Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old August 26th, 2009, 11:04 PM
PetCrazy84 PetCrazy84 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4
so your CARNIVORE cat needs to eat this?

Orijen
sun cured alfalfa, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, Saskatoon berries, russet potato,licorice root, angelica root, peppermint leaf,hamomile flowers, dandelion, summer

AT A WHOPPING 470kcal a cup


Now Pet Food

potato flour, pea, potato, pea fibre,carrots, pumpkin, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, raspberries, blackberries, papaya, pineapple, grapefruit, lentil beans, broccoli, spinach, cottage cheese, alfalfa sprouts, dicalcium phosphate, sun-dried alfalfa,

AT 460kcal a cup!!!

And Go Natural Just for FUN!

Potato, Peas,Pumpkin, Apples, Carrots, Bananas, Blueberries, Cranberries, Lentil Beans, Broccoli, Spinach, Cottage Cheese, Alfalfa Sprouts

EVEN BETTER 547kcal a cup!!

Does anyone know is BANANAS or any of these ingredients are even benefical.. show me some research...



No wonder 50% of CATS ARE overweight!!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old August 26th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Marcha's Avatar
Marcha Marcha is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Greater Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 510
Akira, how does your quest go some four months later? Have you found another brand or diet for your pup?

Our pup was almost 8 weeks old when we got her from the local SPCA. She was used to Hill's Science stuff. We switched from that to Medi-cal while we looked around to see what alternatives were around for us, in the area where we live, and within proximity of our 'regular routes'. Bodhi was underweight when we got her, so we figured that the Hill's brand wasn't really working for her, and switching was going to at least give a small improvement while we got our ducks lined up. Then we found Orijen food, and saw that it was readily available at the shops that we frequent. We switched to that while we researched raw food options for Bodhi. I'd fed raw while I lived in Holland, but that was 10+ years ago, and Europe isn't Canada, regulations and such are entirely different, etc... so we used Orijen while we took our time to find a freezer, read up, make a budget, etc. We found a wonderful raw food specialist almost around the corner, and we drive past it several times a week at least. We can email them our order a few days in advance, they pack it into a box, we come into the store two days later, pick up the box and pay. Easy as that. They have everything from blocks to bones to necks, backs, supplements, etc. We'll stock up on meats that are on sale at the supermarket too. We've been all-raw for a week now and to be honest, Bodhi has been absolutely great with it.

With the Science stuff, Bo had quite a lot of irregular poos, part runny, part solid. She'd also go irregularly, it seemed. Of course being a pup she isn't regular yet, but this was more than the irregularity of a pup. Like she'd have two or three at sometimes 5 minute intervals per meal, so that could amount to 8-12 poos!! She was also drinking huge amounts of water, and refused to eat her Science stuff soaked. It was dry or nothing. Bodhi smelled something awful when we got her, and it continued until we changed her food.

We had two kinds of MediCal. The dry food and the wet canned food. Both of them were the Development stuff. The canned food was immediately clear - it gave her the trots, and we replaced it the dry kibble two days after starting to mix it with her Science stuff - the trots stopped. We added it back in once to see if there'd be a change, but nope - instant trots. We returned the unopened cans and got a refund.

On Medi-Cal dry food she seemed to become more regular, as in one bowel movement per meal, but her poos could still be half-runny, half-hard. Sometimes there'd be the odd all-runny, or all-hard ones, but it was still hugely irregular. Again, she didn't want it soaked, she wanted it dry or not at all. Thankfully, she was starting to gain weight on MediCal, which is more than we could say than for the Hill's food. With the MediCal food, her tummy seemed to be quite distended after a meal, she'd need some serious down-time in order to start digesting her food and she was grumpy and gassy for the first hour or two after a meal. She continued to drink huge amounts of water. Her body smelled less offensive, but was still quite umm - firmly - a wet-dog smell, even though she didn't yet swim or get wet.

With Orijen, the poo continued to be regular, AND became regular in consistency. She didn't want it soaked, but also didn't want to eat as much of it, AND continued to gain weight. She started drinking less water, and her tummy seemed less distended after a meal. She still slept for two hours after a meal, but now wasn't grumpy or gassy. She was quicker to wake, and yet more relaxed. Her smell improved dramatically - she no longer smelled like wet dog. She wasn't scratching as much as she had been prior to Orijen, and when I combed her, there was less 'gunk' in the comb (skin flakes and such). Her coat feels more firm, but that could also be a co-factor of getting older, as she was 12.5 weeks at that point.

Now that we've switched to raw, her body odour is virtually gone. The house no longer smells of 'dog' as soon as you come in, and there's no strong animal smell on our hands when we've pet her. While we're still working out how much exactly she needs per meal (which will initially be a constant adjustment anyway since she's a fast growing large breed pup), I can only say good things about raw. She now has about 1/2 of the amount of poo she had on dry food, whether grain or no-grain kibble. Her water intake has balanced out dramatically. No more gas. No more distended tummy. No more cranky behaviour after a meal (just don't go near her while she's got her bone! - we're working on that). Her breath doesn't smell strongly anymore - definitely general health and proper digestion/absorption signs. Her mood seems more even (could be a part of her getting a bit older and finding her place in our family).

The nice thing about raw and biologically appropriate food in general, specially for large breed pups, is that the pups don't grow too fast too quickly - which exacerbates the potential for bone and joint degeneration at later age.

Last edited by Marcha; August 26th, 2009 at 11:21 PM. Reason: couldn't count - had to change the time span in the first line
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old August 27th, 2009, 12:01 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,568
PetCrazy84 You are sounding more and more like you work for Medi-cal - am I right?

So tell me, an ingredient is listed as "Fish oil" what kind of fish is it that is used in Medi-cal foods?

What exactly is "Natural Flavour"? Flavour of what?

Do you think melamine is an appropriate protein source?

Is "Corn Gluten Meal" a good first ingredient in food for a carnivore?

What is "Powdered Cellulose"? It's in just about every Medi-cal food. Cardboard could be considered cellulose.

Oh how about this one "Plasma Protein" in the Mature formula? What in the world is that?

There's "Gelatin" in the Recovery formula - what is the health benefit of that to a sick animal?

Recovery formula also has "Natual gums" what exactly is it that they are using?

The Renal formula has "Meat by-products" what type of meat is used and what are the by products?

The first 6 ingredients in the Renal formula are "Water Sufficient For Processing, Chicken By-Products, Meat By-Products, Corn, Vegetable Oil, Chicken, Corn Starch" where are the actual nutrients that will sustain the body of a cat with compromised health? Do you know that most crf cats die from starvation because they refuse to eat the prescription foods - there's no taste to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetCrazy84 View Post
Cranberries- do you know that feeding cranberries actually can invoke a urinary infection??
So if cranberries "invoke a urinary infection" why does the Medi-cal dissolution formula contain them? and here I thought that was supposed to "dissolve urinary struvite crystals and stones" so what you're saying is instead it will given them a urinary infection.

What about the "Dried beet pulp" in almost all Medi-cal foods? It's nothing but a sugar-filled fiber/filler which can lead to diabetes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetCrazy84 View Post
Russet potato--- How is this natural... When did dogs chow down on potatoes in the wild?and not onyl that.. they are just breaking down all of the carbs in the ingredient panel..
About those potatoes - the number 1 ingredient in the HYPOallergenic/Gastro formula is Potato meal, followed shortly after by Potato protein.
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old August 27th, 2009, 07:12 AM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetCrazy84 View Post
so your CARNIVORE cat needs to eat this?
Absolutely not. Cats shouldn't be eating ANY dry food. Not Orijen, not Hill's, and certainly not Medi-Cal. If you knew as much about pet nutrition as you seem to think you do, you would know that. Read the links I posted, you might learn something. Question for you: what do you think of raw diets?
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old August 27th, 2009, 09:51 AM
DoubleRR's Avatar
DoubleRR DoubleRR is offline
Investigative researcher
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 347
Thankyou Growler and Sugarcatmom.

I believe what people feed their animals is their own business. If I am asked, I will espouse my beliefs on pet food, which have been formed by my own feeding of said pets over the past 45 yrs.

In this part of the forum, people ask about food, and we can all answer. There is no need to jump in and tell each other that we are at odds--we already know that--we are human.

At this time, where I live, Orijen is absolutely the best available dry kibble. I know this because of the many dogs and cats in my town who have improved health/weight/appearance and whose stools are small and well formed since using the food. I have been using it for my dogs and cats for two years--and am VERY happy with their health and energy levels.

However, if you believe that the stuff you use is working well for your pet, good! Do not try and tell me I am doing wrong by mine, and I will give you the same courtesy. I somehow manage not to hit people over the head in Walmart as they pick up Ol Roy--but it is VERY tempting to do so!
__________________
We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are. Anais Nin
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old August 27th, 2009, 06:00 PM
kandy kandy is offline
Hazel's Personal Servant
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,742
I always encourage people to do their own research on pet food. I'll agree with PetCrazy that the pet food industry is not regulated. The AAFCO is often assumed to be a regulatory agency working under the FDA, when in fact it's just a panel of pet food manufacturers who say what the minimum nutrional needs of an animal are. I'll also agree that if a dry food lists chicken as it's first ingredient - it does contain water and will drop down the list during processing. That's why you look for a food that has more than one meat based (and named) protein in the first few ingredients.

Any processed food (kibble or canned) will have carbs - unless you are looking at the 100% meat canned foods, which are not a complete diet but meant as a supplement. Grain free does not mean carb free. The only way to totally eliminate carbs from a dog/cat diet is to home cook their food or go with a raw diet. And yes, bananas are beneficial - they contain potassium, vitamin A, riboflavin, magnesium, phosphorous, iron, calcium, vitamin C, vitamin B6, niacin, thiamin, copper and zinc. They also have no fat and no cholesterol.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and my opinion is that I am better off to feed my dogs foods that contain bananas and cranberries rather than mystery meat (meat by-products) and corn.
__________________
Kandy
Livin in a Newfie Drool Zone
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old August 27th, 2009, 07:59 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by kandy View Post
Any processed food (kibble or canned) will have carbs - unless you are looking at the 100% meat canned foods, which are not a complete diet but meant as a supplement.
There are some very low to no carb canned cat foods that are complete (not sure about dog food). The ones roughly under 10% calories from carbs are preferable - complete carb elimination isn't necessarily the goal. http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html

In the case of cats, if one can't feed homemade/raw for whatever reason, a quality low-carb canned food is the next best thing (just had to say that in case someone else reading this thought wet and dry were equal).
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old August 28th, 2009, 07:54 PM
PetCrazy84 PetCrazy84 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4
Thanks

Thanks Kandy.

I totally agree.. it is your opinion what you feed your pet... I just don't want people to be blinded by marketing. Also, before you slander a company- make sure you do your research.
I have been feeding medi-cal to my dogs for years and I have not had one single problem.. my dog is now 9 years old!
And be careful what you say about companies and recalls= nutro just had a 2nd recall and Orijen had a recall in australia- because the food was killing pets- look it up online.
In the end its you who has control of what your pets eat and I feel 100% confident in my dogs food every single day... My own food for that matter.. who knows?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:02 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 53,771
As I recall, the Orijen recall in Australia had something to do with the excessive irradiation the gov't was exposing the food to. (Not sure if they ever pinpointed the exact cause and effect, but there was a link between the irradiation and the toxic effect.) In other countries, no recall was necessary because there was no excessive irradiation. So the Orijen recall doesn't seem to be related to ingredients.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old August 30th, 2009, 02:23 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetCrazy84 View Post
Also, before you slander a company- make sure you do your research.

And be careful what you say about companies and recalls= nutro just had a 2nd recall and Orijen had a recall in australia- because the food was killing pets- look it up online.
Perhaps you should take your own advice and actually read the articles on the incident in Australia with Orijen before you start slandering them

Australia gov't irradiation importing practises altering Orijen catfood?
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old September 1st, 2009, 04:56 PM
kandy kandy is offline
Hazel's Personal Servant
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetCrazy84 View Post
I have been feeding medi-cal to my dogs for years and I have not had one single problem.. my dog is now 9 years old!
Before I lost a very young newf to total kidney failure, I had never thought twice about dog food. My 2 dogs that I owned prior to my research were fed either Ol'Roy or Atta Boy (generic store brand). Both of those dogs lived long lives - one passed at 17 yrs old, the other at 15. However, now that I know more about dog food, I have to wonder - how much longer would they have lived had they been given better nutrition? Would Sheena have retained her hearing and her eyesight longer? Would Boon have been so overweight or perhaps never had any issues with her heart? Like many pet owners, I wasn't thinking about the difference between surviving and thriving.

It's like people who eat fast food day in and day out. Some of them will remain healthy and at a healthy weight. Others will suffer a myriad of health problems. Would I say that eating fast food for every meal was a good diet based on the fact that some people can remain healthy? No. Would I recommend to someone that they feed their dog the cheapest food possible based on the fact that my 2 dogs had long lives on cheap food? No - every dog is different. Just because one person has fed the food and didn't see any obvious problems doesn't mean that every dog will and it doesn't make it a quality food.
__________________
Kandy
Livin in a Newfie Drool Zone
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old September 1st, 2009, 05:14 PM
kandy kandy is offline
Hazel's Personal Servant
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
There are some very low to no carb canned cat foods that are complete (not sure about dog food). The ones roughly under 10% calories from carbs are preferable - complete carb elimination isn't necessarily the goal. http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html

In the case of cats, if one can't feed homemade/raw for whatever reason, a quality low-carb canned food is the next best thing (just had to say that in case someone else reading this thought wet and dry were equal).
I know that I've never found a truly carb free dog food but I've never looked at cat food that close. In the complete diet canned cats food with no carbs, what do they use to bind the ingredients together? Most better brands of cat food use guar gum or carageenan - but those are both carbs.
__________________
Kandy
Livin in a Newfie Drool Zone
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old September 1st, 2009, 08:58 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by kandy View Post
Most better brands of cat food use guar gum or carageenan - but those are both carbs.
Yup, guar gum and carageenan are often used, but because they are an indigestible soluble fiber, their caloric contribution is negligible. For instance, Innova Evo 95% canned foods contain both guar gum and carageenan (I believe the dog and cat versions are identical) and only have 0-4% calories from carbs, depending on which flavour.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 PM.