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  #61  
Old February 7th, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassiek View Post
Aslan, I agree that if pet stores only sold puppies/kittens by working with shelters, humane societies etc. it would help tremendously with the pet-overpopulation problem. We have a few petstores here we work with, and the animals get adopted out very quickly because of all the exposure they get in a petstore! I think petstores have an incredible opportunity, because they can provide so much exposure to many of the public, to help with this situation. Unfortunately, when all you care about is $$$, this route doesn't seem so favorable. Given the choice between helping some local rescues or making thousands on labradoodles, bugs, maltipoos, and whatever the heck else they are called, the greedy *******s go for the latter.
I know it is that almighty evil $$. The shelter I volunteer for adopts out more cats through the pet food store that helps them out then their own shelter


I've had the unfortunate experience to know a few people who have sold kittens/puppies to pet stores. While they are not puppy mills, they are nothing more than BYB's who know nothing about having a litter.

L4H, did you find anything in your searches as to how they enforce such regulations in Switzerland? I'd be curious to learn how they have the manpower to regulate such laws.

It would be great to see some stricter laws here. In any area I've lived in Canada, there is basically nothing that the law will do for dogs/cats that are in dire need - as long as they have the very bare essentials (which basically includes nothing), they won't even bother.
No I didn't find out anything else on Switzerland.

Here is an interesting website for bedtime reading:

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusicacl.htm
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  #62  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:04 PM
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Here is a website from Switzerland's Vet Organization

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/tier...x.html?lang=en

The principle of the law is that pain, damage or suffering must not be unjustifiably inflicted on an animal, nor must any animal be subjected to severe anxiety. The neglect, overexertion or mishandling of animals is forbidden.

Note that even causing anxiety is considered cruel. We all know keeping dogs/cats in cages to breed and breed and breed again until their bodies give out does to these poor animals.
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  #63  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
I was looking for further research on the internet and the big difference between North America's laws and European's laws is due to the NA considers animals as "property" and not "living beings". In Wikipedia it claims that Switzerland has the strictest cruelty laws which includes that minimum amount of exercise time a dog can be given. Now wouldn't that be something if the millers had to provide walks to all their dogs otherwise face cruelty charges.
Is it not Switzerland also that will only adopt out cats/kittens by the twos? They won't allow single adoptions? I know one of the European countries do that.
IMO - diss it if you will - and I have mentioned it before in another thread - TV ads, radio ads, newspaper ads, billboards - a blitz. You can walk away from pictures on TV but you still have the narrative. You can turn the station. You can flip the page on the newspaper quickly. Etc, etc. But you know what - eventually a part of it sticks. Eventually it sticks enough to make you curious about what all the hoopla is about. Eventually you know the ads by heart. Eventually the pictures start to hit your heart. Eventually you can't say "I didn't know." You did. It's there in the back of your mind all the time. Hopefully when it comes time for you to pick a family pet or add another you will think twice before going the byb, miller, broker, pet store route. You will actively search out a rescue, a shelter.
We all know that commercial that plays during the holidays - So this is Christmas. How many of us can't sing along? Not many I'd venture. Why could a total blitz not work the same way?
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  #64  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:13 PM
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you're absolutely right 14+,,,the spca ad with sarah mcclaughlin singing comes to mind as soon as i hear that song now i see that poor little kitten.. Now it's a matter of getting the media to put in the effort.
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  #65  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassiek View Post
L4H, did you find anything in your searches as to how they enforce such regulations in Switzerland? I'd be curious to learn how they have the manpower to regulate such laws.
Cassie - Why would it take more manpower? I would think we could use the same manpower we have already got. We just get them on a different wavelength. I'm not talking the ones in the trenches. They already do everything they can. Some of them a lot more. I'm talking the ones at the top who need to find their hearts again. They are the ones who need their mindsets changed. They need to stop caring about the bucks they're pulling in and start caring about the animals they are supposed to be protecting. JMO of course.
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  #66  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by aslan View Post
you're absolutely right 14+,,,the spca ad with sarah mcclaughlin singing comes to mind as soon as i hear that song now i see that poor little kitten.. Now it's a matter of getting the media to put in the effort.
Ok - who do we know who has some TV clout?
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  #67  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Is it not Switzerland also that will only adopt out cats/kittens by the twos? They won't allow single adoptions? I know one of the European countries do that.
Here is a report on it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3818457.ece

The gov't needs to change the laws to outlaw millers and to specifically give living standards to animals, then provide the funding so the law can be enforced.
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  #68  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Here is a report on it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3818457.ece

The gov't needs to change the laws to outlaw millers and to specifically give living standards to animals, then provide the funding so the law can be enforced.
It seems that they have lots of problems too.
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  #69  
Old February 7th, 2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
No I didn't find out anything else on Switzerland.

Here is an interesting website for bedtime reading:

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusicacl.htm
Thanks, L4H, I will take a look at this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Is it not Switzerland also that will only adopt out cats/kittens by the twos? They won't allow single adoptions? I know one of the European countries do that.
IMO - diss it if you will - and I have mentioned it before in another thread - TV ads, radio ads, newspaper ads, billboards - a blitz. You can walk away from pictures on TV but you still have the narrative. You can turn the station. You can flip the page on the newspaper quickly. Etc, etc. But you know what - eventually a part of it sticks. Eventually it sticks enough to make you curious about what all the hoopla is about. Eventually you know the ads by heart. Eventually the pictures start to hit your heart. Eventually you can't say "I didn't know." You did. It's there in the back of your mind all the time. Hopefully when it comes time for you to pick a family pet or add another you will think twice before going the byb, miller, broker, pet store route. You will actively search out a rescue, a shelter.
We all know that commercial that plays during the holidays - So this is Christmas. How many of us can't sing along? Not many I'd venture. Why could a total blitz not work the same way?
I agree 100% 14+, we need to keep hitting the point home hard. Eventually something, somewhere along the line has to get the message across.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Cassie - Why would it take more manpower? I would think we could use the same manpower we have already got. We just get them on a different wavelength. I'm not talking the ones in the trenches. They already do everything they can. Some of them a lot more. I'm talking the ones at the top who need to find their hearts again. They are the ones who need their mindsets changed. They need to stop caring about the bucks they're pulling in and start caring about the animals they are supposed to be protecting. JMO of course.
14+, I think if they are having strict regulations to the point where you must provide your dog with a minimal amount of exercise everyday, I am curious where they find the manpower to enforce such regulations. I'm all for them, I just think that even right now with the lax laws we have in regards to animal care, those that are working to enforce even such basic animal care laws can't keep up at least that is the scenario here in AB.
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  #70  
Old February 7th, 2011, 02:23 PM
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14+, I think if they are having strict regulations to the point where you must provide your dog with a minimal amount of exercise everyday, I am curious where they find the manpower to enforce such regulations. I'm all for them, I just think that even right now with the lax laws we have in regards to animal care, those that are working to enforce even such basic animal care laws can't keep up at least that is the scenario here in AB.
Laws will also help generate what is socially acceptable. Look at how far banning smoking in public places. Just 30 years ago, it was socially acceptable to smoke at work, now you can barely smoke outside.
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  #71  
Old February 7th, 2011, 02:54 PM
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Laws will also help generate what is socially acceptable. Look at how far banning smoking in public places. Just 30 years ago, it was socially acceptable to smoke at work, now you can barely smoke outside.
Very true. Up until about 15 years ago, the mall in the city I grew up in still had a 'smoker's section' (that was not closed off or anything). Within the last 5 years or so here, they also stopped allowing smoking in the bars. Now, if someone were to light up in the bar, they would get alot of nasty looks just before being kicked out.

It will be interesting to see some of Europe's ideas and regulations on animal care guidelines come over here, and I think overall it will have a positive influence, especially as it pertains to livestock. I know in AB, we are already starting to feel pressure in the broiler (meat) chicken industry and the marketing board has set new guidelines coming into effect in Dec 2013 for the minimum amount of space that must be provided to each bird. Some farmer's this won't effect, as they already provide this space. For others, it will mean having to sell their quota and grow less birds, or building another barn.

I got off topic again but my point is, stricter regulations can only be a positive thing in terms of animal care and welfare.
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  #72  
Old February 7th, 2011, 02:58 PM
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my son is senior producer for a well known "media" company in Ottawa and is this moment negotiating with the SPCA for coverage. He's asked for a bit of help from me when it comes time for idea's.

Last edited by Melinda; February 7th, 2011 at 03:01 PM. Reason: error in saying "head" producer, should be senior
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  #73  
Old February 7th, 2011, 04:42 PM
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my son is senior producer for a well known "media" company in Ottawa and is this moment negotiating with the SPCA for coverage. He's asked for a bit of help from me when it comes time for idea's.
Well, when the time comes you know where to come for ideas.
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  #74  
Old February 7th, 2011, 05:47 PM
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I honestly believe,our government is not going to bother to change any laws or punishment regarding puppy-mills,or animal-cruelty period.
If there is nothing in it for them to gain,nothing will happen.
Any animal-lover in the media is called an"activist"often compared to Peta
Harper or McGuinty do not bother with animal-cruelty what so ever,a"few activists"will not mean more votes,heck McGuinty murders dogs just for the breed they are.
Pet-Shops selling pups/kittens should not be existing,I believe by now,everyone knows where they come from..

There should be a law,that if we know of animal-cruelty,be it puppy-mills,BYB's or simply a dog suffering tied up outdoors,action should be taken,right away,animal cruelty,should be looked upon as the very serious horrendous crime it is,but I doubt I will live to see it.
I give our HS credit,they don't beat around the bush,they get things done

Unlike many of you,I don't see anything first hand,but I feel the pain,reading about yet another puppy-mill and feel elated seeing pups rescued.
I really don't do any rescuing or fostering,but do what I can for the love of animals,try to get through to people the importance of s/n and to save an animal from an overflowing shelter rather than buying one at a store.
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  #75  
Old February 8th, 2011, 06:51 AM
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it took almost a year of , and yes, I'll call it harassment from myself and about
24 friends, daily calling walmart, emailing them along with the head company and the spca, also calling and emailing for them to close down the fish department, our walmart no longer sells any live pets. Does harassement work, sure does......each time any of us visited the store we'd go directly to the back and take pics of the dead ones in the tank (date on picture), and of the betta's in their tiny plastic cups and email them to the spca's.
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  #76  
Old February 8th, 2011, 08:19 AM
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Melinda,it's funny you should mention the fish at Wal-Mart,we had a K-Mart here at one time and every time I went I had to point out the dead fish in the tanks to the employees.
Never thinking that the Humane Society would care about fish..
oops
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  #77  
Old February 8th, 2011, 08:37 AM
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oh definately Chico, I use to call about our kmart too when it was here. I have people checking the pet shops that sell animals here and if there is even one pup lethargic, or running nose, cloudy eye or dirty cages (birds mostly)...a pic it taken and we send it and many emails to the spca
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  #78  
Old February 8th, 2011, 08:43 AM
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We have no puppy/kitten stores anymore here(Oakville)that I know of,the last one closed up years ago.
My vet at the time,used to make regular trips to the store and report her findings to HS,between her and others,they eventually closed shop..
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Old February 8th, 2011, 08:53 AM
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we have two left here Chico, one I'm not allowed in *L* poor young kids that have to come up to me to ask me to leave, I almost feel sorry for them.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 08:57 AM
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chico - I don't care if you go off topic mf. It is not done ............
It's great to brainstorm ideas for helping the issue every country has. You never know, by brainstorming maybe someone will come up with the perfect solution. Very interesting Melinda with the fish in WM story. I wonder why the other WMs still carry them. You'd think they'd just stop all together.
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  #81  
Old February 8th, 2011, 09:00 AM
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Yes, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Gov't will react, but there needs to be mass public screaming to do so. Melinda, you have the right idea, now all there needs to be is a few million more like you.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 09:15 AM
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ooop's, sorry, bad habit of mine going off topic. the reason other walmarts still have fish is because people aren't doing anything about it....each city has to make the choice for themselves, start going in weekly or if you work near one, daily.....well its sort of on topic, because the whole thought process is how to end things and get the knowledge out there.....by shutting down places, you are getting the word out. no?
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Old February 8th, 2011, 09:21 AM
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ooop's, sorry, bad habit of mine going off topic. the reason other walmarts still have fish is because people aren't doing anything about it....each city has to make the choice for themselves, start going in weekly or if you work near one, daily.....well its sort of on topic, because the whole thought process is how to end things and get the knowledge out there.....by shutting down places, you are getting the word out. no?
As I said - this is not what I consider going . We are still talking about ways to help the issues we have with pet overpopulation and ways to help solve them. It's all good.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 11:26 AM
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Great thread mf

Laws on puppy mills need to be stronger. They really need to take what the dogs go through to heart. It's abuse plain and simple. When they do get caught, it's really just a slap on the rist. The relocate and start up again. They just continue to do it.

Does there need to be more advertising in regards to puppy mills? He!! yeah. It should be posted on billboards and t.v(commercials). We try and educate those who come on here. But do those we educate, educate others? I really hope so. I know I have tried. But with some it has been to late, they have gotten their dogs from pet stores.

People also need to understand that many of these puppies also come from Europe. Poland, Hungary, Romania and the Czech Rep are notorious for being puppy millers.

Pet store workers will never tell you where the pups come from. There is one pet store near me. There are 2 signs. One stating what a purebred dog is and another stating what a "hybred" is. I can't tell you how many times they tried to KICK me out of that store.

Puppy Mills are not easy to find for the average person. Reason being is the "owners" of them will not let you see them. They will never let you see the parents when you ask to see them. There are no vets being called to the property, hence why these poor dogs are in the shape they are in. If vets were being called in, then they would be reported.

I would love to continue this, but duty calls.
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  #85  
Old February 8th, 2011, 01:26 PM
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Thanks mf.
Hybrid is just a nice way of saying mixed breed. I guess they figure it sounds better than mutt. That way people think they are getting some fancy dancy "breed". Of course for those so inclined they then think it's a gread idea to breed more of that "breed". I wonder how many years it will take before some really are accepted as true breeds.
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  #86  
Old February 8th, 2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Ok - who do we know who has some TV clout?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melinda View Post
my son is senior producer for a well known "media" company in Ottawa and is this moment negotiating with the SPCA for coverage. He's asked for a bit of help from me when it comes time for idea's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Yes, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Gov't will react, but there needs to be mass public screaming to do so. Melinda, you have the right idea, now all there needs to be is a few million more like you.
This is exactly what we need. I posted about the rally held in West Vancouver in this thread http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=75024&page=2 and really hope that it is just the start of more to come.

If people keep this subject in the news then hopefully something will be done to improve our animal cruelty laws.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 05:28 PM
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You know,I wish someone in our government would have the guts,but I believe,to them in the big scheme of things,we who care are a minority.

I remember every single animal-cruelty act that has been published,starting with Kensington the cat in Toronto,who was brutally tortured,by 3 students,everyone was outraged,protests ensued.....but nothing happened to these evil young men,except a very short stint in jail and that's just one story...that eventually just got forgotten,as will this one be about those poor dogs.

A while back,changing the cruelty-laws were talked about,the people 100% against any changes to favor the animals,were live-stock farmers and others in the business.

So,nothing has changed,livestock still travel in packed trailers on the way to be slaughtered,factory-farms still exists...
We have nobody in our government,be it the feds or provincial,who cares...

It is a blessing we have so many compassionate people,who do all they can to help,be it in shelters,or privately run rescues,people who foster and people who will go to great length to save animals from death.

Protesting,getting the media involved,will make people listen for a while,maybe the message will get through to some,but McGuinty and Harper will just wait until it goes away.
I am not saying don't protest,maybe one day someone will really listen and get things done

IMO,the whole country should mobilize,every single person with compassion for those that cannot help themselves.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
IMO,the whole country should mobilize,every single person with compassion for those that cannot help themselves.
There would have to be some kind of a message sent out so pet lovers would know what specific day to mobilize on. Maybe we could do an email and start sending it out. Like they did last year with the "don't buy gas on this day". Just have to figure out "the day" and what to do on that day.
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We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
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Old February 8th, 2011, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
There would have to be some kind of a message sent out so pet lovers would know what specific day to mobilize on. Maybe we could do an email and start sending it out. Like they did last year with the "don't buy gas on this day". Just have to figure out "the day" and what to do on that day.
I don't know if you read the links that I posted in the other thread about the sled dogs but the rally was called a Tweet-Up and particpants were to tweet everyone they knew. The organizer of the event is Catherine Barr who is a media journalist/blogger with her own website and Facebook page. Here's what I posted in the other thread ....

Quote:
There was a rally yesterday to bring awareness to our animal cruelty laws and how they desperately need to be changed right across Canada. I hope other cities start doing this as well to keep everyone's attention on this. Here is a write-up about it .....

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/lov...463/story.html



The organizer (Catherine Barr) is a media journalist/blogger and here is her website ....

http://www.catherinebarr.com/vancouv...est-vancouver/
Catherine Barr has a petition going that is going to be presented to the gov't at the end of February. I don't follow Facebook or Twitter and coulldn't find the petition when I googled. Hopefully, someone here will be able to post it.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Thanks mf.
Hybrid is just a nice way of saying mixed breed. I guess they figure it sounds better than mutt. That way people think they are getting some fancy dancy "breed". Of course for those so inclined they then think it's a gread idea to breed more of that "breed". I wonder how many years it will take before some really are accepted as true breeds.
The funny thing is, their definition of "hybrid" had to do with the type of breeder. If I recall, something like a local breeder. It's been a while since I was in there. But every time I did go in, that's when I did my educating. I asked the people standing in front of the pups if they truley knew what a puppy mill was. I also told them to research what it is. And then decide if they still want that puppy.

To be honest, I doubt any of them will be accepted as a true breed.

I have a very good friend here who is in broadcasting. When I get a chance, I will talk to him and see what can be done.
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