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  #61  
Old June 11th, 2009, 05:43 AM
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Hi Sugarcatmom,

Thank you for the feedback. When I tasted a small bit on my figure I knew that there is no way that I was going to get it into her. I did go out and purchase HMF powder by Genestra, do you think that might be enough? When I look in Muffy's mouth, it does not seem to be ulcers, it only the one tooth, so it must be a bit of an infection.
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  #62  
Old June 11th, 2009, 07:19 AM
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m.scott,thank dog for SCM,hopefully you can get another option from the vet for Muffy,like SCM says
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  #63  
Old June 11th, 2009, 06:26 PM
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Hi Chico2,

Thank you for the kind words. Things just seem to keep poping up all the time now! I hope that if we can get this under control (now with Baytril in pill form) that she will be more comfortable. We just got her blood work back and she has mild anemia, so we have bumped up the B-plex wtih iron and giving it orally rather than with food now (making sure she gets enough). it should correct it in the next week or so, I hope!
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Old June 12th, 2009, 10:45 AM
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Hi M scott:

sorry to hear of everything and your loss. You are a good kitty mom for taking care of kitty. My cat has CRF too. so I am reading your post with interest.

The evo canned venison is .77 phosphorus so I am going to buy some toorrow and hope simba likes it and eats it!

Take care
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Last edited by meow; June 12th, 2009 at 11:01 AM.
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  #65  
Old June 12th, 2009, 04:19 PM
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Hi Meow,

Sorry to hear that you are as well dealing with CRF It's a tough run and my second time around in a year with this disease, but I know more this time around.

The EVo is great. Muffy took to it like crazy, which I am happy about, since it's so low in Phos. I alternate it with the Chicken/Turkey one, it's seems to be "looser" than the venison.
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  #66  
Old June 12th, 2009, 08:43 PM
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Hi Meow,

Sorry to hear that you are as well dealing with CRF It's a tough run and my second time around in a year with this disease, but I know more this time around.

The EVo is great. Muffy took to it like crazy, which I am happy about, since it's so low in Phos. I alternate it with the Chicken/Turkey one, it's seems to be "looser" than the venison.
MS: I have a very stubborn cat who has never eaten any canned in her life. so..............
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  #67  
Old June 13th, 2009, 07:27 AM
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I am not having much luck with the constipation issue. I have been using the Salmon oil (by Plato) and giving a good 1 1/2 pumps in every meal. Muffy still seems to struggle with her BM's and a few times has been sick right after leaving the litter box. I was going to try Slippery Elm Bark, but since it contains calcium I want to stay away from that.

Any other suggestions? Should I try to give her more than that in each meal? I guess the worse case issue might be really loose BM's
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  #68  
Old June 13th, 2009, 09:50 PM
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The vomiting after straining in the litterbox is common of constipation.

How is she taking to the amount of salmon oil currently added to her food? You wouldn't want to turn her off eating it by adding too much.

I would try the slippery elm bark, the blood calcium levels you posted earlier are not so high that I would worry too much about adding a little SEB.

Are you adding a tsp or two of water to the canned food? Thats helps to slow the digestion of water down a little and allow for a little more time in the bowels.

Have you tried pure butternut squash baby food? a teaspoon twice a day worked well for Duffy, then I moved on to the salmon oil.
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  #69  
Old June 14th, 2009, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growler View Post
The vomiting after straining in the litterbox is common of constipation.

How is she taking to the amount of salmon oil currently added to her food? You wouldn't want to turn her off eating it by adding too much.
I have increased the Salmon oil and she does not seem to mind, but again I don't want to push my luck with it.

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I would try the slippery elm bark, the blood calcium levels you posted earlier are not so high that I would worry too much about adding a little SEB.
Is there any issue with the SEM tasting bitter? With Munchkin, I could not find pure SEM and had to use it from a tea form, do you think that wholefoods sells it? I was thinking that might be the best place to try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by growler View Post
Are you adding a tsp or two of water to the canned food? Thats helps to slow the digestion of water down a little and allow for a little more time in the bowels.
Since the Salmon oil makes the food more liquidy, I stopped adding the water to her food, I will start that again today. I also switched the food to the Wellness Turkey like you recommened and she seems to be eating better again.

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Originally Posted by growler View Post
Have you tried pure butternut squash baby food? a teaspoon twice a day worked well for Duffy, then I moved on to the salmon oil.
Can just add this to her food? I guess that's the easiest way to get it into her. Do you think that I can still add a pump of the Salmon oil and the butternut squash at the same time? I wanted to keep the Omega 3 fatty acids in her food.
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  #70  
Old June 14th, 2009, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.scott View Post
Is there any issue with the SEM tasting bitter? With Munchkin, I could not find pure SEM and had to use it from a tea form, do you think that wholefoods sells it? I was thinking that might be the best place to try.
I haven't needed to try SEB so that question is better directed at SCM who has used it- maybe send her a private message to be sure she see it. Also haven't been in wholefoods so I don't know what they carry Do you have a health food store in your area? They would carry it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.scott View Post
Since the Salmon oil makes the food more liquidy, I stopped adding the water to her food, I will start that again today. I also switched the food to the Wellness Turkey like you recommened and she seems to be eating better again.
Start with a small amount of water ~ 1/2 - 1 teaspoon. See how Muffy accepts the extra liquid in the food.

Good to hear Muffy is eating better

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Can just add this to her food? I guess that's the easiest way to get it into her. Do you think that I can still add a pump of the Salmon oil and the butternut squash at the same time? I wanted to keep the Omega 3 fatty acids in her food.
Butternut squash & salmon oil together should be fine. I found the easiest way was freezing the bns in ice cube trays in the amount needed ie 1 teaspoon per cube, then you can just add one frozen chunk to the food.
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  #71  
Old June 14th, 2009, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.scott View Post
Is there any issue with the SEM tasting bitter? With Munchkin, I could not find pure SEM and had to use it from a tea form, do you think that wholefoods sells it? I was thinking that might be the best place to try.
I personally don't find it bitter, but who knows how a cat would interpret it. The closest thing I can think of is that it tastes kinda like raw almonds. It's very mild. The biggest factor influencing a cat's like or dislike of something is smell, so if you can hide the smell (and it doesn't smell like much, but a cat's sense of smell is exponentially better than ours) in something else with a stronger smell, like chicken baby food, then it should be fairly easy to administer. Start with a very teensy amount, like 1/8th of a tsp or 1/8th of a capsule, depending on what's available. Make sure if you get capsules that it doesn't have anything else added. I'm not familiar with slippery elm tea but I imagine it's a much coarser texture. The powder is extremely fine.
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  #72  
Old June 14th, 2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growler View Post
Start with a small amount of water ~ 1/2 - 1 teaspoon. See how Muffy accepts the extra liquid in the food.

Good to hear Muffy is eating better
Earlier today I added 2 tsp to the food along with the Salmon oil and if went down fine, I will ensure to keep adding that to the food. The Wellness is going over great, she's just woofing it down (no pun intended there)



Quote:
Originally Posted by growler View Post
Butternut squash & salmon oil together should be fine. I found the easiest way was freezing the bns in ice cube trays in the amount needed ie 1 teaspoon per cube, then you can just add one frozen chunk to the food.
Great Idea I was just trying to think of the best way to freeze it. Seems a shame to throw out 3/4's of a jar since you can only keep it for 3-days after opening.
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  #73  
Old June 14th, 2009, 08:02 PM
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I personally don't find it bitter, but who knows how a cat would interpret it. The closest thing I can think of is that it tastes kinda like raw almonds. It's very mild.
Hi SCM! I bought the SEM today, but will try the course of Samlon Oil and the Butternut Squash and see what happens. Muffy does not seem to mind it, so far so good The only kind I could find was Nature's Way in Capsules, the only other thing in it is Magnesium Stearate, so you think that's ok?
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Old June 14th, 2009, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.scott View Post
Earlier today I added 2 tsp to the food along with the Salmon oil and if went down fine, I will ensure to keep adding that to the food. The Wellness is going over great, she's just woofing it down (no pun intended there)
Excellent

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Great Idea I was just trying to think of the best way to freeze it. Seems a shame to throw out 3/4's of a jar since you can only keep it for 3-days after opening.
When the ones in the tray are frozen you can dump them into a freezer bag & finish the rest of the jar that way. No need to warm before putting it in the food, the added water will do that for you.
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  #75  
Old June 14th, 2009, 10:54 PM
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Hi SCM! I bought the SEM today, but will try the course of Samlon Oil and the Butternut Squash and see what happens.
Good idea. Not adding everything at once helps you figure out what might be working and what isn't.

Quote:
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The only kind I could find was Nature's Way in Capsules, the only other thing in it is Magnesium Stearate, so you think that's ok?
Yup, that's fine. Magnesium stearate is primarily in the capsule itself and is considered safe.
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  #76  
Old June 16th, 2009, 05:52 PM
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Hi SCM. Muffy has had a bowel movement now, but it seems to be a struggle still. I have added the butternut to the food for the past 2-days, along with a pump of salmon oil, but still no real improvements.

The challenge is that Muffy keeps urinating on our bed, every day! I have put puppy pads down and towels on the top. Reading the Felinecrf site, it states that the usual cause for elimination outside the litter box is constipation or possibly a UTI, but we cleaned that up and have Muffy on antibiotics again for her mouth.

I was planning on the SEB as a last resort as I won't be able to add any thing to the food, like the b-plex etc.

Any other suggestions before going down that road? it seemed last night that Muffy pushed so hard that she almost fell over in the litter box
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Old June 16th, 2009, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by m.scott View Post
I was planning on the SEB as a last resort as I won't be able to add any thing to the food, like the b-plex etc.

Any other suggestions before going down that road? it seemed last night that Muffy pushed so hard that she almost fell over in the litter box
Aww poor Muffy. How is her anemia doing? What about her potassium levels? I'm wondering if part of it is that she's getting weaker, making it harder for her to push, and also to crouch in the poop position for very long.

As for administering the SEB, does she like baby food at all? I find the easiest way to get it into a cat is to mix the SEB with a tbsp of something really tasty (yogurt is another option if she likes that). Then you don't have to put it in her regular food if you're putting other meds/supplements in there. As long as you give it about an hour or so on either side of her other supplements, it won't interfere with their absorption.
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Old June 17th, 2009, 08:53 AM
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Hi SCM,

Muffy's last bllod work indicated that the potassium level is 4.5 (reference 3.7 - 5.8), so right in the middle. I am not sure what other ways to check on the anemia other than looking in her mouth to see the colour, but I have increased the B-Vits. and iron to almost double to hopefully correct it. She has more energy, so I expect that it's working.

Great idea on the SEB, I have not tried her on babyfood or yoghurt, but can give it a try.

THX again, as always!
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  #79  
Old June 17th, 2009, 10:11 AM
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m.scott - Herbie, one of my cats suffers from constipation, moreso in winter - I have started mixing water with his canned food to a souplike consistency and have noticed considerably less straining....when he eats, first off he drinks all of the water and then chows down. If he hasn't finished, I then add more water.

Come to think of it, maybe I'm overdoing it, I don't know
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Old June 19th, 2009, 07:27 AM
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Hi Chris21711.

Muffy ssems to just taste her food a bit and walk away. By the time she decides to eat it drying up.

It seems that we have a winner with the SEB though! Muffy had a BM 2 nights in a row! never though it would get excited over that

SCM, it seems that the 1/8 of a capsule is working . good idea to start small and move up from there.

Muffy's eating is getting back to normal, still still urinated on our bed 2 times yesterday :sad:
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Old June 19th, 2009, 02:54 PM
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Stomach Acid?

Hi SCM, i tried to send a direct message but not sure if it worked so here is a repeat.

Muffy has been on Baytril now for 8-days for what we thought might be an infection in he mouth. I am now thinking it's more of a stomach acid issue that may have caused mouth ulcers. She won't really let you look in there, but the look I did get was really red on her "EYE' teeth, mostly the left side. She is drooling on that side as well. She is always licking her lips and the FelineCRF site says it's most likely stomach acid. She ate like crazy the past 2-days and slowed down again today

I can a call into the vet, but wondered if you have tried Pepcid AC before? would increasing the SEB help with it?
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Old June 19th, 2009, 03:30 PM
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I can a call into the vet, but wondered if you have tried Pepcid AC before? would increasing the SEB help with it?
Got your message, but I'll reply here too. I have used Pepcid before in cats and it does work if stomach acid is indeed the issue. Certainly won't hurt to try since it's a fairly safe med. Usual dose is 1/4 of a 10mg tablet (make sure it's Pepcid AC and not Pepcid Complete or any other variation).

Where the SEB might be useful is if you were to make a syrup with it and syringe some into her mouth. Easier said than done, I know. The syrup has a soothing/coating effect, but if it's very stressful to do that then it might not be worth it. I know my guy has very little tolerance for me fiddling with his mouth. Perhaps Muffy would eat a tbsp of the syrup mixed with a tsp or 2 of yogurt? That might still give her some oral benefits. Glad to hear that the SEB is at least helping her poopage!
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  #83  
Old June 19th, 2009, 03:52 PM
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mscott,nothing on this Forum is as exciting as good poop
I am glad the SEB is working

SCM,would PepcidAC work on Rocky's runny poop??
The SEB although I have not given him much,does not seem to do the trick.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 04:19 PM
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SCM,would PepcidAC work on Rocky's runny poop??
The SEB although I have not given him much,does not seem to do the trick.
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I don't think the Pepcid would have much effect on poop, it's action is more focused on the stomach rather than the intestines. I don't really know what else might help Rocky, except possibly probiotics. There's also psyllium husk, which does help some cats, but it's an insoluble fiber and can be a bit harsh. You have to make sure it's mixed with extra water or it can be constipating. Might be worth trying just a very small amount, like 1/8th of a tsp, to see what happens. Like SEB, you can mix it with food.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 04:34 PM
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Thank's SCM,maybe I'll first try to be a bit more vigilant with the SEB,give him some every meal.
I think the runny poop is from the Tapazole,since it started when he started his meds.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 08:23 AM
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Hi SCM

I spoke to the vet and she does not want to try the pepcid AC
she is concerned with the build up effects in the body, since the
kidneys have to process it. She also said that stomach acid would not
create mouth ulcers, but the higher urea levels will.

We are trying traumeel in each water dish for inflamation and will see if that works. I should not have stopped the probiotics. I started again yesterday and only missed 2days. Yesterday was a really rough day for her, but today seems to be much better. We are going to get some herbs from the vet on Friday that should help with stomach and digestive issues, including constipation.

I'll let you know what they are when I get them.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 01:25 AM
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You can ask your vet about using Zantac instead. My crf Duffy was recently hospitalized in the ER vets & they used zantac to control her stomach acid.

According to Tanya's site some have found pepcid ac causes vomiting in a small number of cats, and some have found the zantac may also help with constipation.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 04:23 PM
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Hi Growler,

THX for the info! I will ask the vet when she is here on Friday. I know she is bringing some herbs to too if it will help with the stomach acid and the constipation. She is still concerned about the build up in the body and more pressure on the kidney's.

On a separate note, is it ok to feed Muffy yoghurt? Are cats really lactose intolerant? I haven't had any issues with using it to mask the SEB.Muffy LOVES it and goes nuts over it. When she stops eating I have been adding a bit to her food and then she licks the bowl clean, but only when needed.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 04:43 PM
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I am sure it's ok to give her yogurt,as long as it's plain yogurt,my cats would not even try it
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 07:17 PM
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I am sure it's ok to give her yogurt,as long as it's plain yogurt,my cats would not even try it
I am giving her organic yoghurt, plain only. She goes crazy over it, as soon as I put it down she just gobbles it up. I know that some sites state many cats are lactose intolerant, but she seems to handle it just fine

I am sure glad that she is hooked on something that I can get food into her with!
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