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Old May 13th, 2007, 03:00 PM
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Are dogs carnivores or omnivores?

I thought dogs were carnivores however I keep seeing conflicting information. I'm just curious if anyone has any thoughts about this?
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Old May 13th, 2007, 05:09 PM
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From what I know, they're carnivores, but not obligate carnivores. They can eat other stuff, but they aren't built to digest it as well as they do meat. Cats are obligate carnivores. They absolutely need meat.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 06:37 PM
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That's the way I understand it as well.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 08:51 PM
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Thanks. Seems a bit confusing but I guess it makes sense.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 09:26 PM
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Prin is right. Certain breeds (like dalmations) don't all do well on meat at all, and often require a vegetarian diet. Depending on where you read, there is a lot of conflicting information as to what they are (carnivore vs omnivore), but cats (of course) are true carnivores. We have a couple dogs at my work (two, if memory serves me right) who have tested positive for allergies to all animal proteins... strange as that sounds...
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Old May 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM
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Ooo very interesting! I was curious too because I've seen people on the fourm get a lot of flack for trying vegetarian diets with thier dogs.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 04:39 AM
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Suppose there are many different opinions on this. Our vet, who is a holistic vet and also teaches at Guelph, claims dogs are no longer carnivores whereas cats are true carnivores.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 06:29 AM
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Like Prin stated, Cats are obligate Carnivores. unlike dogs cats cannot produce Taurine. So they MUST eat meat. Dogs however, do not have this requirement, however they are Carnivores. But yeah, there is a lot of conflicting information on this topic.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 07:27 AM
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dogs are deemed to be "adapted omnivores", ie carnivores that can and do survive on diets that include other things than meat. that doesn't mean that the non-meat things are good for them, though. it just won't kill them.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:13 AM
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Just like to add that dogs could go without eating if they had to. But cats can't ,if they stop eating it's very important to get them to a vet. because there liver turns fatty and they can die.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:25 AM
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A diet to high in protien is not good for a dog .They are omnivores by nature ,in the wild they would eat all of the animal thus getting grain,veg. etc. and not just meat.To much meat or I should say and all meat diet is not good for the Kidneys, they have to work to hard.All dogs are individuals and you must keep that in mind, a couch potato is going to thrive on a much different diet then a very active dog.That being said ,be careful out there, a vet wen't on line answering questions about the recall and said and I quote"I wouldn't feed my dog Purina even if doesn't get recalled,it's a bag of corn"
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Old May 14th, 2007, 10:06 AM
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actually in the wild, unless wild canines ingest a very small and whole prey (ie mouse, rat, etc), it will shake out the stomach contents. see http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html for reference. and although canines will ingest grasses and berries at random, they are excreted or vomited mostly intact, ie not digested.

a raw diet is not high in protein. a cooked grainless kibble is dehydrated and thus artificially high in protein. in a natural state, no animal would eat a dehydrated diet. meats are ingested with the water content, thus diluting the overall protein.

i do wonder what the long-term effects of such a high-protein diet is. it will be interesting to see what "science" comes up with
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Old May 14th, 2007, 11:24 AM
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Agreed!

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Originally Posted by technodoll View Post
actually in the wild, unless wild canines ingest a very small and whole prey (ie mouse, rat, etc), it will shake out the stomach contents. see http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html for reference. and although canines will ingest grasses and berries at random, they are excreted or vomited mostly intact, ie not digested.

a raw diet is not high in protein. a cooked grainless kibble is dehydrated and thus artificially high in protein. in a natural state, no animal would eat a dehydrated diet. meats are ingested with the water content, thus diluting the overall protein.

i do wonder what the long-term effects of such a high-protein diet is. it will be interesting to see what "science" comes up with
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

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Old May 14th, 2007, 12:17 PM
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I agree with Spirit- some breeds and some individual dogs have a higher requirement for veggies than others. Boo, for example, needs way more veg than Jemma. Jemma can do without veg completely.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 05:33 PM
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I just studied this as part of my canine nutrition program.

My medical book states that cats are strictly CARNIVORES & dogs have evolved into OMNIVORES. Their reasoning has to do with the presence of extra molars & premolars within dogs' mouths, which suggests that they are meant to chew & crush plant-based foods as well as meat & bone.

But, that's just what my medical book says-I'm sure there's information that states otherwise.

Last edited by Goldens4Ever; May 14th, 2007 at 05:35 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 05:40 PM
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yeah... better information like this

http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

also http://www.geocities.com/havens_home/feedraw.htm - scroll down a bit and see the photos.

dogs may be "adapted omnivores" but they are certainly still carnivores, first and above anything else.
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Last edited by technodoll; May 14th, 2007 at 05:43 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:23 PM
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I thought the front teeth were for plants.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by technodoll View Post
Great links, very informative! Got any more? Got anything about cats in particular? (although I know those apply to cats as well)
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by technodoll View Post
a raw diet is not high in protein. a cooked grainless kibble is dehydrated and thus artificially high in protein. in a natural state, no animal would eat a dehydrated diet. meats are ingested with the water content, thus diluting the overall protein.
Do you have any references about what percentage of protein a dog or cat's diet should ideally contain?
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:32 PM
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I thought the front teeth were for plants.
nope... they're for pulling and shredding the meat, fat and tendons off the bone... kinda like we use our front teeth for eating corn in the cob, i guess? LOL

hmmm for cats i'd have to look... you want skull photos, or more readings, or?...
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:36 PM
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Do you have any references about what percentage of protein a dog or cat's diet should ideally contain?
it all depends on who you ask, really... IMO the "ideal" comes from nature itself, ie what most of the wild carnivores in the world eat... most meat proteins are in the range of 15 to 20%, when consumed in a natural, raw state.

however this doesn't apply to kibble, which gets much of its protein from grains, hence the standard need for "about 24 to 26% protein" - some are less, some are more, but you see the trend.

hard to compare apples to oranges, really. the two diets are just too different
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:38 PM
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nope... they're for pulling and shredding the meat, fat and tendons off the bone... kinda like we use our front teeth for eating corn in the cob, i guess? LOL
Well, yeah, that's what I meant. The square dull ones are for veg, while the pointy small ones (like dogs have) are for shredding meat... Dogs teeth are way closer to cats' than ours anyway.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:43 PM
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hmmm for cats i'd have to look... you want skull photos, or more readings, or?...
Yes, yes, and... yes? I find biology and anatomy very interesting. It's not something I know much about, but I'm all about learning whatever I can.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 12:49 AM
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Yes this is really interesting and I don't know enough about diet. I tend to agree with whatever was most natural in the wild is probably best, assuming artifical selection hasn't "tampered" to much with the wolf tummy.:P
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Old June 5th, 2007, 06:39 PM
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Dogs are Omnivores the same as people and bears.


omnivore = noun
1. a person who eats all kinds of foods
2. an animal that feeds on both animal and vegetable substances

(Cats are carnivores)

You will find many who will say dogs are one or the other, I guess they have their reasons, I sure don't know what they are or why they think as they do.

My dog loves apples, carrots, sweet potatoes, peanut butter almost as much as meat, if not equally as much (not my cat). I have to keep my dog out of the garden, or she will eat the watermelons, knowing that's a no no. She has to wait for them to ripen like the rest of us....lol

Last edited by KitsapLady; June 5th, 2007 at 06:47 PM.
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Old June 5th, 2007, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarcello View Post
Great links, very informative! Got any more? Got anything about cats in particular? (although I know those apply to cats as well)
Here's a great link on feline nutrition, covers pretty much everything: MAX'S HOUSE

And here's a very technical PDF written by veterinarian Dr. Zoran: THE CARNIVORE CONNECTION TO NUTRITION IN CATS

For something a little more readable, try this one, also by a vet: FEEDING YOUR CAT: KNOW THE BASICS OF FELINE NUTRITION
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Old June 5th, 2007, 08:44 PM
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I have to keep my dog out of the garden, or she will eat the watermelons
Once Lobo got into the groceries, ripped the wrapper off of a watermelon, and had eaten a big chunk of it before we caught him.
Coyotes will raid gardens in the summer and eat melons especially. They seem to love fruit.

Even though dogs are classed in the order Carnivora, they are omnivorous, because they are able to utilize and obtain energy from both plant-based foods and animal based foods, and most will willingly eat at least some plant-based foods. (Panda bears are also classed Carnivora and they are basically strict herbivores!)

Sable is a testament to dogs being omnivorous, as she has survived (and thrived) on a strict vegetarian diet for 4 years.
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Old June 6th, 2007, 08:58 AM
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WRONG. they're not. First off, just becaue your dog eats a veggie or fruit doesnt make them a Omnivor.

Quote:
Cats are obligate Carnivores. unlike dogs cats cannot produce Taurine. So they MUST eat meat. Dogs however, do not have this requirement, however they ARE Carnivores.
And i guess you missed all the other posts here about why they are.

READ THIS
http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by KitsapLady View Post
Dogs are Omnivores the same as people and bears.


omnivore = noun
1. a person who eats all kinds of foods
2. an animal that feeds on both animal and vegetable substances

(Cats are carnivores)

You will find many who will say dogs are one or the other, I guess they have their reasons, I sure don't know what they are or why they think as they do.

My dog loves apples, carrots, sweet potatoes, peanut butter almost as much as meat, if not equally as much (not my cat). I have to keep my dog out of the garden, or she will eat the watermelons, knowing that's a no no. She has to wait for them to ripen like the rest of us....lol
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old June 6th, 2007, 11:02 AM
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That's right... even though cats are carnivores, mine still eat some kinds of fruits and veggies (any type of melon they LOVE, plus, button mushrooms and all types of winter squash, for example). They also love yogurt. One of them also really likes corn chips (this is an occasional treat, normally only the baked ones are given). The other one loves carrots but her teeth can't do much with them so all she can do is sniff it, she just goes nuts over them and will fetch carrot slices. They used to get avocado now and then until I read they are toxic to animals like dogs and cats...
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Old June 6th, 2007, 12:14 PM
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Simply put, if dogs did not have omnivorous tendencies (which I define as the capability and willingness to utilize plant based foods as energy and nutrient sources) then my dog would be dead.

The problem is the definitions are so vague. If you saw a panda, and didn't know anything about them, you would probably think they are meat eaters. But they eat bamboo.

Quote:
Carnivora does not include all meat-eating mammals (and not all members of the order Carnivora eat meat). The earliest members of this order evolved during the late Paleocene.
(from here)
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