Neighbor's dogs

[pags]

Augh. Okay I've never complained about this one before but we just had an experience that has me fuming...

Dave and I were out in the driveway to our house with our almost-four-year-old and almost two-year-old daughters. They were a couple yards away from us playing. Suddenly I heard Dave curse under his breath and saw him start running toward our youngest. I didn't see what was happening at first and then I heard a growl. I looked up and two of our behind-us neighbor's dogs were charging the girls.. teeth-bared - hackles-raised. It was very very fast. Dave got to our youngest and picked her up but there was clearly not enough time for him to get to our other daughter before the dog did so he bellowed a clear NO! just as our two dogs made it to the gate in our side yard and started barking crazily. It was enough to make the dogs stop. This time.

Okay so this neighbor moved in post-Katrina temporarily while his house on the beach is rebuilt. He has three adult labs - chocolate, black, and yellow. They continuously bark in the yard behind us if we're outside... and literally attack the fence if our dogs are out there. Our neighbor has a tendency to just open the gate and let them out to run around wherever when he gets home. Not for long periods of time, mind you... But he's not careful at all about keeping them around the house. Ever since the first day I saw them out I was nervous about them. They are not at all friendly dogs. I mentioned my concerns to the neighbor on more than one occasion and he said they were great friendly dogs. Great friendly dogs don't stalk and stare down people, you know?

Now I'm just plain furious. Ever since they moved in I have herded all the children in when I see the dogs out... But their yard adjoins ours and it doesn't take long for them to get from their gate to our driveway if they just got out. Blah.

I know I know... A confrontation is in order. If, of course, you understood the dynamics of this small southern town and this particular neighborhood as well... You would understand why I'm feeling incredibly impotent at the moment. Blah again!

[hazelrunpack]

An...uncomfortable...neighbor. I hate neighbors like that! sigh Thank heavens, between Dave and your dogs, the attack was averted! Must've been extremely scary

I take it his yard is not fenced? Or does he just let them out to roam the neighborhood? Boy, pags, much as it would confine you, I think I'd be spending as much time inside your fence as possible! Is there enough room in there for the girls to play?

What would animal control say about this? If there have been complaints from some of the other neighbors, they might at least talk to the guy. And if there haven't been other complaints, maybe now is the time to start them? Before someone gets hurt!

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

What would animal control say about this?

You should call them ! If I understand correctly, he lets them out on the street ? That is not acceptable !!!!

[pags]

Thanks, guys. It has taken all this time for me to start to calm down after this one. Blah!

Hazel: His backyard is fenced (we aren't allowed to fence our entire yards in this neighborhood - just the back) and the dogs spend most of their time back there. It just that whenever he gets home from work (and he gets home at weird times.. he's an orthopaedic surgeon) he just opens the gate to his backyard and lets the dogs run free for some reason.

Dave and I talked about staying in our fenced backyard until they move out.. but there's a problem with that as well, unfortunately. The privacy fence that lines the back of our property is actually their fence and it was severely damaged in Katrina. Many of the boards have rotted and the whole fence is rather wobbly.. We actually have a very real fear of the dogs busting through the fence. BUT because our neighbors are here temporarily - they have stated they're not investing any money in a new fence. We have been searching for contractors to put up a new fence behind their old one -- however... well that's a totally different story.. but let's just say that contractors are a rare and precious commodity down here and everything has a waiting list of a year or two.

Frenchy: Yep. You understand correctly!

And you guys are right. The only thing I know to do now is call Animal Control the next time I see them out running free.

[Jim Hall]

agressive labs ? either they have been mistreated or are very scared

[Frenchy]

Can't this guy understand you have kids !!!

[Smiley14]

Oh Pags, that is SCARY! I'm so sorry that happened to you and you have to deal with such an awful situation ongoing. It is wrong that he lets his dogs out free like that just because he thinks they're "friendly." Maybe they are to him, but obviously not to everyone else. And even if they were, it's still against the law. The sad thing is that it seems in situations like these, it's only after something tragic happens does anything change. How very awful and frustrating for you!!!

Sounds like you need one giant can of mace on hand at all times.

UGH. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this!

[pags]

Originally Posted by Jim Hall

agressive labs ? either they have been mistreated or are very scared

I've known other aggressive labs in my life. Plenty. As a matter of fact - the only dog that has ever bitten me was a yellow lab.

I'd never suggest that this guy mistreats this dogs. They seem quite pampered.

It's actually possible that they WERE great friendly dogs before the storm... But many of us are having pet behavior issues in the wake of Hurricane Katrina... Even those who did not suffer the trauma of the actual storm - or being lost - or being rescued... Have had to deal with owners living in trailers or different homes.. hotel rooms... long times in kennels or boarded.. more time outside... and the stress of the people around them.

(It's actually a problem that some of our local vets have been trying to get out into the media so that people can start trying to deal with it now. Abused animals experience trauma - and it's that trauma that often leads to behavioral issues. Katrina survivors and their animals also experienced (and still experience to some extent) trauma -- and it's leading to behavioral issues for all of us... Furry & human alike.)

[pags]

Originally Posted by Smiley14

Sounds like you need one giant can of mace on hand at all times.

No kidding, Smiley! We are gonna have a family meeting tomorrow to discuss this whole thing with our boys. Our girls are always supervised outside of course -- but our boys are older and go out on their own pretty often... This is all very frustrating. I want to go back over the 'what to do if you encounter a strange dog' routine with the boys at least.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by pags

I want to go back over the 'what to do if you encounter a strange dog' routine with the boys at least.

The thing that scares me is they are 3 dogs , they get into this pack behavior and the nicest dog can turn out nasty. Just at my house , Nelly is extremely nice with my cat , my goldens don't pay any attention to him , and my foster Paco is real nice with my cat too. BUT , if Paco gets too excited around the cat, I notice Nelly will want to get into the action and they want to chase the cat. A simple no and they stop. But it's a pack thing.... IMO

[Smiley14]

Originally Posted by pags

I've known other aggressive labs in my life. Plenty. As a matter of fact - the only dog that has ever bitten me was a yellow lab.

I'd never suggest that this guy mistreats this dogs. They seem quite pampered.

It's actually possible that they WERE great friendly dogs before the storm... But many of us are having pet behavior issues in the wake of Hurricane Katrina... Even those who did not suffer the trauma of the actual storm - or being lost - or being rescued... Have had to deal with owners living in trailers or different homes.. hotel rooms... long times in kennels or boarded.. more time outside... and the stress of the people around them.

(It's actually a problem that some of our local vets have been trying to get out into the media so that people can start trying to deal with it now. Abused animals experience trauma - and it's that trauma that often leads to behavioral issues. Katrina survivors and their animals also experienced (and still experience to some extent) trauma -- and it's leading to behavioral issues for all of us... Furry & human alike.)

That is something that has NEVER been commented in the media around here. And it really should be! It is so very true. I have to say, your sympathy is amazing to see. I have great love for all dogs and tend to usually take their side, but in a situation like this where children are at risk, it can sometimes be a little harder to stay objective. Your attitude and insight is wonderful! I think so many people would just blame the dogs and not the owner or in this case, what they've been through. Man, it's hard to find that right balance of understanding and safety in a situation like this. It almost sounds like the owner himself is in denial or doesn't realize how potentially dangerous the situation is. That is extremely frustrating for you!

[pags]

Here's a link to an article written by a local vet on the topic of post-Katrina stress and pets in our area:

http://www.gadzoo.com/BostonGlobe/Pe...11&GroupId=204

Now that I've had a good night's sleep... I'm going to go over this afternoon and talk to our neighbor again and explain what happened yesterday. I'll let you all know how that turns out.

And frenchy -- I agree about the pack thing too.

[NoahGrey]

I would call your local Animal Control. Let them know that your neibour's dogs are running at large (straying off their's owners property) Also, that they have charged your kids with the possibilty of them getting bit. Animal Control will deal with them.

ACO22

[rainbow]

Pags, good luck talking to your neighbour. Hopefully he will understand and let the dogs out in his fenced yard when he gets home rather than out the front to run loose.

It sounds like his labs need a lot more exercise than they are getting. Are they kept in the house all day until he gets home?

Again, good luck.....I hope he listens to you.

[chico2]

OMG Pags you must have been terrified for your girls...I hope you can get the neighnor to understand the seriousness of this incident and never let his dogs roam again

[pags]

Hey guys! Time for an update. Had a long talk with the neighbor and learned a few things... and he seems totally willing to try to work toward a solution. Here's the rundown:

First -- these three labs are actually his son's dogs. He and his wife have a beagle. His son and family are still staying in a hotel 23 months after Hurricane Katrina while waiting for their house to be rebuilt... no dogs allowed.

He told me that he doesn't actually intend for the dogs to be out when he gets home -- but that they have become increasingly destructive and are finding ways to get out - or into places they shouldn't. So basically what's happening is when they're left out for a couple hours before he gets home from work.. they have broken the door to the garage and now climb in through there... so that when he opens the garage they're waiting to run out. They've been left inside and broken out a sliding glass door to get outside. He also showed me where they have been climbing the fence to get out during the day --- so he hasn't always LET them out.. they're getting out.

His wife is a librarian at the school in our neighborhood and is only gone for maybe an hour or so at a time during the day... so these aren't dogs that are left for long, long periods of time... They're just extremely bored. Apparently these are his son's 'duck dogs' -- hunting dogs... And his son used to take them out every single weekend for hunts - mock or real... and several times a day for field training. It has now been 26 months since they've had that kind of stimulation.

When I told him what happened with the girls... and about the way the dogs were acting when they were roaming he was horrified. Honestly, he almost started crying. And I think he's completely overwhelmed.

Resources were limited in our town before the storm. It's a very small town. After the storm -- we have almost no resources. We have been reduced to one over-booked veterinarian and a Wal-mart. The one dog trainer is gone.
Everyone is just having to make-do in almost impossible circumstances -- so I really feel for this guy at this point.

Since I have absolutely NOTHING to do while I'm here homeschooling our four kids and training my own dogs and taking care of the kitties ... I am going visiting every evening for a little dog training next door. I want these dogs to know and respect me so I can actually get them back in their yard if they escape.. and my neighbor wants me to teach him how to do the same since he's having to care for these guys. I'm hoping some daily training/play time will calm them down a bit as well.

Ideally - I'd like to get this thing to progress to the point where we can introduce these dogs to our dogs as well... The fence-aggression is absolutely horrifying and not helping Judge's PTSD at all.

I spent about an hour over there last night.. and these are some confused doggies. They don't know where they are supposed to be or when... There is no real routine in their lives. I know how they feel.

[Smiley14]

Oh Pags, you are an absolute angel! That poor man and those poor dogs! :sad: It is good to know the full situation! That puts a completely different light on things! But still a situation that needs to be addressed for safety concerns, so I am so happy to hear he is willing to learn and that you are devoting some of your precious little time to help out. I wish you the best of luck!!!!

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by pags

. They've been left inside and broken out a sliding glass door to get outside.

OMG ! Broke a sliding glass door For sure these guys are bored , used to work and now nothing. It's great of you to had this conversation with him , sometimes we pass judgement (I know , I do this all the time ) without knowing the whole story , sometimes people have good excuses. I feel for the owner , and thank YOU so much for offering him help ! Good luck with the beasties

[growler~GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by pags

First -- these three labs are actually his son's dogs. He and his wife have a beagle. His son and family are still staying in a hotel 23 months after Hurricane Katrina while waiting for their house to be rebuilt... no dogs allowed.

His wife is a librarian at the school in our neighborhood and is only gone for maybe an hour or so at a time during the day... so these aren't dogs that are left for long, long periods of time... They're just extremely bored. Apparently these are his son's 'duck dogs' -- hunting dogs... And his son used to take them out every single weekend for hunts - mock or real... and several times a day for field training. It has now been 26 months since they've had that kind of stimulation.

Pags how sweet of you to help out.
Coupla questions (& I realize you may not know the answers): where is the neighbour guy's beagle through all of this destruction & pack running? Have they gone after it?

Why doesn't the son & family live in the house too? or instead of neighbour dad? I would think everyone together or the son & family in the house w/his 3 dogs would be a better solution that way he could properly excerise his dogs the way they were trained & are used to, rather than relying on neighbour dad to do the best he can, with help from you of course.

I'm sure the trauma of the storm, move & now being separated from immediate family has increased Pack Mentality - they know they have to stick together thinking of all they have lost

Good luck w/playtime/training & for the girls

[chico2]

Pags,I think we,who have never experienced anything like Katrina cannot really understand your circumstances,the devastation and the time and money it takes to rebuild.
I am glad you could talk it through with your neighbor,he is really in a bind,in a situation I certainly would not want to be.
If these dogs are hunting-dogs,they might not even be used to staying in a house,aren't they usually kept in an outdoor kennel.
I only know one man who hunts and his dogs are always outside:sad:
It's great of you to offer to help this poor man,only be very careful,ok

[pags]

Smiley: Thank you! Of course - an angel I am not... There's just not really an alternative at this point. I would never be able to live with myself if the dogs' owner was to lose these dogs after having lost everything else and I didn't do anything to try to help. I need all the luck you can send this way though.

Frenchy: You should see the damage these boys have done!! And all the more frustrating since there's no one available to make 'small' repairs like replacing a glass door or fixing a door frame right now. Uh and same as with Smiley -- keep sending luck.

growler: From what I was told the other evening... the beagle is pretty old and spends his time inside sleeping on his dog bed through all the destruction and chaos. Apparently the big boys generally leave him alone. I sure hope so.

As for the son and family living with them... I know for a time before this older couple moved into this house -- they did just that. They all shared a hotel room together -- not just with this son and family (their children are all even older than us.. our neighbors are in their seventies now) but with their other children and families... At one point as many as 12 people in the hotel room. We folks down here don't even have to discuss why we aren't all living together anymore LOL Because we ALL had to do it for some period of time after the storm. Some families shared 20 ft FEMA trailers for months... Others all moved into whatever family members' home survived. After a few months of it you would chew off your right leg rather than stay in such crowded conditions. (We stayed with my mother -- my husband and I - the one dog - the (at the time five) cats - and our four kids.. in her two bedroom 1000 square foot house. As soon as we heard we had electricity in our neighborhood... we moved back into our gutted house with no running water to get out!! LOL)

Hopefully their houses will be finished within the year. Hopefully. And they can start getting back to normal. (Remember - these are people who have slabs... not damaged houses... but no trace of a house after the storm.)

chico2: Thanks, chico! I'm painfully aware that sometimes I sound like a broken record trying to explain the Katrina circumstances.... but I also think it's important to put things in perspective for those who haven't been through it -- so I persist. Oooh the stories I have. But I won't tell them all here. LOL Just let it suffice to say that things are only moderately better than immediately after the storm for all of us... And no where NEAR normal.

As for the doggies -- they were actually not kenneled dogs and stayed inside with this fellow and family... However.. much like their well-to-do owners were quite used to a LOT more inside space. And I do think that makes a huge difference. I know that when Judge was with us at my mother's house he was crazy (even though he himself was small at the time). Our own house is big enough to play a good game of fetch from the living room (with a little sliding on the floors, of course) -- so he just didn't understand why there wasn't enough room to run herding circles in her house without knocking something over. But I'm QUITE sure that these dogs lived in a much bigger house than our own.

And you're right.. I promise to be careful!!!

[rainbow]

I shudder at the thought what all of you went through down there. :sad: I don't think anyone can fully realize if they haven't been through it. I also think that if it had happened in Texas the help would have been sooner and better.

I'm glad things went well with your neighbour. You are an angel for offering your help to him. I hope everything works out.