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  #31  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:39 PM
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I just got a reply from Chris at TO !!! He won't disclose the big secret either but I was impressed with the fast reply. .....

Thanks for your interest in the Timberwolf Organics line of pet foods.

Because of the nature of our business, the manufacturer of our pet food products is proprietary information. Although I can't tell you where it is produced, it is true our food is no longer produced at the Diamond facility, and I can tell you that it is produced in the USA.

Thanks for your question!

Chris Porch
Customer Support
Timberwolf Organics
407-802-7865
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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  #32  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:45 PM
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I just sent him another email asking why they consider it "proprietary information" when all the other premium/holistic companies have no problem with divulging the info.
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  #33  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:48 PM
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If he replies, can you just make him describe the facility? Something like, "Can you please assure me that the facility is of the highest standard and not a rendering facility or a facility that manufactures low quality dog food for other companies?"
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  #34  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 03:14 PM
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Yes, ask him what certifications the plant has organic or otherwise, is it inspected, do they test the ingredients upon arrival... Anything would be great, other than no..... I am a rebellious child, dislike the word no we won't tell you!
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  #35  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 03:19 PM
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LOL you guys......one step at a time.
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  #36  
Old March 4th, 2007, 06:59 PM
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I received another typical reply:

It is our company policy to keep this informations proprietary. In the interest of keeping this information secure from competitors, we cannot release it. I apologize for any inconvienience this may cause you.

Thanks,

Chris Porch


I emailed him again asking the above questions and also asked if the lines they use are dedicated.
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  #37  
Old March 4th, 2007, 07:10 PM
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sigh. :sad: My corporate response:
In the interest of the consumer, the information hidden proves to be more of an obstacle than an attraction. Consumers turn to brands they can trust, brands who don't seem to have something to hide, even if their product might be of lesser quality.

:sad:

Last edited by Prin; March 4th, 2007 at 07:19 PM.
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  #38  
Old March 4th, 2007, 07:43 PM
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LOL...can I have permission to use your "corporate response" if needed after my next reply?
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  #39  
Old March 4th, 2007, 07:52 PM
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The funny thing is...I think TO (Ocean Blue anyway) has changed it's formula. I bought it the nanosecond it arrived in Toronto and recall being overwhelmed by the smell of cinnamon, to the point where I was concerned it would be too much for the dawgs. I noted that the bags I bought last month and this month no longer have that powerful spice odour. Now I wish I had saved our first bag to see if the ingredients have changed or their order.
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  #40  
Old March 4th, 2007, 08:39 PM
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if i m..
the batch to my country has worms recently! Batches with expiry date - Nov'07 and Jan'08. Anyone met this problem before? i m still wondering why.....
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  #41  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:02 PM
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Mum, that's the beauty of meb's dog food ingredient thread. We have the old ingredients-- post 10 here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28957

Rainbow, feel free!
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  #42  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin View Post
If he replies, can you just make him describe the facility? Something like, "Can you please assure me that the facility is of the highest standard and not a rendering facility or a facility that manufactures low quality dog food for other companies?"
I took this from the TO faq's page (the question was about BSE), the emboldening is mine.

"In January of 2002 our plant has discontinued the inclusion of all beef, beef by products and beef fats in all formulas produced by the plant.

The meat proteins or animal products incorporated in the formulas manufactured are acquired from species specific processing plants. These species are:

1. Chicken 2. Turkey 3. Lamb from New Zealand or Australia 4. Venison from New Zealand or Australia 5. Various Fish 6. Pork 7. Chicken Fats 8. Fish Oils

Also, our plant is one of the few plants that is APHIS (Agricultural Plant Health Inspection Service) certified or the newer tougher Category III level certified. APHIS helps manufacturing plants meet all certification requirements for export for example, to the EC which is extremely difficult because of their stringent requirements of certification of all ingredients.

Therefore, there is no possibility of any beef tissue or fats included in, by design or by contamination, any products manufactured by our pet food plant."
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  #43  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by stergeR View Post
if i m..
the batch to my country has worms recently! Batches with expiry date - Nov'07 and Jan'08. Anyone met this problem before? i m still wondering why.....
Interesting. What formula?
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  #44  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stergeR View Post
if i m..
the batch to my country has worms recently! Batches with expiry date - Nov'07 and Jan'08. Anyone met this problem before? i m still wondering why.....
Do you buy yours in a store or by special order ? The bags I just picked up last weekend are Feb 2008 and the one I've opened is fine.
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  #45  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:16 PM
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mum, it might not have BEEF but that doesn't mean there aren't any dogs or cats or roadkill...

Quote:
The meat proteins or animal products incorporated in the formulas manufactured are acquired from species specific processing plants. These species are:
They're acquired from specific plants, but are they processed in specific plants? Is each formula of their food made in a meat-specific plant? I doubt it.
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  #46  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mummummum View Post
The funny thing is...I think TO (Ocean Blue anyway) has changed it's formula. I bought it the nanosecond it arrived in Toronto and recall being overwhelmed by the smell of cinnamon, to the point where I was concerned it would be too much for the dawgs. I noted that the bags I bought last month and this month no longer have that powerful spice odour. Now I wish I had saved our first bag to see if the ingredients have changed or their order.
I bought a bag of TO Wild and Natural (protein 36%) to add to the Innova regular I've been feeding. There's no cinnamon smell to it at all but Logan sure gets more excited when I open the bag as compared to the Innova.

When I fed TO before I noticed the SW Chicken & Herb had a very strong smell....more like allspice. The Dakota Bison and Wilderness Elk did too but not quite as strong as the SW Chicken & Herb. So, actually, I thought there was something wrong with the Wild & Natural because I was expecting a spicy smell. But, the dogs have been just fine with it.
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  #47  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Prin View Post
mum, it might not have BEEF but that doesn't mean there aren't any dogs or cats or roadkill...


They're acquired from specific plants, but are they processed in specific plants? Is each formula of their food made in a meat-specific plant? I doubt it.
Prin, I think you should email them.
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  #48  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:20 PM
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Well, there you go (thanks Prin !). A comparison shows they have added amaranth and taken out copper proteinate and selenium proteinate. The Omega3 drops from 1.4 to 1.3 and calcium has increased from 1,5 to 1.75. Doesn't explain the diminished cinnamon smell though and why do they list taurine twice?

Last edited by mummummum; March 4th, 2007 at 10:28 PM.
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  #49  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:24 PM
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lol because they're not perfect? Alright, rainbow. I'll email 'em... I didn't want to get blacklisted again, but I'll do it. :sad:
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  #50  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:29 PM
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Done! A concern for me is that if poultry is used in another food manufactured with the same equipment, then Boo might have serious health consequences, so I'd like to know what their lines are like, whether they're shared with other companies, etc...
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  #51  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin View Post
They're acquired from specific plants, but are they processed in specific plants? Is each formula of their food made in a meat-specific plant? I doubt it.
"The meat proteins or animal products incorporated in the formulas manufactured are acquired from species specific processing plants."

Isn't a "species specific processing plant" just that ?
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  #52  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mummummum View Post
Do you buy yours in a store or by special order ? The bags I just picked up last weekend are Feb 2008 and the one I've opened is fine.
i bought mine from stores. A couple of my forum mates experienced the scene of worms wriggling their way through those dark brown looked-oxidized-kibble as well. I couldn't find any pack with expiry date FEb 2008. Will keep a look out on that date.
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  #53  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:37 PM
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Sounds like it to me.
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  #54  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:38 PM
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lol because they're not perfect? Alright, rainbow. I'll email 'em... I didn't want to get blacklisted again, but I'll do it. :sad:
I thought you were just blacklisted at Solid Gold?
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  #55  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:39 PM
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Done! A concern for me is that if poultry is used in another food manufactured with the same equipment, then Boo might have serious health consequences, so I'd like to know what their lines are like, whether they're shared with other companies, etc...

In my last email I asked them if they had dedicated lines.
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  #56  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:48 PM
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I've just emailed the USDA. If Timberwolf claims to have AHIS in their plant then one would think that under "Access to Information", the USDA would have to confirm the name of the manufacturing plant. We'll see !
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  #57  
Old March 4th, 2007, 10:56 PM
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I've just emailed the USDA. If Timberwolf claims to have AHIS in their plant then one would think that under "Access to Information", the USDA would have to confirm the name of the manufacturing plant. We'll see !
Does the States have the same "Access to Information" laws that we do? If so, that just might work.
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  #58  
Old March 4th, 2007, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mummummum View Post
"The meat proteins or animal products incorporated in the formulas manufactured are acquired from species specific processing plants."

Isn't a "species specific processing plant" just that ?
Yeah, if the food has venison in it, then the venison will come from a venison factory. Sure. But then where does the venison go? If they make Ol' Roy with dogs and cats using certain equipment, then shut them down, reload the mixers with TO ingredients, it's hardly species specific anymore. But we'll just have to see if either rainbow or I get a response...

Good luck with the USDA though. I hope they can help out.
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  #59  
Old March 4th, 2007, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by stergeR View Post
i bought mine from stores. A couple of my forum mates experienced the scene of worms wriggling their way through those dark brown looked-oxidized-kibble as well. I couldn't find any pack with expiry date FEb 2008. Will keep a look out on that date.
What formula of TO are you feeding ? What has your store done for you ? Are they going to get feedback from TO as to why that shipment was infested ?
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  #60  
Old March 5th, 2007, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Prin View Post
Yeah, if the food has venison in it, then the venison will come from a venison factory. Sure. But then where does the venison go? If they make Ol' Roy with dogs and cats using certain equipment, then shut them down, reload the mixers with TO ingredients, it's hardly species specific anymore. But we'll just have to see if either rainbow or I get a response...

Good luck with the USDA though. I hope they can help out.
Ahhh... the "joys" of semantics. I would refer to that as a manufacturing plant (where the ingredients are assembled/ extrusion takes place etc etc )rather than a processing plant where I see the rendering and meat-to-meal taking place. But, hey what do I know about kibble ?

The bottom line is a concern about mixing on a single line! And hopefully one or all of us will get an answer.
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