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Old April 21st, 2010, 05:35 PM
MedievalMan MedievalMan is offline
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My sister's 2 dogs just died today suddenly.... what happened?!?!

My sister lives at my parents place (they have 1 dog and a cat, she had 2 dogs and a cat).

I have dogs and cats myself.. I can't imagine how bad I'd feel if this occurred; I feel horrible for my sister.

My dad came home today and found her almost 3 year old jack-chi Lola dead, with her 5 year old jack russel in apparent seizures (both were perfectly healthy beforehand). He was rushed to the vet, they managed to bring him back a few minutes, then he finally passed.

I'm currently on the road and won't talk to my sister until Friday, but my wife tells me my sister is going to get a autoposy done to hopefully find out what the cause was (it would sure bug the hell out me!)

The strange thing is, that, just over a year ago, my parents young pup (4 months) died suddenly as well in a similar manner; they never determined what was the cause (though the Vet suspected it was because they got the pup too soon and didn't have sufficient immunity).

Thoughts race around my head as to what could be the cause:

- Someone Poisoning (I've heard of it happenening where I live in Windsor, Ontario; however, I can't imagine any of my parents immediate neighbours doing it (as I know them fairly well); they are not on a corner lot and there's backyards all round (no alley). My dad is meticulous about not letting the dogs become an annoyance.
- Food poisoning (there have been food recalls - but they hadn't changed the food or the bag so why suddenly and why not the other dog).

@#!@#!#

This sucks. Was wondering if anyone had a similar situation or thoughts.

Thanks.

-Matt
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Old April 21st, 2010, 05:50 PM
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Winston Winston is offline
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Matt I am so sorry..this is absolutely horrible. My condolenses on the loss...There was a similiar thread opened recently and I am not sure the area in which you live but here is a link to that thread...



http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....ghlight=walnut
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Old April 21st, 2010, 05:56 PM
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MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
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I currently have a thread up because 2 of my dogs died 10 mins after getting to the vet. They were having severe seizures and convulsions and lying on the ground unable to move. Their tongues where purple and they were breathing very heavily and had a rapid heartbeat.

3 veterinarians told me that it was likely some kind of poison. The only thing that causes those type of symptoms suddenly are nerve toxins, such as in some rat poisons. This just happened the other day and we are waiting for toxicology results to come back and determine what the poison was. An autopsy won't determine the cause if it was a poisoning, your vet NEEDS to send the stomach contents and possibly part of the stomach off to a lab to be tested.

There are a couple of poisons that can cause secondary poisoning if the animal eats a poisoned critter such as a rat, rabbit, squirrel, etc..
Strychnine is one. This is a common ingredient in rat poisons. This is fairly easy to determine in early stages because loud noises, such as clapping, will cause the dog to go into convulsions. If it's late stage near death this test doesn't necessarily work.

Another is a fairly rare, high controlled poison called 1080, sodium fluoroacetate. This is an extremely strong poison and eating just a tiny amount from a poisoned animal will kill a dog. From what I read .05 mg/kg is enough to be fatal in canines. It also remains highly toxic in the vomit, so if one dog vomits and another eats it it can kill that dog.
This poison was banned for residential use in most countries awhile ago, but who knows what could be sitting around in an old house somewhere for rats and such to get to. I don't know what country your from because it doesn't say on your profile. It's still in pretty high use in Australia because of large rodent outbreaks. It is also used in some countries to bait coyotes.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 05:57 PM
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MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
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I posted before Winston posted. The thread she posted above is mine.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:00 PM
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Antifreeze can also cause seizures, and if you're not sure how long it took for the dogs to succumb it could have been that. Most vets are able to test for antifreeze though. The treatment, if it's determined to be that, is 190 proof grain alcohol (everclear). It displaces the antifreeze in the liver and doesn't allow the body to metabolize it.

Antifreeze will often cause vomiting and lethargy at first, and then symptoms may clear up and the dog may appear fine for awhile. Once the symptoms come back they come back full force, causing seizures and other issues, and it is often too late.

There are also some plants that can cause fatal symptoms in dogs. You will need to search your yard to determine if you find any of those. Also mushrooms, and there were various other things mentioned in the thread Winston Posted above.

Search your yard for anything like dead animals that the dogs may have gotten to also.

Collect any vomit from your dogs that you may find and put it in the freezer so it can be sent off to a lab by your vet and tested. They can also see if there's anything strange, like certain plants, in it.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:09 PM
MedievalMan MedievalMan is offline
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Update:

My dad called the police and fire dept; poisoning is suspected and they are searching the yard.

The vet is taking stomach contents/etc to be sent of for analysis.

Thanks again for the thoughts,,

-Matt

Oh, and I'm in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:23 PM
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MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
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I'm really sorry for your loss. Obviously I completely understand how you guys feel right now .

If you find anything out let us know. I'll post when the toxicology reports come back on my own dogs. It should be sometime soon.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:31 PM
MedievalMan MedievalMan is offline
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Hi,


I read your post and feel really horrible for you. I am away from home right now and just want to give my dogs a big hug and maybe a nice walk

My dad mentioned to me that the neighbour a few houses down laid rat poison out... so it's not impossible that it got to our yard somehow (whether through dead/dying rat or otherwise).

The yard is being searched, and it'll prob. be a little while for the toxicology.

Sincerely,

Matt
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Old April 21st, 2010, 08:55 PM
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Goldfields Goldfields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBirdIsEvil View Post

Another is a fairly rare, high controlled poison called 1080, sodium fluoroacetate. This is an extremely strong poison and eating just a tiny amount from a poisoned animal will kill a dog. From what I read .05 mg/kg is enough to be fatal in canines. It also remains highly toxic in the vomit, so if one dog vomits and another eats it it can kill that dog.
This poison was banned for residential use in most countries awhile ago, but who knows what could be sitting around in an old house somewhere for rats and such to get to. I don't know what country your from because it doesn't say on your profile. It's still in pretty high use in Australia because of large rodent outbreaks. It is also used in some countries to bait coyotes.
You may be telling me something I don't know, MyBirdIsEvil, I didn't know it was used here in Oz for rodents, but it is used for fox baiting. If they lay it in the forest opposite our place they notify everyone so they can keep their pets locked up, but still two neighbors lost wandering sheep dogs that ate some.
I hate hearing about Matt's sister's dogs and yours dying this way and just hope it was not a deliberate act of poisoning that caused these deaths, otherwise no dogs are safe until the culprit is caught.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 09:09 PM
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BrownEyedGirl BrownEyedGirl is offline
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Oh my goodness, I'm sorry for the loss of your sisters beloved furbabies.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 11:03 PM
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I'm so sorry for the loss of your sister's dogs, Matt Please extend my condolences to her and your family.

I hope that you're able to pinpoint the cause--if only to set your mind at ease about what's been happening.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 11:49 PM
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MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MedievalMan View Post
Hi,


I read your post and feel really horrible for you. I am away from home right now and just want to give my dogs a big hug and maybe a nice walk

My dad mentioned to me that the neighbour a few houses down laid rat poison out... so it's not impossible that it got to our yard somehow (whether through dead/dying rat or otherwise).

The yard is being searched, and it'll prob. be a little while for the toxicology.

Sincerely,

Matt
Can you guys find out what kind of poison the neighbor used? Different poisons cause different symptoms. Some poisons are unlikely to cause fatalities with secondary consumption unless they eat a large animal that has consumed a lot.

Either way, neighbors should be informed that putting rat poisons out is a potential danger for neighborhood pets. If there is a rat problem it is best to use traps in the home, and live traps outside, not poisons, for the safety of pets and native wildlife.

Quote:
You may be telling me something I don't know, MyBirdIsEvil, I didn't know it was used here in Oz for rodents, but it is used for fox baiting. If they lay it in the forest opposite our place they notify everyone so they can keep their pets locked up, but still two neighbors lost wandering sheep dogs that ate some.
I'm not sure how extensively it is used for rodents. I'm going by what I read on a bunch of websites, because most of the information I could get on poison 1080 was from australian websites since it is a highly controlled substance here and not used often. The only thing it is supposed to be used here for (as far as I know) are sheep collars. They put it in the collar of the sheep so if a coyote bites them on the neck they will die.
It's a really nasty poison and will kill wildlife that consumes the carcass of the poisoned animal, especially scavengers. It is especially toxic to canines. It is less likely to effect cats because they don't often eat already dead prey. Even after the animal decays it is still present in potentially fatal amounts where the animal died. It is also present still in the vomit of the poisoned animal, so if something consumes the vomit they can die.

It is a really nasty poison, and after reading about it I don't agree with its use at all. This is a really really cruel way to kill anything since it causes extremely painful seizures and convulsions that potentially last for a couple of hrs. The poisoning starts out making the animal really disoriented and they will run around vocalizing constantly for no reason and be in pain. Then the convulsions and muscle seizures start. I can't imagine any more painful way to die, and I wouldn't wish it on any animal.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 09:04 PM
MedievalMan MedievalMan is offline
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Thanks everyone for the condolences.

I spoke with my sister today, she is quite devestated, I can't imagine how she feels.

If I find out more about the type of poison or source I'll be sure to post an update.

Thanks.

-Matt
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 09:14 PM
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Matt--I'm so sorry to hear this of your sister's beloved pets. Please extend my sincerest condolescences and hope that they determine what caused this tragedy.

sweet little ones.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 11:00 PM
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I'm really sorry for your sister's loss. And for your parents'.

It does sound like poisoning and if they find out that it is, maybe putting a camera in the yard may help figure out who's doing this. It may not be a next door neighbour but someone down the street. Three dogs dying the same way is not a coincidence.

do your parents have any mushrooms in their yard? This is just a thought as I remember a story in which a lady's two dogs died and it was from eating mushrooms in the yard.

I hope your sister gets to the bottom of this...
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