#31
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#32
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Degree, your comments are immature and unintelligent. Please read the report of the investigation conducted by zoocheck. It's all the proof I need to decide whether or not Guha's is a place I'd want to spend my money.
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"One cat just leads to another." - Ernest Hemingway Meowy Meowers - Angus n' Finn - 5 yrs old Barky Barker - Skylar - 4 yrs old?? |
#33
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Degree - I'm sorry, but you do come across as yelling and angry, not at all logical in your responses, what comes across is anger, confusion, and a desperate need to change the views of your friend to the general public. But I guess that's understandable since you know these people and take part in the animal care and have fist hand knowledge of the operations of this place. Is that correct? Calling us stupid and idiots becuase of our feeling towards the news clip and general care for the animals doesn't make you any better.
Remember...Persuasion is better then force. My mind shut down after your first insult, why would I bother reading what you had to say. If you want to get positive word out there, and support and understanding of the general public and animal lovers alike please change your approach, it's not working, and back it with the true facts rather then say...'if you believe what you read, your an idiot". To me, your anger doesn't make me believe you, it makes me think you are hiding something, back tracking, covering up what the media presented. Ok, so it was a freak accident as you say. Since you have inside information, please tell us what is being done to prevent a simular freak accident. I am interested to know what's being done to prevent this from happening again, accidents happen we all get that, but they are preventable. If you have first hand knowledge and feel as passionate as you do about this person and his animals, then please share some of the positive info with us...
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Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!! If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet! 221/194/170(for next year) |
#34
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I just read the report. :sad:
I still back what I said above in regards to your approach. But now I have to ask, how can anyone think that is a better life for an animal? This is an offical report, not gossip, not rumors, how can this be disputed. Oh, and the report was 2006...why was this place kept open?? I feel bad for all the animals, but especially the lone wolf. :sad: Wolves shouldn't be alone. :sad: Even tho his intentions were to help save these animals, as with animal horders, and the chinese companies that cage the moon bears. :sad: Doesn't make it right.
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Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!! If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet! 221/194/170(for next year) |
#35
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I am sorry,but I think it is an absolute outrage that roadside Zoos even exists in this country,makes me sick,to be honest.
This man Nandu might have taken good care of his animals and loved them,by taking good care,it probably means feed them and keep their cages clean. However these beautiful animals should never,ever have to live in cages,it's horrible way for an animal to excist and should never be allowed.IMO We can hardly compare,a housecat or a dog getting out,with a Panther escaping his prison,for whatever reason. No,I do not symphatize with Mr Nandu,my sympathy lies with the animals,including the poor dog.
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"The cruelest animal is the Human animal" 3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie |
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I would just like to say...maybe this was an accident. But it was one that seemed to be inevitable. I'm sure Nanda cared for these animals, however, I went to the zoo check website and saw the pictures of how these animals were living and I was appalled at their living conditions! The living areas were small and they had nothing for them to play with. They didn't seem to have any indoor private areas to escape weather. And their water!!!! Green and dirty. So green in one of the pictures you would have thought the bucket was green...but it wasn't. The students said they wouldn't drink fresh water...are you kidding? I'm sure the love was there from Nanda and I really don't want to judge him but if your finances don't allow you to have adequate housing for your animals your love for them should be strong enough to find them a better home.
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OH MY
This is just insane Im not on any side here, BUT I do agree however that roadside zoo's or "sanctuaries" or what ever should be governed in some way. But not that they should be illegal. I just think perhaps more education or strict policies on how the animals are contained should be in place. Now, this escape and tragedy isnt very far from me either, thankfully nothing worse happened, it is very sad that the dog and Jaguar were both killed, very sad. But whats with the attacks on the guy who had the animals? Im sorry but I have had many "accidents" in my house with my domesticated pets. For example: Kita breaking Larrys leg accidently while they were running in the house, Karma puncturing Kitas trachea accidently while wrestling My Rottie Kiera attacking Meiko over a milk bone and puncturing his face Meiko biting Kitas leg accidently while both of them were playing frisbee trust me the list goes on and on.... Does this all of a sudden make me a bad person too? I mean, sure everything turned out fine, and all of the animals in question were given medical attention and so on, also granted my domestic pets are not animals that were born wild either, but still, sometimes wild animals can not be wild anymore. Accidents happen, S*** happens. Its just the way things go. Now we can all sit here and attack this person for owning this cat that should not be in Ontario, that is suffering in a cage with others ect ect... And we can all jump to conclusions on how he isnt taking proper care of the animals, he is careless and wreakless and so on. Which lets face it we all have our moments of jumping to such conclusions. However what gets me is, if he is doing such an evil or horrible thing by having these cats... why did the OPP do the report on the news calmly, seriously and relieved that nothing worse happened due to the owners quick descision to call them as fast as he did. And now that he is in the "spotlight" with animal activists and pet lovers, why does he still have the animals??? Maybe, just maybe, he is doing a decent job with them Funny how we havent heard anything from him before no? Maybe if he had been brought to our attention a few months ago about this most of you would have been saying how wonderful it is that he is doing what he is doing for the animals, but sadly now that a fellow pet lover had an incident, the people who perhaps should be more interested in helping in some way are now attacking him. I find it sad that when someone does try to do something to help there is an angry mob who is quick to attack as soon as something isnt done exactly how they would like to see it done, or as soon as something goes wrong. I think instead of everyone focusing all their anger and attention on the man who owned these animals, perhaps we all should be focusing on preventing these wild animals from ending up in places like this in the first place, maybe these things wouldnt happen. So, I am far more intersted in where these cats came from, and why he has them in the first place, and I would far more like to attack the people who had the animals previously. Perhaps this is just me though
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Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyways. ~John Wayne |
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You really should read the report that Stacer linked to.
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"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb “We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler |
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Alright then...
Seeing as though from that link, they have investigated in August 2006 and May 2003 by a Rob Laidlaw for Ruby Edward law firm, why did he still have the animals? If it was as bad as these people say it is, why were they still there? I dont get it. Forgive me, but it just seems that too many things dont add up. If it were indeed that unsafe, who allowed him to keep the animals?
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Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyways. ~John Wayne |
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Because the municipality doesn't have any existing laws to cover this situation. What he is doing is probably perfectly legal. That's part of the problem. We all know it. Animals in this province, in this country, have the same rights as a toaster. :sad: We don't have to love our dogs and cats, as long as we give them enough food and water to survive and bring them to the vet when they are obviously sick (or, at least, if we don't get caught doing otherwise), that's all they need, right?
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. - Dilbert |
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I'm confused. I thought that a "lack of potable water" was grounds for fines, charges, or removal of the animal by the OSPCA? Are exotic animals exempt from this law? Does it only apply to livestock and domesticated pets?
I'm also wondering why this guy was in business if Zoo Check AND the MNR had reasons to believe that his animals were not being properly cared for. |
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And, Degree, I'm very sorry if I was over-zealous in my initial reaction to this news story. It was a little too close for comfort. I still don't like the situation, though. I firmly believe that the enclosures are too small and poorly constructed, from what I saw on the news reports. I also believe that these animals shouldn't be kept in this climate. They weren't built for it. I feel this is true for any zoo or sanctuary that cannot provide heated indoor areas for non-native animals, not just this particular sanctuary. As for the rest of that report ... if it's true, then I pray that the deaths of these two wonderful creatures will at least lend some impetus to local governments to draft up regulations to change things for the better for the other animals currently in similar situations across the province.
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. - Dilbert |
#43
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Many people go quietly unnoticed in their neglect of pets. I don't think it's funny how we haven't heard anything about him until now. That's how things work, you don't hear about someone until they do something wrong. Anyway, some people have heard of him and have investigated him. Like another member said, there're no municipal laws to govern his activities and the OSPCA has asked for greater power in these types of situations and is getting no where with the government. I think this man MUST answer for what happened. It IS his fault. Sure animals will be animals, but large exotic predators that should be kept in secure compounds should not be able to get loose under any circumstances. Quote:
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"One cat just leads to another." - Ernest Hemingway Meowy Meowers - Angus n' Finn - 5 yrs old Barky Barker - Skylar - 4 yrs old?? |
#44
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Actually , in Quebec , I think my toaster has more rights.
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All the big cages had double door entry's, pretty much everyone did cept the one couger cage. Most the cages were pretty big, I wouldnt say they were huge but they were all pretty decent sizes, there was the 1 couger cage that was small but since 2006 there was 6 bigger cages built. I wouldnt say there was any problems with the construction of the cages, Bino was the first problem with any escape in all of Guha's history. He was only one man who had a few helpers who would help from time to time. All the animals were fed great and always had attention from nanda, he treated them like his own children. There was always construction building bigger cages and what not, was always working on making it bigger and better for the animals. Nanda isnt a super rich person so he did the best he could do, he is also older so its hard for him to do so much by him self. He is a 9th generation lion and tiger handler, he has been around these kind of animals all his life, he talks to them, even lays down with them in the cages and keep them company. It is very sad what happend. Animals have escaped from zoo's, crazy things happen. Obviously the cages could have been bigger, stronger, but I think any animal cage should be bigger, in zoo's or anywhere. He did the best he can do, he has had these kind of animals his whole life, this first problem. I see all these comments from people who have seen" pics " on the net, or news articles. Those people who did the report and gave nanda guha's a bad report wanted to take all the aniamls, and they would have killed them all. The reason they didnt is because many people protested to keep them alive, so now that you people know that. I never seen anyone come to Guha's and say OMG poor animals, they all thought it was great that he was doing this. Now somehting bad happens and everyone wants to say bad things. Nanda Guha is the nicest person I have ever met in my life, and very interesting, I have never seen anyone care so much about animals my whole life. He works 24/7 for them and does all he can. I didnt mean to come off angry, but the truth is i am because everysingle person who has posted doesnt know him in person and hasnt actually seen what it was like, I love all the animals there and they all seem very happy, when you go there as much as me you really get to know the animals, and they get to know you. It isnt a horible place like some people make it out to be, its actually a pretty happy place. I just hope if they take the aniamls away they dont kill them all, they are all beautiful. http://multimedia.simcoe.com/images/...3da1508dd.jpeg Last edited by Degree; February 15th, 2008 at 09:33 PM. |
#46
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__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb “We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler |
#47
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Degree,you know this man and like this man,but this story is not really about him,it's about suffering exotic animals.
I look at tigers,lions and others exotics on display in cages in Third World Countries,pacing back and forth,with a dead look in their eyes,totally hopeless,it's enough to make you cry. WE should do better than that,but as far as animals are concerned our laws are a disgrace,compared to many other civilized countries,that includes domestic and wild animals and our responsability to protect them from harm. I have no idea where this man got his animals,but a sanctuary,should be a sanctuary,where animals can live as close to their natural habitat as possible. A CAGE is not a sanctuary,it's a prison Ideally they should all live where they belong,but since they are here to be displayed to us,they should be kept in the best possible safe way. I did not look at any pics,do not want to ruin a sunny beautiful day.I would do so only if there was a happy ending to this story,but there is none:sad:
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"The cruelest animal is the Human animal" 3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie |
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Something was previously mentioned stating that people who want to have these road side zoos should keep only animals that are native to the climates in the area and I really agree with that. However, I think people should have proper permits and liscensing (very expensive permits and liscensing), be forced to have tranquilizer guns on hand, be evaluated every 3-4 months, and should also be forced to provide a proper habitat for these animals to live in. A snowy cage is no place for a jaguar. The words snow and cage should not even be in the same sentence as the word Jaguar EVER. Also, the guy who owned these animals could have been my mother for all I care, there are certain protocols and proceedures that need to be followed when caring for an animal of this size, and obviously something was missed here. I don't think how good of a person this guy was has anything to do with it, this accident was inevitable, and could have easily been prevented. I don't think it takes me or anyone else to go out there in person to see that, the video shows the cages, what more difference would it make if we all went there and saw the cages when we've already seen them on video... a picture is worth a thousand words is how the old saying goes... but a video has to be worth more right? Its high time that the laws in this country became stricter regarding animals... And Frenchy, your comment about your toaster having more rights in Quebec hits the nail right on the head...
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#49
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Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyways. ~John Wayne |
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#51
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Yes ditto to that SCM and shame on Ontario and British Colombia
I was always under the impression,keeping exotics was NOT permitted anywhere in Canada. OMG was I wrong So,why then am I not allowed to keep chickens in my backyard for fresh eggs???
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"The cruelest animal is the Human animal" 3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie |
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Last edited by Degree; February 17th, 2008 at 01:58 PM. |
#53
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We're all entitled to our own opinions on this roadside zoo whether you like it or not.
Your friend may love these animals a great deal. You obviously think a great deal of your friend. Bottom line is the welfare of these animals. Big cats need exercise and big cages to be able to do that. That's not what your friend is able to provide. My entire house is just barely big enough for my 3 domestic cats to get the exercise they need and the toys and trees and other things I provide to keep their bodies fit and their minds active. All the love and food in the world isn't enough if the exercise and the mental stimulas can't be provided as well. Fine for the short term, but no life for any animal long term. Cindy |
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Degree,I am not going to argue with you about this,the fact remains,this beautiful Jaguar is dead,as well as the poor dog:sad:
I would assume most "zoo-keepers"would be equipped to handle situations like this,on their own,with tranquiliser-guns or a real gun,should he need it. Also,most animals are happy when they see food coming,a distraction in their otherwise uneventful life. I think we have said it all on this subject,I am hoping all his animals will be moved,to a place where they'll have shelter from the cold and a proper area to play and exersize,seeing they can never be put back in the wild:sad:
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"The cruelest animal is the Human animal" 3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie |
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