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  #1  
Old August 10th, 2006, 10:04 AM
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Smile Puppy dry food recommendations needed

I am getting my dog in about 1.5 months and I want to make sure I already did my homework when comes to the food. Looking for small dog food.

In a lot of Toronto pet stores the sales associates push different types of food: SuperPet and Pj’s has Nutrience (they push this because it’s made by Hagen however this food has a lot of feelers and it is quite high in fat but it has good protein, no by-products or mixtures of protein that can be bad for dogs with sensitive stomachs).

Some brands that I think that would be good are: Merick, Innova, Wellness (wellness is baked not extruded so it tends to be digested too quickly).

Any help would be appreciated in this matter!
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Old August 10th, 2006, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
wellness is baked not extruded so it tends to be digested too quickly
umm no, they changed their forumla a little while ago, food is no longer baked, it is extruded. Any holistic brand is good IMO... depends on what your dog likes, what you can find, what your budget is, etc. here's a good list: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28957 j (if a food is listed as "all life stages" it's perfectly fine for a puppy).

good luck!
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Old August 10th, 2006, 10:20 AM
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you posted about getting the maltese, right? a good friend of mine has a maltese, and she feeds wellness. Her dog does great on it.

ETA: her dog is about 2 now, so NOW he's on the adult lamb formula, but was on the puppy food when younger.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 10:22 AM
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While she ate kibble, my girl was a Wellness girl, so I'm tempted to reccomend that one, but you should also look at Solid Gold
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  #5  
Old August 10th, 2006, 04:33 PM
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Solid Gold makes a food for little dogs. It's more dense so you feed less. I feed the large breed version of it to my babies and they love it and are doing really well on it.
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/produ...id=68&code=140
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Old August 11th, 2006, 01:51 PM
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I can find Wellness all over the place here and the ingredients for the puppy food look great:

Ingredients:
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal (natural source of DHA), Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Ground Brown Rice, Rice Bran (from brown rice), Tomatoes (natural source of lycopene), Natural Chicken Flavor, Rye Flour, Ground Millet, Flaxseed, Carrots, Apples, Spinach, Blueberries, Sweet Potatoes, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of zinc), Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of iron), Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of copper), Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of manganese), Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin K Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Chicory Root Extract, Garlic, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus.
Old Mother Hubbard uses ethoxyquin-free meat sources.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein: Not Less Than 28.0%
Crude Fat: Not Less Than 17.0%
Crude Fiber: Not More Than 5.0%
Moisture: Not More Than 11.0%
Vitamin E: Not Less Than 150 IU/kg
Calcium: Not Less Than 13.0%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids: Not Less Than 3.0%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids: Not Less Than 1.0%
Beta Carotene*: Not Less Than 5 mg/kg
DHA*: Not Less Than 0.13%
Lycopene*: Not Less Than 0.25mg/kg
Taurine*: Not Less Than 0.09%
* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles

Calories Analysis (calories per cup):
1 Cup 430



Unlike most other dry foods that are rapidly extruded during the manufacturing process, Old Mother Hubbard slowly oven bakes its Wellness Super5Mix foods and treats to preserve and enrich the nutrients, and to enhance the aroma. Wellness does not contain any rendered animal fats, meat by-products, wheat, corn or white rice and also does not contain any artificial colors, flavors or preservatives of any kind.


So, what is really the deal with extruded vs. baked
I was not abble to fnd alot of info about this

Last edited by Violeta; August 11th, 2006 at 02:04 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:40 PM
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all i know is that wellness USED to bake their kibble, now they extrude it and call it "enhanced formula" ... one of the reps told me that at a dog show, she was giving out samples, etc... and i do remember reading an article on the subject not too long ago but dang if i can find it, LOL!
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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:53 PM
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I went to the store and checked the bag and it said that the pellets are backed this is why I am confused now, some1 here said that they do not bake it anymore .... well, they still do, at leats the puppy food
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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:58 PM
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I just emailed the company (Old Mother Hubbard) to find out what the real story is... even i am now, LOL! I'll let you know what they say
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Old August 11th, 2006, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll
I just emailed the company (Old Mother Hubbard) to find out what the real story is... even i am now, LOL! I'll let you know what they say

that is great !! Thanks'
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Old August 11th, 2006, 04:02 PM
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There's info on Wellness in the Dog Food Forum.
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  #12  
Old August 11th, 2006, 04:04 PM
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I just talked to a friend of mine that is a supervisor / dog nutritionist at a pet store, although she works at a pet store she does have a lot of knowledge and loves what she does.

We ware talking about the baked vs. extruded pellets, she said the same, that baked food is a little inferior to extruded kibble, the dog needs to eat more.

She also said that corn was “demonized” by some companies (i.e. Nutro especially) however it is safe and non irritating to the dogs stomach so, it is not bad for the dogs. Oatmeal for example makes dogs fart …lol; and it is hard to digest. Apparently corn and brown rice are the best carbs to put in dog kibble.

Dude this is sooo complicated
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Old August 11th, 2006, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow
There's info on Wellness in the Dog Food Forum.


, I didn't even know that there is such a forum .....
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  #14  
Old August 11th, 2006, 04:35 PM
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Here is a recent thread about Wellness.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=29277
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Old August 11th, 2006, 05:09 PM
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I know many people who use Wellness and love the product. I myself use Solid Gold. Just received their latest catalogue and they've introduced a new product "Barking at the Moon" to their line. You can always visit them @ www.solidgoldhealth.com. Their latest catalogue 9 is available upon request. It's great your wanting to invest in the time of what's best to feed him/her Good luck!
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Old August 11th, 2006, 05:11 PM
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Sorry, I didn't realize Prin already included that link.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
She also said that corn was “demonized” by some companies (i.e. Nutro especially) however it is safe and non irritating to the dogs stomach so, it is not bad for the dogs. Oatmeal for example makes dogs fart …lol; and it is hard to digest. Apparently corn and brown rice are the best carbs to put in dog kibble.
i'm sorry but your friend, sadly, is misinformed... corn is not digestible by dogs and is used only as a cheap filler in kibble. this site is easy to understand, navigate, and contains very correct information on which ingredients to avoid in dog food: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....badingredients

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Old August 11th, 2006, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll
i'm sorry but your friend, sadly, is misinformed... corn is not digestible by dogs and is used only as a cheap filler in kibble.
I was thinking the same however there are filers a lot worst then corn. I do not know what to believe anymore because a lot of “professionals” are telling me that corn is ok and that foods with a lot of protein sources are bad …

I am not going to get something that has corn in it either way. I am aiming for brown rice and hopefully only 1 type of protein at least in the beginning and it looks like the only decent choice I have in this case is Canidae Chicken and Rice formula but I am wondering if my little dog will be ok with the kibble size.
I like Wellness also and if Canidae (if I don’t find something better) doesn’t work then I will try it.


Chicken and Rice Formula

Benefits:
Single Protein Source Made with Chicken and Brown Rice, Excellent for Problem Skin & Allergies, 10 Natural Skin & Coat Conditioners, Balanced Omega 6 & 3 Fatty Acids, Antioxidant Vitamins & Amino Acid Chelated Minerals, Holistic & Herbal Benefits, Formulated for All Life Stages Puppies, Adults, Seniors & Overweight

All Natural Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Dried Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Calculated Caloric Content:
ME (kcal/kg) 4178
ME (kcal/g) 4.18
ME (kcal/lb) 1899
ME (kcal/cup) 475

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 26.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 15.50%
Crude Fiber (max.) 4.00%
Moisture (min.) 10.00%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) (min.) 3.70%
Calcium (min.) 1.20%
Phosphorus (min.) 0.90%
Magnesium (min.) 0.14%
Vitamin E (min.) 200.00 IU/kg
Alpha Linoleic Acid (Omega 3) (min.) 0.60%
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) 50.00 mg/kg
pH 6.0

Daily Feeding Guidelines

Dog Weight Puppies Adult Light/Senior
(up to 6 mos.) (with exercise)
2-10 lbs. 1/2-1 1/2 cups 1/2-3/4 cup 1/4-1/2 cup
15-25 lbs. 1 1/2 cups 3/4-1 cup 1/2-3/4 cup
25-50 lbs. 2-4 cups 1-2 cups 1/2-1 cup
50-75 lbs. 4-5 cups 2-3 cups 1-1 1/2 cups
75-100 lbs. 5-6 cups 3-4 cups 1 1/2-3 cups


Feed Pregnant Dogs up to 50% more during the last 3 weeks of pregnancy.
During Lactation and Puppies up to 6 months old, require twice the amount of food as an adult dog and they should be fed 3 to 4 times a day. Puppies six months to a year, twice daily.
Senior and Overweight Dogs may be fed a reduced amount, depending on the dogs weight and activity level.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:15 PM
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Canidae is good too. I wouldn't worry about the size too much. My friend's 4.5 lb minpin ate wellness puppy and now eats wellness Super5Mix chicken, and chews the kibbles. They're pretty easy to chew (they aren't too hard).
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Old August 12th, 2006, 07:17 AM
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http://www.frommfamily.com/products_...ardry_duck.asp

Personally, when I have a small one to feed puppy or adult, I normally go with Fromm. Easy size for them to manage, levels just fine for pup or adult. Also Maltese are like Bichon in that they can have a meriad of allergies normally so I pick the Duck one in particuliar. Just my two cents worth.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 03:25 PM
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My guy was really hard to feed, most things would give him the runs. I found chicken worked best, lamb didn't seem to agree with him. He's on Performatrin Ultra - Salmon and Rice as its designed to give him a better feeling of fullness (his portion size is ridiculously small) and knowing he feels full makes me feel better!

http://www.performatrinultra.com/puppy/pdi_chicken.htm
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Old August 12th, 2006, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll
I just emailed the company (Old Mother Hubbard) to find out what the real story is... even i am now, LOL! I'll let you know what they say
LOL, ahhh TD, Rainbow and I are one step ahead of you:

The response from OMH:

Quote:

Thank you for taking the time to write Old Mother Hubbard and Wellness. We have taken the best qualities of baking and optimized the extrusion process. This is not a "cost effective" change; the extrusion technology has finally caught-up with the baking process and in some areas exceeds the baking process. The food is extruded, and then gets cooked to make sure there is enough moisture. Density is still the same. It was high in baked and is also high now, because there is no air in the food. LESS VOLUME=HIGHER DIGESTABILITY.

We use no rendered fats, or animal fats in our foods; we use all natural flavors to flavor our foods. Natural flavor is used for its ability to improve the taste of dry foods. It is sprayed on the exterior of dry food or dusted on after canola oil is sprayed on the dry food. Our enhanced formula is preferred 3 to 1 over the older kibble product we used to manufacture. We always closely monitored what goes into our products, and oversee the process closely. This has not changed and will continue to be the case. We will always apply a holistic approach to our foods and treats.

Sincerely,

Mike Shapiro
Specialist
Consumer Affairs
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Old August 12th, 2006, 04:11 PM
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Actually, I emailed them about the menadione confusion.
Still waiting for a reply.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow
Actually, I emailed them about the menadione confusion.
Still waiting for a reply.
Oh that's right, hmm maybe their response to you needs a little more "spinning"
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Old August 12th, 2006, 04:31 PM
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LOL....No Doubt.

If I don't hear anything this week I'll email them again.
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  #26  
Old August 12th, 2006, 08:37 PM
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in many foods, Flaxseed is quite high on the ingredient list (5-6 ingredient) is this ok? I was thinking that so much flaxseed could be a problem right ...
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Old August 12th, 2006, 08:48 PM
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from http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....=labelinfo101:

Quote:
A good rule of thumb to distinguish the major components of a food is to look for the first named source of fat in the ingredient list. Anything listed before that, and including it, make up the main portion of the food, other items are present in much smaller amounts to add flavor, function as preservatives or because of their dietary benefits (e.g. probiotics, vitamins and minerals).

Examples:
Food A has the following ingredient list (first source of fat marked green):
Ground yellow corn, meat meal, chicken fat, ground wheat, chicken byproduct meal, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, salt, vitamins, minerals...

Food B has the following ingredient list (first source of fat marked green):
Turkey, chicken, chicken meal, ground barley, ground brown rice, potatoes, ground white rice, chicken fat, herring, apples, carrots, cottage cheese, sunflower oil, alfalfa sprouts, egg, garlic, probiotics, vitamins, minerals...

This is important to know when looking for ingredients that may not necessarily be harmful but should only be present in small amounts in a quality product (beet pulp, corn gluten meal etc.).
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Old August 14th, 2006, 07:01 PM
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finally got a reply from Old Mother Hubbard in regards to Wellness:

Quote:
Thank you for taking the time to write about Wellness Foods.

The Enhanced Dry Dog Food is now cooked using a slow extrusion process. We no longer bake the dry dog food.

Since 1926, Old Mother Hubbard has been working closely with veterinarians
and breeders to understand the nutritional requirements of animals. We
manufacture only the highest quality pet foods, using healthy, natural
ingredients. Our organization prides itself on making the best pet foods and
treats available today.

Sincerely,

Nicole Bibeau
Specialist
Consumer Affairs

... i guess it's pretty clear now, if you buy a bag that says BAKED... it's an old bag! check the expiry date....
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Old August 14th, 2006, 08:51 PM
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I emailed them a week before you TD and I still don't have an answer re the menadione.
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  #30  
Old August 15th, 2006, 11:02 AM
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Thank you technodoll for the update.

Bu they still bake the puppy formula right ??
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