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  #91  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:01 PM
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Ah, it's in the new "Grain-free" section-only Barking At The Moon is listed there:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free
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  #92  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:03 PM
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prin, this sounds like a nasty divorce case between you and SG

i'm so sorry this crap had to happen. you were their strongest advocate & cheerleader for so long, look how many clients they gained because of you, and now this BS sneakyness... it's like a kick in the seat of the pants. grrrrr.
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  #93  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:05 PM
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Yeah, fishy fishy fishy. My bf was listening and when I hung up, he said "She just wanted to know how much you already knew before answering."
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  #94  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Huh. That smacks of CSR's being told not to voluteer any info. Sneaky. "Not enough to call it a formula change". Riiiiiggghhhttttt.
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  #95  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:09 PM
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yep, your man hit the nail on the head. If there's nothing wrong with their ingredients change, why the fear of owning up to it and advertising a full disclosure?
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  #96  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:09 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Exactly- and why go straight for the "salmon"? Because that reassures me? I won't look at the rest because they're "adding salmon".
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  #97  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
Yeah, fishy fishy fishy.
It's even lower than fishy. It's fishy oil!
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  #98  
Old September 18th, 2006, 12:14 PM
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lol lol good one.
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  #99  
Old September 18th, 2006, 04:36 PM
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That phone call is pretty whacked. Wow. I was teed before. Now I just feel dirty that I bought a 33 pound bag of it even in the old formula. Damn.
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  #100  
Old September 18th, 2006, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Now I just feel dirty that I bought a 33 pound bag of it even in the old formula. Damn
LOL! somebody should put together a tally of all these comments and mail it to SG headquarters
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  #101  
Old September 18th, 2006, 06:56 PM
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I wonder if they will lose much business overall? I'm going to spread the word as much as I can.
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  #102  
Old September 18th, 2006, 06:57 PM
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Me too. It's just unacceptable to cheapen ingredients and maintain the same price.
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  #103  
Old September 19th, 2006, 09:54 PM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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Is this the case for the wolf cub as well, I had jsut got my short list kinda nailed down and now it seems it just got shorter. I was going to use wolf cub for the next 4 months and switch around between DVP, Merricks, Canidae, Innova, California Natural, Natures Variety and Wellness (as they are all available locally). My Only addition was WK but I don't like the idea that they have already changed the formula once without ANY warning. Canadie seems to be the best Value For Money, so I'm guessing that I will be swaying towards that one. So for we tried Nutro Ultra and now were wofking through a bag of Nutram, not great but not the worst, Wolf Cub is on order to try and I have a a sample bag but it's the old formula as will probably be the first few bags and then it will just be another dog fod, We have no allergies that I'm aware of but the thought of him depositing small stools simply thrills me.
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  #104  
Old September 19th, 2006, 10:18 PM
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I think all of the formulas have changed.

Don't ask me where I saw this - some website I was reading said that when manufacturers change their formulas they have a certain amout of time before they have to change the bags so could we possibly be feeding the new formula in the old bags???

Wolfcub:

Bison, Salmon Meal, Cracked Pearled Barley, Millet, Brown Rice, Rice Bran, Tomato Pomace, Canola Oil, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Salmon Oil, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Dried Chicory Root, Parsley Flakes, Pumpkin Meal, Almond Oil, Sesame Oil, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Thyme, Blueberries, Cranberries, Carrots, Broccoli, Vitamins and Minerals.
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  #105  
Old September 19th, 2006, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda
Don't ask me where I saw this - some website I was reading said that when manufacturers change their formulas they have a certain amout of time before they have to change the bags so could we possibly be feeding the new formula in the old bags???

Yes, you could. By law, the companies have six months to use up their supply of old bags. :sad:
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  #106  
Old September 20th, 2006, 06:45 AM
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Solid Gold

Quote:
Originally Posted by x.l.r.8
Is this the case for the wolf cub as well, I had jsut got my short list kinda nailed down and now it seems it just got shorter. I was going to use wolf cub for the next 4 months and switch around between DVP, Merricks, Canidae, Innova, California Natural, Natures Variety and Wellness (as they are all available locally). My Only addition was WK but I don't like the idea that they have already changed the formula once without ANY warning. Canadie seems to be the best Value For Money, so I'm guessing that I will be swaying towards that one. So for we tried Nutro Ultra and now were wofking through a bag of Nutram, not great but not the worst, Wolf Cub is on order to try and I have a a sample bag but it's the old formula as will probably be the first few bags and then it will just be another dog fod, We have no allergies that I'm aware of but the thought of him depositing small stools simply thrills me.
Yes I believe the WK is also being changed according to the other post. I would be very careful changing kibbles as you are planning to do. You may turn your dog into a picky eater.
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  #107  
Old September 20th, 2006, 09:20 AM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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I was thinking that but then come across this, the passage holds true for my cats who used to be fussy eaters when they were on the same food for 4 years, now we change regularly and they eat what ever we put down, my doggy waste disposal will soon let me know what he won't eat and if it ends up he only likes one particular brand then so be it. I mean any one of them is better than the Iams he was on. Also if you feed the same stuff all the time how would you know if there picky eaters?
Unfortunatly or fortunatly we have had 17 years to know what the cats like and what we avoided, however moving to Canada shut down our usual brands and we had access to and we had to start looking again. We were going to go to holistic blend and to bring the post back on topic I found this site, found that there were a good few brands available and although I was leaning towards Canidae it was an opinion that SG was tollerated a bit more by most dogs, so I thought I'd give that ago, now I'm realising the difference between one good quality food and another is about what the dog likes, not what I want. So I thought I'd have a bit of a rotation and let Riley tell me what he wants. I want to be the one who decides what foods are being offerend rather then a company deciding to cheapen it's line up because is has a grear reputation, it seems SG is 'just another good dog food company' now rather than a great one. There are plenty more to choose from (for us non allergy sufferers, sorry Prin, I truely feel sorry for you having to scour every ingredient label, I'm alergic to any nut oil and I used to spend hours doing my shopping reading every additive there is) so I can just change my preferance brand as easily and they can change there ingredients. Sorry to rant on but it's all your fault for making me read more into what were feeding our loved ones, my wife started to moan about my obsession and so i fed her spam fritters and egg noodles for the past 3 days, she gets it now.
Ok i'm done, thanks for listening.
Adie

"Change your dog’s food

Once you have selected a good quality dog food, that’s all you need to feed, right? Not really. You should vary your dog’s food periodically. There are many good reasons for this:

_ Dogs (actually all mammals) are designed to consume a range of different foods, and to obtain differing vitamins and minerals from each. They are not designed to eat “only chicken” or “only lamb” or any other food item for eternity. Changing foods, importantly the contents of those foods, every so often helps to give them the variety their bodies were designed to thrive on.

_ There is no one dog food in existence that “has it all”. And remember, the feeding trials that foods go through only last for six months (and not all foods are even trialled). Changing foods periodically helps to ensure that no dietary deficiencies or excesses build up over time.

_ Variety is the spice of life. Who wants to eat the same food day in and day out? Could you do it? For months or years? Feeding your dog something different helps to ensure that he does not become bored and frustrated with his food. This will not make your dog picky - we are talking about periodic changes here, not serving up something different or adding goodies to tempt him every time he doesn’t like his dinner.
And most importantly of all:

_ It helps to avoid the development of allergies. In a few extreme cases, you (or your dog) may be instantly and violently allergic to something. But that is a few extreme cases only - the vast majority of allergies are things that build up over time and with constant exposure. The surest way to develop an allergy to chicken, for example, is to consume it daily for an extended period. It is no coincidence that the most common allergens are things that have commonly been used in dog foods for many years. The (modern) advice given by nutritionists is that feeding a wide variety of different foods, preferably from a young age, can help to avoid the development of allergies in the first place (that's the advice given for humans too).

Common signs of allergies are itchy skin, red itchy paws, chewing paws, yeast infections, ear infections, and skin infections that may respond to antibiotics but reappear as soon as the antibiotics are discontinued.

That all adds up to changing the food you feed every once in a while. That means changing to a food with different main ingredients. There is very little benefit to switching from one chicken/rice food to another, for example. If you have been feeding a food with chicken as the main ingredient, then it is far better that the next food is based on lamb, or turkey, or fish, or beef, etc and that the other main ingredients are also varied.

Do I have to change brands every time I change food?

No, not necessarily. Look at the ingredients in the different formulas made by your brand. What is different? If it is only the main meat ingredient, then you should change to a different brand when you change foods. If many of the ingredients, including the main meat, are different then there is no need to change brands if you don’t want to. The point here is to ensure that your dog gets a good variety of different food items in his diet. Not brand loyalty.

How often should I rotate foods?

Minimally, at least every three months. But you can change more frequently than that. If your dog does not suffer from digestive upsets when his food is changed, then you might even consider changing foods every time the bag runs out.

How many different foods do I need? Can I use a food again?

At least three or four different foods (different main meat source and different main ingredients). More is better. You can certainly reuse a good food though, especially if your dog does particularly well on it. You could choose, for example, to feed food A for one bag then change to food B – go back to food A, then to food C and so on. This satisfies the criteria of avoiding constant or prolonged exposure to a particular set of ingredients.

What about just mixing foods together?

Mixing foods together can certainly help to ensure nutritional adequacy for the long term. But it does nothing to provide your dog with variety (something different to eat!) and it does not satisfy the criteria of avoiding constant or prolonged exposure to a particular set of ingredients. So this practice will do nothing to help avoid the development of food allergies – it just means that there are a greater number of things the dog is being exposed to on a constant basis. It also means that there is a wider range of possible culprits should a food allergy develop. You can mix foods if you choose, but you should vary the foods that you mix together, just as if you were feeding a single food.

Do I need to change the food gradually?

It is usually wise to effect a change gradually. Not every dog is sensitive to food changes, and many will handle cold turkey changes without issue. But many won’t, and the upset tummies and loose stools that can come with changing foods too fast are such an annoyance (for the dog too!) that it makes sense just to change gradually, unless you know for certain that your dog has the sort of cast iron stomach that won’t be upset by a sudden change.

The simplest way to change foods is to blend the old and new foods together for a week or so. Start with a mix that is 25% new food and 75% old. Feed that for two or three days, and if there are no upset tummies or loose stools, increase the blend to a 50/50 mix. Again, feed that for a couple of days, then increase to a 75/25 blend, and finally to 100% new food. If at any stage there is a tummy upset or the dog’s stools become loose, then hold off on increasing the amount of new food in the blend until that problem resolves. If there are no problems at all, it will take a week to ten days to accomplish the switch.

Won’t changing foods make my dog picky?

No, it won’t. It’s more likely to have the opposite effect, and keep the dog interested in his food. How long could you stay interested in eating exactly the same thing? A food change once a month, or every two or three months is not going to give you a picky dog. What creates pickiness is serving up something different any time the dog shows no interest in his meal. Just like little kids, a dog will learn very quickly that refusing to eat a meal results in Mom producing something better – if you constantly produce something better. Instead, you should give the dog his food at set meal times, and pick it up if it is not eaten within about 20 minutes. Don’t offer anything else (i.e. don’t fill him up on treats) until the next meal time.

Are there any other benefits to changing foods?

YES! Changing foods every so often means that you keep yourself aware of what is available. Dog food is not a static science and it is very pleasing to be able to note that constant improvements are being made. Foods that may have once been amongst the best available are constantly being surpassed (this is a good thing! Dog food has not historically been a high quality product).

We’ve all met people who swear “brand x” is the best you can get – and have been feeding it for the last 15 years, completely unaware of advances that have been made. Well, that may have been true 15 years ago, but now “brand x” may be one of the lower quality foods available (though it’s unlikely to be reflected in cost).

We fully expect the foods we currently recommend here to be surpassed or improved in the coming years. This is good news for you and your dog. Don’t fall into the trap of assuming that what is the best available now will always be the best you can get. It won’t be (or at least, we sincerely hope that it won’t be)."
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  #108  
Old September 20th, 2006, 02:27 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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ok, IMO the WK in the bags we're buying now has already changed (even if the bags haven't). Boo has diarrhea and Jemma has gas. The food also went from smelling slightly fishy to smelling like barn.

I really need a new food asap.
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  #109  
Old September 20th, 2006, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
IMO the WK in the bags we're buying now has already changed (even if the bags haven't). Boo has diarrhea and Jemma has gas.
oh please say it ain't so!! WTF, how can this even be legal?? what if your dog had a fatal allergy to an ingredient, and they started adding it without changing the ingredients list - could you sue the company??

how about you return the bag and get your money back! even if it's half empty... hopefully you're onto another food soon
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  #110  
Old September 20th, 2006, 03:03 PM
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Woofers doesn't know the formula is changing (they didn't really believe me). So I doubt they would take it back for that..
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  #111  
Old September 20th, 2006, 04:14 PM
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I gotta tell ya, I only bought one small and then one large bag and I never really noticed that it had any type of smell similar to fish - I really thought it smelled - like you said Prin - like barn!

But, because it was highly recommended, I thought I would see how my dogs did with it. I guess I probably had the new formula all along and never experienced the old????
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  #112  
Old September 20th, 2006, 05:28 PM
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Yeah, the barn is new... It didn't smell like that before.
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  #113  
Old September 20th, 2006, 05:59 PM
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My bag smells like FISH, the dogs breath smells like fish, EVERYTHING smells like fish I guess i still have the "old" stuff
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  #114  
Old September 20th, 2006, 06:03 PM
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reply from Solid Gold

I got an email back from SG, this is what i was told.

Thank you for your email. The natural flavor in the WolfKing is spray dried liver – bison liver in this case. We did not add any grains to the formula. The new formula actually contains one less grain as we removed amaranth from the formula.

Tomato pomace is an excellent source of the super antioxidant lycopene. Here is some information on lycopene:

http://www.lycopene.org/

Tomato pomace is also as excellent source of soluble fiber.

Based upon recent research, we have also added other healthy ingredients such as salmon oil and taurine.

Best regards,

Solid Gold
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  #115  
Old September 20th, 2006, 06:11 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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I got the same thing...
So I emailed back...

Me: Yes, but haven't you also added more oats?

SG: The millet and barley were reduced and the oatmeal was increased, so the overall amount of grain in the food is the same, even though the amount of the individual grains has changed.


Me: So if the grains decreased, why the need for a stool hardener (i.e. slow fiber) like tomato pomace?

SG: We have to keep the same amount of fiber in the food so that it continues to meet AAFCO specifications. In this case, however, the tomato pomace was added as a source of anitoxidents and it has the benefit of being a source of fiber as well so we were able to address two separate issues with one ingredient.

Me: But the quantity of grains didn't change, so why is there a need for more fiber?

Waiting...

Meanwhile, Jemma's gas is getting worse...
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  #116  
Old September 20th, 2006, 06:21 PM
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Prin and I talked about this this morning. My dog smells like barn. Her fur, her breath, everything. Yesterday she forgo-ed pooping for 20 hours.. Was meal 2 and 3 of the new crap.. When she did poop. It was liek a bullet with severe straining and crying.. and it smelled like rotten sewage......

Today, we pooped liquid. Which I tried to clean up and it smelled like sewage.

I'm with Prin. Don't buy a new SG bag of anything it looks like it is 'new' and I'm not happy.

My store knew nothing on the switch so they won't be taking back 32 pounds of kibble either.

Now? Cider just puked white stuff all over herself, and I don't really think she's ill.
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  #117  
Old September 20th, 2006, 06:25 PM
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They really just dont care about the dogs who depended on their food.
Really upsets me.
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  #118  
Old September 20th, 2006, 06:27 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Me too. Just disgusting and unethical.

Boo has had the splats, but no puking yet. If he does and needs another belly injection, I'm sending them the bill.
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  #119  
Old September 20th, 2006, 07:30 PM
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MERI MERI is offline
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On no!

about week ago I bought a new bag of WK and I noticed Bilbo vomited in the morning as if he was on his old crapy food
It's do frustrating! What do we buy now?

I will follow this topic!
Prin - all my hopes with you - you will find out what to do
Please, let us know

Last edited by MERI; September 20th, 2006 at 07:32 PM.
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  #120  
Old September 20th, 2006, 07:33 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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check out this thread:
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30712

I'm trying to figure out something else for Boo... I don't want them eating it even tomorrow. NO MORE!
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