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Old February 29th, 2008, 12:09 PM
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onster onster is offline
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Need help with cat food again

first id like to thank everyone on this forum for helping me know what food is better. I used to feed whiskas and food like that...ya i know

Anywyas...so I switched Onnie to Orijen a while back, before I got Hazel and he was doing fine fur wise (beautiful) as well as poop wise (tiny poops..yay). BUT hazel was not...the smelliest diarhea poop for the longest time. It was time to switch.

i switched to wellness and whilst hazel had better poo it was still loose...unfortunately this time onnie started suffering with his anal glands. I guess his poop was less firm too and so i had to get his anal glands expressed 3 times over a course of 4 months or so. He was also getting very fat (i think combination of orijen and wellnes and merick canned) and so wasnt grooming himself after these loose poops....ie. mommy onster always cleaning his bum.

It was particularly bad cuz of anal gland he would scoot that unclean bum across the floor. hardly sanitary.

Anywy so went to the vet...she made us switch to purina weight managament (which i know is bad food) BUT i needed to deal with both of their issues at the time. This is their 3rd or 4th bag...poop issues finally gone. No anal gland issues AND onnie has lost weight. BUT onnie's fur is a mess. It's alllllll dander and they both shed a lot.

I want to and know I have to swtich them to somehting better and maybe work on portion control but I dont know what else I should do because we neeed firm poop for anal gland issues as well as hazel's loose stool. Should I maybe supplement with something and give them wellness? I give them both yoghurt which they like.

I know the answer of raw/ canned food for obesity for Onnie, but I cant do this at this point (raw) because I live with my parents. As for canned I do give canned frequently, but giving them only canned would be impractical for me because I travel a lot for a few days here and there and also would be taking them with me overseeas in a year or 2, where the best option would be dried. I cant afford for them to get addicted to canned right now.

Ideas?
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Old February 29th, 2008, 12:38 PM
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try a sardine in their meals, Sasha's coat improved alot and her shedding has lessened.. pbp
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Old February 29th, 2008, 01:17 PM
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Anal gland issues can be tricky, but normally you would need to use a higher fiber diet (as in the weight management) not neccesarily just a firm stool.
Have you tried feeding just ONE type of dry, with the same type of canned? IE Wellness chicken/Wellness canned. As well some cats are lactose intollerant so that can also create loose stools.
Unfortunately in this case a grain free diet mat not work, as you need the bulk to "squeeze" the anal gland. Unless you are willing to add extra fiber.

http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=509
http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=1473
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 04:53 PM
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thanks patti, ill definately give sardines a go. wont they be too salty though?
Im guessing i should rinse them?

gypsygirl, thank u so much for that information. I was feeling so bad because I wanted to feed them high quality grain free..but honestly Onnie's anal gland issue was not helping. Ill look into adding fiber separately, but the thing is Onnie is very adamant about only eating kitty food....unless its cream cheese
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 04:55 PM
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I have never tried one type canned and the same type dry.

I did wellness dry and merrick canned for a while

Oh and interesting about the metamucil...I think when I take them in for their shots in april I will have a talk with the vet...thanks again.

Last edited by onster; March 3rd, 2008 at 04:58 PM.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 06:40 PM
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I got them some sardines today packed in oil, they seemed to like it

I also got them wellness indoor (im hoping it too is packed with fibre 4 anal glands) that im mixing in with their vet food .

I talked to the vet assistant today too when i picked up what hopefully will be their last bag of vet food (for transitioning) and she said for their fur to just supplement with omega-3 capsules (human kind)? This makes sense I guess since sardines are full of omega-3...


does anyone give their cats omega-3 capsules?
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Old March 5th, 2008, 12:41 AM
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You might not need to supplement if you are using a good quality food with a balanced Omega 3/6 profile provided it is using some kind of cold water fish oil. However you can supplement with Wild Salmon Oil, Krill Oil, Herring Oil etc. These can be purchased an most of the pet food stores. No need to use human ones, as they are significantly more $ and the quality of the wild stuff for pets is just as good IMHO
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Old March 5th, 2008, 01:42 AM
Deda Brada Deda Brada is offline
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Hi onster!
Did you try "Royal Canin" cat food? If you didn't, do it. I'd suggest two formulations: "Oral Sensitive 30" and "Light 37". Both have energy content lower than other "Royal Canin" formulations, especially "Light 37". "Oral Sensitive 30" has an additive which prevents forming of hair-balls inside cat's stomach, and it really works! In my cats, it has reduced vomiting with hair-balls about three times, maybe more. Besides, it has an additive which reduces dental plaque and tartar (they say so, I'm not sure it works). Your cat will get very firm stool, which is good for anal sacs problem. Each their food contains omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids and linoleic acid, which are all good for fur. Just try "Royal Canin" and you will not regret. If you find it expensive for everyday use, then buy omega 3 fatty acid (dietary supplement produced by "Now", "Twin Lab" etc). It is in the form of fish-oil, so you can easily mix it with cat food.

I think that it is not very good idea to feed with canned food when your cat has anal sacs problem.

Many regards from Deda Brada.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 03:28 AM
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2 products full of corn and gluten. Bad choice.
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  #10  
Old March 5th, 2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deda Brada View Post
Both have energy content lower than other "Royal Canin" formulations, especially "Light 37".
Ya, by lowering the protein and fat and increasing the carbohydrates, which is completely the wrong way of feeding cats. They need protein, they don't need carbs. Carbs are what makes cats fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deda Brada View Post
"Oral Sensitive 30" has an additive which prevents forming of hair-balls inside cat's stomach,
This "additive" is actually powdered cellulose. Essentially: wood pulp, aka pine sawdust. Since when did cats eat trees? The premise is that this extra 'fibre' pushes the hair through the digestive tract faster. There are better ways to deal with hairballs than feeding inappropriate ingredients to an obligate carnivore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deda Brada View Post
Besides, it has an additive which reduces dental plaque and tartar (they say so, I'm not sure it works).
More powdered cellulose. Supposedly acts as an abrasive on cat's teeth when chewed. Except that cat's don't chew. Their teeth are sharp and meant for shearing meat, not flat for grinding plants. And think about it, do you clean your teeth by chewing pretzels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deda Brada View Post
Your cat will get very firm stool, which is good for anal sacs problem.
Eating dry food will cause chronic dehydration, which will cause firm, dry stool, but this isn't a good thing. Constipation in cats is very common because of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deda Brada View Post
I think that it is not very good idea to feed with canned food when your cat has anal sacs problem.
I strongly disagree. The digestive system of a cat is not designed for high-fibre diets, it's designed for eating meat. Any anal sac problems are more likely a result of a lifetime of feeding inappropriate grainy kibble. Canned food is a much better idea, with a small amount of psyllium powder added if necessary (until the cat's GI tract can adapt to the lower, more natural volume of food passing through).
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Old March 5th, 2008, 10:31 AM
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Wellness is a good brand, right? I remember when I first started researching (here) it was between wellness and orijen.

Deda Brada, while I thank u very much for your input, I believe feeding royal canin would be equivalent ( or maybe a little better, ) to feeding vet food- which is what I am trying to get away from. I suggest you do some reading in pet food subforum (like I had to do) and I'm sure you will see where everyone is coming from.

gypsygirl thanks again for your suggestions, I will check for these supplements at the pet store.

Kinguni I know, thank you.

and finally sugarcatmom thanks u very much once again. I know you must be quite frustrated with me since you have discussed this with me before, and I understand (really) that canned/ raw food is better. Howeever, the general concensus is that canned food is not good for anal gland issues, perhaps the damage by kibble has already been done to Onnie now.

At this point I feed a can of canned food a day between the two of my cats and the rest is kibble. I'm feeding merrick canned and am just trying to find the best kibble to go along with that considering my cats' issues. I understand that might not be 'best' for them, but it is the best I can do now.

Last edited by onster; March 5th, 2008 at 10:34 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 10:57 AM
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oh and welcome to the boards deda
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Old March 5th, 2008, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onster View Post
and finally sugarcatmom thanks u very much once again. I know you must be quite frustrated with me since you have discussed this with me before, and I understand (really) that canned/ raw food is better. Howeever, the general concensus is that canned food is not good for anal gland issues, perhaps the damage by kibble has already been done to Onnie now.
Oh gosh, no, I’m not frustrated with you onster! Sorry if it seems that way. I totally know you’re doing the best that you can given the circumstances, and for that you should be applauded. No, my frustration is reserved for the pet food companies that have created all these problems in our cats in the first place by convincing us that it’s perfectly fine, even desirable, to be feeding them this crap. And to add insult to injury, they then market more of the same crap, just in a different bag, in an attempt to address the issues that they caused in the first place!! “If I had a rocket launcher…”

I’m sorry that I can’t recommend a dry food for you. I truly believe that there is no such thing as a “good” one, but some are less bad than others. Obviously grain-free would be the way to go, but you already know that. So the options are Orijen, Wellness Core, Innova Evo, Nature’s Variety Instinct, Solid Gold Indigo Moon, and maybe some others I’m not familiar with. You could always try getting a bunch of sample packs from your local store and seeing what agrees most with your kitties. Good luck!
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Old March 5th, 2008, 03:32 PM
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oh good ..lol i just assumed u would be (ive asked about cat food quite a lot)

I'll try my best with dry kibble for now Thanks again.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:19 PM
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Onster, have you tried adding a bit of canned plain pumpkin to the food for the anal gland issue? If they don't like that then Growler says to add baby food squash instead as some cats prefer the taste better. She recommends Heinz Organics or Earth Organics butternut squash.

Good luck.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 02:12 AM
Deda Brada Deda Brada is offline
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Dear sugarcatmom

I don't want to argue, but I barely agree with you that 37% of proteins in "Light 37" is low content! Which is the content in canned food? I can hardly imagine any of my cats eating 300 grams (some 10.6 oz) of canned food daily (which is recommended by producers). I agree, the content of carbohydrates is very, very high. On the other hand, metabolism of carbohydrates doesn't produce such waste products as ammonia, so it frees liver from transforming it to urea which kidneys have to excrete in urine. Cats do need lot of proteins in their food, but not only as the source of energy but also as the source of essential amino acids. Nowadays, amino acids are common dietary supplement, too.

I have been feeding "Royal Canin" for years now, and I am very satisfied. Look at their declarations, then look at "AAFCO Nutrient Profiles for Cats" and tell me what you see.

Yes, cat doesn't eat trees, but it eats cellulose which is normal content of her prey's intestines. "Some experts hypothesize that a diet higher in fiber will create firmer stools, thus facilitating the expression of anal sac substance" (http://cats.about.com ...). Have you ever read something like this? I have, many times. Why do cats need grass, and chew it whenever is possible? Besides, "Psyllium contains a high level of soluble dietary fiber, and is the chief ingredient in many commonly used bulk laxatives" (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...-psyllium.html).

Premolars shear, molars chew. Couple of months ago one of my kids needed teeth cleaning and the doctor who did it told me that her gums around her molars had swelled so she couldn't had chewed at all.

And in the end, remember one thing: nobody knows everything!

Kindest regards from Deda
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Old March 6th, 2008, 08:15 AM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deda Brada View Post
And in the end, remember one thing: nobody knows everything!

Kindest regards from Deda
I'd don't have time to get into this right now, but you might be interested in some further reading on feline nutrition (while I certainly don't know everything, this IS something I know an awful lot about). Here are some links to get you started:
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
http://www.catinfo.org/
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...needcannedfood
http://all-about-cats.com/rebuttal.htm

When you're done that, we can debate the merits of Royal Canin (of which there are none).
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