Is it just me...

[cassiek]

... or does there seem to be more than the "normal" amount of users who won't have their dog/cat spayed/neutered for a number of reasons lately?

I feel so frustrated I can't even comment on these posts anymore except suggest these individuals to go to www.petfinder.com or volunteer at their local SPCA, HS, etc. where I hope they may begin to appreciate how much of a tragedy the over-population of cats/dogs in the world really is. I feel that most arguments to these individuals are falling on deaf ears, but I have faith that even if 1 person out of 10 changes their mind, it has been a success.

I just can not understand how in 2010, with all the information, research, and statistics that is widely distributed and available, anyone would even consider breeding their pet. Or, maybe not planning on breeding their pet but just not having them fixed. To me, this issue should not even be a debate anymore in 2010. I'm happy we are making slow progress in this area, but I fear in my life I will never see a time with no more homeless pets. (And I have at least another 50+ years to go...)

I am no angel... I have made mistakes in my lifetime of owning pets, including purchasing a dog from a BYB, something which I regret every day of my life and will never do again, now that I know better. Even 30 years ago when my parents adopted our first family dog, he was neutered, when there was not nearly as much education out there about the pet over-population. How do we not know any better now?

Please, please, please... for those of you who are considering breeding your pet or not having s/he fixed please check out this thread: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18285 I feel Lucky Rescue put it well.

I just have a hard time accepting that individuals can know about how many innocent, loving, sweet pets are killed because of their owner's irresponsibility (because, let's face it - most animals that end up in these situations is no fault of their own) and still want to breed their pets. Am I missing something here? Where is the common sense? Maybe it's a stretch here, but in my mind those who breed their pets irresponsibily are directly contributing to the murder of millions of dogs and cats every year.

I don't want this thread to turn into a hostile debate back and forth, rather I ask... no beg, those of you who are considering breeding your pet to please re-think it.

[the gang]

no not just you

[Dracko]

I'm convinced many of those threads are started by trolls and I don't even bother posting in them.

[luckypenny]

Cassie, thank you for bringing this topic up. I can't speak for others but I do have to admit, until only 5 or so years ago, I didn't know much about what went on at shelters and pounds and how bad the pet overpopulation, abuse, abandonment rate was. For some reason, I always thought that SPCA's were where one took their pets to be neutered or was the place responsible for picking up strays who would shortly be found by their owners .

It was only when we had a truly awful experience did I begin to do some research, and it wasn't even related really but, one topic led to another and I just happened to fall on all sorts of information by 'mistake.'

I think that unless someone is looking for particular info, it's really not that readily available to the general public as we'd like to think. I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.

[Rgeurts]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.

I am one of those people. And until we had health problems with Thorin, he wasn't neutered. Not because we wanted to breed him, but more because a) the surgery scared me b) we didn't see the need as he doesn't run free or go to off leash. I have learned alot from the people here, and am very appreciative

And also learned how important spaying/neutering is, not just for reproduction, but overall health of the animal.

[cassiek]

Originally Posted by Dracko

I'm convinced many of those threads are started by trolls and I don't even bother posting in them.

I think so too... but sometimes I'm not so sure. Regardless, I volunteer at a HS and it just baffles me the number of calls every shift I have of yet another litter of puppies because of irresponsible owners, the incorrect information people have about spaying/neutering etc.

Originally Posted by luckypenny

Cassie, thank you for bringing this topic up. I can't speak for others but I do have to admit, until only 5 or so years ago, I didn't know much about what went on at shelters and pounds and how bad the pet overpopulation, abuse, abandonment rate was. For some reason, I always thought that SPCA's were where one took their pets to be neutered or was the place responsible for picking up strays who would shortly be found by their owners .

It was only when we had a truly awful experience did I begin to do some research, and it wasn't even related really but, one topic led to another and I just happened to fall on all sorts of information by 'mistake.'

I think that unless someone is looking for particular info, it's really not that readily available to the general public as we'd like to think. I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.

I also was not nearly aware of just how bad the situation is until about 4 years ago. Once I started becoming involved in rescue work and doing some research my eyes were quickly opened to the harsh reality of this tragedy. We had always had our pets fixed, probably more initially because we did not want to deal with the work puppies require and because of the health benefits, not necessarily because we realized how bad the pet over-population is. When Diesel came along I was bouncing up and down the day he went in to lose his buddies!

Still, I like to think that one does not have to do that much digging to find the benefits of spaying and neutering your pets. Surely, the number of pet stores that are starting to promote rescues instead of buying puppymill pups, the billboards, the vast amount of literature on the topic is starting to get through to people... I hope. With this day and age of all the information that is available literally at our fingertips it's not difficult to find the information... if you know what you are looking for. I know BFAS also does a lot of work in the US to promote No More Homeless Pets and does tons of advertising on the issue... I like to think that this info reaches members of the public and may cause them to think twice before breeding their pet. I know that I usually get comments from people that call the HS along the lines of "I guess this is why they are promoting spaying/neutering" and it gives me hope that people are starting to realize how important it is.

I really think our vets have such a huge advantage here. They talk to many, many pet owners and I hope that a lot of them also promote the surgery and explain the benefits of it. They really are at an advantage as they see so many clients and they are considered a reputable source.

Originally Posted by Rgeurts

I am one of those people. And until we had health problems with Thorin, he wasn't neutered. Not because we wanted to breed him, but more because a) the surgery scared me b) we didn't see the need as he doesn't run free or go to off leash. I have learned alot from the people here, and am very appreciative

And also learned how important spaying/neutering is, not just for reproduction, but overall health of the animal.

I think this is one of those things we just have to keep plugging away at, and slowly the situation will improve. Sometimes I just become so frustrated and saddened by how tragic reality really is and need to vent.

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by cassiek

I think this is one of those things we just have to keep plugging away at, and slowly the situation will improve.

I believe it is improving, slowly but surely. Not sure how old you are Cassie but, when I was a kid only 30 years or so ago , no one I ever knew spayed or neutered their pets . Now that I think of it though, not too many people in our neighborhood had pets. I don't remember any cats living on our street and only two homes had dogs. Where I live now, at least every second house on the road has either dogs or cats.

Originally Posted by cassiek

Sometimes I just become so frustrated and saddened by how tragic reality really is and need to vent.

As you should when you need to .

[bendyfoot]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

I think that unless someone is looking for particular info, it's really not that readily available to the general public as we'd like to think. I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.

I think you hit on a very important point here. Many, if not most of us, have made mistakes in the past (hey, I've got a byb dog myself), and only through experience have we learned better ways to go about things with our animals. I think most of these threads are probably started by people who have good intentions and genuinely don't know the facts or alternatives. I think when we jump down their throats with accusations and hostile words, we lose any chance to educate them...hostility leads to closed defensiveness, not an openness to be taught.

[mastifflover]

Originally Posted by bendyfoot

I think you hit on a very important point here. Many, if not most of us, have made mistakes in the past (hey, I've got a byb dog myself), and only through experience have we learned better ways to go about things with our animals. I think most of these threads are probably started by people who have good intentions and genuinely don't know the facts or alternatives. I think when we jump down their throats with accusations and hostile words, we lose any chance to educate them...hostility leads to closed defensiveness, not an openness to be taught.

I also have learned a lot being here. I hope I have helped to also educate others. Without the knowledge of others here I would have not learned so many things and gotten some great advice. Some of the posts are definitely trolls those are the ones that are usually the ones that get everyone really upset and that is the reason they are here. Me too Bendyfoot I have also bought a dog many years ago from a byb. Now I know better so I do better.

[bendyfoot]

Originally Posted by mastifflover

I also have learned a lot being here. I hope I have helped to also educate others. Without the knowledge of others here I would have not learned so many things and gotten some great advice. Some of the posts are definitely trolls those are the ones that are usually the ones that get everyone really upset and that is the reason they are here. Me too Bendyfoot I have also bought a dog many years ago from a byb. Now I know better so I do better.

And if they're not trolls? If they're just someone who's misinformed but actually cares about their pet, not knowing (because they haven't been educated) that their actions/decisions may not be in their pet's best interests? I think if someone suspects a poster is a troll, they should refrain from replying all together. If they don't ignore, I think they should park the hostility at the door and provide helpful information.

[14+kitties]

Originally Posted by cassiek

... or does there seem to be more than the "normal" amount of users who won't have their dog/cat spayed/neutered for a number of reasons lately? [/B]

I just went back and read the opening post. Talk about threadjacking!! This thread has gotten so far off course it's hilarious!! But I think it's helped clear the air a little.

[cassiek]

Gosh has this thread ever developed into something I never imagined! I haven't been able to come on all day but was shocked to see how many more responses there have been! It's great... I love open, polite conversation!

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

I think the whole part of cassiek starting this thread was to try to say that it is not always the senior members that react badly. Sometimes it's the newbie coming in with preconceived ideas. Should we react to that? No. Do we? Yes. It's human nature.

Actually, I started this thread just to rant about the amount of people I have been noticing lately who are not spaying/neutering their pets and to vent but... I agree. I certainly have witnessed several times senior members responding very politely and tactfully to a new poster who starts a thread on a topic that's pretty "hot" territory and when the OP doesn't get the answer they receive, the OP is the one who becomes hostile and angry and starts spouting off insults. Obviously we are all humans and don't take too kindly to someone screaming at us over the internet when we were being polite in the first place.

Originally Posted by Dracko

And given this is a pro spay/neuter board I think members should be able to state their views clearly. It wouldn't make sense, for instance, for someone who is a Liberal to join a Conservative message board and think if they start posting all sorts of things pertaining to the Liberal party that it isn't going to stir things up. All message boards have a theme running throughout them and that's what creates the whole feel of the board and makes it home for many members.

Very well put, Dracko. I think everyone is welcome here, but should expect that by joining a thread where many members are involved in what we are and have the opinions we do, they probably will not receive the answers they want. Can we point them in the right direction? Sure. But they need to be realistic too and expect that if they come on a board that is largely pro spay/neuter and start whining about their pregnant dog they left tied up outside to be raped by all the male dogs in the neighbourhood and now have 10 pups to deal with and don't know what to do (yes I had this call last night - good grief), they should not be surprised to expect some backlash. For the most part, I think we are fairly good at keeping our emotions in check

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

I just went back and read the opening post. Talk about threadjacking!! This thread has gotten so far off course it's hilarious!! But I think it's helped clear the air a little.

Haha it has for sure! But I think it's been a good conversation.

I don't think anyone here would hold it "against" someone because they purchased their pup from a BYB, pet store, etc. we all make mistakes... I think as long as we learn from them and become educated, it's all good. We have all made mistakes. That being said, if we had a user join that learned how terrible pet stores are etc. and continued to support this after everything they learned on here but decided not to care... we might be a bit upset and somewhat hold them against that.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by cassiek

I don't think anyone here would hold it "against" someone because they purchased their pup from a BYB, pet store, etc. we all make mistakes... I think as long as we learn from them and become educated, it's all good. We have all made mistakes. That being said, if we had a user join that learned how terrible pet stores are etc. and continued to support this after everything they learned on here but decided not to care... we might be a bit upset and somewhat hold them against that.

I agree, I don't think members hold it against anybody who purchases from a byb or pet store, just that they care for their pet.