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View Poll Results: What food for Boo (and other dogs who can eat neither poultry not WK...) UNICHOICE
California Natural Herring and Sweet potato 0 0%
Canidae Lamb and Rice 1 8.33%
DVP Sweet potato and fish 2 16.67%
Evo Red Meat 2 16.67%
Evo +California Natural Herring 0 0%
Evo +Canidae Lamb 5 41.67%
Evo +DVP sweet potato+fish 0 0%
All of the above. 1 8.33%
Feed him canned instead. 0 0%
My choice is not here or I know something better and I've posted it below. 1 8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old September 21st, 2006, 09:32 PM
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Cider's jealous...
We have dvp in a container in the kitchen, with NV freeze dried and evo rm sitting in the bags beside it.. She ate her ground beef and rice, but kept pushing the nv and evo bags aroudn the kitchen with her head...
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  #32  
Old September 21st, 2006, 09:45 PM
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lol I'm just hoping the DVP is worth the money somehow.
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  #33  
Old September 21st, 2006, 10:01 PM
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I never saw how expensive anything other than the smallest bags of stuff were.. I had no idea the dvp was so much.. But then again I just bought the DVP ultra one, and it's cheap at like 9.50 for the small bag.. But the allergy formulas were like 17 for the same bag size..
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  #34  
Old September 21st, 2006, 10:05 PM
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Yeah, pretty expensive. More expensive than most of the other ones.
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  #35  
Old September 21st, 2006, 10:06 PM
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i've tried the DVP kibble (well dakotah did, not me LOL) and cannot say if it was better or worse than other holistic brands he liked it fine enough but no miracles came from that food, LOL! i'd rather use the money to buy real meat and supplement cheaper kibbles...
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  #36  
Old September 21st, 2006, 10:58 PM
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I pay about $30 USD for the big bag of Evo, and $35 for the big bag of Evo Red.

You can get the large kibble size for the Evo, so I'm sure they will be out with a larger kibble for the RM as well.

Last edited by greaterdane; September 21st, 2006 at 11:01 PM.
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  #37  
Old September 21st, 2006, 11:11 PM
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Cider went for the self serve dog food..
Never ever had an issue leaving kibble in the kitchen...
EVO rm opened too easy.. and she got a mouthful and liked it..
Turns out the NV freeze dried I got is chicken, and she likes that even better.. I gave her a few kibbles, went to the bathroom, and she's ROLLING on the dog food bag, and pawing at it and crying...

WOW.
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  #38  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 08:22 AM
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go cider, go!

greaterdane, where do you shop?? i got the big bag of EVO in Boston last August and it was $43 for the 28.6 lbs. i want to shop where you shop!
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  #39  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 12:36 PM
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Confused about protein

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_B
actually its not. Most raw meats are in the 20-25% protien range.

These are for lean meats, so fat would be a bit higher.

.................................... Fat (per 100g) Protein (per 100g)
Turkey
Meat, average, raw ..........1.6............... 22.6=22.6%

Chicken
Meat, average, raw ..........2.1 ...............22.3

Pork
Lean, average, raw ..........4.0 ...............21.8

Lamb
Lean, average, raw ..........8.3 ...............20.2

Beef
Lean, average, raw ..........5.1 ...............22.5

Taken from http://www.britishturkey.co.uk/nutrition/
A little bit

Can somebody help me out here about protein levels!!!

This is really confusing to me as well and maybe because I not a mathematician! Understanding that scientific research shows that high protein diets are safe and with the formulation of these high protein kibbles - specifically Innova Evo and Orijen which are in the 40% range. Understanding that raw meat is lower in protein - as stated above - when will an animal ever consume a meal that is that high in protein. Is it taxing on the body of a dog to consume a diet rich in this much protein in one shot? That's where I don't understand the difference when these diets try to mirror the biological diet. If my dog is just going to pee the protein out he doesn't need - should I be paying for more protein. I don't even know how much he needs or can use. I don't know how much protein is even consumed in a natural diet (for a wolf for example).
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  #40  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 12:39 PM
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Superwanda: the problem with the little chart that Scott but up, is that meat is wet, while kibble is dry. Yeah, protein takes up 42% of evo, but add enough water to it so that it is the same density of nutrients as raw meat, and it drops down to slightly less than what is in raw meat. If you look at my post below Scott's post, you'll see that, when you compare absolute protein values, evo has slightly less protein than raw meat does, and absolute values are what really matter anyways.
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  #41  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 01:34 PM
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Thanks Puppyluv,

I found this website where you can look up the protein
content of over 6000 foods (http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_ma...ecode=12354500)
Choose "Search" on this page and you will be directed to their food
composition search engine.

If you look up chicken breast, raw, meat only, on the USDA web site, you
will find that 100 grams of this meat contains 75 grams water, 23 grams of
protein, and 1 gram fat and 1 gram ash (which is the mineral content). If
you look up this same food after it is cooked it will contain less water
and more protein and fat - now it has 65 g of water and 31 grams of protein, 4 grams of fat and 1 gram of ash

So for 100g of chicken you are changing the protein from 23g to 31g just by cooking it.

Just like to figure all this stuff out!!!

Last edited by SuperWanda; September 22nd, 2006 at 04:59 PM. Reason: link wasn't working
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  #42  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 04:09 PM
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Exactly.
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  #43  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda

So for 100g of chicken you are changing the protein from 23g to 31g just by cooking it.

Just like to figure all this stuff out!!!
Not exactly. 100g of raw meat has 23 g and 100g of cooked meat has 31 g, but cooking 100g of cooked meat will not turn that 23g into 31g, it will just decrease the 100g to 90g due to water loss. so %protein increases, but absolute doesn't.
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  #44  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 04:40 PM
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Ok.... I did take biochemistry. I guess I'm not too clear on what absolute protein is and how you determine that amount????

Am I going to have to whip out my mass spectrometer???? Cause I don't wanna have to do that
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  #45  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda
Ok.... I did take biochemistry. I guess I'm not too clear on what absolute protein is and how you determine that amount????

Am I going to have to whip out my mass spectrometer???? Cause I don't wanna have to do that
LOL god no!! NO MASS SPEC PLEASE!!!! (I'm done with analytical chemistry thank you) I just mean "absolute" rather than a percentage. When you were saying that cooking the breast increases the protein from 23g to 31g you weren't quite correct. It would stay at 23g of protein, but because the water content drops, the total mass drops. so it goes from 23g protein/100g (23% protein) to 23g protein/90g (26%) ( I don't know if it actually loses 10g of water, it may lose more). 100g of cooked breast has 31g of protein, but when that same breast was raw, it probably weighed more like 110-115g when it was raw. I'm just saying you can't REALLY compare 100g of raw to 100g o cooked and say "look! it increased in protein!!" because it didn't. that 100g of cooked started out as more than 100g of raw and always had that much protein.
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  #46  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 04:58 PM
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To end up with 100 g of cooked chicken you have to start out with MORE than 100 g raw because you're cooking off a lot of the water, which is why 100 g of cooked chicken has more protein than 100 g of raw chicken.

That's about the simplest way I can think of to explain it.
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  #47  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:18 PM
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I see what you are saying - if i go to that site and put in 200g of raw chicken, then I end up with 46% protein.

I'm not sure if 100g of cooked can be compared to 200g raw but I see the point you are trying to make.

So, now I will have to get some cooked and raw chicken for the final experiment!!!!

Is it therefore generally wise to add more water to the kibble before serving?

Last edited by SuperWanda; September 22nd, 2006 at 05:22 PM.
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  #48  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:21 PM
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i :love: you guys! cuz I'll be going to be a bit smarter tonight, LOL!
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  #49  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
if i go to that site and put in 200g of chicken, and cook it up in our magic oven, then I end up with 46% protein
er, no the protein % stays the same no matter how much cooked chicken you make. it's the grams of fat, protein, etc that will increase

say you drink 1 glass of 1% milk. drinking 2 glasses will not make it 2% - see?
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  #50  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:27 PM
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Yes - I got my cooked and raw chicken mixed up and changed my previous post.
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  #51  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Yes - I got my cooked and raw chicken mixed up and changed my previous post.
doesn't matter if the meat is raw or cooked... the absolute value (%) stays the same no matter the quantity just as my example of a glass of milk says...
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  #52  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda
I see what you are saying - if i go to that site and put in 200g of raw chicken, then I end up with 46% protein.

I'm not sure if 100g of cooked can be compared to 200g raw but I see the point you are trying to make.

So, now I will have to get some cooked and raw chicken for the final experiment!!!!

Is it therefore generally wise to add more water to the kibble before serving?
The only thing adding water to it will do, is 1) make it moist (obviously, Iknow) and 2) technically it will decrease the %protein, if you were to weigh the total meal (food+water). If dry food came wet, but was otherwise had the exact same composition, the % protein of all the foods out there would drop dramatically, because you have to include the water in the measurements. So back to my argument for Evo.... if Evo came wet (ie. not dried, rather than canned) it would have a quite similar composition (nutrient wise) to meat.
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  #53  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppyluv
Not exactly. 100g of raw meat has 23 g and 100g of cooked meat has 31 g, but cooking 100g of cooked meat will not turn that 23g into 31g, it will just decrease the 100g to 90g due to water loss. so %protein increases, but absolute doesn't.
I thought absolute protein and % protein were different????

I think I'm going to burst a brain cell here people!!!!
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  #54  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:43 PM
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How come nobody's feeding Fromm? If they would sell it in my area,I would probably buy it,they have 4 different kind of fish food (perfect for dogs with allergies) I really like what I saw when I checked out their website.Might be good for Boo?
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  #55  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda
I thought absolute protein and % protein were different????

I think I'm going to burst a brain cell here people!!!!
they are in the sense that, while absolute protein may not change, depending on the other stuff, % protein might.

Absolute protein is simply, how many grams there are. But % protein is how many grams of protein relative to how much the entire thing weighs.

So a raw 100g chicken breast has: Absolute=23 grams Percent=23%
But then you cook it, and it loses water, so it now weighs 85 grams (let's just say)
so it has: Absolute=(still) 23 grams Percent=% (23/90*100=26)
A cooked 100g chicken breast has: Absolute=31 grams Percent=31%
But before it was cooked, it weighed 130 grams (let's just say)
so it had Absolute=(still) 31 grams Percent=24%
(these estimations of pre and post cooking weights aren't accurate, because they should, in theory equal out to always be the same %protein for all the pre-cooked and then for all the pos-cooked breasts, but this is just for the sake of explanation)
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  #56  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 06:47 PM
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Food for Boo

Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll
copperbelle, where do you go?

and did you ever have trouble bringing food back over the border?... or do you stay in the states overnight?...

I have a cottage in the U.S. so bringing it back has not been a problem.
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  #57  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
How come nobody's feeding Fromm? If they would sell it in my area,I would probably buy it,they have 4 different kind of fish food (perfect for dogs with allergies) I really like what I saw when I checked out their website.Might be good for Boo?
They still have menadione, no? Or are they the company who's removed it from their products, but haven't changed their website yet?
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  #58  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 06:51 PM
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Ok... Food for Boo

My cottage is in New York state but I have been buying my Solid Gold from a supplier in Vermont. I am going to give him a call tomorrow and see what he thinks. He was a breeder of Akita's and has been a supplier for Sold Gold for over 20 years. He is a smart man so he should have some opinions on the changes.
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  #59  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 06:59 PM
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I really don't know what menadione is,guess it's bad....
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  #60  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
I really don't know what menadione is,guess it's bad....
see : http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....ight=menadione
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