Designer breed pics and info

[aslan]

Well it's wonderful to see we agree on a large portion of the issue, so lets just agree to disagree on the rest ok.

So now i think you should create a thread and post eleventy billion pictures of your penny so we can all oooooh and aaaaaw.

[allfurlove]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Wouldn't get a puppy from a pet store on a bet.. totally agree there.. and yes..there are aberrations in Hybrids.. but when done responisbly with good parentage this is far less likely..and to make a hybrid..it HAS to be a cross..it cannot be bred with another cross.. Purebred + Purebred = Hybrid... Hybrid + Hybrid = mutt.. no problem there at all!

This confuses me a little Do you mean that the "reputable hybrid breeders" only breed 2 different purebreds together, and that none of the puppies from such a litter are bred and must be spayed/neutered?

[marko]

I'm glad this thread is simmering down.

Draughty, maybe our forum is for you and maybe it isn't. Either way rudeness won't be tolerated. When you enter a new crowd, forum or group of friends, it's normal to tread with lighter steps.
Please feel free to hang around but tone it down (as you have in your last post ). If you wish to respond to this, do so by PM or email only, never in an open forum. Thanks in advance.

Back to the thread now....

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Excuse me..my name is Kent and my pet was Penny ..an excellent example of Hybrid's as a Cockapoo..
Yes I am a draftsman by trade.. now..at age 49.. but in an early phase of my life.. I was a farmer.. bad back doesn't lend well to that...
NOW who do you think is trolling..I am simply trying to point out facts..
I am NOT defending puppymills or the mistreatment of any animal.. nor do I even attempt to defend anyone charging over $1000 and up to $2500 dollars for a hybrid cross.. a good breeder can however cross breed sucessfully with excellent results and produce hybrid dogs of high quality that ARE worth paying for.. with the best interests of both the progeny and the parents..
PLEASE don't misunderstand me.. I just do not understand the bias against ALL hybrid dogs.. Ban me if you will..I am new to this forum and am not trying to stir up trouble..I am only trying to help you see how you are going to be viewed..as bashers of those that do not agree with your specific viewpoint.. that your viewpoint is based in facts that are too horrific to even be understood in some cases..well that is regrettable... it is however not necessarily a 'true' case scenario as there ARE good hybrid breeders just as there ARE good Purebred breeders..and unfortunately vice-versa..
To categorize ALL crossbreeding hybrid breeders as 'bad' is a disservice to yourselves and to all dog breeders in the end as anyone with some common sense knows that it is not possible for ALL of any category of person to be 'bad' just as it is not possible for ALL of any category to be bad.
Nuff said for now...
I am not against you.. I am for your true cause..the ethical treatment of and breeding of fine pets.. be they pure bred..hybrid ..or mutt!
Me..I am a purebred.. 100% Norwegian stock and proud of it.. my late pet was Hybrid.. Cockapoo..and I could not recommend her stock more highly!

Trent - the problem that we, as a group, have is that careful breeders of "hybrids" are even more rare then ethical breeders of purebreds - and we are a very persnickety bunch when it comes to breeding ethics. The honest truth is, most people who breed designer breeds see that they can get a male and female dog, breed them and make between $1,000 and $2,000 for each puppy. They don't bother looking into any of the genetic issues that the breeds are prone to that they pass on to the puppies or the cost of vetting or pregnancy emergencies or anything else.

It isn't our intent to bash or belittle but to educate. You can call a hybrid anything you like but it is still a mutt. This isn't meant as a slam or anything else, it is a plain and simple fact. The last time I looked, an estimated 2.5 million dogs were killed in North America (the U.S. and Canada) simply because they had no home. A majority of them were "hybrids" or mutts.

This is what we object to. And, unfortuneately, until we can educate people enough to understand that a hybrid and a mutt are the same thing - this problem will not go away, only increase.

[BenMax]

I cannot help but think of all the 'designer breeds', mixes, mutts or hybrids (whatever you want to call it) are at the mercy of pounds, shelters and the 'lucky ones' in rescue.

There are presently claudestine breeding facilities, millers and so called breeders pumping out hundreds and thousands of these poor pups and killing the parents slowly and horribly during the process in order to fill a so called demand. That 'demand' is now being exterminated by gassing, shooting, lethal injection, electrocution etc as I type this.

These so called breeders are NOT reputable. They are given breeding permits by the city and are not governed. There is no way to regulate these breeders nor are there standards to ensure that the 'hybrid' that they are producting are sound medically nor temperment wise. TRUE breeders have years of exhausting genetic testing and follow up to ensure that their line is of high quality which meets the breed standards. This is time consuming and financially exhausting to ensure that a true purebred is of the utmost quality. Fancy pretend 'breeds' have only a few years of developing a chickapoo (and how difficult is that) and my question how can these breeders ensure good genetics for these designer dogs. They cannot.

I really do not understand why someone would buy a mixed breed from a so called breeder in the first place. There are plenty of these dogs within the system BEGGING to live.

I say stop this nonsense breeding and let's concentrate on saving the over flowing pet populations just waiting for a second chance.

When is enough enough already?

[Love4himies]

Well said, BenMax.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

Well said, BenMax.

I really wanted to stay away from this thread but I cannot forget about Peaches and all the other 'designer breeds' I have had in my home. Remember the 10 week old Morkie? The cockapoos, the labradoodles, puggles and the countless others that have passed my hands and so many others here at pets??

I think that this whole darn breeding should STOP. It's pointless to spend 600-800$ for a mutt! Go to a shelter, go to petfinder, go to the city pound, go to rescues - they are there.....waiting....and while they are waiting that freezer door is open!:sad:

To be blunt - this really totally disgusts me to no end.

[Love4himies]

I know, I know there are far too many cats and dogs in the world, both purebred and mixed breeds. All they want is a loving home :sad:. I wish people would stop breeding for a while.

[Bailey_]

SO true L4H and BM.

It really comes down to the fact that regardless of what 'kind of dog' you want - society has done so much damage by overpopulating the species because of their own wanted gain.

It's wrong, and it needs to stop.

If that means by someones standards I'm not "openminded"...then THANK DAWG for that.

[Draughty]

..by no means did I mean to step in with a heavy foot..I will say however that I have checked several threads both open and closed about crossbreeds or hybrids..and every time it appears the same people are quite heavy handed in their outright condemnation of 'designer dogs' and their criticisms are often misleading if not outright wrong.

To say that a reputably bred cross breed is ONLY going to have the worst traits of it's parents is sheer ...ok..I can't say anything nice about that so I won't say anymore..

This bashing seems to not only be tolerated..but supported at each and every turn.. the same people are saying the same things.. how is that treating newcomers to a welcome?

NOW if you really want to educate and inform..treat those that come in to ask honest questions from their own curiosity PLEASE don't let them get bashed by the same people saying the same really unkind things. All you are doing is driving away the people that won't fight you on whether or not 'designer dogs' are evil incarnate..

Again..my only intention here is to help YOU stop some of your own badmouthing of people who are doing a desired service for people that want it.

Should the crossbreeds be spayed and neutered..honestly I do believe they should be.. most of those that are buying a hybrid or crossbreed dog do not want to have to deal with puppies nor do they have any idea how to deal with them.. if I had my way only licensed government inspected facilities would be allowed to have dogs or cats that are NOT neutered..is that possible? No.. but it would be my preference..and that goes for all breeds..

Honestly it is hard for me to not think of 'Purebred Teacup Poodles' as designer dogs..much to many peoples horror I am sure.. I am not however going to tell you that you are wrong to want one IF that is the pet that fits you..so why would you keep allowing purebred anti-hybrid enthusiasts to keep bashing the desires of someone who simply really enjoys a dog of specifically mixed breed.. having known several Cockapoos as well as Poodles and Cocker Spaniels I can honestly say that all the Cockapoos were in better health and of better temperament than any of the purebreds.. again..I am talking nearly 50 of loving dogs and knowing dogs.. please..just refrain from bashing someone and give them the information with as much humility and courtesy as you would hope to be given..I am sorry to say this but so far this has just not been the case so far as I have seen here.

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by BenMax

I cannot help but think of all the 'designer breeds', mixes, mutts or hybrids (whatever you want to call it) are at the mercy of pounds, shelters and the 'lucky ones' in rescue.

There are presently claudestine breeding facilities, millers and so called breeders pumping out hundreds and thousands of these poor pups and killing the parents slowly and horribly during the process in order to fill a so called demand. That 'demand' is now being exterminated by gassing, shooting, lethal injection, electrocution etc as I type this.

These so called breeders are NOT reputable. They are given breeding permits by the city and are not governed. There is no way to regulate these breeders nor are there standards to ensure that the 'hybrid' that they are producting are sound medically nor temperment wise. TRUE breeders have years of exhausting genetic testing and follow up to ensure that their line is of high quality which meets the breed standards. This is time consuming and financially exhausting to ensure that a true purebred is of the utmost quality. Fancy pretend 'breeds' have only a few years of developing a chickapoo (and how difficult is that) and my question how can these breeders ensure good genetics for these designer dogs. They cannot.

I really do not understand why someone would buy a mixed breed from a so called breeder in the first place. There are plenty of these dogs within the system BEGGING to live.

I say stop this nonsense breeding and let's concentrate on saving the over flowing pet populations just waiting for a second chance.

When is enough enough already?

Reputable AND disreputable breeders are well documented in ALL breeds and hybrids.. THAT is a fact..and yes I agree.. the overbreeding must stop..hard to stop greed however..and please..can you honestly say you haven't seen purebreds coming in to rescue shelters and pulled out of puppy mills and purebreds used to the same heartless ends? I doubt it.. as I said before..the wonderful Olde English Sheepdog was nearly ruined by overbreeding and inbreeding..at least hybrids are not inbred.. hybrids that are bred to each other are NOT hybrids.. to get a pure cross you must have two differing purebred breeds not two hybrids..anyone passing off the progeny of two hybrid dogs as another hybrid is ignorant, unscrupulous or both!

[hazelrunpack]

If hybrids bred to hybrids are not hybrids, what are they? If there is no breed type established, they are not breeds...and it takes many generations to set the breed type. Until you've undergone the genetic bottleneck and established a 'breed type'. and the generations 'breed true' to that 'type', there is no 'breed'. So hybrids bred to hybrids, at least for the first many generations, are not pure-breds...which makes them hybrids.

I'm not sure that I'm following your argument...

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by Draughty

if I had my way only licensed government inspected facilities would be allowed to have dogs or cats that are NOT neutered..is that possible?

In the U.S. - licensed, government inspected facilities are known as commercial breeders and these are the only breeders allowed to sell to pet shops. Inspectors are few and far between and most "breeders" have somewhere between 100 and 300 dogs that they breed. Vet visits are a rarity and inspection violations are generally a warning, followed by a fine if there is any follow-up at all. These facilities are usually cages and cages and cages full of dogs stacked on top of each other.

I am sorry if you think that we are a bit more passionate that you would like. Most of the members here are involved in rescue, and spent countless hours, tears and hard earned dollars cleaning up the messes that licensed, government inspected facilities create.

[aslan]

oh please you can't be serious. First off anyone who joins this forum is supposed to read the rules etc and it states clearly that this is a mainly pro spay/;neuter forum. A large majority of the members here are in rescue in one form or another cleaning up the mess of people who think its ok to not fix their animals, breed designer mutts when 100% of the shelters in North America are bursting at the seems with animals. 1000 of animals are euthanized dailey. One of our members days exists of going to work, off to the rescues, then home to her umpteen foster animals. I am in awe that you believe it is ok to breed mutts when so many die in the shelters.

So since we are so uneducated tho we have cleaned up this mess for a long time, please do tell how all of us are wrong. Go to a local shelter and request to be present while they put down several of your wonderful Hybrids then come back and tell us how evil we are.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Reputable AND disreputable breeders are well documented in ALL breeds and hybrids.. THAT is a fact..and yes I agree.. the overbreeding must stop..hard to stop greed however..and please..can you honestly say you haven't seen purebreds coming in to rescue shelters and pulled out of puppy mills and purebreds used to the same heartless ends? I doubt it.. as I said before..the wonderful Olde English Sheepdog was nearly ruined by overbreeding and inbreeding..at least hybrids are not inbred.. hybrids that are bred to each other are NOT hybrids.. to get a pure cross you must have two differing purebred breeds not two hybrids..anyone passing off the progeny of two hybrid dogs as another hybrid is ignorant, unscrupulous or both!

and this is our point exactly, these are NOT reputable breeder. They are not looking out for the welfare of the breed or these issues wouldn't be happening. one breed bred to another breed is a mutt period no matter what fancy name you want to give it..your cockapoo was a mutt, mongrel,hybrid heinz57 or what ever name you want to give it. As is my bailey. Funny we had the same mix and i will guarantee that they had totally different personalities and tempermants.

[Bailey_]

Is it just me, or is none of this making any sense. Draughty you sound like you're going in circles, and I for one am getting confused.

Reputable AND disreputable breeders are well documented in ALL breeds and hybrids.. THAT is a fact..and yes I agree.. the overbreeding must stop..hard to stop greed however..and please..can you honestly say you haven't seen purebreds coming in to rescue shelters and pulled out of puppy mills and purebreds used to the same heartless ends?

No one here is arguing a case for purebred breeders either. Period. You're pleading a case that is redundant, IMO.

The majority of the users are HUGE into rescuing, and adopting and fostering. This is the site you have come too, and these are the people you are trying to plead your case against. I for one don't care HOW you view these designer pooch breeders, because to me - it's all ridiculous. There are too many purebred and mixed puppies/dogs in shelters and rescues across the WORLD - right now - that need homes, while breeders, puppymills, petstores and the like are filling those spots and this needs to stop.

Again..my only intention here is to help YOU stop some of your own badmouthing of people who are doing a desired service for people that want it.

Just because it's wanted...just because there is a huge "desire" for it...does it mean it's right? Does it mean that I should stop telling people to RESCUE instead of buying these little 'cute' mix or purebred puppies that people see on advertised in papers or on the internet? Does it mean that my heart doesn't break when I think of our little Suki - a miniature poodle we rescued from a puppymill case - that was literally put down five days later because her HEAD WAS NOT ATTACHED TO HER BODY due to missing vertebrae??

No.

It means I will always stand up, and say to anyone and everyone that they need to go to their local rescue and adopt a dog or puppy in need. It means that I will always feel the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, when someone calls this service 'reputable'. It means I will always stand up badmouth these kind of breeders.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Again..my only intention here is to help YOU stop some of your own badmouthing of people who are doing a desired service for people that want it.

Now by this logic, because their is a desire for something then it should be acceptable right. So drugs should be legal, dog fights should be legal, pedophilia, child porn, etc, etc. Just because its desired doesn't mean it's right.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by aslan

Just because its desired doesn't mean it's right.

Very well said aslan

[Gail P]

This thread is starting to make my head spin, the same things just keep being reiterated on both sides of the issue. Perhaps it's time to clarify something for Draughty. This forum is not pro-purebred breeding/anti-crossbred breeding. It is a pro spay/neuter and pro-rescue forum, which discourages any and all breeding, purebred or otherwise. To say that producers of crossbred puppies are being maligned means that you have not read through much of this forum thoroughly. Every person who comes on here and represents themselves as a breeder or is talking about wanting to breed, asking breeding questions, asking if their pet might be pregnant etc. are all treated equally, regardless of breed or crossbreed. Anyone who starts posts about their litter (or upcoming litter) of puppies or kittens and/or posting pictures of them is asked some very pointed questions. It doesn't matter what kind of dog they have, the responses are the same.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by aslan

Now by this logic, because their is a desire for something then it should be acceptable right. So drugs should be legal, dog fights should be legal, pedophilia, child porn, etc, etc. Just because its desired doesn't mean it's right.

Very well said.

[lUvMyLaB<3]

Draugty, can you answer this question for me? What is the difference between your cockapoo and the thousand cockapoos in shelters? Is it just the intent behind the breeding? That i dont understand as the outcome in any pup of this type of breeding cannot be determined.

When there are enough of there dogs, to the point many are killed, why breed more? We all love mutts, hybrids, whatever here, just dont have any respect for the people that breed them. The people here are the people that give of all their time, effort, love, to try and help clean up this mess, how can we agree with someone who encourages to fuel the problem?

[14+kitties]

THIS is what we are against….. pure and simple.

http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2009/09/puppy-mills.html

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/39204377.html

http://www.meafordexpress.com/meafor...article/123851

http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/asc...tag/puppymill/

http://www.komonews.com/news/37796254.html

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...2-793568356e40


Are these “made up stories” to elicit our bleeding hearts? Are they all figments of our imaginations? Somewhere there is an awful lot of breeding going on by unscrupulous breeders who are in it for what they can get. If you got your dog from a "breeder" who wasn't in it for the money did you get her for nothing? That breeder would be miraculous. It just does not happen.
As has been said before - we are not purebreed snobs. Far from it.

[TwinTails]

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by allfurlove

This confuses me a little Do you mean that the "reputable hybrid breeders" only breed 2 different purebreds together, and that none of the puppies from such a litter are bred and must be spayed/neutered?

...YES.. clear enough I hope.. that would be my wish anyway..

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by Gail P

This thread is starting to make my head spin, the same things just keep being reiterated on both sides of the issue. Perhaps it's time to clarify something for Draughty. This forum is not pro-purebred breeding/anti-crossbred breeding. It is a pro spay/neuter and pro-rescue forum, which discourages any and all breeding, purebred or otherwise. <SNIP>.

OK..that clarifies a lot..now tell me...where does it say that? All I saw was Pets.ca and forum for Breed Charateristics and Traits > Designer Breeds pics and info..

Now where was I supposed to see that this was a forum only for " pro spay/neuter and pro-rescue forum, which discourages any and all breeding, purebred or otherwise."????? Hmmm.. now I am beginning to wonder who is trolling? Are you waiting in the wings to pounce?

I am not anti breeding..I am anti over breeding..and seriously if you think there are ONLY designer breeds/crossbreeds in rescues.. I know much better.. I am not ignorant nor can I be swayed to believe that all dogs that are bred never find a good home or are never loved.. seriously folks.. if you really are " pro spay/neuter and pro-rescue forum, which discourages any and all breeding, purebred or otherwise." Will there be any dogs for pets for anyone.. that literally means that would be no dogs born at all..
Is that your goal..if so maybe change the sites name to www.antipets.ca?

One thing to get your message out there folks..another to kill every post-er that asks a question about breeding!

[Draughty]

This is how you treat what is intended as constructive criticism of the forum as a whole in order to help you appear more believable in your message?
Honestly folks..this house needs to get itself in order before it attempts to correct other issues...

Originally Posted by TwinTails

[TwinTails]

The OP asked about a particular mixed breed, and we gave answers regarding that. You are the one who decided that we were against mixed breed dogs

We are not against ethical breeders, we're just sick of having thousands of excess animals needing homes, and people still over breeding them to make a buck.

You just want to stir up trouble, don't you? Why don't you crawl back under the rock you came from?

ETA: LOL! I knew it wouldn't be long until you showed up again Wow, you must love us, seriously! You get banned once, and come crawling back again...teehehehe! Ah, well, at least we can all just sit back and enjoy watching you burry yourself again

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by lUvMyLaB<3

Draugty, can you answer this question for me? What is the difference between your cockapoo and the thousand cockapoos in shelters?

My Cockapoo was loved and cared for and had a home..how hard is that to understand?

Originally Posted by lUvMyLaB<3

Is it just the intent behind the breeding? That i dont understand as the outcome in any pup of this type of breeding cannot be determined.

It is the end home of the pup isn't it?

Originally Posted by lUvMyLaB<3

When there are enough of there dogs, to the point many are killed, why breed more? We all love mutts, hybrids, whatever here, just dont have any respect for the people that breed them.

I think you mean overbreed..but if you don't..that is silly.. without dogs breeding...there would be no dogs.. personally I am against some people breeding as far as that goes..but I doubt that is going to happen either..

Originally Posted by lUvMyLaB<3

The people here are the people that give of all their time, effort, love, to try and help clean up this mess, how can we agree with someone who encourages to fuel the problem?

I am not trying to encourage the problem...just responsibility on both sides of the issue.. to totally oppose breeding of pets is silly..if that IS your goal..see ya later..if it really is to encourage responsibility in breeding and owning pets..and to give out information about owning breeding choosing and caring for pets.. then I might just stick around.. the lack of tolerance I am seeing so far really turns me off...and insures that this place will never grow beyond those that totally oppose breeding of pets in any way..

[Bailey_]

I am not anti breeding..I am anti over breeding..and seriously if you think there are ONLY designer breeds/crossbreeds in rescues.. I know much better..

Hmm.

I'm seeing many of the members repeat themselves when they say that we are a pro/rescue group. I don't see anyone telling anybody else that ONLY designer/mix dogs are in rescues, or ONLY designer/mix breeders are looked down upon except you.

The key here is that irresponsible breeders/puppy mills and the like are causing a lot of the problems that many of the members here are dedicating their lives to try and fix or at least help.

if you really are " pro spay/neuter and pro-rescue forum, which discourages any and all breeding, purebred or otherwise." Will there be any dogs for pets for anyone.. that literally means that would be no dogs born at all..

This comment leads me to believe you've never been in the rescue business, or held a dog while it was euthanized in a shelter, simply because of being there too long.

Until the overpopulation of domestic animals is under control, I for one would be SO THANKFUL to see the breeding stop.

A quote from the website DogsOnly :

In the United States alone, more than 50,000 puppies and kittens are born each day. For every pet with a place he can happily call home, there are 4 companion animals who are homeless, neglected, or abused. Millions of these animals enter America's animal shelters and 30 to 60 percent of them have to be destroyed each year because no one wants them - that is 4 to 6 million animals!

Also, please read this website if you still feel that discouraging breeding is 'silly'. http://www.anticruelty.org/site/epage/36967_576.htm

I am not trying to encourage the problem...just responsibility on both sides of the issue.. to totally oppose breeding of pets is silly..if that IS your goal..see ya later..if it really is to encourage responsibility in breeding and owning pets..and to give out information about owning breeding choosing and caring for pets.. then I might just stick around.. the lack of tolerance I am seeing so far really turns me off...and insures that this place will never grow beyond those that totally oppose breeding of pets in any way..

To me - because of all those dogs that are sitting in shelters right now - the stand that many here take, IS the responsible one. And personally...I'm fairly confused as to why that offends you so much.

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by aslan

Now by this logic, because their is a desire for something then it should be acceptable right. So drugs should be legal, dog fights should be legal, pedophilia, child porn, etc, etc. Just because its desired doesn't mean it's right.

Hyberbole does not impress an intelligent person.. silly to compare legal activity to illegal activity..please.. let's keep this above that level?