Myka's transition to Raw

[want4rain]

ROFLMAO i just read your signature! and you are *quite* right about selling their babies LOL!!!

i havent been able to feed canned tripe but there was a whole load of deer stomach (emptied but not rinsed) that went down well. he had a bit of that for a week. my poor blender is now 'not for human consumption' haha!!

if you are worried about her bolting her food, try freezing the ones with bones in them. i would think the bone in the chicken would be enough calcium for today.

we feed about 2% of his body weight a day. if he looks chubby we skip a meal, if he (which it hasnt happened yet) gets really chubby we would cut back on portions. he has never really looked too thin. healthy chub yeah but never 'too' thin.

-ashley

[Myka]

Got some children to sell want4rain?

So, I'm wondering about this whole bone issue... aren't chicken and fish the only meats that have bones small enough for them to digest?

I had a bit of success shopping today, and have accumulated a few contacts for butchers who work with the farmers locally. So that should help bring costs down I think...I hope.

I bought a whole "picnic pork shoulder" for $1/lb, but once I removed the bone and all the seriously excess fat I bet it was more like $2-2.25/lb. The clostest thing to whole fish I could find were Smelts (no heads, no guts), and they were $8/lb. Not a good buy, but I had to get some sort of fish for her, and it was the only fish I could find that had the bones in and tail still on... I bought some Beef Liver for $2.50/lb, and some whole fryer chickens for $1/lb, but once I removed the skin, and threw away the back it was probably more like $1.25/lb.

I'm hearing that I can buy a 1/2 side of beef cut and wrapped for about $1.40/lb from "naturally" fed farmers. So that might be a good choice. But holy wowzers that's a LOT of beef!!

I'm REALLY hoping I can find cheaper prices in the very near future!!!

I don't eat vey much meat, and really dislike touching raw meats, so by the time I was done cutting everything up and putting it in the freezer for her I was feeling ill.

Still no diarrhea, although the beginning of her morning poo started off a bit goo-ey.

[MerlinsHope]

It's hard to say about the portion because it depends on the size and activity level of your dog. Anywhere between 2-4% of their body weight can be considered acceptable.

Again, if she bolts her food serve large pieces, always go larger. What you have in the bowl is small.

A kibble dog usually walks up to it's bowl , leans over, and eats.

On the other paw, a raw dog walks up to it's food, stands on it, jumps on it, lays on it, and starts pulling and tearing, or holds it between it's paws and hunkers down for a, 'paws-on', eating session. You want them to eat that way so that they re-learn how to properly masticate their foods. Think BIG pieces. You will never go wrong that way. Raw feeding does not mean they should walk up to their bowl, lean over and eat it like kibble.

Good luck!

[MerlinsHope]

aren't chicken and fish the only meats that have bones small enough for them to digest

No. any bone that they can pulverize is good bone.
There are nutritional bones and there are recreational type bones, w hich are usually the large 'weight bearing', bones in large animals, but all smaller bones including ribs are very consumable.

If you are squeamish in touching raw meat, all the more reason to serve large pieces, it's less handling for you and better for your baby.

[Myka]

If I give her larger pieces though, she won't be getting a variety, and she's only getting raw for one feeding a day.

I went to get her a last little bag of kibble and all three stores were out, so maybe that's a sign...

[pitgrrl]

Originally Posted by Myka

I don't eat vey much meat, and really dislike touching raw meats, so by the time I was done cutting everything up and putting it in the freezer for her I was feeling ill.

Don't worry, you'll get over that. I've been a vegetarian for 26 of my 28 years and I spent yesterday afternoon cutting up a huge cow liver, dividing up a kidney, and packaging chicken into manageable portions. It was fun!

[want4rain]

your variety doesnt have to come in a day, look at weeks instead. switch food up daily or by meal to keep 'variety'. try to get a 'complete' diet in a week (meaning organ to bone to meat ratio). Mister should only eat half a chicken in a day, sometimes we give him the entire chicken, let him eat what he will and then bury the rest for the next day. he usually eats 3/4 of the chicken the first day and the the other 1/4 the next morning, we skip giving him more those days because he busted a gut the day before.

-ash

[Myka]

Originally Posted by pitgrrl

Don't worry, you'll get over that. I've been a vegetarian for 26 of my 28 years and I spent yesterday afternoon cutting up a huge cow liver, dividing up a kidney, and packaging chicken into manageable portions. It was fun!

The chicken bothers me more than anything because you can easily see all the muscles. It feels like I am mutilating a body...oh wait, I AM!

Originally Posted by want4rain

your variety doesnt have to come in a day, look at weeks instead. switch food up daily or by meal to keep 'variety'. try to get a 'complete' diet in a week (meaning organ to bone to meat ratio). Mister should only eat half a chicken in a day, sometimes we give him the entire chicken, let him eat what he will and then bury the rest for the next day. he usually eats 3/4 of the chicken the first day and the the other 1/4 the next morning, we skip giving him more those days because he busted a gut the day before.

That's a good idea. I'm not sure if I'm feeding her too much or too little yet. I'll be watching her weight...

[want4rain]

chicken gets easier when you find the right places to chop it up quickly. with a little practice, i can hack the breast into 4 pieces, cut off the wings, legs and then cut the back into 3 pieces in under 3 minutes now... well if my knife is sharp! when i first started hacking up chicken.... it was messy. i was worried about chewing bones so i would.... smash them. with a big sledge hammer. in my kitchen... under a towel. it was really really icky until one day i was bring it home and had a bit of road rage to vent. those next few chickens were a bloody smear on my beach towel.

-ashley

[Myka]

Originally Posted by want4rain

chicken gets easier when you find the right places to chop it up quickly. with a little practice, i can hack the breast into 4 pieces, cut off the wings, legs and then cut the back into 3 pieces in under 3 minutes now... well if my knife is sharp! when i first started hacking up chicken.... it was messy. i was worried about chewing bones so i would.... smash them. with a big sledge hammer. in my kitchen... under a towel. it was really really icky until one day i was bring it home and had a bit of road rage to vent. those next few chickens were a bloody smear on my beach towel.

-ashley

OMG!! Well I didn't do that...it probably takes me a good 5-6 minutes to get the legs and wings off, break the backend of the back off, cut the breasts off the frontend of the back (toss the frontend of the back), and de-skin it all. And about 1 1/2 minutes to feel queasy...the first "crunch" gets me.

It took me about 30 minutes to hack all the meat off the bone of the picnic pork shoulder or rump, not sure which end it was. That was pretty gross too...I didn't like the tendons. Boy was there A LOT of fat on the pork! I think I kept probably only 50% of the weight of it in meat.

I didn't save the bone for her to chew on...too much fat, and I heard that big bones can chip their teeth...? Both of her canine teeth have been dead for years, plus a little tooth in the front, so hard aggressive chewing is not the greatest idea for her. Also, no where for her to chew on a messy bone like that.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by want4rain

chicken gets easier when you find the right places to chop it up quickly. with a little practice, i can hack the breast into 4 pieces, cut off the wings, legs and then cut the back into 3 pieces in under 3 minutes now... well if my knife is sharp! when i first started hacking up chicken.... it was messy. i was worried about chewing bones so i would.... smash them. with a big sledge hammer. in my kitchen... under a towel. it was really really icky until one day i was bring it home and had a bit of road rage to vent. those next few chickens were a bloody smear on my beach towel.

-ashley

Ashley, you crack me up

[Myka]

So on Sunday I went to get Myka a small bag of kibble to carry on feeding her the one cup of kibble in the evenings. Well, I went to three stores and they ALL were out of her kibble. So I figured that was an omen... She had the last of her kibble lastnight, and today was her first day off 100% raw.

She's doing very well...no digestive issues what so ever. Her nasty gas seems to have minimized or maybe even gone away completely. She isn't even gobbling her food anymore now that she can't! One thing though is that she doesn't seem to understand that she's been fed. She still follows me around looking to be fed after she's had her raw meal. I think I'm feeding her enough...

[want4rain]

Originally Posted by Myka

One thing though is that she doesn't seem to understand that she's been fed. She still follows me around looking to be fed after she's had her raw meal. I think I'm feeding her enough...

thats so funny!! im sure she will catch on eventually!! i went meat shopping on tuesday and thought of you. picked up pigs feet(1pkg of 6 halves), kidney(1), turkey legs(2)/wings(2), beef liver(slices?), beef tongue(1 whole), heart(1 whole), and cheek meat(3lbs), chicken liver(1 bucket), gizzards/heart(2 packages mix).

i like the beef heart, tongue and cheek meat because its still in the same $2 price range as most of the other cheap steaks but its ALL meat. they are also high use muscles so they have a high taurine content. i probably spent $44 on all of it? which i use to supplement his whole chicken. for each whole chicken (every 3rd day) he gets one of these packages of 2 or more meats/organs.

-ashley

[Myka]

Good ideas on the meats. I'm going to go haunt the meat markets this weekend again. I gotta try the Asian market...I just have to figure out where it is!

I think Myka thinks the raw food is a treat, and she should still get the kibble! Funny doggie! There is no kibble in the house right now, so she's out of luck!

I've noticed she's only pooping once a day now. Just one small turd in the evening. Is this normal?

[want4rain]

Mister only poops once a day and its 1/3 the size of his kibble poops. after about a day it turns white, 2 days its crumbled back into the ground. i try to get out there to pick poop up daily but i know i dont find most of them, they just fall apart so quickly and we leave the leaves on the ground here. thankfully its once a month we add fresh leaves back into his fence.

-ashley

[geisha]

I've been feeding my sams raw in the am and kibble in the pm and can't believe how formed and little their poops are. I wish my gals had rock hard stomachs like your's. White fur and splarts yuck!!! Oh yes and I've stopped giving the older gal digestive enzymes & probiotics. Thanks for that.

[Myka]

Awesome! It does make sense that the poops would be smaller and less often considering there should be much less waste with raw meats than with kibble.

I've found now that she's getting used to her raw diet that she is getting a bit pickier...she doesn't care for the Smelts, but will eat them. Maybe a different fish will be tastier for her. I think I'm going to start feeding less variety in each feeding so that she only has one option each meal...hoping that might nip any pickiness in the bud...?

[Myka]

OMG she has the worst gas tonight!!!

[Myka]

Myka didn't finish her breakfast this morning. She only ate the small slice of beef liver, about 1/5th can of Tripett, and an egg. She left the chicken leg, chicken breast, and the Smelt. So I gave her the chicken pieces, and the smelt for dinner. She chewed on them, but didn't eat much at all. She also didn't poop at all today, although she is peeing fine, and is drinking fine. Her not eating is VERY odd...she's a little pig.

Should I be worried about something or is she just being picky?

[want4rain]

i wouldnt worry about it if she is eating SOMETHING and not acting funny. she will get around to accepting dinners as jsut that.... not some weird treat moms giving her. you could try lightly cooking a little piece of it to bring out the flavor?? turn your frying pan on high, add a touch of olive oil and just touch a small portion of the meat to the pan for a few seconds. let it cool before she eats it.

-ashley

[Myka]

Ok, so this morning I gave her the "leftovers" again, and she ate ONE of the pieces of chicken, but not the other piece or the smelt. She pooped this afternoon though, just a tiny little turd. So I again fed her the leftovers tonight, and AGAIN she just chewed on them a bit, and then begged for different food. I tossed them out this time since they're a couple days old, and she'd chewed on them several times.

I found some whole (not even gutted!) Mackerel at the Asian market for $2/lb, so I'll try that instead tomorrow along with some new pieces of chicken.

If she's still not eating tomorrow I'll try cooking it a little...but I'd rather not. I don't think she'd starve herself to death...?

[MerlinsHope]

Originally Posted by Myka

Myka didn't finish her breakfast this morning. She only ate the small slice of beef liver, about 1/5th can of Tripett, and an egg. She left the chicken leg, chicken breast, and the Smelt. So I gave her the chicken pieces, and the smelt for dinner. She chewed on them, but didn't eat much at all. She also didn't poop at all today, although she is peeing fine, and is drinking fine. Her not eating is VERY odd...she's a little pig.

Should I be worried about something or is she just being picky?

Myka
Glad to know you're getting the diet going. You don't have to worry. Raw dogs eat a lot less... a lot less. I don't think she's being picky, she's probably just full. Also buy now, I'm sure her jaw is probably sore from all the exercise she's getting. I have noticed there seems to be a 10 days process where by the muscles around the jaw are swollen and sore sometimes from this mastication exercise. This is normal. Dogs won't starve themselves on purpose. That's where fasting comes in. Let her fast, give her a recreational bone and the next day, try to feed her. There is nothing wrong with what you are describing.

Please don't coat or cook raw foods attempting to change flavours. This isn't a good practice and defeats the purpose of a good raw diet. Your dog will eat when she's hungry again.

[want4rain]

I'm sure her jaw is probably sore from all the exercise she's getting. I have noticed there seems to be a 10 days process where by the muscles around the jaw are swollen and sore sometimes from this mastication exercise.

huh, i hadnt thoguht of that.

-ash

[Myka]

Originally Posted by MerlinsHope

Myka
Glad to know you're getting the diet going. You don't have to worry. Raw dogs eat a lot less... a lot less. I don't think she's being picky, she's probably just full. Also buy now, I'm sure her jaw is probably sore from all the exercise she's getting. I have noticed there seems to be a 10 days process where by the muscles around the jaw are swollen and sore sometimes from this mastication exercise. This is normal. Dogs won't starve themselves on purpose. That's where fasting comes in. Let her fast, give her a recreational bone and the next day, try to feed her. There is nothing wrong with what you are describing.

Please don't coat or cook raw foods attempting to change flavours. This isn't a good practice and defeats the purpose of a good raw diet. Your dog will eat when she's hungry again.

Awesome, thanks!

I never thought of her possibly being sore in her jaw. She does chew her toys/rubber bones a lot though. Ya, I don't really want to cook the foods at all, that's a pain in the butt, and I don't want her to really get used to that. You might be right that she's just not that hungry...she isn't acting overly hungry during the day. She really likes the pork chunks (although they gave her gas, probably because pork is so fatty), so I'm wondering if it's the bone in the meat that's putting her off...?

This morning I fed her a whole Mackerel (about 8" including tail), a chicken leg (thigh & drumstick), and a small slice of beef liver. She loves the liver. She ate that first. She chewed on the drumstick end of the chicken leg, but didn't actually eat much of it. She chewed on the Mackerel's tail for quite a while, but didn't eat much more than just the tail. She definately likes the Mackerel more than the smelts, so that's good because they are better fish for her AND cheaper!!!

[Myka]

Ok, now I'm starting to get worried...I gave her the leftovers from this morning (a chicken leg, and a Mackerel, both slightly chewed on), and all she did was sniff them and walk away. She's seeming a bit on the mellow/depressed side today. I felt her belly and she doesn't seem to mind. She took two tiny turds today which were fairly soft, but not diarrhea.

I added a couple pieces of Beef liver, and she ate that.

Maybe I should give up and put her on an Ultra grade kibble instead...? At what point do you give up?

Any thoughts?

[MerlinsHope]

She's either NOT hungry - or - she's decided to become picky. She will let you know when she is hungry. Be consistent. A meal time, give her a meal. If she doesn't eat it, take it away, but don't give her anything else... no cookies, no goodies, no nothing. With raw one doesn't give up because their dog isn't eating. When she's hungry she'll eat. Dogs don't starve themselves on purpose. What she's doing right now is making decisions and if you buy into them you will spoil her permanently.
Best
Kathy

[want4rain]

are you weighing what you feed her?? can you give a guess as to how much it is relative to how much she weighs?? it sure sounds like you are feeding her a lot!

Mister weighs 95lbs, last night he got two chicken wings, 1/4 cow tongue, and a 1/4 cup of beef liver. he ate the liver, the wings but buried the tongue for this morning.

he use to eat roughly 2-3% of his body weight daily but lately here its closer to 1%. he's a little chunky.

also, keep in mind that dogs are safely able to fast for 4-5 days, possibly longer. if she is eating SOMETHING, she is fine, you know its food related.

also(-correct me if im wrong!), she has been fed processed kibble all her life. i woudlnt be surprised if she doesnt have a mild case food poisoning. dogs are fully capable of digesting raw meat but from kibble, it takes some time for pH adjustment, intestinal adjustment.... etc. some dogs adjust quicker than others, some just take a while. have some patience. she will get over it.

-ashley

[Myka]

Ok, ok... I won't give up yet. She hasn't properly eaten since Thursday, so I thought that was need for concern. All she's eaten in that time is a few small slices of beef liver, an egg, and 1/5th can of Tripett. She HAS to be hungry.

Oh, and this morning I confirmed that it IS in fact her being picky about not wanting meat with bones in it as I fed her a chunk of pork and she gobbled it all up. She still turned her nose up at the Mackerel and chicken, but back to the fish and chicken until she eats it I guess.

I would guess that she's being fed somewhere between 1.5-2 lbs between two meals, and she weighs 75lbs. She doesn't have all day to chew on her meals either. She has to eat when she's fed.

How long can meats be refridgerated before it goes bad? I thawed that chicken last Tuesday I think...

[want4rain]

How long can meats be refridgerated before it goes bad? I thawed that chicken last Tuesday I think...

*coughs* well..... um..... thats debatable. Mister, often times, prefers his old and stinky. if its not old and stinky enough he buries it for the night and eats it old and stinky in the morning. we have developed a nose for whats too old. while he likes eating it like that... he throws it up. *sigh* his beef has to be old, his chicken fresh (still frozen preferably) most of the time... sometimes he buries that and eats it the next day. fish, eggs, pork, lamb, turkey all have to still be human consumable. a deer head hung around for 2 days this fall (night time temp of 35F, day time of 50F) before he dug into it and then it was with relish for 2 days. ew!!

-ash

[Myka]

OMG!!! *barf*

My 3 yo niece was visiting for the last week, and even though Myka likes pets and hugs from her, she doesn't like that my niece steals attention. So, now that my niece is gone Myka is back to her old self (not depressed seeming), BUT she still didn't eat her Mackerel & chicken dinner. I'm just going to keep feeding it to her morning and night until she eats it.