Really Need Some Help

[Kismutt]

I have been wanting to ask this for a while now, and with the new thread going on regarding chasing "newbies" away, I thought this would be a good opportunity.

I have been working on an assignment for 8 months and I am almost there!!

I am collecting data of pups that are purchased from "various" petstores in Ontario. This is for Ontario only in this project. Quebec will be next (maybe).

When a "newbie" comes to this site and states they bought a pup from a petstore, can some of you jump in really quickly and ask the poster some specific questions? It will need to be done in a pm so the petstore etc. is not named in the open forum. What you can ask them is:

1) What petstore did you purchase from?
2) What breed?
3) *IF* it is registered with what Registry? Registration Number?
4) Breeders/Brokers Name
5) Purchase Price
6) DATE OF BIRTH (very very important)

I know this is a tall order but it would help me so much, and I would be forever in debit to you

I know 99.9% of you on this site are very against petstore bought dogs and BYB's, and this is a way for you to help in a BIG WAY.

I need only 49 more to complete this assignment. I have been able to gather this information from 6 newbie posters on this site. The others were scared away before I seen their post, and have not responded to my pm, because they have not returned to the site. Their pm's have been unread.

If you get this information, you can privately email it to me at kismutt@rogers.com

examples of Registry's:

UKCI - Universal Kennel Club International
WWKC - World Wide Kennel Club
NAPDR - North American Purebred Dog Registry
DRA - Dog Registry of America
APR - American Purebred Registry
WKC - World Kennel Club
FIC - Federation of Internation Canines
ARU - Animal Registry Unlimited
UABR - United All Breed Registry
CRCS - Canine Registration and Certification Services
NPR - National Kennel Club
APRI - America's Pet Registry Inc.
CKC - Canadian Kennel Club
CKC - Continental Kennel Club
AKC - American Kennel Club
ACA - American Canine Association

** Please - if they say CKC, ask them specifically is that "Continental Kennel Club or the Canadian Kennel Club"???

Thank you so much pets.ca members

[mona_b]

I just need to comment about your question #4.

There may be a problem with that one.MANY petstores will not divulge this info.And trust me I have tried.I have gone into the one petstore in the mall I frequent.I go in there to try and educate the people BEFORE they decide to buy.I do let them know where these pups come from.I have played the dumb blonde(LOL) when asking questions to the ones working there.Then when I let then finish answering my questions,it's then that I say my speach to them.They will NOT give out the info on the so called breeders.They also have a sign stating that the pups are from a "hybred"breeder.And stated the difference in breeders.Those pups are NOT registered at this petstore.Which I have had to comment and show them a paper from the CKC(canadian)that it is ilegal under the CKC Pedigree act to sell unregistered pups.This,in the eyes of the CKC means the dog is NOT purebred.Trust me,they didn't like what I had to say.To bad.And this is why you can't register your dog if it did not come from registered parents.As it is ilegal to sell pups at one price for CKC papers,and another price without them.And I know of a few who sell unregistered pups.One pet store in Toronto was selling a Shep/Collie for $899...

Once again,no petstore(that I know of) will tell you where they got their pups from.All you will get out of them is that they are a local breeder.

[Luba]

What is the assignment for exactly? What are you doing with the information when you collect it?

Pet stores never devuldge truthfully where they get the information from.

Instead of us all asking where when who why for your assignment purposes, why don't you approach them directly yourself in PM. Give them the link to this thread and ask them to contact you directly.

Working in rescue you become aware that byb's puppy mills and pet stores tend to produce false information. Including nice little certificates full of B.S and a nice bright star or some sort of seal to make it look official.

[Kismutt]

I know what you are saying, and you are right. They are not going to divulge this information, because you have not bought the pup. I would be very surpirsed if the did LOL!!

When you have paid for the pup they HAVE to provide the paperwork, registered or not. If they did not provide the purchaser with the paperwork, they will be out of buisness very very quickly That is very rare, because that is the quickest and easiest way to charge the petstore owner.

[Luba]

What I am telling you is the produce false (fraudulent) documentation.

Also, what is the assignment for?

[Kismutt]

Originally Posted by Luba

What is the assignment for exactly? What are you doing with the information when you collect it?.

When all the data is collected, and the assignment complete, I will share this information.

Originally Posted by Luba

Pet stores never devuldge truthfully where they get the information from.?

see post to mona.

Originally Posted by Luba

Instead of us all asking where when who why for your assignment purposes, why don't you approach them directly yourself in PM. Give them the link to this thread and ask them to contact you directly..?

I have and I do when I see the post. Sometimes it is too late, and the OP is gone. You do not have to participate in this, so just ignore this request if it is bothering you. I have asked a favor, if you don't approve, just ignore my post.

Originally Posted by Luba

Working in rescue you become aware that byb's puppy mills and pet stores tend to produce false information. Including nice little certificates full of B.S and a nice bright star or some sort of seal to make it look official.

I am very aware of this. And the false information is every bit as important. I am getting the feeling you don't approve of my assignment. Just ignore it, and move to another thread please. and let others that want to help go about it. Let me worry about the how's, where's etc.

Thanks Luba

[Safyre]

The pet store where my bestfriend got her pup gave us the breeder name.. as it was on the papers that we rcvd with the puppy.
believe me I called her and let her know what i thought of her (while dogs barked and children creamed in the background)
All of Kismutts questions can be answered, by someone who has purchased a puppy. Kismutt, how long have you been doing the research, and is a puppy purchased over a year ago OK for your study?

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by Kismutt

I know what you are saying, and you are right. They are not going to divulge this information, because you have not bought the pup. I would be very surpirsed if the did LOL!!

It doesn't matter if I bought a pup or not.They will NOT tell you were it came from.This is the point I am trying to make.All they will tell you is that it is a local breeder like I have said before.

As for the paperwork,it does NOT tell you where the pup came from.This is why the majority of the pet stores do NOT sell registered pups.It will tell you only that a vet has seen the pup and what shots.And if you are wondering HOW I know this,well when I was living in T.O a friend of a friend DID buy a pup at the pet store.So this was the info I got.And yes I did give this person the third degree for doing it....

[Kismutt]

Safyre - thank you for coming to me in a positive way. I really appreciate it and you are kind. I will send you a private email, and we can talk??

[Kismutt]

Originally Posted by mona_b

It doesn't matter if I bought a pup or not.They will NOT tell you were it came from.This is the point I am trying to make.All they will tell you is that it is a local breeder like I have said before.
As for the paperwork,it does NOT tell you where the pup came from.

Ok. Mona, you win. You are right, I am wrong. Please move to another thread now. Thanks!!

[Luba]

Kismutt it's not that I don't approve of the assignment, I was inquiring more information about it, the purpose, reasoning etc... I'm not sure why you didn't want to share that to begin with. Why so secretive?

People can't help if they don't know the cause.

[Safyre]

It shouldn't matter why she needs this info, she has already stated it is for an assignment, I feel that is more than enough info to do someone a favour.
People can help without knowing the cause, as they can simply state:
A member here is asking for the following information for an assignment about pet store puppies and then ask the questions Kismutt asked. If you don't approve of doing that, then don't. But negativity is not needed.

[Luba]

Asking for clarification and information is not negativity. If u Safyre want to participate in something w/o knowing more about it...thats your decision.


I am asking for clarity from Kismutt not yourself.

[Safyre]

Your posts come off negative, when you ask continue to ask a question that she has already stated she is unable to answer until all material is collected. using words phrases such as "I'm not sure why you didn't want to share that to begin with. Why so secretive?" reads as suspicious, which would be very negative for anyone reading who might have been willing to help.

[Luba]

Safyre your posts are coming off irritating. I'll wait a response from Kismutt, this is her project, not yours.

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by Kismutt

Ok. Mona, you win. You are right, I am wrong. Please move to another thread now. Thanks!!

OMG..WTH.

First off I will not be told to move to another thread...Thank You.

Second...I gave you info on what I know,and so did Safyre.The pet store her best friend went to did have papers of where the breeder was located.And the pet stores I know did not.So why the comment about I am right and you are wrong?She gave you her experience and so did I.So what's the problem here?Who's being negative here?

Safyre,I don't think anything Luba said was negative at all.....

I was going to ask the same question as Luba.If questions are asked about a cause,I definately would like to know what the cause is for.It's only natural.Wouldn't you think?And I am sorry,but to me it does matter why the info is needed.As I am sure it may matter to others.

We have had a few come on here needing info on certain subjects pertaining to pets,they had no problem letting us know what the assignment or cause was for.

[Safyre]

IMO she might be trying to protect her project, could be slander if she explained it, this is why I do not push for the info.
I think if you don't want to assist someone, you don't, but then why bother them about it? Don't make sense to me.

[Luba]

Slander to explain oneself ...what an interesting concept

[toby's tracy]

If you get this information, you can privately email it to me at kismutt@rogers.com

It seems to me that if anyone has any questions they could email kismutt directly.

Let me know when and if you start this study in Quebec, Kismutt!

[lezzpezz]

Just my opinion, but I would think that Kismutt is doing something rather pro-active in preventing animal abuse, as, by reading another recent thread,
" Too All Of You Posting AGAINST buying mixed or hybrid dogs.... ",
it would appear that she is on to something BIG and working behind the scenes to fascilitate the end of puppymills and BYB's in Ontario. If this is the case, BRAVO, and carry on with your project and go get 'em . I understand your need to keep your cards close to your chest, as it may cause the unravelling of all of the hard work and research you have been doing, Kismutt. This is just me speculating, here.

Unfortunately, I cannot assist you with your questionaire, as I have not purchased an animal from a pet store. Hopefully you will find the info that you need and it will serve a great purpose.

[Kismutt]

Safyre, Toby's Tracy, Lesserpezzer thank you for your kind words.

Thank you to those that emailed, it is very very appreicated. and just know that your information is very valuable.

[Luba]

Kismutt know that many more would be willing to assist should you choose to provide additional information. You may be limiting yourself. I'm not sure why you ignored my question but, if you'd rather pm the information to me I'd be appreciative.

Nobody was being negative, but getting involved with something that may interest someone, is only natural to want to know more about it.

[Angeleyes1437]

Kismutt... I would definitely help you at the drop of a dime if I lived close by!

Unfortunately I am in a WHOLE other country. I can get you PLENTY of info over here if you ever need it. And.... for the record... I'm not sure about how things are done in Canada but in the USA when a puppy is sold from a pet store it is VERY illegal not to have the "breeders" address on the papers. They give you ALL of the information.

I can even give you the address and name of the puppymill my sister's dog was purchased at... she didn't know about puppymill's at the time. They give you the parents registered names and info as well. Is this how it works in Canada?

As for the newbies.. I will be sure to PM them with your questions and forward any information I can get!

~Christina*

[Kismutt]

Originally Posted by Angeleyes1437

Kismutt... I would definitely help you at the drop of a dime if I lived close by!

Unfortunately I am in a WHOLE other country. I can get you PLENTY of info over here if you ever need it. And.... for the record... I'm not sure about how things are done in Canada but in the USA when a puppy is sold from a pet store it is VERY illegal not to have the "breeders" address on the papers. They give you ALL of the information.

Thank you so much Angeleyes. Yes, it is the same in Canada in that the petstore has to provide the information when the pup is paid for.

Originally Posted by Angeleyes1437

I can even give you the address and name of the puppymill my sister's dog was purchased at... she didn't know about puppymill's at the time.?.

This is very helpful too. I can submit this to the into our U.S. database for cross references. You can privately email me.

Originally Posted by Angeleyes1437

They give you the parents registered names and info as well. Is this how it works in Canada?.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Angeleyes1437

As for the newbies.. I will be sure to PM them with your questions and forward any information I can get!:

Again, thank you so much, and all information is kept very confidential, and you have my word on that.

[Angeleyes1437]

No prob Kismutt. I will get the info from my sister and email you asap.

[Prin]

Wow, this thread became so negative. How can you guys put such a nasty spin on a thread about someone researching puppymills? Wow. Give it a rest. What harm can she do with the puppymill info? Crank call them? Steal their identities? Do they not deserve it? Are you really going to protect the interests of the puppy mills?

If you can get the name, give it to her. If not, then don't. You don't have to argue and attack both Kismutt and Safyre about it. That's totally unwarranted.

Kismutt, I'm in Qc, but if you ever start here, I'll hunt and gather.

[Angeleyes1437]

Originally Posted by Prin

Wow, this thread became so negative. How can you guys put such a nasty spin on a thread about someone researching puppymills? Wow. Give it a rest. What harm can she do with the puppymill info? Crank call them? Steal their identities? Do they not deserve it? Are you really going to protect the interests of the puppy mills?

If you can get the name, give it to her. If not, then don't. You don't have to argue and attack both Kismutt and Safyre about it. That's totally unwarranted.

Kismutt, I'm in Qc, but if you ever start here, I'll hunt and gather.

I agree Prin. This is the answer to why I started my "rude" thread! LOL

We need to take it easy on one another

[Luba]

Actually I believe it is I and Mona that are being attacked simply for asking questions and wanting additional information.

We did not bring negativity to this thread, that is simply nonsensical.

I'm out of this thread, it appears as though thats for the best any how!

Oh no don't ask any questions for fear of having someone suggest you're rude, negative or other. EEk I'm out!

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by Angeleyes1437

I'm not sure about how things are done in Canada but in the USA when a puppy is sold from a pet store it is VERY illegal not to have the "breeders" address on the papers. They give you ALL of the information.

See but the thing here,and I'm talking in Ontario is that there are quite a few pet stores who are not selling the pups with papers.And the pet stores I am talking about are the ones who sell them as "Hybred" and they come from what they call local breeders.So unfortunately there is no way to find out where or who the breeder is.

As for the registration papers,yes they do have the breeders address.But they do not have the Sires address.Only the kennel name...I just checked my dogs registration papers... ...Dogs can't be registered without the breeders address anyways.This I know as I have been a member with the CKC for a little over 20 years.And we have been trying everything in our power to shut down every puppy mill and BYB.

Also,did you know that these puppy mills will lie when filling out the papers?They register more puppies than are actually born in each litter to receive extra registration slips to pass out with unregisterable puppies.

Prin,no one is arguing here.I gave info on what I know about some of the pet stores..You consider that arguing?And Luba wanting to know why this info is needed is also considered arguing??

[Kismutt]

Toby's Tracy and Prin: If Quebec is next, would you really be interested in collecting some data? It is very tedious, time consuming work. But it serves several purposes.

Logistically, it is not feasible for me to head up the Quebec assignment, but I would be very involved, and if you wanted to collect any information and submit it to me that would be wonderful.

Ontario keeps me very busy, and Ontario is a drop in the bucket compared to Quebec, so for me to think this far ahead, makes me tired thinking about it. Even if you have information now, it will always be useful.

Every person that helps even a bit contributes to the big picture

Thank you all for offering your help