighbour who is unable to exercise his dog due to her disabilities, but hires a dog walker or asks us to take him along. Big difference.

[BenMax]

This is an interesting read...I am not sure how i feel about it really.

Firstly, to each is own. If the dog is loved, groomed, feed well and has a warm place to stay - then who cares if someone opens their back door to let them out?

For those that are rescueing dogs from shelters and kill pounds, one would think that a back yard to romp in is better than the dog finding themselves in a gas chamber, on the euthanasia table and then freezer.

I walk my dogs in the morning and twice at night...but I have to admit, that I wish I had a back yard to let them do their 'thing' in the morning so that I could get to work quicker...and maybe sleep in a little longer. Selfish? Maybe but heck I would love to have this luxuary.

So many people live their lives for and sometimes around their animals. It is sad that people are judged so harshly or picked apart if they have a backyard and put their animals out to exercise there. Everyone's circumstances are different. Everything should be taken into account before judging. Just my .

[Bailey_]

I agree with you BenMax to a certain extent. While I'm certainly not saying that 'death' is a better option for an understimulated and underexcercised animal, in my line of work I see way too many animals that are so unbalanced and deprived because people don't take into account that stimulation, play, and excercise are VERY important things when taking on a dog.

I have a heart, and I feel for people that want a companion who may not have a lot of time for outdoor excercise or money to pay someone to do it for them. But I also am a firm believer that this situation is EXACTLY the reason that so many dogs *are* eventually euthanized and wind up in shelters.

Many behavioral problems can be fixed through proper stimulation and training, but it takes effort on part of the owner. And if someone brings an animal into their life without taking that into considertion, IMO they're doing more harm than good - regardless of how loved the animal would be inside the home. I've seen many "loved" animals that were part of the family one minute - abandoned the next.

People need to realize before getting a pet that there is more to owning a dog than just feeding it, watering it, and giving it shelter.

[Golden Girls]

Bailey "People need to realize before getting a pet that there is more to owning a dog than just feeding it, watering it, and giving it shelter" I couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by Bailey_

Thanks for sharing Shibamom. Exactly - a prime example showing that small breeds can still need a lot of excercise, and that just because they're 'small' doesn't neccessarily mean that they'll do better than a large breed in certain living spaces

It's said Chin's exercise needs are minimal and their perfect for small living spaces like condo's - this is so not true unless it's because he's still a puppy. He's a duracell battery and never sits still in the house. When walking he's so alert to any noise and will growl at the wind, constant either pulling ahead or pulls back to leg lift, tries to catch snowflakes - soo easily bored. In unleashed areas if I didn't bring his squeeky toy I would not be able to catch him no matter how long he's been running.

He's a lively happy dog and extremely devoted as well as an excellent watch dog, all true but I've read their good with other pets just not ok with children that's not true. Maybe if one didn't socialize them from a young age he wouldn't tollerate children that though could be said about all dogs.

Their an extremely confident breed and needs a strong leader and were bred strictly to serve as a companion and that he is, affectionate - he lives and breathes for attention and must be the center of it.

This is a general description of a Chin IMO he would not thrive living with an elderly in a condo but as said they each come with their own character which makes just another good reason to adopt; they usually will come with a manual

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

People need to realize before getting a pet that there is more to owning a dog than just feeding it, watering it, and giving it shelter.

Bailey - I like you and agree with you most times, but for pete's sake, I know this quote only too well.

It is not a perfect world. If there were organizations that only adopted out to people who sign a contract stating that they will always walk there dogs then I highly doubt that many animals would be adopted. And lets not forget, many rescues, breeders and HS will not adopt out dogs if there is no fenced back yard. So really - there is a catch 22 now isn't there.

I don't live in a perfect world. Heck - I am not perfect. My fosters and my dogs would love to play together, off leash, in a yard, all together. I think that they would benefit from this luxuary.

[Bailey_]

BenMax, I'm not saying that dogs shouldn't be allowed to run around in a yard as a form of excercise. I do it with my own dogs, and I'm grateful to have this for them.

My stand is against people that seem to think they can give a dog everything it needs, without thinking of how much time they can allot for excercise & play.

Excercise for a dog, in whatever form it may come, is imperative.

If a person has no yard, they should feel they have no choice but to make TIME for their dog. I don't believe in excuses. I think someone in this thread previously commented about what should a person do if they have a dog but are in a wheelchair and perhaps this person has no money to hire a dog walker? Fine. Ask a friend, or a trusted neighborhood young person to do it for you. I can think of a great example in BabyMomma who walks some of the dogs in her own area because they wouldn't get that stimulation and excercise otherwise.

If your dog is not getting the proper amount of excercise and it's showing in their behavior - the owner is doing something wrong. Period - and YES - this is neglecting an animals trivial need for stimulation & socialization, which IMO is just as bad as neglect in other ways.

If we don't start telling people how important it is, this society will continue to believe that it is not a big deal. And that is why we see so many dogs continuing to fall victim to shelters - or bounced from home to home.

[BenMax]

Oh boy - yeah - have a dog like my min pin and GSD...ask someone to 'walk into my home' and even try to touch the dogs....guess who is getting sued!

I understand your whole philosophy around exercise, stimulation, blah blah, you are 100% right. BUT - I know people that do not put a leash on their dogs and walk that have very balanced and happy packs. So one cannot say that ALL dogs should be walked on leash as this is not a standard 'must have'. Again - it would depend absolutely on the 'temperment' of your dog.

I am appauled about using ridiculous terms like 'should not own a dog' or 'ignoramous' or anything else of the sorts. It is a blanket statement that is just down right silly.

[bendyfoot]

I don't think anybody here is trying to say "ALL DOGS MUST BE WALKED ON LEASH". Similarly, no one is saying "NO DOGS HAVE TO BE EXERCISED REGULARLY".

In fact, in reading this whole thread, everyone is saying some variation of the same theme:

"Dogs enjoy and benefit from regular, stimulating activity/exercise."

There's just disagreement about how that can be accomplished. Everyone here has different ways of doing it depending on their dog's personalities, their own schedules/time availability, access to off-leash or fenced areas. But EVERYONE is saying, "yeah, I provide exercise for my dog".

Why is this thread 2 pages long?

[Sheri H]

I'll admit that I don't take my dogs on long walks every day, but they get to run around our backyard, a park or dog park and play with each other and their other doggy friends. I find that they are much happier when they can run and play freely instead of having to trudge along beside me so that's what they get.

[t.pettet]

Generalizing that 'all small breeds are hyperactive' is false. Its like saying all labs love water activities.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

one would think that a back yard to romp in is better than the dog finding themselves in a gas chamber, on the euthanasia table and then freezer.

ditto BM

Originally Posted by t.pettet

Generalizing that 'all small breeds are hyperactive' is false. Its like saying all labs love water activities.

also ditto , I know many of them who are low energy. not the case with my Pom though , but a dog his size , he would be ok with the exercise he gets inside

another example , my great dane Nelly. They say the most great danes are low energy but not her

[Equla]

My two don't get regular walks. The reason? Both are dog-selective and generally only like each other. Miko doesn't need as much leash time because we have a rather large house that he runs around in and he is small. Mansa is a pitty and if there were to be a fight, it would most definitely be blamed on him. We have numerous dogs in our neighborhood and it's not worth the risk of losing him over a dog fight to take him out... at any hour. At 75 pounds, he would pull me right off my feet if he decided he didn't like one of the dogs he saw.

On the other side of the coin, both get a LOT of exercise in the yard and in the house. Both ARE leash-trained (use it every time they go to the vet or the groomer) and actually follow at my heals at all times anyway.

For more strenuous exercise, we go to the lake and swim once a week during warm weather... March-October. We also hike once a week.

I understand that it may seem like certain dogs are never exercised because they are not out while you are out, but that may not be the case. Maybe they are walked at 2am. That's not uncommon here in Vegas. Or maybe it's a similar situation to mine and they are exercised in ways that are safe for them and other dogs.

I always say, don't judge until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes.

[14+kitties]

Y'know, I know that type of owner too. The ones who tie their dogs to a doghouse or the back door and the dogs can't go too far. I would hesitate to say that going for walkies is the least of that dog's problems.

[Golden Girls]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

I agree with you BenMax to a certain extent. While I'm certainly not saying that 'death' is a better option for an understimulated and underexcercised animal, in my line of work I see way too many animals that are so unbalanced and deprived because people don't take into account that stimulation, play, and excercise are VERY important things when taking on a dog

A perfect example of what your saying here. I took in a Boxer that was brought in to be euthanized because she had health issues; worms, coccidia and had *vet confirmed* a mild case of demodex. Trust me she has never been outside the home, nor ever walked on a leash. The owner said she cries all the time and is just a very bad dog and wants her gone Found out she was purchased as a bargain for $300 over the internet

When I picked her up there was a new tiny long haired Danshound which just didn't surprise me. They did not even say goodbye At this moment of her life a leashed walk isn't a priority but I can assure you we will find a home that will not only walk her, but socialize & stimulate her properly to help her become all that she could be! She's with me now and having alot of fun but she will go to one of our foster homes who has experience and proper time later today as I will not compromise my own dogs needs which is my priority!

These are the type of owners Melinda was speaking of sheer ignoramuses ...

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by bendyfoot

Why is this thread 2 pages long?

Why, you ask Bendy...because some people have just got to be RIGHT

[Melinda]

Originally Posted by Chris21711

Why, you ask Bendy...because some people have just got to be RIGHT

exactly

[tenderfoot]

Getting in on this way late - sorry.

Common sense needs to prevail here. If the 'neglect = abuse' podcast doesn't apply then don't take it so personally.

Yes, many people get dogs and toss them in the back yard and ignore them. I seriously doubt that anyone who spends much of their time on this site writing about dogs is ignoring their own. You care and that's why you are here.

You know the kind of caretakers you are, and when I am trying to reach out to the world about 'neglect = abuse' I have to spread a large blanket and hope those who know they don't belong under it will quickly crawl out.