Vanectyl-P

[Hailey7777]

Hi, our dog has been put on a low dose (two per day) of Vanectyl-P to help manage her allergies. She is roughly 100-105LBS. She was on it before in a much larger dose (6 per day) when she was having issues with ear infections, anal glands were causing issues, there were some issues in the crotch area as well. We now have all these under control, but the odd ear infection and crotch area issues would come back occasionally that we handled with cream and ear drops.

The issue that we were still having a hard time with were the glands. She was going in to the vet every 1.5-2 months to have them expressed. She handles it well but the poor dog just shakes and really hates the vet. They thought we should try the low dose of these meds. If it stops these issues from happening maybe we could reduce the vet visits to 2-3 times per year for her.

The issue is that these pills make her very thirsty which results in emergency situations around 4:00 in the morning where she needs out right away to pee. We try to make her ration her water, but you feel bad after they empty a bowl and then just lay down beside it. I'm not sure if it is OK to not give them more or not.

Will her body eventually adjust and stop being so thirsty? What would the minimum dose be that might still have the desired effect on her?

We have also heard about Apoquel that apparently does the same thing but without steroids and has less side effects. Has this been around for a long time and been well tested. Does anyone have any personal experience with this and whether or not it actually works? Last, and not that important, is it cost comparable to the Vanectyl-P? At the end of the day we don't really care about cost as long as it helps our dog feel better and live better, just helpful to know for budgeting reasons.

Thank you all for your help and suggestions.

[MaxaLisa]

There is no way around the fact that this is a steroid, and long term use with steroids can be pretty bad, so you want to get to the lowest possible dose. Long term use runs the risk of things like cushing's. If you can find more holistic or natural ways to deal with the allergies, that would be best. Even antihistamines, in people, can cause damage, most recently showing that they block acetylcholine and can contribute to the development of dementia down the road.

I don't know if it's an option for you, but I have my dog on allergy shots, but the oral version. It's expensive, about $350 US every 3-4 months (she is a small dog), but it has been life altering for her - she no longer breaks out in hives and other things. She still has allergy issues, but they are manageable without drugs, thanks to the immune therapy.

I'm guessing you've done all the food changes and things that might help with the allergies.

[Hailey7777]

We were actually talking about that yesterday, maybe we should just switch all of her food out, but we have no idea where to start... It sounds like chicken and beef are the two most common problems and we have already removed all of that. We switch the wet and dry food that she gets too, but those didn't work. So I guess the next step is to change all of it, we just don't know what to replace it all with.

Is removing all meat related things a good idea and just basically have her be a vegetarian? She is due back at the vet early next week so we will ask them.

Does anyone here know of any diets or food types/brands that have been successful with allergies?

Thanks for your help and advice, we appreciate it!

[Barkingdog]

I had a real hard finding the right dog food for my small dog , he had
crystals in his urine and wasn't able to pee so I had to stop feeding dried food that had yeast and wheat , I tried all kinds canned food even Kosher dog food and he couldn't eat it . He was getting constipated or diarrhea from his food. I now have on Earthborn dried dog food , he can't have any chicken , it doesn't agree with and I don't give any dog food that coloring in it . Pets don't care what color or shape their food is . Marty been eating
Earthborn for a few years now and it doing fine on it. It is grain free .

[Hailey7777]

Ok, good to know, we will look into that.

We also had issues with either constipation or diarrhea. Mineral oil usually sorted out the constipation but diarrhea was always the tricky one. Those pepto chewable tablets somewhat worked but was always a fight to get her to eat them. But after trying canned pumpkin I am a true believer.

After one of the more lengthy vet visits that really stressed her out gave her the worst case of it we had seen. Nothing had worked and it had been about two days. We figured lets try the pumpkin. It was fixed in a day and the best part is she loves the stuff. It is now part of her daily diet and she hasn't had problems since.

[Loki Love]

Vanectyl-P has a very low amount of steroids per tablet - 2mg/tablet which is a low dose for a large dog such as yours, but nonetheless still a steroid.

I've heard amazing things about Apoquel and really wanted to have my Loki on it, but it's not available here in Canada yet :/

I feel for you in regards to allergies and trying to determine the issue - we struggled for nearly a year until a low dose of prednisone finally got everything under control. We tried switching up foods, etc but nothing helped.

If you are thinking of switching up food - I'd suggest trying raw (we were already raw feeding so that left us at a bit of a loss). You can also try the golden paste which is a turmeric based paste that is supposed to help with allergies (we had no luck).

Good luck to you! I can certainly sympathize.

[zreebirt]

it works!
However you have to keep a schedule or it wears off quickly.
Our cost in Canada, is about $250 for 100 pills.
Looking at your Vanectyl-P dosage I would say you would be using a pill a day.

[Hailey7777]

Glad to hear we have it in Canada now and that it works. I don't recall what the price for the other stuff was, but $250 for 100 doesn't seem too bad if you can get away with 1 per day.

We are now making our dogs treats and food with the exception of a few things which luckily has seemed to do the trick so she is now medication free (and she also seems to love the home made stuff much better than the store bought stuff).

If we start to see any issues coming back at any point we will for sure look into Apoquel regardless of price. There is no way I would put her back on the other pills that made her so thirsty. Thanks for the update, and I am glad the new medication is working for you.

[Longblades]

Atopica has been around longer than Apoquel. With it you dose once a day for a month but then you see how many days you can separate. My boy went to every second day and topped out at every third day. That brings the cost down. We also used Van-P, the Atopica is thought to be a lesser evil.

My dog is no longer on Atopica and he's not itching. I posted a long response to Zreebirt that might help you too.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87215

Good luck

[Barkingdog]

I love it when dogs sleep on their back , it's so cute ! You have a beautiful dog.

[zreebirt]

Originally Posted by Longblades

Atopica has been around longer than Apoquel. With it you dose once a day for a month but then you see how many days you can separate. My boy went to every second day and topped out at every third day. That brings the cost down. We also used Van-P, the Atopica is thought to be a lesser evil.

My dog is no longer on Atopica and he's not itching. I posted a long response to Zreebirt that might help you too.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87215

Good luck

Atopica did nothing for us. Atopica for dogs comes in capsule form, our dog is allergic to the gelatin. We switched the Atopica for cats (liquid), the reaction wasn't as bad, but still didn't help any.
Atopica is not very cost effective. I think we were spending $350 a month, and my dog weighs 63lbs.

But again the Atopica may work great for another dog. Just not mine.

Apoquel hasn't been tested long term at our current dosage, we are currently using it "off label"

[Longblades]

Zrebirt, how long ago was that? I'm sorry the Atopica didn't work, I did see that in your own thread. I do know the gelatin is not tolerated by some dogs, that's too bad. But at 63 pounds I will guess your dog was dosed at 150 mg or less since my dog at the time was 75 pounds. The price went down each year, especially after Apoquel became available and was competition. My last batch of 30 100mg and 20 50mg was down to less than $200. It did start out a very high price. Apoquel, when I tried it for a short time, was a comparable price. Also, look on line for Atopica promotions directly from the company. It may be that they offered them when Apoquel was new but they might still do it.

[zreebirt]

Originally Posted by Hailey7777

Glad to hear we have it in Canada now and that it works. I don't recall what the price for the other stuff was, but $250 for 100 doesn't seem too bad if you can get away with 1 per day.

We are now making our dogs treats and food with the exception of a few things which luckily has seemed to do the trick so she is now medication free (and she also seems to love the home made stuff much better than the store bought stuff).

If we start to see any issues coming back at any point we will for sure look into Apoquel regardless of price. There is no way I would put her back on the other pills that made her so thirsty. Thanks for the update, and I am glad the new medication is working for you.

I have an easy dog treat recipe from the allergy specialist!
I have copied the recipe and pasted below.

Oatmeal Treats

As long as we stay within the confines of the diet, you can give treats.

You can add oatmeal to the diet as well, just to mix things up a bit or to serve as a treat:
Boil up oatmeal (this must be old fashioned, rolled or steel oats – non-flavored, non-instant) using a 1:2 ratio of oats:water and a pinch of salt. Do not add anything else to the mix.

Oatmeal Pilling Balls:
Boil up oatmeal (this must be old fashioned, rolled or steel oats – non-flavored, non-instant) using a 1:1 ratio of rolled oats and water. Drop thick oatmeal by spoonfuls onto a baking sheet and bake at 300-350°F for 20 minutes. These soft treats can then be stuffed with your pet’s medication and administered using the 3-ball technique:
1) First ball has no medication in case your pet decides to sort through the ball looking for meds
2) Second ball has medications stuffed into the middle
3) Third ball is held up at the ready just after giving the second ball so that the pet gobbles down the second ball in anticipation of getting the third ball

You can also bake oatmeal cookies:
Boil up oatmeal (this must be old fashioned, rolled or steel oats – non-flavored, non-instant) using a 1:1 ratio of rolled oats and water. Spread thick oatmeal flat onto a baking sheet and bake at 300-350°F for up to 60 minutes then leave in oven until cool (crunchy dog treat). They will not be golden or crisp (no sugar or butter added –shucks!)

Be sure to freeze or keep balls and cookies in the fridge – they will go moldy quickly.

You can also make frozen treats:
Boil up oatmeal mixture 1:1 as above then add to an ice cube tray to desired thickness and freeze. You may also include broken-up kibble to add a little extra taste. Give as a frozen chewable treat.