Alert:City eyes tighter leash on pit bulls LONDON ON!!!

[morgiesmommy]

I think you should make Brutus into a princess. LOL. He would look very pretty.

[BullLover]

Brutus can't be a princess. He's a boy. I can't make him any more feminine then he already is. Maybe I should go get chains and spikes and make him a scary dog. I'll put on a bunch of temporary tattoos too! Just kidding. I was thinking of knitting something. Perhaps a trip to Wal-Mart will be in order. I've got to have something to cover that mussle. Maybe I'll make him be a flower?

[Conners]

Originally Posted by BullLover

oh, now I want to dress up my dogs.....Brutus could be? Any suggestions?

Oh Brutus with his colouring would look good at anything. What about a pirate? Or a jailbird with the black and white stripes? or a playmate as in playboy. All you need is a black bow tie and a couple of large cuffs for his front legs.

[Conners]

Originally Posted by BullLover

Brutus can't be a princess. He's a boy. I can't make him any more feminine then he already is. I've got to have something to cover that mussle. Maybe I'll make him be a flower?

Can't be a princess but you can make him a flower? Come on girl...thing MASCULINE! To cover the muzzle is easy. Make hin into a sheik(sp?). Then you cover the muzzle. That's why I'm making Shasta into an arabian princess. It will cover the muzzle with the vail.

[love my dogs]

you guys are funny....you are really going to dress them up aren't you?

[morgiesmommy]

I Know what you should do!!
You should get Brutus and Duke together and do a bride and groom! We all saw how much they love eachother!
LOL.

[morgiesmommy]

Yes Love my Dogs, Morgie is really going to be a ladybug (much to my husband's dismay who would prefer to dress her up in Harley chaps and a spiked collar).

[Conners]

Originally Posted by morgiesmommy

Yes Love my Dogs, Morgie is really going to be a ladybug (much to my husband's dismay who would prefer to dress her up in Harley chaps and a spiked collar).

i think the lady bug sounds sweet and Morgie will look really adorable as a little love bug.

[Conners]

In Off Topics in Halloween Customes for our kids (pets), I started this topic a day or two ago. Should we move it over there or just continue here? LOL There's some cute costume idea's there if you want to check it out. I like the flying skunk.

[Conners]

There have been no attacks by pit bulls in the news for a long time now. That just seems kinda funny as before that's ALL we heard. And I'm not talking London, I'm talking anywhere in Ontario.
Has the media slowed down or have the criminals gone to another breed that the public isn't interested yet??? It's just a thought.

[love my dogs]

Oh no conners, have you not heard? Pitbulls are banned, so now we don't have to worry about them anymore (sarcasm).....if there were attacks AFTER the ban, then it would prove that bsl doesn't work....we can't have that now can we?

[Conners]

:sad: You're right. So are the criminals being just as cautious as the responsible owners then, for now? I can't see that happening. Course a lot of them abandoned their dogs. I'm going to do another search. I only searched for Ontario. Maybe I should do a search of attacks by dogs, but not pit bull related. That might be a more appropriate search.

[bluntman]

Yes, I have noticed there not in the news now. That is mainly because the ban was passed and there just not newsworthy any more. The media had a feild day with them, and now they will wait for the court chalange, before they stirr the pot again. But I do think things will be different the next time around, Bob MacDonald and the rest of the flunkies, will go on about what a waste of time the challange is, and blab the same old song and dance they have done fore years. While some of the more knowlegable reporters out there will speak there mind, and explain the truth behind why the ban is being chalanged, and back up there statements with facts, not myths and hearsay.
The battle is more about the rights of Canadian Citizens, than it is about pit bulls, so lets just hope we can save both.

[Conners]

Originally Posted by bluntman

Yes, I have noticed there not in the news now. That is mainly because the ban was passed and there just not newsworthy any more. The media had a feild day with them, and now they will wait for the court chalange, before they stirr the pot again. But I do think things will be different the next time around, Bob MacDonald and the rest of the flunkies, will go on about what a waste of time the challange is, and blab the same old song and dance they have done fore years. While some of the more knowlegable reporters out there will speak there mind, and explain the truth behind why the ban is being chalanged, and back up there statements with facts, not myths and hearsay.
The battle is more about the rights of Canadian Citizens, than it is about pit bulls, so lets just hope we can save both.

I believe Ruby said it would take (something like) 8 months before the first court date since Aug. 29th. And as far as Canadian Citizens, I know that Ontario residence are being dictated to, at least the ones with pitties. It's like walking on egg shells with everything we do. Where are our rights? We can't even protect ourselves without the fear of our dogs being put down and us fined and/or jailed. In evrything we do, we have to read through the vague laws and bylaws so carefully to make sure we're not making mistakes and come Oct. 28th, it's going to be h*ll!
I'm more afraid now than I ever was, and Bryant made this law to protect ALL Ontarians. So why don't I feel protected and instead feel fear?
I feel like the target. I feel like the criminal that needs to tread so carefully. I bet that's how most of the pittie owners feel and doubt my fears are just mine.
This calm before the storm is killing me. I'm trying to enjoy all I can with Shasta as we wait for news. We wait for news about the London bylaw and we wait for news about how Ruby will fight this.
Does anyone know when the London bylaw meeting at City Hall is and what time? I want to go. I can't stand this sitting back and not knowing!!!

[Luvmypit]

Are you talking about Bob MacDonald from the Sun.

God I hate that guy!

[Georgiapeaches]

Originally Posted by Conners

Does anyone know when the London bylaw meeting at City Hall is and what time? I want to go. I can't stand this sitting back and not knowing!!!

I'm not sure when it is exactly but I'll try to find out!

Anyone hear the upcoming individual prospectives for our next city of London election?? Ummmmm...the choices kinda stink

[Conners]

Originally Posted by Georgiapeaches

I'm not sure when it is exactly but I'll try to find out!

Anyone hear the upcoming individual prospectives for our next city of London election?? Ummmmm...the choices kinda stink

Thanks. Muchly appreciated. Are you still going?
And other than Anne Marie...no. who?

[Georgiapeaches]

It's in the Londoner today. The potential candidates are, Gord Hume, Tom Gosnell, Gordon mackenzie(former banker), Dianne Cunningham & Anne marie DeCicco.

The meeting is this coming Monday for the proposed pitbull bylaw (September 26th) not sure what time it is on the agenda...will find out.

There is a letter in the Londoner today, "License for Parents?"
In one paragraph it states, "Funny isn't it, anyone at all can be a parent but only the determined and somewhat wealthy can be a dog owner in London."

another sentence from the letter,
..."I'm a fairly intelligent person with great reasoning skills, multi-tasking capabilities and the tenacity and loyalty of a recently banned breed of dog (no, bitches have not been banned, only specific breeds of 'em!)."

[Conners]

I looked on the net for it, but can't find it in the Londoner. I did find this though and it doesn't look like their decision regarding London's proposed bylaw will be decided on until sometimes in Oct.
Sorry GeorgiaPeaches, not to take away from your post, but if I don't put this down now, I will forget later.

New teeth in dog legislation can be
costly for owners

By MARDY BACIGALUPO, The Londoner

If you are a pit bull owner, you only have about five weeks (until Oct. 28) to get your dog spayed or neutered and make sure it’s muzzled and leashed while in public. If you own a different breed of dog – one deemed dangerous – there are some things you should know, too.

Effective Aug. 29, when the amendments to the provincial Dog Owner’s Liability Act – called DOLA for short – kicked in, if your dog bites or attacks another dog or person or its behaviour constitutes a menace to the safety of people or domestic animals, the penalties are more serious.

You could face a fine of up to $10,000 ($60,000 for corporations), six months in jail and the court will be able to make restitution orders requiring convicted persons to make compensation or restitution to victims. Prior to Aug. 29, the maximum fine was $5,000 and there was no jail sentence.

“You have basically 45 days to make sure you have a muzzle that fits the requirements and is most appropriate for your pit bull,” explains Jay Stanford, division manager, environmental programs and customer relations. “All owners of dogs should be alerted that these changes to the provincial rules apply to any dog that has a tendency to be aggressive. Take the time to take that dog to obedience training – which should have happened in the first place – because if your dog happens to bite now, the rules are much tougher; whether you have a pit bull or not.”

But Mr. Stanford says there is no answer currently for the definition of aggression.

“It’s a very big unknown,” he says. “DOLA refers to the word menacing as opposed to aggression. The definition of menacing or the threshold of menacing/not menacing may not be known until it is tested in the court system. This area is viewed as being problematic with respect to enforcing DOLA. Over time it will become clearer.”

Yvette Van Veen, a London pet behaviour consultant and pet columnist for The Londoner, is concerned about the definition of aggression as well. She says aggression can mean many things to many people.

If we were talking people and not dogs, and you disagree with someone, is that aggressive, she asks? If you refuse to participate (passively) is that aggressive? What about a lawsuit? What about a harsh word? What about slamming a door? What about punching someone? What is okay and what is not?

“The answer is so subjective, which is part of the concern for the bylaw,” she says. “If a puppy nips, is that aggression? I ask in my classes for everyone who has a nipping puppy to raise a hand. Almost all do. That would make puppy nipping fall into ‘normal’ behaviour that needs to be addressed, but not necessarily aggression. If a puppy nips and breaks the skin, how does one determine it was a nip, and not an aggressive puppy? I have seen puppies eight weeks of age ready to tear a strip off someone. It's frightening to see a ball of fluff that is in such a rage.”

Within the amended liability act is a new section called pit bull controls regulations. Among other things, it prohibits the breeding, transferring, abandoning, importing and training to fight pit bulls, except as permitted by the Act or regulations under it.

It provides grandfathering provisions for pit bulls, search and seizure of dugs under a warrant (or without a warrant under certain conditions) and delivery of seized or abandoned pit bulls to a pound operated by or on behalf of a municipality, Ontario or designated body. (They can be exempted for research facilities – they are allowed to own, breed and so forth).

In addition to provincial legislation, a new municipal bylaw will regulate and provide for licensing rules of pit bulls. According to Mrs. Van Veen, there is ample evidence that breed specific bans don’t work. She says the city officials currently working on creating the bylaw are considering placing nearly impossible restrictions on pit bull owners.

“I think if there were more preventative measures in place, the safety of the community would be increased and I don’t think we would need the breed specific ban,” she says. “All dogs can be dangerous and it’s serious regardless of the breed. Toy breeds have killed children. I’ve seen some very serious aggression in toy breeds. It’s not pleasant.”

She says owning a dog should involve a similar process as obtaining a driver’s license. You need to gain knowledge – educate yourself about the rules of the road. And when you speed or find yourself in a situation that violates the laws of the highway traffic act, maybe the first time you’ll get a warning. Maybe you’ll get a fine.

Similarly, if you have a dog – of any breed – and it indicates dangerous or aggressive tendencies and someone alerts officials about it, maybe the first time you would get a warning. Maybe some suggestions for encouraging better dog behaviour. She says part of the problem is people aren’t educated first and therefore don’t know how to train their dog so it isn’t aggressive. They may not know their own actions are in fact encouraging aggressive behaviour.

“The biggest trigger for aggression in dogs is tying a dog out on a cable for a prolonged period of time. Depending on the dog, this will definitely lead to aggression,” Mrs. Van Veen says. “I am not convinced that after the fact enforcement is going to work. There needs to be a focus that educates because as long as people don’t know what to do, I’m not sure what they will learn from being punished.”

What may happen is people could hide their dogs from the public eye. Mrs. Van Veen says maybe dog owners will walk their dogs late at night so no one sees what kind of dog they have. They could also become afraid of those who enforce the bylaw – although the city is not sure yet who that may be.

Lack of human or animal socialization could also cause a dog to become aggressive. Ignoring your dog while it’s in the backyard all day long could also cause aggression.

This kind of education has proven useful in Calgary where 90 per cent of dogs are licensed, compared to London’s 50 per cent.

Mrs. Van Veen says it’s nearly impossible for dog owners in Calgary not to know their responsibility before they buy their dog.

“We would love to have every single dog licensed and then some,” Mr. Stanford says. “Calgary has things in place that we can’t have here in Ontario (because of downloading from the provincial government). We can learn how we can get to a certain point from Calgary’s example. They have some very tough laws because of the province.”

According to Mr. Stanford, there are currently about 24,000 licensed dogs in London. A little more than 700 of them are pit bulls. One could assume there are more than that in the city, but he says it’s tough to know for sure. It’s something the city is working on.

What complicates this is the definition of a pit bull. Something Mrs. Van Veen says needs clarity.

“Right now, many people are looking at their dogs and wondering, “Does my dog fall under the law? It's a mutt, a mixed breed, does that animal count as a pit bull? No one knows,” Mrs. Van Veen says. “Perhaps if politicians are looking at eliminating ‘fighter dogs’, then they should echo and enforce ‘game bred-fighter dogs’, which is technically illegal under the SPCA's mandate. Game bred refers to dogs that have been bred with the tenacity and ability to fight regardless of breed. I think the Ontario government would have been better focusing on game bred, rather than a specific breed.”

On Sept. 12, a public information meeting was held to hear concerns from Londoners regarding the proposed bylaw. Before that meeting, the soonest the bylaw could have been passed was Sept. 19. After the Sept. 12 meeting, the environment and transportation committee recommended city staff find more information in response to a handful of unanswered questions raised by the public.

The next time the committee meets is this Monday, Sept. 26. But Mr. Stanford says they won’t even have all the answers by then. He says it will probably be late October – after he attends a provincially organized training session for people involved in enforcing these bylaws – before he has the answers they are looking for.

“Our priority is to protect the public in London and to do that we have to think about what are the rules that need to be in place,” he explains. “One of the concerns is, what is a pit bull? That’s a very good question and we don’t know how to answer that so we will look to the province to help us interpret that.”

Ms. Van Veen hopes when the bylaw is finally written, it will consider that all dogs can be dangerous and that bylaws don’t need to be breed specific.

[Georgiapeaches]

Yes, I read that. I'm just wondering if anything has at least been added or disregarded since Sept. 12th. I'd like to see what they discuss this coming Monday.

[Conners]

Originally Posted by Georgiapeaches

Yes, I read that. I'm just wondering if anything has at least been added or disregarded since Sept. 12th. I'd like to see what they discuss this coming Monday.

You're sitting on eggs like I am...like we ALL probably are. Is there anyway to find out any information prior to the meeting? Like we need spies in City Hall.

[gdamadg]

I hate to add this. But at least it is a responsible dog owner, paying for the vet bills. But the poor dogs being PTS.

Pit Bull attack in Calgary

[Conners]

Originally Posted by gdamadg

I hate to add this. But at least it is a responsible dog owner, paying for the vet bills. But the poor dogs being PTS.

Pit Bull attack in Calgary

I shouldn't have commented on it earlier. I jinxed the poor dogs. :sad:
I wish they would put peticulars of what happned. Like WHY did they go after the lab? I think people are running scared. Look at the ages of both dogs and nothing previous. She is paying for the vet bill as a responsible owner, but I really wonder, why put them down? I guess you have to be there and know the whole story to know, but I think owners are just plain SCARED!!!

[love my dogs]

I'm not sure how responsible she is.....she did have 2 at large fines, and a fine for one of the dogs causing damage (to what it didn't say)....and those were prior to the lab altercation!

[Conners]

Originally Posted by love my dogs

I'm not sure how responsible she is.....she did have 2 at large fines, and a fine for one of the dogs causing damage (to what it didn't say)....and those were prior to the lab altercation!

Yes but look at how young her kids are. I know when my youngest grandson 2 1/2 comes over, he has opened the patio door and off went Shasta.
Before all this, I used to take Shasta out every nite around 9 PM and I would throw a stick or toy and we would have fun for an hour to an hour and a half, depending on my health.
She never left the property to the driveways and parking area even if people and dogs, etc were walking by. But as new tenants moved in, some afraid of dogs, that playtime needed to stop.
Once it stopped and Julian opened the door, she broke rules by even going on the driveway. Naturally I got her back and sent her to her corner.
What I'm getting at, no matter how responsible you are,insidence happen.
It doesn't say what the other fine was for. Did it poop on someones property or dig up a plant? That's the part we don't know. I guess we never will. :sad:

[morgiesmommy]

Originally Posted by Georgiapeaches

It's in the Londoner today. The potential candidates are, Gord Hume, Tom Gosnell, Gordon mackenzie(former banker), Dianne Cunningham & Anne marie DeCicco.

The meeting is this coming Monday for the proposed pitbull bylaw (September 26th) not sure what time it is on the agenda...will find out.

There is a letter in the Londoner today, "License for Parents?"
In one paragraph it states, "Funny isn't it, anyone at all can be a parent but only the determined and somewhat wealthy can be a dog owner in London."

another sentence from the letter,
..."I'm a fairly intelligent person with great reasoning skills, multi-tasking capabilities and the tenacity and loyalty of a recently banned breed of dog (no, bitches have not been banned, only specific breeds of 'em!)."

I think Lezzer should throw her hat in the ring!!

[lezzpezz]

That's a very funny idea MorgiesMom! Hahahahaha! There is no way on this planet that you would get me to become a councillor....I'll stick to animal lover and activist! Thank you very much! I am flattered that you think I could do it, however!!

[Me and Kayla]

Originally Posted by gdamadg

I hate to add this. But at least it is a responsible dog owner, paying for the vet bills. But the poor dogs being PTS.

Pit Bull attack in Calgary

This is totally ridiculous. The lab's injuries amounted to $111.00! I can rack that up at the vet with just a check-up and some blood work. I mean, at least 1/2 of that would be accounted for by just walking through the door of the vet. So in fact, the actual injuries amounted to about $55.00 worth???? Doesn't sound like much of a vicious attack to me.

Kayla's done more injury to herself by just tearing through the house and sliding on the hardwood.

Something fishy about this......

Me and Kayla

[Georgiapeaches]

Originally Posted by lezzerpezzer

That's a very funny idea MorgiesMom! Hahahahaha! There is no way on this planet that you would get me to become a councillor....I'll stick to animal lover and activist! Thank you very much! I am flattered that you think I could do it, however!!

I agree with morgiesmom. I think you would be a great candidate

[lezzpezz]

that is very sweet GeorgiaP and thanks for your "vote" of confidence! BUT, I'd rather turn my energies toward animal issues and not get all clouded with the other muck-a-muck that goes on at City Hall. I'd have to become one of "them" DA Da da da!!!!! My focus would have to be on all sorts of issues that are outta my league, whereas if I stick with pets, I feel strength and knowledge for what I am doing