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Old July 5th, 2004, 06:10 PM
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Peta Does Some Good Things

Topless protesters march against bullfighting
First of 8 bull runs is set for Wednesday
Monday, July 5, 2004 Posted: 5:39 PM EDT (2139 GMT)



Seminude members of animal protection group, PETA, hold a banner during a protest.


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MADRID, Spain (AP) -- Several hundred animal rights activists -- some in their underwear, others topless -- marched through the streets of Pamplona Monday to condemn bullfighting on the eve of the Spanish city's wildly popular running of the bulls.

About 200 supporters of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals came from 15 countries to march along the same cobblestone route that bulls and daredevil humans cover every July in a series of mad dashes from a holding pen to the bullring.

The protesters had planned to run totally nude but could not because they didn't get the necessary town hall permit, the Efe news agency reported. Police could not confirm the report.

Isabel Gonzalez, head of an anti-bullfighting organization in Belgium, said bullfighting is cruel.

"The animals suffer, and nobody has the right to mistreat them just to stage a fiesta," she said.

She said the running of the bulls also is inhumane because runners pull the bull's tails, kick them and "the animals run in a state of panic."

This year's festival begins Tuesday with a ceremony called the chupinazo, in which a small rocket is fired from a balcony overlooking the main square to signal the start of nine days of street parties in honor of the city's patron saint, San Fermin.

The first of eight bull runs is scheduled for Wednesday.
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Old July 5th, 2004, 06:30 PM
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Hey Luba, we get to have our own PETA arguement right here!!!
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  #3  
Old July 5th, 2004, 06:41 PM
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Wow, thats cruel.
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Old July 5th, 2004, 06:44 PM
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That is pretty cruel,dont understand how people can do what they do to animals....
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Old July 5th, 2004, 07:05 PM
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Giggles, yeah LavR....

Uh well PETA I wish I could make up a little jingle about them.

Many PETA members are meaninful people Heidi but the organization is a big scam IMHO.
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Old July 5th, 2004, 07:06 PM
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They never let the bulls win!

That kind of protest takes the passion of youth I'm afraid!
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Old July 5th, 2004, 07:08 PM
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I am a bit curious as to what they hoped to accomplish by running around naked. When I think of the bull runs in Spain or bull fighting in general, I don't usually connect it with half naked women.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 08:29 AM
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Well,it will give an interesting show for one
I'm not getting into any arguments here,but bull-fighting has long been a horrid event for me and in this day and age,it should not be happening
I've never seen one and don't wish to,but any"sport"or"culture-event"involving doomed,tortured animals is a shame on the participants,any kind of interruption is welcomed by me,be it Peta or anyone else.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 08:47 AM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2
Well,it will give an interesting show for one
I'm not getting into any arguments here,but bull-fighting has long been a horrid event for me and in this day and age,it should not be happening
I've never seen one and don't wish to,but any"sport"or"culture-event"involving doomed,tortured animals is a shame on the participants,any kind of interruption is welcomed by me,be it Peta or anyone else.
Very true Chico!!! I completely agree. The difficult thing to comprehend is the fact that this is apart of some cultures. I just don't understand how people can justify actions like this! Running of the bull, bull fighting (when the stab swords into a bull), there's TONS of cruel and unusual past times in many countries.
I for one have a VERY difficult time "accepting" hog hunting using pitbulls. Using the poor dogs to hunting down the hogs (and as LR pointed out sometimes they are placed in a fenced off location with idiots standing around watching the pit bull fight the hog!!) And this is still done today in the US!!!
I have brought this up before, and I'm sorry if people feel that I'm repeating... I just find all this disgusting and heartless.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 09:05 AM
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While I agree with you as far as all this bull stuff, I have to wonder what PETA thinks it is doing running around naked. What to they hope to accomplish, other then getting their pictures in the local papers and worldwide headlines.

While I think that the bull fights and the running of the bulls is barbaric, in Spain, they do not think that. And quite frankly, we need to clean up our own little corner of the world before we start telling people how to behave in theirs. No wonder other people think that Americans are arrogant. We have quite the little animal rights/welfare mess over here, yet we insist on mucking around in everyone elses.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 09:24 AM
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Another little "entertainment" around here is cockfighting. We have a lot of seasonal agricultural workers here from Mexico and I guess it's big there. It is really viscious. It's not legal here, but the authorities have a really tough time trying to stop it. You hear of raid quite often. Of course it's the $$$ (betting) that keeps it going.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 09:39 AM
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I couldn't resist adding this quote for you, LavR. I know you'll appreciate it.

"America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair."

A.J. (Arnold Joseph) Toynbee (1889–1975), British historian
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Old July 6th, 2004, 10:21 AM
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Well running around naked got them on cnn,and as for getting involved in other countries problems,we get involved with every other problem why not animal cruelty..
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Old July 6th, 2004, 10:54 AM
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I may not be keeping up with PETA's doings, but are they protesting and demanding action be taken against dogfighters? This felonious and barbarbic activity is thriving in North America, particularly in the US - right in Ms.Newkirk's backyard, so to speak!

PETA doesn't really need to go to Spain to fight cruelty, does it?

The horrific cruelty and abuse of dogfighting is widespread and much worse than bullfighting, but the only thing I've heard Ingrid Newkirk advocate is the elimination of pit bulls. Maybe she should suggest bulls be eliminated too? That would take care of the bullfighting problem.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 10:59 AM
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We also dont need to feed third world countries but we do,and no one complains about that,bull fighting is sooo cruel if they want to go there and protest naked so be it...........................
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Old July 6th, 2004, 11:04 AM
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Peta

You are so right why don't we clean up the messes in our own countries, before we start telling people what to do in there own countries. Mind you the U.S. is famous for sticking their noses in everyone elses business and not dealing with their own problems. Wake up PETA you have a country who have dog fights, cock fights, backyard breeders, puppymills and more. Stay home and clean up there first.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidiho
We also dont need to feed third world countries but we do,and no one complains about that,bull fighting is sooo cruel if they want to go there and protest naked so be it...........................
That is a COMPLETELY different issue!!! IMHO. I do believe that when you have war morgels that are with holding food and forcing starvation upon millions of people - Somalia - that other countries should step in... BUT when you have a country that is lead under a dictator and they are somewhat content with the situation, I don't feel that the leader of another coutry has the right to do in and DICTATE democracy. (Hitler excluded)

Animals rights should be handled FIRST within your own country before trying to change other cultures because you view it cruel and heartless.
It's up to North America to deal with our own issue before enforcing what we feel is "right" on other countries when we have the same crap (to different degrees) going on in our own backyards.

They probably think that us North Americans are rude and disgusting for holding our animals on such a high pedistal (sp). You don't see them coming here to teach us how to treat our animals.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 11:12 AM
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I dont see it that way,but that is what is so great about america,we can each have our own opinions....We also have thousands of starving people here,lets feed them first...........
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Old July 6th, 2004, 11:43 AM
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PETA has members world wide so the members that may have been involved in this could have actually been from Spain. Having said that, I'm sure the directtive came from the U.S senior management though

I can't stand bull fighting, cock fighting, dog fighting....any kind of fighting.

But as LR states they're so keen on targeting the things that get them noticed that they neglect the issues that probably got them started in the first place.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 11:47 AM
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Ok Luba that was a good point....
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Old July 6th, 2004, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidiho
I dont see it that way,but that is what is so great about america,we can each have our own opinions....We also have thousands of starving people here,lets feed them first...........
We here in Canada also have a freedom of speech, as you would like to call it, though that does not really relate to the issue...granted there are thousands of starving people in North America. I did not agree that we should fix their problems first. I said that when in extreme cases, as the one I mentioned, we should step in and help. AND the other point that I made was that we should clean up the mess in our own backyards BEFORE telling others to do so.

You're saying that you agree with letting other people suffer and die at the hands of others in 3rd world countries because it doesn't affect us?
These animals that are beaten and mamed daily - in Europe are in a country that is much better well off than many others, they are not considered 3rd world. They have rights and privlages just like ourselves, they choose to treat their animals that way because it is history, it's part of their livelihoods, before we go tell them that spearing a bull infront of thousands of onlookers. We should step back and see the people right here that are fighting pit bulls to the death, throwing battery acid on these dogs to make them tougher, leaving them outdoors on treadmills to increase their endurance (with weights around their necks) Beating them with baseball bats - to make them tougher. THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON HERE!!

Feeding people is another issue all on it's own and also a very intense topic.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 12:10 PM
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Alrighty then,point taken,i still see nothing wrong with trying to stop it,yes there are thousands of problems here with animal cruelty i know that.And before this gets into an ugly battle i am gonna drop it, i am not gonna go back and forth on this because we stated our beliefs and dont agree...
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Old July 6th, 2004, 12:17 PM
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We're not getting into an ugly battle Heidi!! I think we're pretty much on the same page.. I think We agree with the animal thing, I think... that we should solve our own problems first...

But the people thing, I'm confused. You don't think that we should feed/sponsor/help 3rd world countried at all.. that's what you're saying right? Because there are people in the US that are starving....

I'm just asking because I don't know if I completely understood your post, that's all...
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Old July 6th, 2004, 12:26 PM
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Well if you want the truth i think the first thing we should do for other countries besides feeding them,is to send them birth control...That is a hard question,yeah we should feed them,but also give them some means to help themselves...The animal thing i am all for anything that helps fight animal cruelty here or anywhere every little bit helps/..
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Old July 6th, 2004, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidiho
Well if you want the truth i think the first thing we should do for other countries besides feeding them,is to send them birth control...That is a hard question,yeah we should feed them,but also give them some means to help themselves...The animal thing i am all for anything that helps fight animal cruelty here or anywhere every little bit helps/..
Interesting point. I agree. But with the sponsoring of childern in 3rd world countries it doesn't just provide them with food, but clothing, an education, and a glimpse of the lifestyles that we take for granted. They too deserve a chance at life, just like the animals.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 12:48 PM
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You are right,they do deserve a chance,i just have more sympathy for animals.Maybe if i had kids i would feel something i dont right now,but i dont and my parents always instilled in us a love for animals that i feel strongly about today...I just feel they are humans and should learn to help themselves animals do nothing but love you and for people to do what they do to them is heinous and anyone that does something that draws attention to it has my vote...
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Old July 6th, 2004, 12:49 PM
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If I could quote Dean Martin

'Everybody loves somebody sometime!'
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Old July 6th, 2004, 01:11 PM
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Peta

Quote:
You are right,they do deserve a chance,i just have more sympathy for animals.Maybe if i had kids i would feel something i dont right now,but i dont and my parents always instilled in us a love for animals that i feel strongly about today...I just feel they are humans and should learn to help themselves animals do nothing but love you and for people to do what they do to them is heinous and anyone that does something that draws attention to it has my vote...
Well I have to agree with Heidiho on this one, I also have more sympathy for animals then kids they can do nothing about there situation. What do your pets ask of you just to provide the necessaties (sp)of life and love them and they will love you unconditionally. I do like some of the things that PETA does but I don't have to like the way they go about getting there point across. I still think that we need to deal with the problems in our own backyards. Look at the bright side are animal welfare is much better than south of the border. Not that are standards are acceptable either.
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Old July 6th, 2004, 01:20 PM
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I do,they are at are mercy,so loyal,people beat them and they still go to that person for love....For all they give us,we need to do what we can for them.I watched discovery channel one day,it was about ww 2 and it was a story on the dogs that were out there,they interviewed guys that were still alive and had an gsd out there with them when they were fighting,these guys were in tears,it is something to see an old man break down about his dog,and do you know the government left the dogs there because something like they were considered a weapon and could not bring them back to us.......ddoes anyone know what i am talking about>???? It was heartbreaking
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Old July 6th, 2004, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mastifflover
Well I have to agree with Heidiho on this one, I also have more sympathy for animals then kids they can do nothing about there situation. What do your pets ask of you just to provide the necessaties (sp)of life and love them and they will love you unconditionally.
Hold on, I NEVER said that I didn't agree with Heidi!!! I also have more sympathy for the animals...we're not understanding each other here!!!! The only thing that I didn't agree with was that we should not help people too!!! I think my post was too long or confusing or something, you guys got me ALL wrong!! BUT the people in 3rd worlds deserve help too!

Mastifflover, you're saying the children of 3rd world countries can do something about their situations? Essentially, you're saying that it's their own faults?!? Just asking.
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