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  #1  
Old January 12th, 2008, 01:29 PM
ilovechloe ilovechloe is offline
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My border collie isn't doing well..please help

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum but a long time pet-lover. I have a beautiful, 10 year old Border Collie named Chloe.

Up until a few months ago, Chloe had perfect health. People mistook her for a 3 year old and couldn't believe she was a "senior" dog.

However, starting in about October Chloe got on and off diarrhea. Her albumin protein level was also extremely low. We got an ultrasound done and the vet surmised that she probably had Irritable Bowel Disease. After many trials with different types of food, we found the w/d works best for her. We are unsure as to whether she actually has IBD or if this was a preliminary diagnosis, because just about a month later she was diagnoses with diabetes.

Finally, we stabilized her GI tract and she was starting to gain weight again. However, just a few days ago, she started to to act really strangely. She has had a few negative readings of her blood glucose (based on the urine test strips). The other day, I clapped and instead of coming toward me like she normally does she became VERY startled and almost fell backwards. She is having limb problems where she will lift her limbs and hold them taught for a while and then put them down. She does this with all of her legs. Sometimes it happens and doesn't happen for another few hours, sometimes she does it in the next 15 minutes.

We took her to the vet yesterday and he said she may have some nerve problems due to a blood clot or something of that nature. He gave us antinflamitory drugs to give her, but she hasn't been eating well so we haven't given her one yet. She is really sleepy and just not herself.

I'm sorry this post is so long. I love my dog more than anything and want to help her. We keep getting on problem after the other and I can't even understand if they're connected or just random. We will do anything we can to help her.

Please, if anyone has any advice or similar situations post. We are at our wits end.
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  #2  
Old January 12th, 2008, 06:05 PM
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I'm sorry, I have no suggestions for you, but I hope your dog gets well soon.

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Old January 12th, 2008, 06:13 PM
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Those kinda sound like complications of diabetes. I don't know much about how it effects dogs but those sound like human symptoms.

Nerve damage is really common with diabetes. When blood sugars are high nerves are effected and sleepiness is usual. High blood sugars also make you feel REALLY icky! Can they do a HbA1C test on dogs? It's a blood test that indicated blood sugar average over the last three months. Can you do home blood sugar testing? - blood testing is way more accurate than urine. This might help you to figure out whether the symptoms are blood sugar related. Everytime she acts odd you wcould do a blood sugar.

I hope everything works out great. for you both.
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Magnolia (aka Nolie) - 6 yrs old, adopted May 3, 2009 - mixed breed monster mutt
R.I.P. Chloe - my first Golden girl - we said goodbye but you will always be here (1994-2007 adopted April 2000)
R.I.P. Molly - my Golden girl, who's causing havoc over the bridge now - (1999-2009 adopted May 2007)
and love for my "lost ones" - Misery, Clover & the girls (chickens)

Last edited by otter; January 12th, 2008 at 06:14 PM. Reason: addition
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Old January 12th, 2008, 06:30 PM
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erykah1310 erykah1310 is offline
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I agree with Otter, but also
was she given anything to help with the diarreah while experiencing the issues? Especially anything containing Loperamide which is in most anti-diarreahal medications?
Its sort of a long shot here, but Collies, BC's, Aussies and a few other breeds have "issues" with it.

Heres some info, again sort of a long shot as it does seem more diabetes related to me too but still could be worth looking into.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...C=31&A=506&S=0
Quote:
Collies with ivermectin sensitivity have been found to have a mutant gene for what is called the "P-glycoprotein." The P-glycoprotein has been studied largely because overexpression of this protein (i.e., having more of it than normal) results poor function of chemotherapy drugs in the treatment of cancer. The P-glycoprotein appears to be involved in keeping drugs out of certain body tissues. Having excess P-glycoprotein keeps chemotherapy drugs from reaching the tumor; having a mutant/non-functional protein fails to keep medications like ivermectin out of the central nervous system. In other words, Collies (and their cousins: Old English Sheepdogs, Shetland Sheepdogs, Australian Shepherds, etc.) have less P-glycoprotein than normal. Having less P-glycoprotein means certain drugs gain access to protected body tissues more readily. This phenomenon is responsible not only for ivermectin toxicity in sensitive breeds but also loperamide toxicity. Approximately 35% of Collies appear affected by this condition. It is probably best to avoid loperamide in Collies and their relatives.
Also, there is ivermectin (in heartworm control products) that Collies are known to "react" to.

http://www.awca.net/drug.htm
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Old January 12th, 2008, 06:35 PM
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after a little more reading neurotoxicity doesnt seem to be as prevalent in Border Collies as other herding breeds.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this, :sad: I will be keeping you and Chloe in my thoughts and hoping for the bes.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 07:31 PM
ilovechloe ilovechloe is offline
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Thank you so much everyone for your kind words and responses. We are extremely worried about Chloe and we love her to death.

The strangest thing is this leg lifting business though. It's truly as if she can't control her limbs. Her leg will go in the air and she tries to lick it and seems perturbed that it is happening... This indicates to me that it isn't a result of a pain in her leg but that it is something involuntary. It's almost as if it's a paralysis.

Obviously to find out what's going on we need to do a number of tests. The vet recommended and MRI but we really can't afford that. We've already spent over $6,000 in vet bills when we don't have the money to do so. I want to help her in any way I possibly can but I don't know what to do.

We want to by a blood glucose tester for dogs because the urine is really impractical and not accurate.

I'm only 17, by the way, and Chloe has been a part of my life almost as long as I remember. I just can't bear to see her like this.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovechloe View Post
However, just a few days ago, she started to to act really strangely. She has had a few negative readings of her blood glucose (based on the urine test strips). The other day, I clapped and instead of coming toward me like she normally does she became VERY startled and almost fell backwards. She is having limb problems where she will lift her limbs and hold them taught for a while and then put them down. She does this with all of her legs. Sometimes it happens and doesn't happen for another few hours, sometimes she does it in the next 15 minutes.

We took her to the vet yesterday and he said she may have some nerve problems due to a blood clot or something of that nature. He gave us antinflamitory drugs to give her, but she hasn't been eating well so we haven't given her one yet. She is really sleepy and just not herself.
What type of insulin is she getting and how much? Are you still giving her the same dose with her decreased appetite? I second what otter said about testing her blood glucose at home, I think it's crucial at this point. Her insulin needs may have changed and you need to know if the dose she's getting is still safe. Also, the sleepiness worries me greatly because that can be a sign of hypoglycemia. Do you have something like corn or pancake syrup on hand and do you know how to recognize a hypoglycemic episode?

Here are some links for you to check out:
http://www.caninediabetes.org/
http://www.petdiabetes.org/home_bg_testing.htm This one has tips on how to home test your dog's bg.
http://p092.ezboard.com/Canine-Diabe...caninediabetes
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Old January 12th, 2008, 08:30 PM
ilovechloe ilovechloe is offline
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Right now she is on 4 units of Vetsulin in the morning and 4 units at night.

I, too, was concerned about a hypoglycemic episode because this morning she had a negative reading and did not have much appetite. This morning we gave her no insulin. Based on her behavior, I gave her a dog treat covered in Karo-syrup. However, tonight we just tested her urine and her sugar was EXTREMELY high. As a result, we continued with the insulin and she ate a bit more (still not much though) than what she ate tonight.

I would have to assume this leg thing is associated with the diabetes. But since her blood glucose didn't appear to be low, I just don't know HOW it is associated.

Furthermore, right now she isn't really lethargic but has trouble standing up because it seems every time she's up for a while she starts the leg thing.

Tomorrow we're going to the UPenn Veterinary Hospital to get another opinion. Thanks for your concern, I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes.
Here's a picture of Chloe:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...72322852jStrdc
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Old January 12th, 2008, 08:44 PM
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Diabetes can be kinda complicated. Low blood sugars (hypoglycemia) come on very fast and if left untreated will lead to convulsions - the body has only very limited resources to recover from low blood sugar so treatment with some kind of sugar is always needed. High blood sugars can go on for a LONG time, it just gets progressively worse. High blood sugar can go down on its own (though this depends on the reason and condition of their body).

Sometimes when blood sugar is low you end up with VERY high blood sugars just after - a "rebound" kinda reaction or due to over treatment of the low.

I hope you find some answers a UPenn.
Chloe is a real cutie
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R.I.P. Chloe - my first Golden girl - we said goodbye but you will always be here (1994-2007 adopted April 2000)
R.I.P. Molly - my Golden girl, who's causing havoc over the bridge now - (1999-2009 adopted May 2007)
and love for my "lost ones" - Misery, Clover & the girls (chickens)
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Old January 12th, 2008, 09:18 PM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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I have no experience with diabetes, but I did want to welcome you to the board. I wish it were under less stressful circumstances for you! And I do hope that Chloe gets back on track again quickly!
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Old January 13th, 2008, 01:22 AM
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Chloe is beautiful.

It does sound like canine diabetes neuropathy. Good luck at UPenn and I hope Chloe is on the road to recovery soon.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 01:43 PM
ilovechloe ilovechloe is offline
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Hey everyone,

We just got the results from Chloe's bloodwork back and the news is not very promising.

It looks as if her albumin level is still low (at 1.2--should be around 2.4) and that her general protein level is also much lower (i think 2. something, should be 5. something). Now they are saying she may be throwing clots in her blood since her protein levels are so abnormal. This apparently is a life threatening situation. They want to do another ultrasound and exploratory surgery to find the cause (they believe it to be Irritable Bowl Disease) but, unfortunately, we really don't have the money to do this. We're going to put her on the IBD medication anyway, and hope that it helps. We are going to be communicating closely with the vet these next couple days and are going to try to do all we can to help her and get her back on track!

Thanks for all your help and support. It really means a lot.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 08:19 PM
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I'm so sorry to hear about Chloe. I don't have any experience with IBD but there are member her that do and should be able to offer some help. Good luck.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 08:39 PM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovechloe View Post
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum but a long time pet-lover. I have a beautiful, 10 year old Border Collie named Chloe.

Up until a few months ago, Chloe had perfect health. People mistook her for a 3 year old and couldn't believe she was a "senior" dog.

However, starting in about October Chloe got on and off diarrhea. Her albumin protein level was also extremely low. We got an ultrasound done and the vet surmised that she probably had Irritable Bowel Disease. After many trials with different types of food, we found the w/d works best for her. We are unsure as to whether she actually has IBD or if this was a preliminary diagnosis, because just about a month later she was diagnoses with diabetes.

Finally, we stabilized her GI tract and she was starting to gain weight again. However, just a few days ago, she started to to act really strangely. She has had a few negative readings of her blood glucose (based on the urine test strips). The other day, I clapped and instead of coming toward me like she normally does she became VERY startled and almost fell backwards. She is having limb problems where she will lift her limbs and hold them taught for a while and then put them down. She does this with all of her legs. Sometimes it happens and doesn't happen for another few hours, sometimes she does it in the next 15 minutes.

We took her to the vet yesterday and he said she may have some nerve problems due to a blood clot or something of that nature. He gave us antinflamitory drugs to give her, but she hasn't been eating well so we haven't given her one yet. She is really sleepy and just not herself.

I'm sorry this post is so long. I love my dog more than anything and want to help her. We keep getting on problem after the other and I can't even understand if they're connected or just random. We will do anything we can to help her.

Please, if anyone has any advice or similar situations post. We are at our wits end.
I am so sorry I wish I had some good news that I could share with you, but please try to get Chole's meds in her, otherwise you won't know if they will help or not and the sooner you know, the better, in case the vet will have to try something else.I know if she's not eating it's hard to et te pills in, but when I have to give them to my dog, I will hide it in cheese or meat...something she really likes. I really wish the best for you and Chole
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Old January 15th, 2008, 10:49 AM
bcsrule bcsrule is offline
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How is Chloe now? I'm new here but just read about her. I have 3 bc's and Chloe looks alot like one of mine, Tasha. I hope she is doing better. I have no experiance with the issues you are having with her, just sending your way.
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Old January 15th, 2008, 04:28 PM
ilovechloe ilovechloe is offline
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Well, the good news is that the leg thing has stopped. Perhaps, if it was a clot, the situation resolved itself.

We're still worrying about the protein levels though. She got her first dose of the new medication this morning (it's called Azathioprine..heavy duty stuff) and all we can now is wait.

Unfortunately, we think the anti-inflammatory medication gave her diarrhea, which is definitely NOT good since her protein levels are so low to begin with. The diarrhea, in turn, has caused her to lose some of her appetite. We stopped the anti-inflammatory drugs and hopefully the diarrhea will go away and she will be on the road to recovery.

Thanks again for all those comments. I feel grateful to have joined this community.
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Old January 15th, 2008, 05:48 PM
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Try slippery elm, it may do her some good and will do no harm. You can buy it a herbalists or the health food store. I use the pure powder, no additives, and make it into a gruel with a little boiling water, then add more cold water until it is tepid. If you let it sit, it thickens a bit. Give it to your dog while it is still liquid enough for him to swallow efficiently. Some people put the powder in their food. Just google 'dog slippery elm' and all the information is there.

'Slippery Elm Bark (Ulmus Fulva) is a soothing nutritive demulcent suitable for sensitive or inflamed mucous membrane linings in the digestive system. Slippery Elm may be used for treating diarrhea or colon disorders.

Slippery elm inner bark is very rich in mucilage, a complex mixture of polysaccharides that form a soothing gelatinous fiber when water is added. The pleasant tasting gruel is made by adding water to the bark powder. Slippery Elm Bark is recommended for soothing gastric diseases. It has several beneficial effects on digestion: 1) it reduces bowel transit time; 2) it absorbs toxins from the bowel; 3) increases fecal bulk and dilutes stool materials thereby reducing stool contact with the intestinal mucosa 4) it enhances beneficial bacteria in the gut. The bark has noted anti-inflammatory activity and because the mucilage resists digestion by stomachs acids and enzymes, it maintains its soothing action throughout the entire digestive system'.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 12:59 AM
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Sorry to have no magic answer, but just wanted to add my 'jingles' for you and your lovely border collie (horse people send 'jingles' for good thoughts/luck/hope to those in need...jingles referring to the jingly curb chain that some bits have).

With any luck your detective work will pay off , and in the meantime you know that there are folks out here who care about you and your furbuddy. Do keep us posted...you never know (last year one of our dogs came down with a rare condition, and we were lucky enough to have someone identify it even before our excellent vet).
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Old January 19th, 2008, 10:55 PM
ilovechloe ilovechloe is offline
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Just updating for anyone interested in Chloe's situation.

The diarrhea has stopped, maybe thanks to the slippery elm someone mentioned above!

I don't know if this new medication is helping the protein levels yet (it's still to early) but I think it's been cutting her appetite because now she pretty much refuses to eat. I've been trying everything and nothing has worked. Plus, she has this food allergy, so I can't just give her chicken and rice like I normally would. It's very frustrating... I'm contacting the vet to see what to do because she hasn't eaten pretty much anything in 3 days.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 11:06 PM
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Hopefully you can get her eating again now that the diarhea is cleared up. thanks for the update. pbp
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:10 AM
ilovechloe ilovechloe is offline
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Hey guys..

We had to put Chloe down tonight.

The leg thing was really bad, to the point where she could no longer stand or even sit. All she could do was lie down...she was a mere shadow of her former self.

The vet informed us that the situation did not look good and that Chloe most likely was suffering from lymphoma which had affected her spine. There was virtually nothing we could do, and even with chemotherapy she would have only had one more year max to live, and not in a healthy and happy state.

As the vet was putting her down, her muscles spasmed and she bit my dad. She would have never done that before..the vet said it was a completely involuntary action, but I can't stop myself from thinking maybe she knew what was happening and she was trying to make us stop. My parents are still at the emergency room because apparently my dad's finger is broken. That was the only time Chloe ever bit anyone.

Today was one of the hardest days of my life. I feel like I've lost both a best friend and a family member and the house seems strangely empty. I miss her so much.

Thanks to everyone who's helped out these past couple weeks.... I know Chloe is smiling on down at us from heaven.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:24 AM
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I'm so sorry, ilovechloe! It's hard to lose a loved one. It sounds like you made the right decision. Waiting longer would only have prolonged Chloe's suffering. Chloe knows she was well loved.

I hope your Dad's finger heals quickly. The bite was just an accident--a muscle spasm. You said it yourself: she wasn't a biter. So please don't punish yourself by reading too much into it.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Chloe
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:49 AM
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:sad: I'm so sorry you had to lose your best friend

sweet Chloe
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:50 AM
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...oh ilovechloe, I too am so very sorry to hear of your loss. But it sounds like you did the best you could for Chloe-and letting her go was the hard/best choice at this point.

Remember that when the pain of loss puts a little crack in our hearts, that same opening lets in a part of what we lost for us to keep close forever.
Chloe is free from pain and distress, and with you in your heart.

All of us of the BB are with you in spirit, I know. I'll light a candle next Monday at 10 p.m. for Chloe (part of petloss.com); I've done it many times, alas, but is really does help the grieving and healing.

You'll have great memories of Chloe, even if they're too painful to think of so soon...

p.s. please try not to think of Chloe nipping your dad; just put it from your mind...it was nothing at all to do with how Chloe felt.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:55 AM
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Rainbow Bridge
Is the magical place our pets go to when they pass away


Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.

The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Anonymous

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Old January 24th, 2008, 01:03 AM
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I am so very very sorrry for your loss of dear Chloe. I lost my last dog to cancer and he had all of the symptoms you mentioned here. It's so very very hard, they may not show any signs until it's too late. It comes on fast and furious. I am so very very sorry. God bless.

I had the vet take a paw print and save a clipping of some of my dogs hair which I now have taped to the back of his picture next to his ashes in an urn on our livingroom wall unit.

Time for little Chloe to go home now, and be greeted by all those before her.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 08:06 AM
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I am so sorry to hear about Chloe, I was hoping she was going to recover. You did the right thing, cancer is a horrible disease and Chloe is now pain free.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 01:38 PM
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Sorry to hear about Chloe. I agree with the comment re: her biting your dad - she didn't mean it, she just couldn't help it, which kind of means that you did the right thing by letting her go to a better place.
Chloe
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Old January 24th, 2008, 02:08 PM
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Old January 24th, 2008, 03:05 PM
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Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
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I am very sorry to hear about Chloe. :sad: I also agree about the biting incident....she had no idea what she was doing. My deepest condolences to you and your family for your loss.
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