recognized breed?

[happycats]

Is there actually a breed called "native americen indian dog" ?
I see some websites recognize them, ,yet others call it a complete hoax, they are just mutts. possably husky, ,spitz cyote, wolf mixes.
Does anyone know for sure ?
Just curious.

[mona_b]

You mean this one.

[mona_b]

And this one.

I have come across some sites about these dogs.They are not recognized with the CKC and I'm sure not with the AKC either.I have never seen these dogs at any of the dog shows I've been too.

[mona_b]

I found this,plus some more.

http://www.iidoba.com/history.htm

But I did find this also.

http://www.indiandogwarning.com/


Hmmmmmmm.

[mona_b]

It's funny that these dogs all look like they have different breeds in them.

Some of them look like they have Husky/Border Collie,yet some look like they have Husky/Shepherd........

http://www.spiritdogkennels.com/gallery2.htm

[Karin]

With a little imagination we could think up our own board breed of dog too.


Any ideas?






"Board de Tellall" a breed known to be nosey, sniffing places it does not belong but tells a good story on the way...

Just my imagination working....*must be the working breed I'm thinking of* lol! Yes, I watched the show.....

[Writing4Fun]

Yeah, I looked into these dogs at one point. They're not recognized by anyone except their own "breeders". Even at that, there are two sets of "breeders" who will bash each other if given half the chance - both are claiming to be the only ones breeding the "true" Native American Indian Dog, while the other (they claim) are breeding nothing more than coyote/wolf/dingo hybrids.

[maddoxies]

Karin: I love your sense of humour. What a great idea for a new thread!!! Make up some breed names and their charactaristics. I will have to watch my guys over the weekend and put my thinking cap on.

[glasslass]

Don't forget if you want the name to appeal, it's gotta end in "oodle" or "poo".

Petipoo Canoodle?

[BigDogLover]

Wouldn't ' Goldenweiller' have a certain appeal to it? How about a Golden Pinscher or a Doberman Retriever. Thank god both of my dogs are male, the golden altered, the dobe will be altered ASAP, else, imagine the evils I could do?

Dar.

[Schwinn]

Originally Posted by glasslass

Don't forget if you want the name to appeal, it's gotta end in "oodle" or "poo".

Petipoo Canoodle?

If you combined a ****-zu with a Poodle, wouldn't that be redundant? (I'm thinking name here)

[glasslass]

Leave it to Schwinn!

[happycats]

my brother has a *****szu/pom he call him a sh*ittypom!!

[Schwinn]

Daisy is a Rottenpit. (Rott/pit cross)

[mafiaprincess]

I was curious about the NAID when I heard about it. On a different forum there was a pretty good conversation about it you might want to read. About half way down the page.
http://www.terrificpets.com/forum/705_4.asp

[Lissa]

I was also curious about this breed when I saw it mentioned on another forum. So I searched for it here and found this thread about them!

At first I was confused because there seems to be 2 different "breeds" within a breed if you know what I mean !!

There is an American Indian Dog which is about 18-21 inches and 25-45lbs. Which is said to be a mix of: coyote/dingo/Australian Kelpie/Border Collie mix.

Then there is the Native American Indian Dog that are 26"-32" in height and about 70lbs-120lbs. The amazing part about these NAID is there life expectancy - anywhere from 14-20 years - so amazing! Apparently, they have no known genetic "defects"/health issues. (I can't find anywhere that says exactly what breeds this dog has in it)

I don't know much about this "breed" aside from what I've read on the breeders websites. Some have a very wolfish look to them - which is probably why I am so entranced by them.

I agree that most of them look like a mix of a whole bunch of different breeds - there seems to be endless variations of coat colours and body types - presumably because of the tribe and region they came from???

I think NAID's are now recognized by the National Kennel Club (whatever that is!?)

Although I agree that this dog is now and probably always was some sort of mix, I think that the history behind these dogs is a great thing to keep alive. I wonder if it's possible to trace some of these dogs back to certain tribes? There are many photos, paintings and drawings that show Native Americans with dogs - some of which have a remarkable resemblance to one's being bred today. I guess it probably is too late to preserve this breed? Would this make this breeders a form of BYB???



Melissa

This is the smaller, American Indian Dog: (taken from this site: http://www.indiandogs.com/)

[Lissa]

And this is the taller and larger NAID, taken from this site: http://www.terrapines.com/

[Lissa]

One last question/comment: are these dog like the Canadian Eskimo Dog? From what I can tell, is that these dog were used for hunting, sledding and carrying things, some I'm sure were eaten as well (hopefully they were also companions!) - much like the Canadian Eskimo Dog, right?

Here's a Canadian Eskimo Dog, obviously smaller and thicker... (taken from this site: http://www.canadianeskimodog.com)

[mafiaprincess]

Since the NAID is a bunch of dogs randomly thrown together, that when they look too much like dog or wolf the opposite is added, it is impossible to 'save the breed'. When it truely was a breed it eventualyl became extinct, and now crappy breeders claim they are preserving them, yet the new dogs don't come from any of that lineage.

People who have visited the kennels have mentioned in the past that the dogs change. Go back in 6 months and the dogs don't look at all the same as they did before. There's a manditory s/n contract which is sketchy since you would want quality dogs back to help develop the kennel.

Overall, the NAID is a scam. It's a pretty much heinz 57 there are so many dogs mixed in with no breed standard. The kennel owners (if I remebr there are 2 kennels breeding) kick the dogs out the door at like 6 weeks because they claim it forces the dog to bond with owner. In reality they have severe temperment issues, and they need them off the property fast.

[Mockingcat]

There was a thread on these dogs on another board I frequent. There were a lot of questionable practices going on, stemming with the breed's founder.

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by mafiaprincess

There's a manditory s/n contract which is sketchy since you would want quality dogs back to help develop the kennel.

Overall, the NAID is a scam. It's a pretty much heinz 57 there are so many dogs mixed in with no breed standard. The kennel owners (if I remebr there are 2 kennels breeding) kick the dogs out the door at like 6 weeks because they claim it forces the dog to bond with owner. In reality they have severe temperment issues, and they need them off the property fast.

About the s/n, most of the breeders of NAID offer a $100 if the dog is spayed. Do reputable breedes offer that too? And of course, if you don't plan on getting them neutered, the dog costs more. Is this NAID breeders trying to pass as reputable?

There are a lot more than 2 kennels breeding now - and those are only the one's advertised on the net, there could be more for all I know!

Breeders of NAID, claim that the dogs are hypoallergenic (there's that false term again!) and have no "doggy" smell.

I find the ancestors of these dogs quite intriguing but I guess I should accept what you say - in reality these dogs have long been extinct.

Melissa

[mafiaprincess]

Al lI know is a few people on another board wanted a NAID back in like February of so, and people were curious and did major research. S/N was manditory no matter what.

Usually pet quality dogs cost less from a good breeder, so you are paying less than a show quality dog.. so you don't get money back.

I think there were 2 major kennels when people were looking like 6 months ago.

Hypo any dog is a lie. Low dander maybe, but not coming from lines that include wolves and mals.

I think the history is cool too. But in reality the dogs from history weren't preserved to be being bred now.

http://www.indiandogwarning.com/ sums up a lot of what people found in researching in varied sources. If you read up above I dropped a link to another forum.. one person had their Mom look in the college library she works at to get info even.. there wasn't any.
That website while controversial is fairly straight forward and rings pretty true about all of the claims made about NAIDs or AIDs..

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by Lissa

One last question/comment: are these dog like the Canadian Eskimo Dog? From what I can tell, is that these dog were used for hunting, sledding and carrying things, some I'm sure were eaten as well (hopefully they were also companions!) - much like the Canadian Eskimo Dog, right?

That breed doesn't even compare to the Canadian Eskimo Dog.The Canadian Eskimo is a recognized breed....

Lissa,have you checked the links that I posted?Every single dog looks different.If it's called a NAID,wouldn't you think that all the dogs would more or less look the same?And the link with the taller ones,yeah,they look wolf to me.10-1 these are hybred wolves being bred.Absalutely nothing to do with the NAID..Just my opinion.

[Lissa]

I just read through the posts abour NAID on that other forum. OMG, the thought that she killed her high-content wolf dogs and sold their pelts is horrible.

I have not read the whole Indian Dog Warning site yet - but do you know if the same holds true for Canadian Eskimo Dogs?? I realize that Canadian Eskimo Dogs are a glorified mutt but I don't think anybody advertises them as anything else...
I heard that they are almost extinct as well but since they are still being used as sled dogs up North, does that make them more of a "breed"!? Or just a mutt with a job?
Recently, our local shelter has started flying dogs in from an Iqaluit (sp?) shelter. I have seen a few of these adopted dogs from WAY up North and with adequate exerise and training they make excellent companions. The 3 that I have met do NOT roam and are 100% trustworthy off-leash - I was amazed.
Adopting one of these Northern dogs is a good way to bring a "piece of living history" into my life - but that is 100% the wrong reason to get a dog!
Thanks for sharing what you know about these dogs!

[mona_b]

The Canadian Eskimo Dog is a true breed that is recognized with the CKC.I know of one breeder in Brampton.

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by mona_b

That breed doesn't even compare to the Canadian Eskimo Dog.The Canadian Eskimo is a recognized breed....

Lissa,have you checked the links that I posted?Every single dog looks different.If it's called a NAID,wouldn't you think that all the dogs would more or less look the same?And the link with the taller ones,yeah,they look wolf to me.10-1 these are hybred wolves being bred.Absalutely nothing to do with the NAID..Just my opinion.

Yes, I just looked over the sites you posted...when I started reading the Indian Dog Association history, I remembered the Carolina Dog.

The Carolina Dog seems to be the U.S version of a Dingo and I claims to be the closest thing to the original Native American dogs???? I think they are AKC approved but not by the CKC?? Is that right?

Here's a Carolina Dog:

[Lissa]

And another. Again with the Carolina Dog, there seems to be some variation in body height/size and colour - but not as much as the NAID....

[Safyre]

I've said this before, and I will say it many times in the future I'm sure: most of the dogs we love right now, are mutts. (that is in response to the "I realize that Canadian Eskimo Dogs are a glorified mutt")

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by mona_b

The Canadian Eskimo Dog is a true breed that is recognized with the CKC.I know of one breeder in Brampton.

I understand that they are recognized by the CKC but how do they differ from NAID and AID? Just because some organization decides to grant them approval and therefore part of the club?

From what I have read the CED is still a mix of dogs - but I guess they have been mixed for a long enough time to warrant becoming a breed of their own?

If you look at it from the AID Association point of view - it sounds very much like they are doing the right thing to get as close to the original/historical native american breed as possible. If what their site claims is true, it seems that AID are as "pure" and as close to what their ancestors are as CED...

[Safyre]

Originally Posted by Lissa

The Carolina Dog seems to be the U.S version of a Dingo and I claims to be the closest thing to the original Native American dogs???? I think they are AKC approved but not by the CKC?? Is that right?

I just started to read the AID Hoax website and just wanted to quote this:

Most likely, these loftily named dogs are simply a mix of various dog breeds. You will possibly even get a wolf or coyote hybrid, mixed over time with Husky, Kelpie, Spitz, Samoyed, Carolina dog or some other mix of unknown origin.
The carolina dog is mentioned as possibly a part of the AID.