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  #61  
Old March 4th, 2006, 01:08 PM
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hey les.... when you take ONE sentence out of an entire post and analyse it like that, you are ignoring the context of the statement and twisting its meaning. IMO that is offensive to me.

i personally do not want to offend anyone BUT it is my opinion and my right to express it. if you don't like it, move on.
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  #62  
Old March 4th, 2006, 01:14 PM
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I agree Solid Gold makes a good product but it did not work for Buddy he had the worst gas and I found his stool to loose. But I know others who swear by it. I think it is a matter of trial and error as well as education to find the best food for your dog. I would prefer to feed raw but it would not work for me and Bud. But I would never feed wet food as a steady diet either I give Bud a couple of cans for a treat but besides cost it does nothing for the health of their teeth. So I agree feed the best you can afford and give you pet lots of love. My first dog lived to 17 years old and ate Gaines Burgers (total garbage food) we did not know any better but then again most people did not at that time. Let me also say she was never sick a day until she turned 17 and got cancer.
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  #63  
Old March 4th, 2006, 01:19 PM
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Whole Dog Journal did an article a few years back on why canned is better than kibble if you decide to use processed food.
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  #64  
Old March 4th, 2006, 01:26 PM
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I'm not ignoring the context of it .. it says kibble is bad and if you feed Ol'Roy or Purina you should give your dog to someone who can do better.

What is the meaning that I missed? Maybe you should be more clear what you mean instead of making a statement like that if you don't mean it.

Just like it's your right to express your opinion, it's my right to express mine and I don't have to "move on" if I don't agree with you.

Personally, I would rather see a dog loved, exercised, taken to the vet and just cared for - that to me, is more important then the kind of food you feed.

I like to read these posts because I am having a hard time finding a food that works for my dogs but I can't be quiet when I see a statement like that made.
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  #65  
Old March 4th, 2006, 02:33 PM
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The truth is there are no limits. Ol'Roy might be good enough for some people, but might be trash to others. Holistic kibble might be exactly what some people want in a food for their dogs, and other people might hate it too. Even with raw. You might feed your dog scraps from the butcher at $1/lb, but other people might find that disgusting and feed only organic to their pets. And still others think any meat at all is just disgusting, and we shouldn't be farming it at all, and would feed their dogs a vegan diet. Where is the limit? There is none. So stop judging.

You can't decide what food I will feed my dogs, and you can't even judge how well my dogs are doing on a food because you have never met them or seen them. How can you say my dogs don't have healthy teeth? Have you seen them?? No. Don't assume things, just because you don't believe in kibble.

So only kibble-fed dogs raid the trash? Well, then Jemma and Boo must not be on kibble since I can leave food out wherever and whenever I want and they don't touch it. The garbage is out, easily accessed and has never been ravaged. Why do dogs beg? It has nothing to do with their nutrition requirements. It has to do with reinforcing the behavior. I bet I can make any raw fed dog beg. What they're fed is not the cause of the begging.

Quote:
I personally do not want to offend anyone BUT it is my opinion and my right to express it. if you don't like it, move on.
Judging people for giving kibble is just as bad as the link that somebody posted a week or so ago where a vet called raw feeders "cult-like". Same judgement in a different direction. Opinions are one thing, but judgements are another. To be clear: saying "I don't like kibble" an opinion. Saying "people who feed kibble are stupid and incapable of owning a pet" is a judgement.
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  #66  
Old March 4th, 2006, 03:51 PM
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i have no clue what you people are talking about. who's judging whom or what? go back and read my ENTIRE post, you are obviously all missing something if you think i said all kibble feeders were bad. "selective reading" = judging too, you know. (hint: look at the first sentence in paragraph 2!!) - shame on you for choosing to ignore that part of my post and attack me on everything else.

and if a person chooses to feed a bland, dry, boring kibble to their dogs day in, day out for the rest of their lives, at least have some pity and offer REAL food mixed in some of the time. and the point of feeding a high-quality holistic kibble vs supermarket crap (purina, iams, etc) is that it costs the same or even less since you feed less of it and animals tend to get less sick less often on "better" kibble. i have read this statement numerous times on this forum

ALSO, assuming that dogs have no interest or desire for REAL food ("it's only behavioral") is not only ignorant, it's damaging propaganda, no doubt the product of years of brainwashing by the pet food corporations and idiot vets sponsored by them. I have no doubt your dogs are all loved and very well cared for (that's why people are on this forum in the first place, right?), but it could always be better. sure there are those miracle (and rare) dogs that live on gains burgers and pukanuba until age 15 without any health issues, but those dogs are the EXCEPTION and NOT the norm. oh and imagine how long these dogs WOULD have lived on a proper diet! 20, 25 years? that is like saying that just because George Burns lived till his late 90's drinking and smoking every day, that it is safe to drink and smoke like that and what's the big deal. we're talking statistics here, the law of averages. pets on crappy food, statistically, are sicker animals than those on healthier foods. you cannot debate that.

i repeat: it is my opinion that people who are too cheap to feed their pets good food should NOT have the right to own them. get a hamster, get a fish, whatever. but to choose a 35 lbs bag of $9.99 Ol Roy from Walmart and then drop $40 on a case of beer and a bottle of whiskey on the same shopping trip is just moronic. THAT was the point i was trying to make all along. i hope i've cleared that up now for those that requested an explanation.
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Last edited by technodoll; March 4th, 2006 at 04:01 PM.
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  #67  
Old March 4th, 2006, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
ALSO, assuming that dogs have no interest or desire for REAL food ("it's only behavioral") is not only ignorant, it's damaging propaganda, no doubt the product of years of brainwashing by the pet food corporations and idiot vets sponsored by them.
That's twisting it too. I never said they had no interest. I said my dogs don't eat garbage. I said my dogs are not lacking nutrients to the point where they are driven to eat garbage. I said dogs only beg if you encourage them to.

And it's not as simple as that. When you're up all night with a dog puking every 20 minutes, and you FINALLY find a food that stops that, do you really think that you're going to start messing with it again? A lot of people here are having trouble with their dogs and are just trying to find a way to fix it. Sometimes dogs simply cannot handle a diet of variety or of raw. If I add anything to Boo's food, chances are he'll either have raging diarrhea or start puking for a week. Hardly an act of kindness. And their jubilation in the morning when I feed them suggests their food is not bland.

A very loved dog doing well on ol'roy, when there are hundreds of thousands of homeless dogs on petfinder, is not a bad thing, IMO. There are far worse things you could do to a dog than to feed supermarket crap food. And feeding ol'roy or whatever doesn't tell you anything about the care the dog gets either. It doesn't tell you if the dogs have vet check-ups or anything about that. Some people just don't know what they're feeding and others can't afford to feed better on a daily basis. That doesn't make them dead-beats or bad owners. Just as you could not believe that I can't afford to feed raw, sometimes I have a hard time believing others can't afford better kibble. But they can't. That's just the way it is when families are counting the pennies. And it doesn't mean they're spending it on "beer and popcorn" either.



But does any of this mean raw-feeding people can look down on holistic kibble-feeding people, and both of the above are right to look down on crap kibble-feeders? No. There are differences both in cultures and in individuals when it comes to pet care.

Is a dog on ol'roy suffering? Not necessarily. A dog on any food, be it raw, kibble or canned, who has an allergy to it is suffering. It has nothing to do with the food, but with the owner. Some people I have met who swear by ProPlan are the most devoted dog owners out there. Some dogs do so well on crap kibble too. You'd never know what they were eating by the look of them. Sure that might not be the norm, but then it comes down to the owner again. If a dog is not doing well on ANY food, it's up to the owner to take action. But if the dog is doing great, like I said, why mess with a good thing?

The thing is, you feed raw because you feel like it. Because you think it's good. But if Dakotah had allergies to everything, runny stools every other dump, and all night vomitting, raw might not be working. Then what? You just want your baby to be OK. You just want him to eat SOMETHING and be able to digest it. Some dogs are more sensitive than others.

In the end, it's like saying that a person who eats prepared foods and eats candy more often than they should is incapable, and probably should leave having kids to somebody else, while somebody, like a vegan, who watches what she eats and knows all the sources of her foods is better mom material. The food is not the deciding factor, IMO.

Sure you'll have a healthier dog if you feed better food, but how much healthier? Will you really notice the difference? It is so rare that a person feeding holistic food will switch to raw without an allergy/intolerance problem, so how will we know the difference in a healthy dog on holistic who is switched to raw?

Last edited by Prin; March 4th, 2006 at 04:34 PM. Reason: tweaked all around...
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  #68  
Old March 4th, 2006, 04:18 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Oh and I found this on Sissy from Solid Gold:
Quote:
Reason: FDA had been harassing McGill over labels on her holistic pet food products. In March 1990, an FDA agent seized products from her store without a search warrant and shut down her store. On July 12, 1990, after being indicted, she chose a jury trial. Upon appearing for her trial, she was clapped into leg irons, put into a Maximum Security Federal Prison for 179 days, and fined $10,000. While incarcerated she suffered a near fatal stroke.

Outcome: McGill sued the Department of Justice and won a victory on Feb. 20, 1992. She expects to file a $25,000,000 lawsuit against the FDA.
The tables have turned.
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  #69  
Old March 4th, 2006, 06:26 PM
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Right on Prin.
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  #70  
Old March 4th, 2006, 06:37 PM
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Did she file?Any updates since 1992?
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  #71  
Old March 4th, 2006, 08:29 PM
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prin... dakotah is not raw-fed... i have been trying to tell you that... only my female is on raw by HER choice, she will starve rather than eat kibble. and i applaud your choice to put your maximum budget $ possible on feeding your furkids, because you cared enough to educate yourself on what goes in their bodies. it's the other folks i have a beef with, those who don't care - ya know?
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  #72  
Old March 5th, 2006, 12:02 AM
Prin Prin is offline
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The ones who don't care would show it in more than just their food choice. They'd show it in the vet care (like the ones that show up here: "my dog's intestines are on the floor. How much pepto bismol will make him better? I don't have enough money to go to the vet. Please reply ASAP!") or even in the maintenance (i.e. disgustingly long nails, greasy nasty fur, etc).

Honestly, I've educated my dad a gazillion times on food choices and he still swears by proplan. And his dog is doing so well on it. His fur is thick, he has endless energy, etc etc. Jemma and Boo would suffer on it, but if I had an easier dog, would I be able to feed it a crappier food? Probably not. After learning about all this stuff, there are some ingredients that I wouldn't want my dog to smell, let alone eat (like "meat meal" or "animal digest"...). Yes, dogs in the wild eat the innerds of their prey, but our dogs are not wild, and the wild ones aren't given much choice. They eat to survive. Our dogs eat to get fat.

We all agree that we should all be doing the best we can for our pets, but what our best is varies so greatly.

Why isn't Dakotah raw fed? I thought he was getting raw with kibble...

LL1, I haven't found anything else, but I'll keep looking.
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  #73  
Old March 5th, 2006, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Why isn't Dakotah raw fed? I thought he was getting raw with kibble...
the little brat will only eat raw once or twice per week, so i don't even offer it more than that anymore. i keep hoping he will take example from his sister but so far, no such luck It's not common but some dogs just don't take to raw no matter what, they are attracted to the strong smell of kibble (raw meat is pretty bland unless you sear it) - even if i ditched all kibble from the house, he would eventually eat but never with gusto. that's just him, drives us crazy but we can't change his personality. if he was ever lost in the woods he would STARVE!

the little one, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. she is more wolf-like, is already an amazing hunter and doesn't even like cookies & treats, will spit kibble out and not eat for days rather than eat the stuff. she really loves her raw food.

crazy household eh? LOL
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  #74  
Old March 5th, 2006, 01:52 AM
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All you need is a vegan dog, and you're set!
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  #75  
Old March 5th, 2006, 09:51 AM
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I know this has been a heated subject, but I did want to add that my childhood dog lived to be 18 (we had to put him down because of his cancerous tumors and loss of bowel movements). He lived to be 18 because of the love he got from us, not because of his food. My parents didn't know better either and fed him Purina One and some kind of unhealthy canned food. We gave him lots of love, took him to the vet if he wasn't feeling well, a warm house in winter, a cool house in summer, lots of socialization, and endless cuddles. I really agree with Prin that the food quality isn't always the case sick dogs. It's alll about their environment. There are too many homeless animals out there that aren't living in good environments to worry about what food they have. We feed Jesse Nutro -- both her kibble and her wet. She loves it and doesn't have any side affects to it so it works for her and it's within our budget. The move we just made put a huge dent in our pockets that we have to crawl out of and honestly it's what we can do now. I know there are foods that are better and I know there are foods that are worse, but we aren't dropping $40 on whiskey and beer (Though I do drop $6 every once in a while for some Smirnoff Twisted ). It doesn't change how we feel about Jesse and we aren't going to give her to a better home because right now a higher classed food isn't in our budget. It would be different if we were eating filet mignon every night and she was getting crap food. Her home is with us and it will stay like that regardless of the food we give her. That's all I have to say.
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  #76  
Old March 5th, 2006, 08:00 PM
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Not everyone has the time or knowledge to learn about dog food. They get information from their breeder, the pet shop or from the vet and they follow it. They follow the information they receive and think they are doing the best for their pet.
I don't think any of us have the right to dictate to anyone what they should or should not feed their dog. We can offer advice, tell them about our experiences with a particular food but they are the only ones that can decide what they can afford to feed their pet and should not be made to feel guilty if all they can afford is a grocery store brand.
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