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  #31  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:01 AM
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Interesting thread! Personally, with all the recalls, I think raw is the way to go-HOWEVER, I have a shih-poo with alot of beard and moustache and I wont feed raw because we let her "kiss" us, face and all and I simply can't be bothered disinfecting her face every time she eats! I also like the idea of having kibble (evo) out for her to eat when she is hungry as she has never been a great eater. I also suppliment with some home cooked at dinnertime (which I recently started doing-prior I used innova canned) as my husband cannot eat his dinner without "sharing" with our puppy-so I make up a plate of home cooked for him to give her knowing that table scraps are not the best. This seems to solve the problem with hubby and at least I know what is in her wet food!
  #32  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:04 AM
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Minnow's not on raw or homecooked because she flat out refuses...

Dodger was on kibble as a puppy (because I was worried about balancing everything out when he was growing)... He's on raw now but I still buy a bag of Innova/Orijen once in a while to use as training treats.
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  #33  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:18 AM
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I'm anti BARF. I'm pro raw though

BARF diet has far too much bone, veggies & supplements.

Keep it simple, feed a variety of meats and supplement if the dog needs them, like Fish oil if you cant feed fish.

The whole mess thing, not an issue. From day 1 I taught Rosco to eat on a towel. He stays on that towel when eating. If what hes eating rolls off, a quick "on your towel" and hes grabs whatever and places it back on the towel. Then i just toss the towel in the wash. Simple. Cleaning is simple. you just keep your house clean. No different then if i was preparing a meal for myself. I wash my hands and clean up after myself.
Convenience, again, simple. I take out what I'm going to feed that day and toss it in the sink in some cold water. t thaws, i place on a towel and he eats. Cant get much simpler then that.
Cost..I'm not spending any more on a raw diet then i am on kibble. Less actually.

Now, do i think all dogs can do great on Raw? yes and no. With enough time maybe all could, but not all can so easily. I think Meb did a great job with finding a diet that works with Buster. I don't think anyone thinks you're a bad owner. I know i don't.

Raw is not new here. Kibble is. Kibble has only been around for 60 odd years. Before that it was raw/home-cooked. I'm not anti kibble, but i know exactly what it is. A way to get rid of by products that humans don't eat/need. With that said, there are some quality kibbles being made now. Much better ingredients, quality, etc but I still don't feel that kibble is a natural diet to our dogs & cats.

Finally, i think everyone should feed their pets what ever they feel is best for them. but know WHAT your feeding.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938

Last edited by Ford; April 23rd, 2007 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Rudeness and slander
  #34  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:46 AM
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Woohooo! back on track -

When we first got Gomez as a puppy, the breeder told us to give him little balls of raw beef mince for one of his meals - he was puking and pooing like crazy - off the raw meat and onto Burns' kibble and has been healty ever since, so we did get him form the start, but his little system just could not digest it apparently...

As for the fur and all... I had not thought of that, it would make sense, wouldn't it? Maybe all dogs miss a good mouth full of fur and blood?

Lissa, great example of how some dogs "do" and some dogs "don't"! You can't force one to eat raw if they don't want to!

Scott, the stuff that rolls off the towel, do you disinfect the floor afterwards every time? and do you disinfect your washing machine every time?

Mind you a keep a VERY clean house, and I can't imagine trying to disinfect everything twice a day....


As an aside, in a lot of Latin countries people just feed their dogs whatever they are eating for dinner, no adjustments, so if it's a spicy enchilada and beans and rice they have, it's what the dog gets, cultural differences also play a big role on this subject....
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  #35  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:02 AM
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Hi great thread! Yesterday I bought some elk & beef "balls" from a farmer/rancher who raises them about 2 hours northeast of here. She raises hormone free, gov't inspected, organic. My butcher at the farmer's market also sells beef & chicken that is hormone free, etc BARF. Hmm I was wondering Scott how do you know if your prey model raw is hormone free? not feedlot? I could buy prey model from the butcher but why?
  #36  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by meb999 View Post
WEll, I know I'll get told that I didn'T «DO IT RIGHT» (don't bother telling me, because I've heard it before) but here's my reason :

It made my dog VIOLENTLY ill. VIOLENTLY -- I mean emergency vet appointement violent.

I've tried on 3 seperate occasions, doing everything that you're supposed to do -- the supplements, the fasting, etc etc. I've tried with 2 different meat sources....

It's just not for us.

I'm pretty fed up of being made to feel like a bad owner because I feed kibble...one of the reasons I'm not here as much.....

Aww Mebs You are a great owner, and there is no doubt in my mind that you would do anything for your pets!! (and please come here more often)

That being said, to each his own.
Don't judge peoples love for their pets based on what they feed?!

IMO a bad owner is someone who abuses, ties up outside, dumps,doesn't feed at all, doesn't go to vets when needed and doesn't spay of neuter. Not what they feed their pet/s.

My cat's eat dry kibble (always 2 large bowls available at all times) and a table spoon of canned at dinner time as a treat. They also get plenty of leftover's

Just wondering, do all these strict RAW feeders practise what they preach?
Do you all eat a strictly healthy diet? No junk foods what so ever? no processed foods? If not then doesn't that make you a hypocrite when you preach to kibble feeders? JMO
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  #37  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happycats View Post

Just wondering, do all these strict RAW feeders practise what they preach?
Do you all eat a strictly healthy diet? No junk foods what so ever? no processed foods? If not then doesn't that make you a hypocrite when you preach to kibble feeders? JMO
Personally, I don't eat fried foods, I don't eat fast food, I don't eat sugary foods. I eat a lot of fruit, veggies, lean protein and whole grains. But that's me.

BUT.

It's completely different. It is my body, and I can do whatever the hell I want to it, but my dog's body is not mine, and I have no right to give her crap. I believe that raw is the best food I can give her (with some supplemented cooked schtuff) and that's what I give her.
It's just like parents often feed their kids the healthy organic food, and then sneak themselves a cookie or two when their kids aren't looking. Your body and your kids or your pets bodies are different things, what right do I have to poisen my dog?
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  #38  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by happycats View Post
Just wondering, do all these strict RAW feeders practise what they preach?
Do you all eat a strictly healthy diet? No junk foods what so ever? no processed foods? If not then doesn't that make you a hypocrite when you preach to kibble feeders? JMO
I definately do not - I eat junk all the time ! But I look at is I choose to eat unhealthy foods, Dodger doesn't have that choice so I need to feed him what I know is best (not what he thinks is best - if that were the case, he'd eat Ol'roy)... I don't think it makes me a hypocrite at all - I know better, Dodger does not! I think it should only matter that I practice what I preach when it comes to a canine diet, not mine!

Gomez - Minnow is a cat but it still apply's - not all pets are meant for raw.
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  #39  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Lissa View Post
I definately do not - I eat junk all the time ! But I look at is I choose to eat unhealthy foods, Dodger doesn't have that choice so I need to feed him what I know is best (not what he thinks is best - if that were the case, he'd eat Ol'roy)... I don't think it makes me a hypocrite at all - I know better, Dodger does not! I think it should only matter that I practice what I preach when it comes to a canine diet, not mine!

Gomez - Minnow is a cat but it still apply's - not all pets are meant for raw.
OMG not only am I a horrible pet owner (feed kibble)
I'm a horrible parent too!! (my son is a chocoholic like me):sad:

Just shoot me!
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  #40  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:48 AM
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A friend of mine once told me "if you ate half as well as your dogs do, you'd feel alot better". I took her advice and changed the way I eat... cut down fast-food and processed food a good 90%, same for sugary and fatty foods, junk, colas, etc. And yeah, i feel a TON better, I look better, etc. I still toss my kids some "junk treats" once in a while, ie a milk-bone cookie, a frozen bagel, a piece of cheese - just like when I get the urge for a bite of chocolate I go for it. Life is not about strict rules and unbending absolutes IMO... but following basic and general guidelines of "you are what you eat" sure has changed my life around.

Like Puppyluv and Lissa and others have said... my dogs are my responsibility, they can't choose what to eat so I am trying to do the best by them, according to my standards and beliefs, built on logic, common sense, research and experience. And I see the results, it's so encouraging! (results for me and for them, LOL)

oops is this going ??? sorry!!! :footinmouth:

off to eat my salad now..
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  #41  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:06 AM
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I guess what I am trying to say is, some people can't afford, can't handle, don't want to feed BARF RAW, and shouldn't feel bad for it. IMO it doesn't make one a "bad pet owner" .

By all means feed your pets whatever you want, just please don't judge the kibble feeders
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  #42  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Scott, the stuff that rolls off the towel, do you disinfect the floor afterwards every time? and do you disinfect your washing machine every time?
Nope. If he noticeable spills something then a quick shot of vinegar and water and its wiped up, As for disinfecting the washing machine, hell with that. I suppose if a wash needed bleach then sure, but i don't get in and scrub the machine lol.

I refuse to be a bacteria freak. Its everywhere. On the ground, on sticks, grass, rocks, everywhere in the environment. I don't wash/disinfect my pups paws every time he walks in the door from the outside. thats just silly. But I'm not stupid. If its dirty, I'll clean it. I keep my counters clean, and practice good personal hygiene.

Also, prey model doesn't have to mean fur included. If you choose to feed fur, thats great. Prey model is to try and get as close to a whole prey animal you can. Obviously most of us cant feed a whole wild buffalo, so maybe we use some buffalo meat, along with a beef heart, and a liver, maybe a pigs tongue, and so on to make up that prey. Thats prey model feeding. A variety of meats bones and organs over a period of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by happycats
Just wondering, do all these strict RAW feeders practise what they preach?
Do you all eat a strictly healthy diet? No junk foods what so ever? no processed foods? If not then doesn't that make you a hypocrite when you preach to kibble feeders? JMO
Not at all. There is a HUGE difference being on a healthy diet and getting a treat every now and then compared to eating processed food every meal for your entire life. I can eat healthy and treat myself to a big mac once in a blue moon. Thats totally different then eating MacDonald's three times a day for my entire life. Come on now.

Quote:
Don't judge peoples love for their pets based on what they feed?!
If you know how bad ****** and other ****ty foods are and continue to feed them, what excuse do you have? If you saw a parent feeding their small child MacDonald's EVERY meal, every day, would you not consider that abuse? I would. Of course if you didn't know better, then you can't fault the owner/parent for ignorence.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938

Last edited by Ford; April 23rd, 2007 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Slander
  #43  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:24 AM
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yes I agree with happycats. And just because i would like to try raw and believe it should be better in most cases DOESN'T mean it is better for everyone. If I had a dog or cat that for whatever reason couldn't handle it or I couldn't do it then of course I would not use it duh. We all need to be responsible for our own health and pets health without being pushed by what is popular or what everyone else swears is the best thing. Doing our best and looking at results to how the body reacts should always be the deciding factor. This shouldn't be about "Peer pressure".
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  #44  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott_B View Post


If you know how bad Alpo/O'l Roy and other ****ty foods are and continue to feed them, what excuse do you have? If you saw a parent feeding their small child MacDonald's EVERY meal, every day, would you not consider that abuse? I would. Of course if you didn't know better, then you can't fault the owner/parent for ignorence.
I know there are pet owners out there who can't afford any better, but I would rather see them keep their pet, then give up, dump or destroy them because they can't afford great food.
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  #45  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:44 AM
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I don't understand this whole Pressure thing.

No one pressured me to feed raw. I never pressure anyone else. Just because I feed raw, doesnt mean I look down at kibble feeders (unless is crap kibble ). Heck my cats get kibble. And I don't see anyone pressuring anyone else here. People state why they like one thing over the other. The pro-kibble/anti-raw feeders dont pressure me to feed kibble, so why is it pressure the other way?

Some people just seem so defensive about what they feed. Its like, if I state why i like raw over kibble, then I'm pressuring you to feed raw. Not true. read or don't read what i have to say, thats your choice, and feed what you want. And its never personal, unless your a jacka$$
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
  #46  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:45 AM
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Anti Barf

I don't think we should criticize anyone for what they feed. We can try and educate others who are interested and wanting to change but to say or insinuate they should not own a pet because they don't feed what you deem to be acceptable is pushing it a bit too far.
I work in a school and yes some kids eat junk everyday. We try to instil better eating habits and don't allow things like chips, chocolate or soft drinks but that is about as far as we can go.
I have my own reasons for not feeding raw although I won't go into them all here. I am not convinced it is the best thing to feed my dogs so I don't, plain and simple. I feel no need to explain why and others should not also. If you want to feed Ol Roy then so be it. Don't feel guilty and feel free to say you do. Some will criticize for sure but you don't need to listen.
  #47  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happycats View Post
I know there are pet owners out there who can't afford any better, but I would rather see them keep their pet, then give up, dump or destroy them because they can't afford great food.
Thats a poor excuse. Ther are some much better kibbles out there that arent expensive and since you feed less, have less vet bills, it actually works out to be cheaper. People just see bag A costing $25 and bag B costing $35 and buy bag A. And chances are they don't realize how $hitty that kibble is in the first place.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
  #48  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:59 AM
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I don't feed raw because Bobby couldn't handle it - he didn't get violently ill but had diarrhea so bad it was awful for the poor boy. I feed kibble - Go Natural Salmon formula - after going through many, many different foods to see what he could handle best and he is now doing well on this one.
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  #49  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 01:10 PM
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I think at the very least EVERYONE should be looking at ingredients to make sure they are not feeding crap. I did actually think Medi-cal was the best because of my stupid vets but after reading all the information here and working on my own health I know better. It is expensive so there is NO excuse to use it over something better quality. No one can argue with me about costs. I did this for years living on only $500 a month. I wasn't eating better than my cat though thats for sure. There really is no arguement if a person says thier Iams is great. It is sad that even well educated people will chose these brands blindly and defend what they are doing. My racist biology teacher for instance was adamant that Iams was once a vet sold brand and therefore of high quality.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 01:35 PM
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I don't feed Tucker raw because ....

1) I can't afford to. I've been making more and more vegetarian dishes because meats have gotten very pricey in my area, taking up a major portion of my food budget.

2) the lack of sources. I'm NOT going to make extra trips out of my way to get to a butcher. The only butcher in town doesn't supply raw meat for dogs (I've asked).

3) Tucker is temperature picky. Occassionally, I will give him a raw bone, such as a soup bone. I buy them in packs of 2 at the grocery store - and normally freeze one. If it's been frozen - or is still frozen (even a little) - Tucker won't touch it. so I would have to have enough raw things completely defrosted (or fresh) - honestly, I'm not even that good about my own meals. I OFTEN forget to take something out the night before.

4) the prep time. I make homecooked meals for myself and my fiance 6-7 nights a week. After working an 8 hr day, over an hour commute home, and then spending 30-60 min preparing dinner, then eating, then cleaning up.... I DO NOT have an ounce of energy to do "the dog's meals". my weekends are full as it is (I don't have a free afternoon to prep a week of meals), and with a baby on the way.... no. just no. it takes me all of 2 min's to scoop some kibble, add 2 scoops of canned food, mix and viola - dinner is served.

5) the balanced diet and variety. I can BARELY manage to get all of my own food groups in during my meals, to try to determine a balanced diet for the dog is pushin it. I'm lucky if I get our own nutrional needs met during a week.

So by choosing a high quality kibble, and adding to it (canned or home cooked), I feel I'm providing the best possible diet I can afford and manage to obtain. I'm not squeemish about germs, and I actually do own a huge stand up freezer that's not being used, but the cost, the prep, the nutrional vitamins & supplements that are needed, and not having a local place to even BUY affordable meats is what stops me.
  #51  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 04:28 PM
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Do either, as long as high quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by happycats View Post
I know there are pet owners out there who can't afford any better, but I would rather see them keep their pet, then give up, dump or destroy them because they can't afford great food.
If you can't afford to feed your dog the proper nutrients and diet it requires, then you should not be a dog owner in the first place. Whether it is a high quality kibble or raw, it should be for the best interest of the dog and always a healthy choice. I'm not pro or anti either, I have fed my dogs both, some times I have mixed them together, one of my dogs can only eat certain raw foods, the others can handle anything. As long as you are feeding high quality and you've done your research, feed your pet what you feel is right, either kibble or raw. I personally have not eaten fast food in years, so yes I practice the thought (not preach) of my dog eating high quality food, and I was prepared for the cost of that BEFORE I ever had pets. And everyone should know that owning a pet is not a right, it is a privilege, pets look to us for love/shelter/food and we should always have their best interests in mind, kibble, raw, or canned.. As long as we do that, we are all good parents, just my
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  #52  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 04:49 PM
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If you can't afford to feed your dog the proper nutrients and diet it requires, then you should not be a dog owner in the first place. Whether it is a high quality kibble or raw, it should be for the best interest of the dog and always a healthy choice. I'm not pro or anti either, I have fed my dogs both, some times I have mixed them together, one of my dogs can only eat certain raw foods, the others can handle anything. As long as you are feeding high quality and you've done your research, feed your pet what you feel is right, either kibble or raw. I personally have not eaten fast food in years, so yes I practice the thought (not preach) of my dog eating high quality food, and I was prepared for the cost of that BEFORE I ever had pets. And everyone should know that owning a pet is not a right, it is a privilege, pets look to us for love/shelter/food and we should always have their best interests in mind, kibble, raw, or canned.. As long as we do that, we are all good parents, just my

Some people already have pets when they go through financial problems?
I mean I have had cat's for 18 years, and to say I have never struggled financially would be a lie. And yes there were times when I have had to feed my cat's grocery store food, but I believe that was better then dumping them when times got tough.

I feed my cat's petsmart "authority" brand right now, and some here may think is garbage, but my cat's have never been better (healthy , beautiful coats, and my oldest has a sensitive stomach, and this is the first food I have found that hasn't made him sick.

All I am trying to say is don't judge a persons love for, or committment to their pet, based on what they feed them.
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  #53  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:08 PM
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And on the light side, my 10 and 13 year olds did not want anything to do with it. I even tried green tripe which I was told that even the most finicky eaters will eat it. Well, not so with my kids. My two 13 year olds looked at me as if to say "and what am I supposed to do with this???" whereas my 10 year old pulled it out of the dish, played with it and was about to start rolling on it (inside the house) and I had to grab it quickly. If anyone knows anything about green tripe, it would probably be equal to getting sprayed by a skunk, LOL
  #54  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by happycats View Post

All I am trying to say is don't judge a persons love for, or committment to their pet, based on what they feed them.
Who judged????
I feed raw AND kibble when im home, the dogs get raw ( except meiko) and when Im away and the dogs are at the sitters... they eat kibble
If someone asks about raw, why cant raw feeders voice their opinons? I too think its better than kibble, but raw is NOT always a possiblilty for some people, thats fine. I think for the most part EVERYONE on here agrees that high quality "FOOD" is what we all push. I am unable to think of a specific time someone looked down on a kibble feeder here. However, there have been a few deleted threads.

I have my reasons for feeding raw, and the biggest one is... I find its fun, and the dogs LOVE it. 3 out of 4 of them handle it great and look much better than before.
the "odd man out" also looks great now thanks to the wide variety of advice and help I recieved with Kibble.
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  #55  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:17 PM
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I do not judge, just do right by the pet

Quote:
Originally Posted by happycats View Post
All I am trying to say is don't judge a persons love for, or committment to their pet, based on what they feed them.
My comment was not to come across as judging, I believe I said feed what's best and we are all good parents. Lots of people can love a pet, it does not mean they make the right decisions for them, especially if they are uneducated decisions about what they put in their pets bodies. All I'm saying is know the cost and feed the best, kibble, raw or canned, I have had financial hard times myself, everyone does, but my dog will always eat the best he can. You can find healthy food choices that don't break the bank, but if you can't feed them what they need, how would you take care of them if they were to get ill? Do the best you can all the time and everyone wins, that is not judging, that is just common sense. :love:
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Last edited by Adogsday; April 23rd, 2007 at 05:23 PM.
  #56  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:27 PM
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okay so let me get this straight..........death would be better for a dog then crappy dog food??

Yes some feed their pets crappy food, but better that then languishing in a cage or death. JMO

And yes, you can find good food for a reasonable prices, but many either don't know or don't have a pet supply store conveniently located, so grocery store food is all they have.
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  #57  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:42 PM
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Not trying to be rude

Happycats I think you are trying to make this into something it is not, which is unfortunate, I am intitled to an opinion just as you are, and I respect yours, as you should mine. I never said to put down any pet!! Erykah1310 I am not trying to be rude in any way to anyone, and I am sorry if it came across that way. The thread is kibble versus raw. That's it. People should feed them the best of each no matter what they chose, it is all in the best interest to our very best friends, our pets.
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Last edited by Adogsday; April 23rd, 2007 at 05:44 PM.
  #58  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erykah1310 View Post
Well then, im out of here, I have no idea how horrifically rude that was supposed to come across, but im done.
The only thing I was "implying" was where is this thread coming from? I dont have the faintest idea where everyones panties have become twisted in a ball about food, raw or kibble. The way I have seen it, there has been great advice from both ends, the only time i can think where someone has directly put down kibble is when it comes to pedigree, purina, Ol Roy ect.

I don't know.....but I found "who judged???? " to be rude, like you didn't even read what I was responding too.

That aside I do find this thread to be very informative, with many points of view, and that's great too. everyone has an opinion and a right to express it, without fear of being flamed or slammed .

I am sorry if you were offened, that was not my intention.
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  #59  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adogsday View Post
Happycats I think you are trying to make this into something it is not, which is unfortunate, I am intitled to an opinion just as you are, and I respect yours, as you should mine. I never said to put down any pet!! And I am not trying to be rude in any way to anyone. The thread is kibble versus raw. That's it. People should feed them the best of each no matter what they chose, it is all in the best interest to our very best friends, our pets.

OMG now how is what I posted being rude to you????

Let's just get along so this thread doesn't get closed!
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  #60  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:47 PM
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Carnac Carnac is offline
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Please get back on topic.
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