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Old January 11th, 2009, 11:33 AM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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Am I starving my cats?

I switched my cats food from RX to over the counter because of $$. Mikey has a mega colon and Ozzy is a diabetic. I checked in with a diabetic web site and there they had a list of foods noting protein, fat, and fiber. From there I figured out what my cats needs were and went with high protein, low fat, and not too much fiber. The reason for not a lot of fiber was that it bulked Mikey up and caused problems where he ended up with his colon blocked. My question is my my diabetic cat is always hungry. I feed them 4x a day with small meals. I give them Friskies pouches 3oz. and Fancy Feast. Elegant Medleys 3 oz.. It equals to 3 pouches and 1 can a day for the two of them. Ozzy weighs about 12 to 13 lbs. and Mikey 13 to 14 lbs. Mikey was once weighed in at 21 lbs. What worries me is that their shape changed by their back hips: what I mean is that they are thinner there. They do have some hanging belly fat! Is that normal or are they starving?
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Old January 11th, 2009, 12:03 PM
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Is the diabetic cat on insulin? How often are his levels checked?
We have a few people on the board with diabetic animals; they should be able to help you. My cats are pretty well upholstered (and not diabetic, touch wood) but some of them are just greedy pigs. However, in a cat with a chronic disease, I think appetite is a big indicator of how he is doing overall, so you should pay attention to that.
The food you are giving is fairly low quality and you could improve their nutrition by paying a more for grain-free canned food such as Wellness. It is more expensive, but a little goes a long way and it doesn't have any 'fillers' or additives.
You were wise to get them off RX food, which is equally bad (despite being promoted by vets, who generally have not studied nutrition for more than five minutes) and has hardly any meat; squeezing vitamins out of yellow corn and rice polishings does not come naturally to cats, who are obligate carnivores.
Even if you supplemented the Friskies with a top-quality kibble, you - and they - would be ahead.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 12:12 PM
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My question is my my diabetic cat is always hungry.
My questions are similar to badger's - is Ozzy on insulin, and if so, what type and how much? Do you check his blood glucose at home? How long has he been diabetic?

There are definitely better wet foods out there. You might even consider a raw diet, if possible, as that would likely benefit both your cat's issues.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 12:30 PM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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Yes, Ozzy is on insulin.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 12:39 PM
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Yes, Ozzy is on insulin.
What type, how much, and for how long? And do you test his blood glucose?

The reason I ask is because excessive hunger in a diabetic can indicate that the diabetes is not regulated. If that's the case, Ozzy may indeed need more food than you're giving him.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 12:42 PM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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Sorry missed the other questions you asked. Oz is on Lantus insulin and get 5 units twice a day. He gets a fructosamine level check about every 3 months. His levels are usually high and he has been on several different insulins.I do not check him at home. He has been a diabetic for about 6 years now.I don't think I could handle giving them raw food. You have to buy that special don't you? I agree with not giving them corn fillers and such. I will check out Wellness, never heard of it. What did you mean by adding kibbles along with Friskies. Now I feel I am doing my cats harm!
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Old January 11th, 2009, 01:09 PM
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psw,I changed my 3 cats from Fancy Feast to Wellness,I buy the 12oz cans,feed them half in the morning half at night.
In buying a large can,it is really no more expensive than Fancy Feast.
Hope you can find it in Chicago,you have to go to a pet-supply store though,not super-market or Wal-Mart.

My one cat who has HyperThyroidism and is on meds,gained his weight back,except for the hips and backlegs,just like yours.
The vet thinks he is a bit arthritic..
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Old January 11th, 2009, 01:15 PM
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Hi Chico, I am very interested in Wellness cat food. Did I understand correctly that all 3 cats eat half of the can in the am and the other half later? That sounds like something I can deal with. I will check pet stores in my area to see if they carry it. Thanks for the info. In fact I appreciate the responses I have received so far!
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Old January 11th, 2009, 01:19 PM
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He gets a fructosamine level check about every 3 months.
Unfortunately fructosamine tests aren't really valid for determining insulin doses. They're great for diagnosing diabetes, and for confirming regulation once it's been achieved, but not for day to day regulation. Has Ozzy ever had a glucose curve done at the vets? What dose of Lantus did he start out at, and how fast was that dose raised?

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His levels are usually high and he has been on several different insulins.I do not check him at home.
I would seriously consider learning to home test. It's the only way to truly know how he's doing on any given dose, and while it has a bit of a steep learning curve, once you get the hang of it, it's an extremely valuable tool. This link has more info, but if you have any specific questions about it, let me know: http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-home-test.htm

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I don't think I could handle giving them raw food. You have to buy that special don't you?
You can find pre-packaged raw at some of the better pet food stores, or you can learn to make it yourself (which requires some research but isn't that difficult once you know the basic requirements). You could always start with just offering some pieces of lightly boiled or broiled chicken as treats and go from there.

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I will check out Wellness, never heard of it.
Wellness is a great food, just make sure you get the flavours with the little yellow triangle that says "grain-free".

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What did you mean by adding kibbles along with Friskies. Now I feel I am doing my cats harm!
I strongly advise NOT adding kibble to your cats diets. This would be a big step backwards, for both the megacolon issue and the diabetes.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 01:47 PM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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I am not as adept as you with forums so I will answer your questions and post responses as best as I can.

1. I don't think Oz has ever had a curve done. I am also of am limited on funds to bring him into the vet often.
2. As far as testing at home, are you talking blood glucose test? I think I could manage that since my oldest son was a diabetic. I will check out the link you sent.
3. I think that the pre-packaged raw food is pricey. Right? Cooking it myself, probably not.
4. I like the thought of trying wellness and will look for the yellow triangle.
5. Won't try kibbles esp since I don't even know what that is!

I had mentioned that both cats were slimmer at their hips and had that hanging belly fat. Is that a worry or is that because I one point they were overweight?
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Old January 11th, 2009, 02:04 PM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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To Sugarcatom. I have been on that website before and that is where I got information on cat food, the Janet and Binky list of foods and info on testing. I will look into it more on testing at home.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 02:17 PM
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I checked out the "properties" of Wellness and it seems high in fat, but it is low on fiber,which is good for Mikey. Then I worry if mikey will gain back all the weight he lost!! Each cat has such special and different nutrition needs I was trying to meet in the middle for both of them!
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Old January 11th, 2009, 02:25 PM
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Kibble is basically dry food. Many here on the forum feel that cats should not be eating dry food period, especially if they are diabetic or have other health issues because dry food is loaded with carbs and difficult for their bodies to process.

My Amber is raw fed. Three or four days out of the week, she gets the www.felinefuture.com Instincts TC mix that I prepare, and the rest of the time she gets RMBs, the occasional egg, or some offal. It really is cheaper than a lot of premium canned foods; I would not be able to afford it if it wasn't. I think it would help a lot, if you are okay with making the switch. The most important thing is that you are comfortable with any change you are making and take it at a pace you can handle.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by psw9368 View Post
I checked out the "properties" of Wellness and it seems high in fat, but it is low on fiber,which is good for Mikey. Then I worry if mikey will gain back all the weight he lost!! Each cat has such special and different nutrition needs I was trying to meet in the middle for both of them!
It's typically excess carbohydrates that make cats overweight, and while Wellness is fairly high in fat, it is low carb. As long as the total calorie intake is appropriate for the size of your kitties, it shouldn't be a problem. I really think it would be fine for both of them, providing they like it. Pick up a couple of the smaller 3oz cans and try mixing a tiny bit in with their old food, gradually increasing the proportion.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 02:54 PM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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Thanks sugarmom. I found several places not far from where I live that sell Wellness. I will check it out for sure. Maybe this food will be more filling for them besides good for them. I appreciate all the advice.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 02:54 PM
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I
1. I don't think Oz has ever had a curve done. I am also of am limited on funds to bring him into the vet often.
I hear ya, vet care can be super expensive. That's why home-testing is so great. Just as an example, for one single blood glucose test at my vet clinic, it costs $24. If I do it at home myself, it's 6 cents for the lancet and 67 cents for the test strip (depends on what brands you use). A full curve (bg test every couple of hours) at the clinic is over $100, not to mention the huge amount of stress my cat goes through, which makes the accuracy of the results questionable.

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2. As far as testing at home, are you talking blood glucose test? I think I could manage that since my oldest son was a diabetic. I will check out the link you sent.
Yup, you even use the same glucometers that humans use. The most common place to test from is the cat's ears. There is a little vein that runs along the outside edge and when the ears are warmed up enough, you can get a nice drop of blood with no pain to the cat. The biggest hurdle is getting some cats used to having their ears handled. You could even start gently playing with his ears right now, and give him treats when you do so that he associates it with good things.

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3. I think that the pre-packaged raw food is pricey. Right?
It can be, yes, although they might actually eat less of it than other commercial foods because it's more digestible. But we can cross that bridge later. For now, try the Wellness.

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I had mentioned that both cats were slimmer at their hips and had that hanging belly fat. Is that a worry or is that because I one point they were overweight?
It's probably just excess flab from having lost weight, many house cats have that. What would be worrisome is if they were getting bony over their backs and hips and you could feel their vertebrae. If that was the case, having them weighed at the vets might be a good idea (and it should be free).
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Old January 11th, 2009, 02:58 PM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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I wanted to add this "quote" but I think I did it wrong. Oh well you get my drift!



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Old January 12th, 2009, 09:40 AM
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I love that quote.

You have gotten great food advice from sugarcatmom. Cats don't digest carbs like humans do so it is wasted calories.

I also like Nature's Variety, Instinct canned. They have many different flavours (venison is all my cat's favourite) and have no potato or grain in it:

They also make a prepared raw, but I found it more expensive than making my own up. I look for sales at the local butcher and he saves chicken backs for pet owners.

http://www.naturesvariety.com/instinct_cat_can
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Old January 13th, 2009, 01:14 AM
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Yes, I have received a lot of good advice. I found a pet store near my house and bought about 5 cans of Wellness and so far fed them 2, they loved it! I work at Walgreens and picked up a meter to see if I can test Ozzy's blood glucose levels. This should be fun to do! Thank you love4 on the website for Nature's Variety. Hopefully I will get everything straightened out and things will go back to normal. I have been spending so much time on the computer, nothing is getting done in my home! Glad you like my quote. Thanks for all your help and advice!
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Old January 13th, 2009, 08:24 AM
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Yes, I have received a lot of good advice. I found a pet store near my house and bought about 5 cans of Wellness and so far fed them 2, they loved it!
Yahoo!

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I work at Walgreens and picked up a meter to see if I can test Ozzy's blood glucose levels. This should be fun to do!
Good luck, and let me know how it goes. The key points:
  • Make sure Ozzy's ear is warm enough, so rubbing it with a rice-filled sock heated up in the microwave for a few seconds is a really good idea.
  • Not applying enough pressure with the lancet device is a common mistake (and you might want to start with the lancet on the deepest setting).
  • Use a folded Kleenex for backing behind the ear when you poke it, then you can use it to apply pressure on the poke-hole afterwards to stop the bleeding and prevent bruising.
  • It may take a few tries before you have a successful test, so don't get disheartened. Just give Ozzy some treats (something really special that he only gets at test-time) and try again later. My cat actually comes running for his tests, cause he knows he's getting a couple pieces of freeze-dried lamb.
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Old January 13th, 2009, 02:33 PM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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sugar cat mom, i am so discouraged and overwhelmed!! This morning Ozzy got sick and it was the cat food. He kept the turkey down fine, perhaps because what I fed him last night was the Wellness chicken & herring?? After he got sick I gave him some Metoclopramide (rx), you can see this is a recurring problem, which comes and goes. I fed him 1/4 of a can of Wellness chicken, which he ate and held down. I fed him the other 1/4 at noon and he did not finish it which is unusual. My other cat did not eat it all either, so now I wonder of the really do love it??!! I am going to exchange the remaining cans for the turkey which seemed to be ok last night!
Now the overwhelming testing! All I did was just touch Ozzy's ear and he folded them up. This may take some gathering up courage on my part. Testing my son on his finger was one thing but the cat's ear is quite another. Thanks for the tips and I WILL gather courage. All the vets and assistants that have worked on Ozzy always comments how calm and sweet he is and he is great when giving him his injections, but now this will be an adjustment. I am going to wait, perhaps for tomorrow. When I return the other cans I will pick up some Wellness treats as well. Wish me luck!!:sad:
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Old January 13th, 2009, 08:16 PM
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sugar cat mom, i am so discouraged and overwhelmed!! This morning Ozzy got sick and it was the cat food.
Oh no! Well that certainly sucks. Maybe Ozzy and Mikey need a slower introduction to the new food to give their stomach time to adjust. You could mix just a couple of tsps in with their old food and then gradually increase the amount (while decreasing the old stuff) over a week or so. Mixing some probiotics into the food could also help their intestinal flora adjust to the change. I like to use capsules from the health food store, preferably non-dairy, high-potency, and containing a variety of organisms. Natural Factors makes some good ones, and you only need a pinch.


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Now the overwhelming testing! All I did was just touch Ozzy's ear and he folded them up. This may take some gathering up courage on my part.
Take your time. It is nerve-wracking at first, I admit. It also takes some practice to get your fine motor skills working confidently, kind of like when you're learning to type or sew or something. You have to consciously think of every move you're making, but after a while it will become second nature, to both you and Ozzy. Maybe just take a few days to get him used to his ears being handled. Incorporate it into some play/petting sessions, giving them a good rub, taking them between your fingers, folding them, squeezing them. It will also hopefully give you a sense that you don't have to be timid with them - cat ears can take a fair bit of manhandling! And then make sure he gets a treat for being such a good boy, even if he isn't!
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Old January 14th, 2009, 12:35 AM
psw9368 psw9368 is offline
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Sugar cat mom, you give great advice, I truly appreciate it. I am off from work the next 2 days so maybe I won't feel so stressed. When I came home from work tonight all seemed fine with the boys so will keep my fingers crossed that Oz will continue to hold down his food. I watched the video from the feline diabetes web site and that was informative! I am armed with lots of help so with luck things will go more smoothly. Thanks again for your expert help and your patience!
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