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  #31  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 09:42 AM
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My conclusion from reading this is summarized this way.

If you are wealthy or have great insurance, (likely have COMPANY insurance) the US medical system whips the Canadian system. Why? because you get great treatment fast and it likely won't bankrupt you. (unless you have one of many exclusions or pre-conditions that are not covered, then you can go bankrupt unless you are rich)

If you are rich, there is NO comparison, the US wins hands down. The richest Canadians constantly go to the US for medical treatments even though they can get free health care or pay for private healthcare in some places right here in Canada.

If you are poor in the US, welfare pays the tab but the service may not be fast unless it's an emergency.

If you have no insurance or cannot afford insurance and/or are not poor enough then Canada whips the US, because people NEED medical care to thrive and in many cases survive.

Canada does some things better than the US and some things worse than the US. Canadian Healthcare, despite all its flaws, for the average citizen is superior in Canada.

Healthcare should not be in the hands of insurance companies despite the undeniable waste, less than perfect management, and corruption that is likely part of any government program.

A look at life expectancy tells a VERY strong story that suggests that one system has better 'results' than the other system (for the average person).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
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  #32  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by marko View Post
My conclusion from reading this is summarized this way.

If you are wealthy or have great insurance, (likely have COMPANY insurance) the US medical system whips the Canadian system. Why? because you get great treatment fast and it likely won't bankrupt you. (unless you have one of many exclusions or pre-conditions that are not covered, then you can go bankrupt unless you are rich)

If you are rich, there is NO comparison, the US wins hands down. The richest Canadians constantly go to the US for medical treatments even though they can get free health care or pay for private healthcare in some places right here in Canada.

If you are poor in the US, welfare pays the tab but the service may not be fast unless it's an emergency.

If you have no insurance or cannot afford insurance and/or are not poor enough then Canada whips the US, because people NEED medical care to thrive and in many cases survive.

Canada does some things better than the US and some things worse than the US. Canadian Healthcare, despite all its flaws, for the average citizen is superior in Canada.

Healthcare should not be in the hands of insurance companies despite the undeniable waste, less than perfect management, and corruption that is likely part of any government program.

A look at life expectancy tells a VERY strong story that suggests that one system has better 'results' than the other system (for the average person).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
^Basically this. If you are lucky enough to have good insurance handed to you (i get good insurance through my moms work.. and while it's not some fancy amazing job we just got lucky and got good benefits).... OR if you are rich, you are fine. Otherwise, an average joe in the states? Yeah, you are done for. And, on the other side of the spectrum, if you a dirt poor crack head that goes to the ER because you overdosed on heroin or something, free healthcare for you!

My friend works at the ER in Camden (just google it lol) and plenty of times random drug addict losers will come in and will have been so cracked out their hurt themselves in some stupid way and our tax dollars will gladly pay for their comfy bed and all their care yet if I didn't have insurance and was hit by a car outfront of my house tomorrow, they'd be asking for my credit card information before I even got in the back of the ambulance (seriously, it's pretty damn corrupt). Before Obama Care went into affect, some of my friends were without insurance because they turned 19 but were either not at school full time to stay on their parents insurance or they only worked dinky part time jobs that didn't really offer insurance... soo many times they would need to go to a doctor and couldn't. It was sad.. and some of them would end up paying insane amounts of money out of pocket.
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  #33  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 12:21 PM
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...plenty of times random drug addict losers will come in and will have been so cracked out their hurt themselves in some stupid way and our tax dollars will gladly pay for their comfy bed and all their care...
So, what you're saying is that you're entitled to free care over these "losers"? Because someone has a psychological disease and/or a physical dependence, they're worth less than you as a human ?

I'm not trying to patronize, Kathryn, but, unless you know firsthand what it is to suffer with serious life-threatening addictions (whether you yourself or other loved ones), I don't think you, or anyone, has a right to judge and categorize them as "losers."

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...yet if I didn't have insurance and was hit by a car outfront of my house tomorrow, they'd be asking for my credit card information before I even got in the back of the ambulance (seriously, it's pretty damn corrupt)....
Correct me if I'm wrong. If you didn't have a credit card, you'd just be left on the street to die ?
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  #34  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 12:54 PM
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We aren't wealthy by any stretch--if I'm remembering correctly what Nuria said she made, we made about in the same range and now much less that hubby is retired--but we can still get affordable insurance. If I don't have a job that offers a plan, it will take about a week's wages (at a $10/hr job) each month for me to get a single plan, and it will have a hefty deductible (about $2500/yr) but it will protect me for major medical should something big arise. We set aside a little each month to put in our medical kitty to offset anything I might need in the way of out-of-pocket services. If I don't need $2500 of services, then it's just the premium out-of-pocket, which is the hedge against something big happening. If I need more than the $2500 (i.e., something bad has happened), I can go to any provider or specialist in a large network and not have to worry about losing the house. Wait time is minimal on most elective procedures and if something is high priority, the wait time is almost nonexistent--measured in hours, not days or weeks.

So it's not as cut and dried wealthy/poor vs. the middle class as it's being made out to be. We're actually at the mid-to-low range of the middle class. It's more in how you budget and which plan you choose than in what you make.

Is it a bite? Sure it is...but it's available and most people are covered, either through work or by private plans or eligible for programs because of low income. And it's worth the added security.

Are there problems with the system? Yes. Obviously, because there are some people who still don't have/won't get coverage. But I much prefer paying up front so I can see where the costs are, laying out the cash for premiums if I know there will be services when I need them, and avoiding the tax burden for a government run service that won't be there when I need it and won't be transparent as to where the costs are.
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  #35  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:15 PM
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its not so simple in the states, my cousins wife cant get health insurance in california because she is overweight and it is truthfully a health risk so she will not be insured if something goes wrong. my other cousin in atlanta has insurance through his employer and he says a very good plan, yet it still cost them 3000.00 out of pocket because his wife needed transfusions after birth. in both cases if they had stayed in canada they would have complete coverage.
as an aside my bil is american and has practiced medicine here for over 30 years because he could not see himself practice where a kid would not get medical care because of parents not having insurance.
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  #36  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:17 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong. If you didn't have a credit card, you'd just be left on the street to die ?
LP, if it's life/death, they have to treat you enough to make you stable, but that's all. You would then be transferred to a community hospital. If you have a job and means to pay by, they will bill you. If you are low-income, most hopsitals have a charity dept. (forget exactly what ot's called now, it's been yrs!). The problem is this... if you make even a hair over what they consider low income, you are on your own. Sure, they stabilize you, but then they attach your wages, freeze your bank accounts etc. As I said beofre, my sister and her hubby actually had to file bankruptcy twice due to medical bills. They live in a small town, my sister has a bachelors in criminal justice/psych and was working for $8.50 an hour as a teacher in a group home. Her husband makes a little more than she does, but he does back breaking labor for it. With 3 kids and just life in general, you can't afford $600 a month for insurance, which is what it would cost them. Luckily they didn't lose their house, it's in my dads name and will stay that way for now.
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  #37  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:31 PM
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...As I said beofre, my sister and her hubby actually had to file bankruptcy twice due to medical bills. They live in a small town, my sister has a bachelors in criminal justice/psych and was working for $8.50 an hour as a teacher in a group home. Her husband makes a little more than she does, but he does back breaking labor for it. With 3 kids and just life in general, you can't afford $600 a month for insurance, which is what it would cost them. Luckily they didn't lose their house, it's in my dads name and will stay that way for now.
As unfortunate as their situation is, they were able to strategize (is that a word?) so that they still have a roof over their heads. I was thinking about Hazel's comment that, in her situation, it's about budgeting. Ideally, with each individual circumstance, many people/families can try to figure out a way to have the system work for them. It may not always be successful in all cases but, if that's what you have to live with, then you do your best to prepare for it, no?
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  #38  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 02:33 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong. If you didn't have a credit card, you'd just be left on the street to die ?
NO that is absolutely NOT the case. I can tell you from experience. My daughter had excellent insurance when she was in college and a 3 month wait between the time that it lapsed and her new plan kicked in. And of course she needed to go to the ER during that time. She was billed for the cost of treatment and a few months later when the bill came she called them and said that she couldn't afford to make the payments yet. They gave her a grace period and then a very affordable, no interest payment plan.

My own medical bills were ASTRONOMICAL but we made payments when we could, changed to another plan that covered my choice of facilities, and yes we altered our lifestyle.

As I've said...there are good and bad points to both systems but if I had had to wait AT ALL I would have died. And not once in 11 years has anyone asked me about my ability to pay before treating me.

Please no offense, (and you'll all understand that we Americans are feeling particularly patriotic this week.) I'm not denigrating your system and ours is not perfect but if you were to read only Kathryn's posts you would get a very skewed picture of the way things are here.
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  #39  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 02:54 PM
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As unfortunate as their situation is, they were able to strategize (is that a word?) so that they still have a roof over their heads. I was thinking about Hazel's comment that, in her situation, it's about budgeting. Ideally, with each individual circumstance, many people/families can try to figure out a way to have the system work for them. It may not always be successful in all cases but, if that's what you have to live with, then you do your best to prepare for it, no?
Having been on both sides of it, I understand where Hazel is coming from. And as a retired couple, I'm sure it's tough for them. But a family with small children, minimal jobs and daily living, there's no way to budget for $600 a month for insurance. When you bring in less than $2,000, have a $900 mortgage, groceries, utilities, gas to get back and forth to work, well... that doesn't leave a lot. I know SO many people in that very situation back home. Most of my family, in fact. DH and I are very fortunate, and we help when we can. But emergency surgery cost them more than $30k once and another time more than $40k. Only option at that point is chapter 11. Ever watch John Q. Public? It's not far from what really happens. I would have to say that a lot of people are very sheltered and naive if they think everyone has an option and a choice. Life isn't that black and white. Where some may be able to budget, others may not for reasons we may not know/understand.
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  #40  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rgeurts View Post
I would have to say that a lot of people are very sheltered and naive if they think everyone has an option and a choice. Life isn't that black and white. Where some may be able to budget, others may not for reasons we may not know/understand.
That was part of my point, though. There is a group of people who are falling through the cracks in the system and it is that part of health care that needs to be addressed in this country, imo. To rehaul the part that works, however, in my book falls under the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", especially if government is involved in the fix. Government involvement always seems to bog down a system, decreasing services while driving up costs. Once a system starts depending on public dollars (taxes) instead of earning its way, it tends to develop a life of its own...and becomes self-perpetuating, no matter how expensive it gets.
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  #41  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 04:40 PM
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I heard there are 40 million people in the US who cannot afford medical-care or Health-Insurance,that is a shameful situation to me.
I have a friend married to an American,they live in Venice Florida,since they are over 50,pay $1.000/month for healthinsurance,even so her husbands knee-replacement surgery was not covered,because he had a history of knee-problems.
Insurance companies will do anything to not have to pay out,that is just a plain fact.
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  #42  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
I heard there are 40 million people in the US who cannot afford medical-care or Health-Insurance,that is a shameful situation to me.
I have a friend married to an American,they live in Venice Florida,since they are over 50,pay $1.000/month for healthinsurance,even so her husbands knee-replacement surgery was not covered,because he had a history of knee-problems.
Insurance companies will do anything to not have to pay out,that is just a plain fact.
Where's the like button here?
Fact is if my family lived in the States with our current jobs and the situation we have we would be considered one of the "lowly" ones. No way would we be able to pay for health insurance. With the history of breast cancer, colon cancer, and heart disease that runs in my family I am forever grateful I live in a country where I don't have to pay for health concerns.
When my mother and my sister were ill with cancer they were both very well taken care of. Everything needed to fight that horrendous disease was given them. My mom survived 10 years. My sister fought for 18. My family was not left with crippling bills to mar our memories. I can't imagine having to pay off medical bills for years after losing a very dear family member. Unthinkable.
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  #43  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:08 PM
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That was part of my point, though. There is a group of people who are falling through the cracks in the system and it is that part of health care that needs to be addressed in this country, imo. To rehaul the part that works, however, in my book falls under the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", especially if government is involved in the fix. Government involvement always seems to bog down a system, decreasing services while driving up costs. Once a system starts depending on public dollars (taxes) instead of earning its way, it tends to develop a life of its own...and becomes self-perpetuating, no matter how expensive it gets.
I'm sorry Hazel, that probably came across completely wrong! I see that after reading it now. That wasn't aimed at you, or anyone in particular. It was just a general statement. I hear things like that quite a bit, and it really does frustrate me, just because I know how badly some people are affected by the lack of healthcare and/or the ability to afford it. Not that it's anyones business, but I'm sure there are a few here who would be a little "high and mighty" and say everyone can afford to budget something, but there really are some who cannot.

This was a previous post I had made:

"I had a tumor and spontaneous hemorrhaging. I was scheduled for surgery. The day of the surgery my doctor called and told me to come in, but not for surgery. I went and spoke with him. My insurance company had denied the claim (I had paid premiums for over 5 yrs at that time and never used my insurance). They wanted to try hormome therapy first. He said he didn't reccomend it because it could actually cause the tumor to grow and if that happened I would need a histerectomy, I was only 26. So I waited it out and put up with the hemorrhaging for almost 2 yrs before the tumor went away on it's own. The most disgusting thing about it was I had fallen below full time hours for that quarter and lost my insurance. Next quarter, when I hit full time hours again I couldn't get my insurance back because I then had a "pre-existing" condition, which they did nothing for anyway!"

So even if you can afford some type of healthcare, it doesn't mean you will be treated. In my case, it wasn't life-threatening, but it could have been with the hemorrhaging.
So, again... I have been on both sides of the fence. They both have pros/cons and I think it really depends on the medical condition. If you can afford to wait, Canada isn't too bad. But if you can't wait, you could die in the meantime. Edmonton is under a lot of scrutiny right now after several people recently died in the hallways (the emergency rooms put the stretchers in the hallways in ER until they can get a room for them)of local hospitals here while waiting for someone to get to them.
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  #44  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:13 PM
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LP - I have every single finger and toe and whatever else I can find to cross crossed for you my friend. I pray the mass is benign. Hopefully you will get some results soon.
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  #45  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:15 PM
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where's the like button here?
lol 14+
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  #46  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 06:14 PM
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I guess I should count myself lucky to live in Ontario! Three years ago I found a lump in my breast. I had an appointment with my family doctor in less than two weeks. I had an ultrasound and mammogram a week later. He had the results in ten days. Because of what he saw, I was referred to a specialist- took about 2 months to get in to see him. His suggestion was to monitor the lumps (ultrasound found 3) and get an ultrasound done every 6 months. He kept telling me not to worry since I was under 30 at the time and it's "extremely rare someone your age has breast cancer".

Well, 6 months later, one lump grew so big he panicked and I had surgery to have them removed. They removed 5 in total. Thankfully all came back benign but his aftercare was horrible. All in all, what was supposed to be an easy recovery, ended up with the sutures rupturing because of the amount of fluid retained. I had gone back to him 2 days before, he was on vacation so they "let" me see the other doctor he shared the office with. He told me to go home, it was nothing to worry about. I wound up in hospital with an infection.

Scary part is, last week I found a lump. Saw my family doctor two days later. Today was the start of the tests all over again.

I consider myself lucky I have access to healthcare but at the same time, the quality may not be as good because the doctors are overloaded with patients. If I were rich, I would definitely be going to the US for this.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 06:37 AM
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as an aside my bil is american and has practiced medicine here for over 30 years because he could not see himself practice where a kid would not get medical care because of parents not having insurance.
What a wonderful man . Now that is a caring doctor that loves to help humans.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
I heard there are 40 million people in the US who cannot afford medical-care or Health-Insurance,that is a shameful situation to me.
I have a friend married to an American,they live in Venice Florida,since they are over 50,pay $1.000/month for healthinsurance,even so her husbands knee-replacement surgery was not covered,because he had a history of knee-problems.
Insurance companies will do anything to not have to pay out,that is just a plain fact.
There is NO way such a rich country should allow it's citizens to suffer without health care, that is just sinful.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 09:28 AM
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There is NO way such a rich country should allow it's citizens to suffer without health care, that is just sinful.
I agree citizens shouldn't be allowed to suffer without health care.


I quess i was lucky when they thought my insurance was cancelled i was still treated and not once was i asked for a credit card. The only thing for me is if the insurance company and the hospital doen't get it worked out.

Then i was instucted to send everything to OHIP. what they don't cover i would have to pay. and all this could stop me from being allowed to cross border into the US as i'm told
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Old May 4th, 2011, 10:09 AM
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I don't know about Ontario Shirley, but it's only getting worse here in Quebec. Theoretically, universal health care is great but, in all practicality, it's just not working properly. It's not infrequent that we hear stories of people dying in hospital ER's waiting rooms waiting to be seen . I'd like to see statistics on how many ppl die prematurely because they weren't getting the proper care or for the lack of a family doctor in the first place. We have few walk-in clinics in our area and when you call ahead of time, they say they don't take new patients . We don't even have a clinic in our town .
This IS a huge problem and i have seen it first hand on many different occasions throughout the years. MANY major hospitals regularly have emergency rooms with gurneys of sick people lying on them lining the hallways. These people often wait hours to days to get a bed not in the hallway. Sometimes they wait hours to days to get treated. (When they do get treatment, it's usually of good quality in my experience).Usually more serious cases do get treated faster but sometimes people do die or get sicker while waiting. Sometimes even though the health care appears free, we get bloody upset because it's 100% NOT free. Canadian taxes are WAY higher than US taxes. Part of the reason for that is the 'free' healthcare.

Getting a family doctor is also so hard these days and it's SO important to have 1 doctor that follows you as you get older. And yup getting appointments with specialists can take forever (and muck with your peace of mind) .... these are all huge problems to our healthcare system.

Obviously any treatment is better than no treatment, but when family members are seriously sick, conditions like these are very aggravating. Thinking for you LP.
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  #51  
Old May 4th, 2011, 07:13 PM
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marko blame the quebec gov for lack of doctors. if you are willing to work for nothing than you can practice med in montreal. the gov has set a criteria to how many doctors are needed and they want you to practice in remote areas so if you want a billing number than you have to go where they say you are needed otherwise you have to be lucky and jump through hoops. this includes young people coming out of residency and want a hospital position
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  #52  
Old May 4th, 2011, 08:45 PM
shirley1011 shirley1011 is offline
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I have no idea what it is like in Quebec...maybe the new NDP will influence some change, but in Ontario it isn't perfect but we have so many new walk in clinics...they don't know you...but they are available on a moderate wait period and if you don't have a family dr. they are a stand in. There seem to be more family dr.s coming in...from other countries of course but we have not had any problems with care and my immediate family has had it's share of emergencies this past few years.
Not a perfect system here in Ontario but it works, at least no complaints from me.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 10:45 PM
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...Sometimes even though the health care appears free, we get bloody upset because it's 100% NOT free. Canadian taxes are WAY higher than US taxes. Part of the reason for that is the 'free' healthcare....
Oddly enough, the US spends more per capita on health care than Canada. In 2006, 3678$ in Canada vs. 6 714$ in the US. Here's a lengthy yet interesting article I found. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._United_States
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  #54  
Old May 5th, 2011, 07:13 AM
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marko blame the quebec gov for lack of doctors. if you are willing to work for nothing than you can practice med in montreal. the gov has set a criteria to how many doctors are needed and they want you to practice in remote areas so if you want a billing number than you have to go where they say you are needed otherwise you have to be lucky and jump through hoops. this includes young people coming out of residency and want a hospital position
Absolutely, the health system is managed by the province. The Federal gov't just has some guidelines that the provinces have to follow, but it is the province that dictates how many doctors are put through med school, their salary, hospital's budgets, etc., etc..

Here in Ontario, the McGuinty Gov't has recognized the lack of family doctors and has funded a 30% increase intake into med schools. Unfortunately it takes so many years to train a doctor and you can't force them to stay in Canada or to go to rural areas. He has also made it easier for foreign doctors to get their medical license here.
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  #55  
Old May 5th, 2011, 07:59 AM
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We had a wonderful family-doctor for 30+ years,with my kids,he would even make housecalls,I absolutely adored him.
He retired a couple of years ago,I cried
The doctor who bought his practise and patients,is from Pakistan.
I have nothing against him,he is very nice and thourough,sent me for 2 million tests
Unfortunately he lost about 50% of the former doctors patients,not being comfortable with him.
You cannot feel the same about a doctor who was almost family and one who is totally different,but we are ok with him,just have to watch it and do our own research,since he is a real pill-pusher.
He also charges for everything,even signing passport-pics,but I guess times are changing
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  #56  
Old May 5th, 2011, 08:11 AM
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marko marko is offline
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marko blame the quebec gov for lack of doctors. if you are willing to work for nothing than you can practice med in montreal. the gov has set a criteria to how many doctors are needed and they want you to practice in remote areas so if you want a billing number than you have to go where they say you are needed otherwise you have to be lucky and jump through hoops. this includes young people coming out of residency and want a hospital position
I have a very good friend that practices in the USA for this exact reason...
but to be fair, it's NOT nothing a QC family doctor makes 150,000/yr on average and specialists make considerably more, right here in Quebec. True enough they could make more if they worked in another province or the USA but that's still a good salary.
http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticC...ine/income.pdf

The language thing (AFAIK) is an issue for many Quebec doctors. Fewer and fewer (English speaking doctors from Canada or Elsewhere) doctors pass the required French exam so they simply cannot practice here in Quebec....and perhaps doctors that only speak French feel stuck here...and likely unhappy that they are the lowest paid in Canada. (Still 150K tho).

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
Oddly enough, the US spends more per capita on health care than Canada. In 2006, 3678$ in Canada vs. 6 714$ in the US. Here's a lengthy yet interesting article I found. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._United_States
That kind of stat while interesting, doesn't personally give me any clarity as I'd need to see a breakdown of those costs to see for myself if 'apples are being compared to apples'. Surface stats are often very misleading...

At the end of the day if you are not taking society into account, but just yourself and your family I think if you are rich or close to rich the USA has the better health system. For everyone else I think Canada has the better system.
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  #57  
Old May 5th, 2011, 08:16 AM
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T Sometimes even though the health care appears free, we get bloody upset because it's 100% NOT free. Canadian taxes are WAY higher than US taxes. Part of the reason for that is the 'free' healthcare.

Yes, that is true! I feel, though, one of the reasons our health care system is so bogged down is because people bring their children and themselves into emerg for every little stinking cold they get.

Getting a family doctor is also so hard these days and it's SO important to have 1 doctor that follows you as you get older. And yup getting appointments with specialists can take forever (and muck with your peace of mind) .... these are all huge problems to our healthcare system.

It took me years to get a doctor here in Eastern Ontario. Some areas it is horrible, others it's easy
Family doctors don't really diagnose anything anymore, they send you to a specialist. Some referrals are warranted, some not and that really bogs down the specialists too.

I am all for Nurse Practioners (here on ON, they now require to have an equivalent to a Masters Degree) to be doing some first line diagnoses, ordering lab work, etc. to relieve some doctor's time to so they can take care of the more serious issues.

LP:

Currently, here in Ontario about 46% of our tax dollars go to health care (we do get about 9 bil of the 47 bil from Feds in transfer payments). ON (2009) spends about $5500 per person, which is nat'l avg. and I believe Que is one of the lowest in the country (about $4900 per person).

What surprises me in the article you posted with the link is that 46% of US health care is funded by the Gov't. That does seem high seeing as most health care is covered by private insurance (perhaps somebody from the US can clarify that).
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  #58  
Old May 5th, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Having been on both sides of it, I understand where Hazel is coming from. And as a retired couple, I'm sure it's tough for them. But a family with small children, minimal jobs and daily living, there's no way to budget for $600 a month for insurance. When you bring in less than $2,000, have a $900 mortgage, groceries, utilities, gas to get back and forth to work, well... that doesn't leave a lot.
And that is where a gov't system shines. Low income people here pay almost no tax (or none), so they don't have to worry about paying for health care, and the middle income to high income pick up their tabs by paying higher taxes.
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  #59  
Old May 5th, 2011, 05:37 PM
Chris21711 Chris21711 is offline
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And that is where a gov't system shines. Low income people here pay almost no tax (or none), so they don't have to worry about paying for health care, and the middle income to high income pick up their tabs by paying higher taxes.
I don't see anything wrong with that....Not everyone gets the same breaks in life.

I definately wouldn't complain about our health care in Ontario....sure some things need fixing, but I understand only so much can be done.

In 2002, Pepe was diagnosed with Cancer, had a successful operation and homecare...........In 2004, I broke my hip, had an operation followed by homecare and a physiotherapist coming to the house 3 times a week to get me back on my feet.....In 2005, my hip started to crumble (it can happen), the surgeon saw me on a Wednesday and called me at 10.30 pm on Sunday night to tell me to go to the hospital first thing Monday morning for a replacement....job done, returned home after 5 days, with homecare and another physiotherapist to get me back on my feet.

The Ontario government are giving incentives to Doctors to relocate to underserviced areas, now in our area one doesn't have a problem finding a family Doctor.....Clinics do not have a patient list, they are walk-in and one doesn't call to make an appt.

I could carry on listing personal instances......But, not once were we asked if we had insurance.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 06:40 PM
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I don't see anything wrong with that....Not everyone gets the same breaks in life.

I definately wouldn't complain about our health care in Ontario....sure some things need fixing, but I understand only so much can be done.

In 2002, Pepe was diagnosed with Cancer, had a successful operation and homecare...........In 2004, I broke my hip, had an operation followed by homecare and a physiotherapist coming to the house 3 times a week to get me back on my feet.....In 2005, my hip started to crumble (it can happen), the surgeon saw me on a Wednesday and called me at 10.30 pm on Sunday night to tell me to go to the hospital first thing Monday morning for a replacement....job done, returned home after 5 days, with homecare and another physiotherapist to get me back on my feet.

The Ontario government are giving incentives to Doctors to relocate to underserviced areas, now in our area one doesn't have a problem finding a family Doctor.....Clinics do not have a patient list, they are walk-in and one doesn't call to make an appt.

I could carry on listing personal instances......But, not once were we asked if we had insurance.
............. aaaaand that should be the end of the debate. No, it ain't perfect. But it sure beats having to find that extra money when you are self employed or only working part time or at a minimum wage job at the end of the day to pay for health insurance which "may or may not" pay for your ailments.
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