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Old June 20th, 2011, 02:29 PM
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not so good vet visit with Zoe

Poor Zoe, my little sausage.
I took her to the vet today because she got up this morning and could not walk on her front legs. She was at the beach yesterday, running,swimming, fetching sticks, hunting frogs........all the good stuff she has gotten to know at the "fun" beach. I have been working on her not getting along with other dogs, and we are having a very good, very positive response to this.
But that was put to an end today. Vet said she is 25-35 lbs overweight and her front joints are arthritic (sp?), she is a mix of Chow/Elkhound, and she weighed in at 78.2 lbs today. Up eighteen pounds from 2 years ago. She prescribed a strict diet of Medi-Cal Calorie Control food ( I asked about the Chicken meal, corn , and corn glueten being the first three ingrediants, and was told that Vets made this food and they should know what is good for a dog by the vet tech) She is on a big dose of Metacam, and I was given Glucosamine/Chondritin liquid also. Plus poor Zoe has allergies, her anus and ears are swollen (not too bad) and her eyes are gooky, so i have to spray DOUXO Calm Gell once a day on both ears and anus.
We are allowed NO strenuous excersice, but the vet wants her to swim twice a week, and casual walks twice a day. I told her Zoe goes walking every single day I have had her, so now I have to break the long walks up into little walks around the block.
She is allowed nothing but the new food, Vet said by the third day I should be feeding 75% of the Medi-cal. In a month, I am to take her for a weigh in and her meds will be adjusted, the Metacam may be weened totally off.

Now here is my problem. Zoe loves her Dog Chow......please no rants, I have been trying for 6 years to get her off that crap. I started feeding her semi-raw, she gets chicken, turkey and sometimes beef semi-cooked because I don't like what she wants to eat for dog food. She has been doing well , then the ex feeds her snacks all night long on the weekends he has her. I have gone up and down about NO SNACKS with him. He doesnt' listen, they snack on ice cream, potato chips, canned beans,cookies and the list goes on. Today I told the vet to give him the message straight up.....yes you love the dog......you are killing her. I made him be there, I made him pay the bill.
So now he is asking, well she can have tuna or chicken....maybe a bit of ground beef, they vet said she could have beans, what else can I feed her? I lost it, I am not happy about the food, or the meds......and I am beyond ticked off about her weight and not being able to walk.
I really needed to rant.........wow.......but I am still so mad
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Old June 20th, 2011, 08:25 PM
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I think I'd be inclined to stick with what she's on now and just cut down the portions--and get the ex retrained... Really, I think the semi-raw is better for her than the prescribed food (regardless of what the tech thinks ) and portion control will work just as well as any low-cal formula. We adjust portions all the time here--if one of ours is getting heavy, we cut back some; if they're feeling a tad boney, we add some. Normally we adjust by small amounts...and maybe just by eliminating the snacks Zoe gets from the ex, the weight issue will go away If the snacks aren't enough, then cut back on her portion by a quarter cup to start, let her get used to that and cut the amount again if necessary.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 09:12 PM
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And I'd say the opposite, that if you want to get the weight down fast-ish( LOL), then use what the vet advises. I put my two fat little sheltie girls onto Hills Science Diet RD(Reducing diet?) and it was amazing how quickly they slimmed down. Much more playful and energetic and that diet must taste good, as all my other dogs wanted their food. Point is that once you get them down to a weight that is better for their arthritic joints, then you can go back to your normal diet, but feeding less of everything. I'm having to switch diets a bit because my 13 year old, who goes down on her hocks when standing, needs to be as light as possible so she at least keeps up on her feet when walking. I will admit I still give her some chicken, but other than that just the canned and dry RD diet. It boils down to how long do you want your dog to live?
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Old June 20th, 2011, 09:40 PM
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Well I have to say the Metacam worked fast. She could walk with no limp to go out and down the block for a potty walk. And she ran up the stairs.......I keep telling her to be easy. Yes I would like the weight to come off, I don't want it to fall off her, that isn't really healthy either. She is a picky eater to begin with, for 6 years I have kept her at a stable weight. She has anal gland issues from an old attack that damaged one of them, this food change, and meds is just going to flare that up possibly.
Maybe I am wrong, but filling her full of corn and getting her to poop and poop and poop, isn't that like taking a duretic to lose a quick 5 pounds so you can fit into your jeans for the weekend kind of thing?
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Old June 20th, 2011, 09:52 PM
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I think I would be inclined to agree with Hazel on managing what she is currently on. The reason also is because if she has been known to have anal gland issues at the very least keeping her on the food she is used to is far better IMO. Maybe have a quick discussion about that with the vet.

Metacam works very quickly. Its a pretty heavy duty drug too. Did your vet mention that you need to check liver levels every 6 mo or so while on metacam?

If Zoe likes any type of veggie like carrots or something maybe you could suggest that to your ex!

Good Luck and give your gal a gentle hug for me!
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Old June 20th, 2011, 10:35 PM
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Aww poor Zoe gal!! I'm with you and not wanting her to lose weight quickly. I'd think she would tend to put it back on pretty quickly that way.
Maybe PM Merlin's Hope and see if she could recommend a raw diet for Zoe. That is if you are being successful on feeding her that. I don't think she's on often any more but you may be lucky.
Good luck with her mf.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 10:37 PM
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I have the same weight problem with one of mine, no problems with arthritic joints yet but I don't really want her to go thought it either. We been working on her weight for a while.

I switched food about 2 weeks ago went from Pedigree to Blue Buffalo, yes big jump in price, but I can see she is loosing weight already.

She gets 2 cups of kibbles a day and I add about a half a can of salt free green beans as a filler. I will take her in at the end of the month to get a new weight on her

She weight in at 105 pounds , for a golden that's a lot..good luck and
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Old June 20th, 2011, 10:42 PM
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yeah, the vet said that she just wants her on it for a little while. Just to get the inflamation down. Hopefully I can get some weight off her and help that way. she said the gloucosamine is a life long thing now, metacam will be weened off and hopefully she won't need any pain meds after she slims down.
I want the ex to get on track, I would hate to tell him no more weekends with her. She loves him, he is the fun guy, lots of adventures with him. But the food has to stop. Of course he doesnt see what I have to do all week with her. One and a half days with him, all fun fun fun.
The vet said nothing but the food. Said veggies have too much sugar in them, like peas and carrots. If I really had to give her a treat, it was to be celery. Only veggies Zoe eats is red pepper, and her new favorite, broccoli. Vet said NO.
And I don't like mixing this food with the Dog Chow, Zoe barely eats it to begin with, but she will have a nibble or two once in awhile. Two snout-fuls......that is all every three four days.
I put that new food in, now I can't keep the cats out of her bowl. All three of them eating that medi-cal food
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Old June 20th, 2011, 10:50 PM
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How much of the Dog Chow does she get a day, how many cups??
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Old June 20th, 2011, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogcatharmony View Post
The vet said nothing but the food. Said veggies have too much sugar in them, like peas and carrots. If I really had to give her a treat, it was to be celery. Only veggies Zoe eats is red pepper, and her new favorite, broccoli. Vet said NO.
Hmmmm....the corn in the food is starchy, which breaks down into two glucose (sugar) molecules for each molecule of starch...but the vet thinks red pepper and brocolli are too sugary? *sigh*

On a slightly different note, Zoe will eat red peppers? Holy catz! Our dogs won't touch peppers. She's a very brave girl
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Old June 20th, 2011, 11:09 PM
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zoe doesnt' eat cups of dog chow. She has a few bites. She has been that way since i got her. If she does eat it, maybe 1/4 cup, and that is maybe once a week. she likes her protein, chicken, turkey. Usually refuses everything else.
LOL HRP......zoe loves red pepper, goes bonkers when you are cutting it up. but she won't eat yellow or orange......just the red.
I have tried other foods, the only one she liked was Orijen fish (think it was a 4 fish combo)......and that did not agree with her. Never seen the poops like that before.......and gas........ewwww.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 11:50 PM
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I'm sorry to hear Zoe is not well, dch. I, too, would stick to the raw and semi raw (don't forget 10-15% soft bones both for the calcium and the anal gland issues). It's digested easily and metabolized quickly. The trick is to feed the appropriate amount for her ideal weight. It should be about 2% to start. Eg., if her weight should be 65lbs, she should eat a total of 1.3lbs.

If she likes fish, you can occasionally feed her light home-cooked meals consisting of baked white fish (we use Atlantic Cod), sweet & white potatoes, green beans, and zucchini.

Have you ever considered Cartrophen injections? It's inexpensive and worked wonders for Toby and there are other members on this site who've had good experiences with it as well.

http://www.arthritis.au.com/DMOAD.2006.FINAL.pdf

Wishing Zoe a speedy recovery .
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Old June 21st, 2011, 12:25 AM
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Has your vet ever suggested a thyroid panel, with the amount she eats she should be a skinny baby
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Old June 21st, 2011, 01:31 AM
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Seeing as though she is on metacam do her a favor and pick up some milk thistle and start giving her that, also raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar has helped any arthritic dogs I have had more so than any of the glucosamine/ condroitin or msm that I have tried, also really good for liver repair as well.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 02:16 AM
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dch...I'm so sorry about Zoe.

If Tegan starts getting a little heavy then we cut back her food, just a bit. She also eats Dog chow.

I'm also surprised, like hazel, that the vet wants her to eat carbs but says veggies are more fattening. Not that I know much about dog nutrition but for humans veggies have less calories than carbs. And if I remember vets don't usually get a great deal of training on nutrients for pets.

When willie, cat, was younger he was overweight and was feed Purina dry. When I joined here and got the other 2 kitties I started feeding him canned food and he lost weight. Now I know there is a difference between cats and dogs, but could u try Zoe on canned food it might have less calories.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 09:20 AM
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Try Charlie Bear treats for dogs, only three calories each. Get the ex to stop the fattening snacks.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 09:54 AM
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thankyou all for the helpful replies.
i think I am just going to continue feeding what I do, but cut back. She has to have food in her belly for the Metacam, if she doesn't eat, I can't give it to her. The gloucosamine supplement they gave me is 20 cal per ml, and I am to give her 9ml (it is cherry flavoured.......whoopy, she won't touch it).
The vet said in one month she is to go in for a weigh in. She said it will probably be 5-6 months for the weight to come off, but if no weigh comes off then a thyroid check and blood work will be done. We just had blood work done last September, but I know sometimes checking thyroid is a tricky thing.
And it makes me giggle, she did an oral exam and says Zoe's teeth are amazing for a 7 year old dog. No tartar build up, still white......yummy bones.
I also told the ex this morning that if he can not follow the rules, he can still visit Zoe but I will home and he can take both of us to the beach, or the park so that there is no stopping for treats like ice cream on the way. I am serious about this. It's not a joke, the weight has to come off.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 11:58 AM
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Awwww, poor Zoe


Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Aww poor Zoe gal!! I'm with you and not wanting her to lose weight quickly. I'd think she would tend to put it back on pretty quickly that way.
Maybe PM Merlin's Hope and see if she could recommend a raw diet for Zoe. That is if you are being successful on feeding her that. I don't think she's on often any more but you may be lucky.
Good luck with her mf.
I think you should think about 14+'s advice. merlin's hope has done absolute wonders with her rescues that have been in such bad shape.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 01:42 PM
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okay, i will give it a try.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 06:40 PM
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so I found a food Zoe will semi-tolerate, Canidae Platinum (for senior or overweight dogs). I have to hand feed her, and keep giving her the same spitty kibble over and over again. It takes a long time, but I at least get something in her belly. She has diarreha bad, what a change all this is to her system, and I really don't like it. New food, meds.
Had an arguement with the ex, he was saying "oh great, now I can't eat anything, I will have to starve" okay well then she stays home this weekend, if he wants to take her to the beach on Sunday, she can go, and then she can come home again. It's pretty simple to grasp, and he doesn't get it. So time to be a
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 06:47 PM
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whoops, cat hit enter......LOL...Dexter wants to type.
I called the vet to ask about when I worry about the diarreha, it was her day off and no one there could give me an answer. I am just keeping lots and lots of water out all over the house. She is peeing lots too.
Dang i forgot what else i wanted to say
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:42 PM
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Do you have any probiotic handy? Even plain yogurt will help--a couple tablespoons on her food might even make it more yummy.

A little bit of pure pumpkin added to her food might help, as well.

Drinking lots of water is good if she has diarrhea, even if it does make her pee lots.
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