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Old July 16th, 2007, 02:43 AM
artemis artemis is offline
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I hate puppy mills but reputable breeders charge an arm and a leg

I started out looking for a Maltese pup about a year ago. I love the way they look and a girl in my building has the cutest, friendliest and most well behaved Maltese which she bought from a pet shop for $3500. I don't like pet shops because I don't trust them and they charge way too much for pups who probably come from puppy mills.
So I started looking into reputable breeders only to find out that they charge $2000-$3500 for a puppy, which I can't afford. One Maltese breeder suggested that I look into getting a Yorkie as they are cheaper so I began to research again only to find out that any reputable Yorkie breeder asks for about $1500-$2500 for a pup.
How is a person who doesn't want to deal with pet shops/puppy mills/brokers supposed to get a puppy for a decent price? I don't mean to sound harsh, but $2000 for a puppy is ridiculous. Unfortunately, puppy mills seem to be the only places who offer puppies at reasonable prices. I even looked into shelters and it's damn near impossible to find a puppy that is healthy and hasn't been traumatized in some way and even some shelters ask for up to $500 or more.
I considered a Morkie but even the people who breed them ask for $900-$1200 for what is essentially a mutt. Some breeders offered me dogs that they have tired of showing for cheaper but my heart is really set on a puppy that I want to raise. I'm really frustrated, so if anyone has any ideas, I would appreciate the input.
Thanks.

Last edited by artemis; July 16th, 2007 at 02:49 AM.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 03:05 AM
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Keep looking into shelters/rescues too often there are dogs in need. Just because your neighbours' dog is well behaved etc doesn't mean a puppy that you get from a breeder will be of the same temperment as well. Rescue/shelter animals can be just as healthy, loving, well behaved, cute & friendly as the ones from reputable breeders and they are not contributing to the over population of animals already in the world. Think of the gratitude & unconditional love a rescue will give to you for the difference you make in it's life, puppies from reputables breeders always have homes waiting for them, but rescues wait & wait through no fault of their own.

This is from the SPCA website in BC, Canada this does not include adoption fee which here usually runs less than $250 CDA
Please keep in mind this estimate is for a medium size dog just because you want a small/toy dog the cost will not drop very much

DOGS:

To keep a medium sized, mixed breed, spayed female dog the yearly cost will be approximately the following:

Food 12 bags dog food (18kg) @ $45 $540.00
Biscuit treats 2 boxes per month @ $3.99 96.00
Veterinary Care Yearly Visit - exam and vaccinations @ least 71.00
Nail clipping 6 trips to the vet @ $15.00 90.00
License fee 24.00
Grooming Spring bath and brush out 40.00
Vacation 2 weeks dog care @ $15/day 210.00
Total
*please note that is not the Adoption cost at an SPCA shelter, this is an approximate yearly cost of keeping the animal $1071.00

One Time Costs:

Adoption fee (approx. only, check with your local shelter) at the SPCA $135-$250
Spaying (female) and tattoo
at the SPCA 50.00
Food and water dishes 15.00
Collar and leash 25.00
Brush and comb 15.00
Toys - balls, Frisbees, etc. 25.00
Crate 65.00
Total $340.00

The above does not include emergency medical care, initial vaccinations, obedience classes, the cost of fencing, or bed.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 03:28 AM
artemis artemis is offline
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Thanks for the reply. I will keep looking into shelters, but I'm kind of specific about what I want.
I'm also aware of the costs involved in having a dog as I used to have a Great Dane. It's not that I don't have the money, it's just that I can't justify spending that kind of money on a puppy. Like I said, I think $1500-$3500 is ridiculous.
You're right, there's no way to know if any two dogs of the same breed will be just as well behaved, however, I wouldn't know either way until after I got the dog anyway. Each breed still has a general temperament and since breeders know their dogs and breed specifically for temperament as well as other qualities, I've always thought that it was probably my best shot. Although I had gotten my Dane from a breeder when he was 2 years old and he had some behavior issues due to having been bred and then neutered too late, so I wouldn't get an adult dog again. If I get a puppy, at least I can train it and socialize it myself and it wouldn't be as unpredictable as getting an adult dog that I don't know.

Last edited by artemis; July 16th, 2007 at 03:32 AM.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 08:43 AM
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I would wait and buy from a reputable breeder. I know you don't feel that you should pay so much for the puppy, and I kind of agree that they do tend to over-charge in some instances for puppies, but, when I get a puppy, I want it to be a life-long friend and I want that life to last for as long as possible. A reputable breeder will have tested the parents and worked extrememly hard to get this puppy to be just what I want.

There are breed rescues that you can go through and if you want a puppy, you can always get put onto a waiting list, it might take longer, but you're helping a little one.

I could never buy one of those pups in the petstore because I understand that the 3500 that you spend on the pup could turn into thousands more in vet bills because of bad breeding.


There is of course the other option, you could rescue a puppy that is not of the same breed you were thinking of. there are thousands of small breed puppies up for adoption in many areas. you could try petfinder, I like that you can search in your specific area, and also narrow the search to be only for a certain age or breed.

Good luck, consider rescuing, when you go to petfinder, you'll see that there are so many lovely dogs out there who need a home, and be patient, one day you'll find a pup or dog that fits you and your home perfectly, I've been searching for about three years. I'm still waiting, one day I'll add another dog to my home, but I want to make sure that it's the right time, that it's the right dog, etc.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 09:02 AM
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I am curious as to where you are looking for a reputable breeder?

I don't know a lot about the toy breeds but I can tell you that if a reputable breeder tried to sell me a rottweiler puppy for $3500 I would tell them to get a clue!

I know several rottie breeders that sell pups from proven parents - proven in the ring (in several venues, not just conformation), completely genetically screened and with a long list of previous puppy owners and puppies that have been successful in a variety of areas - that sell puppies for considerably less then $3500. The only reason I would expect to pay that much for a puppy was if I had it flown over from Germany!

Another thing you might want to consider is this - I have, in my living room, a lovely show quality Belgian Sheepdog. He has his HIC (a basic herding certificate) and he has had his hips/elbows rated by OFA. He is neutered. My cost - $0.

Why? I got him from a reputable breeder. But free, you say!

He wouldn't perform in the showring. It is that simple. Without a Championship, he can not be used for stud and was just existing in her home. She has several dogs that LOVE the show ring but Reni couldn't stand it, didn't want to perform. The breeder wanted him to have a wonderful home that would do something with him. And that he has!
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Old July 16th, 2007, 09:48 AM
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I would pay a reputable breeder what they normally charge for a puppy. If that happens to be 3,000 for a maltese then that's what I would pay. You could buy a pup from a puppy mill or a backyard breeder and contribute to the miserable lives that their parents live in, and probably pay another 3 - 5000 dollars for health problems that come up from the bad breeding on top of it all.
I don't know how in good conscience you could ever consider buying from a puppymill.
Your other alternative is to wait for one to become available from a rescue. Get your name in to some of the small breed rescues and wait until they have the type of dog you're looking for.
Sometimes breeders also clear out older pups/dogs that haven't turned out quite the way they wanted for their show plans, or retired females or males from their breeding plans.
Don't base your decision on money alone, you'll only pay for it later.

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Old July 16th, 2007, 02:06 PM
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If you want a puppy, a puppy that is has got its health papers-opthomology, cardiac, orthopedic...not to mention, excellent well established line of temperment; I think you have to cough up the money. When I went to see the breeder of my pup I was astounded at how she personally invested in every pup. Her heart and soul has gone into producing the nicests English Springer dogs. When I counted how many trips to the vets, the specialists-ie Cardiologist, accredited eye Drs, accredited orthopedic Dr. She shows dogs at no expense to the owners. She feeds them holistic premium food, provides 6 weeks insurance premiums. It goes on and on her expense. She is in debt in a major way. She charged 1200.00. This breeder barely pays what she puts into them. If for whatever reason I didn't want my dog, she wants to be informed and will buy back the dog.....that much love and care for her pups.

A reputable breeder is the only way you can ensure health and temperment. If I was to buy from a Pet Store it might be $900.00. But what security do you get-most don't allow you the info to trace the pup to a breeder.
I do find that some breeds cost more than others- I am not sure why but, the breeder should be able to tell you why it cost that. Also find out how many litters a year are produced. A red flag should go up if the breeder produces multiple litters... surely you can tell who is in it to make money. My last thought is that some breeds are "designer breeds". I know bulldogs cost around 3500.00. Everyone wants a bulldog so the demand shoots up. I am willing to say you probably could get a beautiful beagle for 600.-800. Whatever is in fashion drives up the price-it shouldn't but it does!!!!
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Old July 16th, 2007, 03:36 PM
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I have a friend who breeds Yorkies though she spends much more than she ever makes on it - and she is not at all atypical. I too think iof you actually want a dog with her or his correct papers and one that you know comes from a reputable source, here is no choice than paying the money. Breeders have little choice but to charge those fees. They are not in it for the money, that's for sure!!

I paid over $1300 for my female Siamese cat because she was a show quality kitty. This was not my intention - I was seeking a cat with special needs actually but I fell in love with this one. I know what the breeder goes through and I sometimes think I should have given her more - there is no way that amt of money compensated for the cost of raising a good quality kitten!!

You have to account for the show process- a breeder only acquires papers if she or he has champions and that can cost a small fortune. The travel alone to some of the shows is easily twice what I paid for one cat - and that is to one show! Then there is the care and feeding to the mama, genetic testing (not inexpensive!!) , genetic testing of the male if they do not have one of their own - because they cannot afford to just allow any cat or dog mate with their animals - and that pet too has to be a champion! Then there are vet and medical bills, top quality vet care for mama - I could go on but my friend is a family physician and she has been wondering if she can continue this hobby!

Puppy mills do none of this and produce poorly socialized dogs from mothers who are ill treated,m diseased and malnourished. Even so, pet shops charge $1000 and up, It is not worth it - it is the same as black market adoption, only worse. To them , a dog or cat,m is a profit maker and they do not care for their animals.

If you cannot afford the money - and a puppy will cost you much of that as it is throughout the year, you should think about looking at shelters that charge approximately $100 for cats and prob more for dogs. There are also breed specific rescues and that is anywhere from $300-700 for a puppy and maybe less for a dog. Also ,some breeders retire their dogs and you may obtain a cheaper pet quality dog that way though certainly not a puppy.

Since 25% of all dogs in shelters are purebred, you may find a Maltese. Look at Petfinder and Google Maltese rescue and you may find some options. There is no cheap way to adopt a puppy and I think that is one lesson we all learn!
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Old July 16th, 2007, 06:30 PM
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I agree,make sure you find a reputable breeder

My sister made the mistake of not ensuring that the breeder who sold her a maltese puppy, was reputable. She has two young children who absolutely fell in love with there new maltese puppy. Unfortunately, by the time the puppy was 15 wks old it was already diagnosed with severe hip displasia and couldn't even go up the stairs.
She called the Breeder and he agreed to replace the puppy but refused to put her down. She offered to pay for the vet fees and the cost of putting the dog to sleep ( who was already in pain) and he told her if she did that he would not reimburse her or replace the puppy.
She could not afford to pay for another dog, so she brought the puppy back to him. When she went down to the room when the cages were for the dogs, she handed him the puppy and he placed it in a cage with a male dog.
(BTW, the mother of this puppy was already in a cage with male)

She took her new puppy,who is doing ok luckily, and left.
She did call the SPCA to report him as soon as she got home.

I'm sure there are alot of sad stories like this one, thought i would share mine.

Make sure you find a reputable breeder or , rescue a dog who needs a home.
There is a puppy out there for you,

Good luck
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Old July 16th, 2007, 06:32 PM
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That is horribly sad. Breed her anyways.
Poor girl.:sad:
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Old July 16th, 2007, 11:30 PM
artemis artemis is offline
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Originally Posted by LavenderRott View Post
I am curious as to where you are looking for a reputable breeder?
I live in Toronto so I've been looking around the GTA. I also wouldn't mind going to the US as long as it wasn't more than 4-6 hours of a drive.

Everyone who has responded has given perfectly good reasons for why breeders charge so much, but that still doesn't mean that I, or most people would want to pay that amount.

I've also looked at petfinder for a few months with no luck. All the animals that I might consider are either so far away or have so many problems or special needs. Which I think is not much different than buying a sick dog from a puppy mill. As much as I wouldn't mind helping out a dog in need, it has to be the right dog for me and I just haven't been able to find it.

I know that most people here are probably against mixed breeds, but I've been reading about how mutts tend to be more hearty and less likely to develop diseases that the purebred parents might be susceptible to. How much truth is there to this?
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Old July 17th, 2007, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by artemis View Post

I know that most people here are probably against mixed breeds, but I've been reading about how mutts tend to be more hearty and less likely to develop diseases that the purebred parents might be susceptible to. How much truth is there to this?
I wish someone would tell that to my mixed breed dog who's vet bills over the past 5 years could have bought be a half decent car

I don't think anyone is "against" mixed breed dogs, but there is a difference between adopting a dog from the SPCA or a rescue, and having someone sell you a mutt as some sort of fancy new breed and charging you an arm and a leg for the same mix you can find at shelters.

In an earlier post you mentionned rescue dogs being unhealthy or traumatized and adults being less predictable. I think this is a misconception, stemming perhaps from the idea that dogs only end up homeless because there is something wrong with them.

People give up animals for lots of (stupid) reasons, like they're moving, they want a new puppy, the dog no longer matches the furniture. There are awsome dogs to be found in rescue, and if predictability is what you're looking for, an adult rescue who has spent some time in a foster home is probably going to be the most predictable option.

Have you contacted local breed clubs? They may be able to point you in the right direction of either ethical breeders or breed specific rescue.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by artemis View Post
I know that most people here are probably against mixed breeds, but I've been reading about how mutts tend to be more hearty and less likely to develop diseases that the purebred parents might be susceptible to. How much truth is there to this?
I don't think there is anyone here against mutts. We, as a group, have a huge problem with designer dogs!

A puppy is only as genetically sound as it's parents, regardless of breed. If you breed a dysplastic rottweiler to a dysplastic shepherd, you are going to get dysplastic puppies. Your pet shop designer dogs are lucky to live til you get them home - the "breeders" that breed them only care about the money they will make and certainly don't care about how sound the parents are. What do they care - the dog is going to spend it's life in a cage making babies - walking is an option.

Don't discount your shelter dogs. I adopted a lovely older rottweiler from the local shelter 10 years ago. For 8 years she was my best friend, a wonderful ambassador of the breed and my son's guardian angel. She was never, ever sick and when we lost her to cancer, we were all devastated.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 08:55 AM
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Many people in Toronto have much interest in Maltese and Yorkies, but they sometimes do find their way into shelters. If you were to give your name to the Toronto humane society you could be put onto a waiting list and when that particular breed of dog comes in, they contact you. This is the best way to adopt a dog or puppy that is breed specific, there's also a couple of small breed rescues within the Toronto area, and it's the same with them, you give them your name and your adoption info, you get pre-approved and when that type of dog comes up they contact you.

The reason that you don't see too many of these dogs on their lists is because people have put their names onto these lists.

I'm just saying, if you have been looking on petfinder with no luck, then getting on some waiting lists might make it easier.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by artemis View Post
Everyone who has responded has given perfectly good reasons for why breeders charge so much, but that still doesn't mean that I, or most people would want to pay that amount.
If I want to buy a new car and I don't want to pay what they cost, then I don't get a new car. It's pretty simple.

When you're looking at the small / toy breeds, you have to keep in mind that they produce very small litters. Yet the cost for the breeder to produce them is astronomical when you consider the necessary health testing on the dam, proving the merits of the dam through showing, stud fees, cost of getting to the stud dog, frequent need for c-sections, etc. It's simple economics. It costs a lot to produce a quality puppy and therefore it's going to cost a lot to purchase one. Reputable, responsible breeders aren't doing this to make money but neither are we doing it to provide low cost puppies to people who don't want to pay for what we go through.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 06:23 PM
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I agree with the above statement very much. If you want a show quality or even pet quality dog from a breeder who spends a fortune in raising these dogs, you have to pay for it. It is like anything else. If you do not want to, then look elsewhere but not at puppy mills because you will probably spend more than anything charged by a reputable breeder on vet bills anyway. I don't know why you are arguing about this- if you cannot afford a dog, you may want to rethink it,. If you want to pay a small fee and can afford a dog, then, look at breed specific or as follow the excellent suggestion to call an SPCA and have your name added to a list. As is the case with any good breeder, of course, you will have to go through a check of references and many questions but that help[s you as much as the puppy or dog. Puppies are very hard to find but dogs less so and sometimes , a one year old dog already trained is easier than a new puppy = it all depends on what you want.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 06:55 PM
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i would hit the spca....get yourself a loving in need of a home dog......they are more loyal and loving. just my thoughts.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 08:41 PM
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In an earlier post you mentionned rescue dogs being unhealthy or traumatized and adults being less predictable. I think this is a misconception, stemming perhaps from the idea that dogs only end up homeless because there is something wrong with them.

People give up animals for lots of (stupid) reasons, like they're moving, they want a new puppy, the dog no longer matches the furniture. There are awsome dogs to be found in rescue, and if predictability is what you're looking for, an adult rescue who has spent some time in a foster home is probably going to be the most predictable option.
Thank you Pitgrrl, very well said I don't know where the OP got this idea !

Last edited by Frenchy; July 17th, 2007 at 08:44 PM.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 08:43 PM
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Although I had gotten my Dane from a breeder when he was 2 years old and he had some behavior issues due to having been bred and then neutered too late, so I wouldn't get an adult dog again.

This may have been a BYB instead of a breeder.....and judging adult dogs up for adoption simply because this one had behavior issue is extremely unfair on your part.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 09:56 AM
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I was a little concerned when I read the opening statement about why you wanted to get a Maltese, they are cute, friendly and well-behaved. I hope you have done more research into the breed to figure out if it really is the right breed for you. Although I do not breed toy dogs, I do know that several of the breeds have common health problems. They can also get a little jumpy, nippy and yappy, make sure this really is the right breed for you before stepping throught that door. I would hate for you to do all this searching, find a dog and end up not being happy with it in the end.

If you really want to get a puppy from a breeder (a good one), you could contact some and get on the list like some have stated. You could also try this, go to some shows first to meet owners/breeders of Maltese. (hint: there are 2 in Milton in Sept). Sometimes if you can start up a relationship with a breeder you like, they may be willing to help you out a little if they like you too. Sometimes the may keep a puppy to see if it will turn out to be a show dog, when it does not, you may be able to buy it then. Some breeders also "foster" out some of their puppies that they really like yet do not have the room or time to keep them themselves. In those cases the breeder maintains ownership of the dog, you have it in your home to raise and love. There are often "rules" for fostering a puppy, such as certain regular health checks, grooming, etc. They will probably also want to be able to show it when it is old enough, usually at their expense. Some breeders I know turn over ownership of the pup once it has been shown and they have bred it once, or they decide it just will not fit into their breeding program like they had hoped.

I do caution you though that if you want to get into fostering with a breeder, make sure you know all the breeder's stipulations, I have heard of fosterings gone terribly wrong when both parties were not aware of the "rules". This is an option if you have your heart set on a nice, show-quality, well bred dog, but do not want to pay the big price tag (which by the way is there for a reason). I would consider a foster if I knew the family well and they knew all that I would require of them. It is a great way for me to maintain some control over the better pups I am producing and ensuring that more will be shown and have health checks done. You could also do a co-ownership, but that also has it's own set of "rules".

Good luck, and remember, like most things, price is often a hint at quality.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 09:46 PM
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Have you asked yourself why you want a dog, why a puppy and why a specific breed or purebreed? I had 2 dogs and one died. I've been looking for another for a long time (9 months) and i also volunteer at the SPCA so have seen a lot of dogs. In short, a neighbour died and left his 11 year old mutt who is deaf, overweight, ill ($500 in vet bills) and arthritic and I took her in. She has absolutely stolen my heart!!! She was nothing like what I was looking for but sometimes what you need falls right in your lap. Please give a dog in need, a home. You won't regrete it and he/she will never forget your kindness.
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Old August 3rd, 2007, 03:32 AM
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Artemis, Have you tried North Central Maltese Rescue? They have 13 maltese available right now.
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Old August 10th, 2007, 08:47 PM
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We have to stop these puppy Mills ,anyway possible if anyone is trying to do so I am volunteering to help.
Quebec where I live is the worst province in Canada for these Mills, even though the Gov't here have the toughest laws on paper ,nothing is done otherwise.

We really need to work hard to get rid of these S.O.B.'S and I'm willing like I said to help anyone who is trying to do the same to shut these guys down and for good.
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Old August 10th, 2007, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes View Post
If I want to buy a new car and I don't want to pay what they cost, then I don't get a new car. It's pretty simple.
I couldn't agree with you more. This type of topic gets me a little irritated. If you want a cheap dog then look for something else. The amount of money that goes into these dogs from reputable breeders is incredible and they have to make some money off of them so they need to up the price. If you don't want to pay what they are asking, find another dog. In my mind, you get a dog because you want a companion, regardless of the breed. Over population of animals due to breeding is in many cases unnecessary but logical in some cases as yes there have been problems with mixed breeds and their health or temperament. We got our dog from a pet store that buys animals from breeders that need to find them homes and other older dogs that need homes also. They don't sell pure-breds (very rarely) as they want to help the animals who really need it. If you do want a dog that is cheaper, like I said, find another breed or go to the SPCA where the animal actually NEEDS a loving home and a better life. They will love you just as much and still be an excellent pet in most cases.
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  #25  
Old August 11th, 2007, 09:54 AM
budboybudboy77 budboybudboy77 is offline
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Exactly Sevin and if anyone reading this needs a volunteer for helping to close these puppy mills I'm there.

Thks
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  #26  
Old August 11th, 2007, 10:38 AM
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Repeat after me:

Breed Rescue. Breed Rescue. Breed Rescue.

And yes, sometimes they do get young dogs.
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  #27  
Old August 11th, 2007, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
Thank you Pitgrrl, very well said I don't know where the OP got this idea !
I second that!

Probably the most predictable dog is an older dog that you've spent some time with and has been evaluated properly!

You never know when you pick up that 2 or 3 month old pup, what his or her future personality will be like, despite your best efforts at training.
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  #28  
Old September 26th, 2007, 09:44 AM
hdme hdme is offline
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Just because your neighbor has a well behaved, wonderful dog doesn't mean that you will get the same when selecting a dog of the same breed. We have an Aussie who is very well behaved. We took her to obiedence classes so that we could learn how to work with her and make all of our lives happy and fun. Our neighbors loved our dog, so they got an aussie and even though they went to the same obeidence classes we went to, their dog is not very well behaved. He escapes from their house, jumps all over people and does not do much of anything on command. If you were to meet him, you would probably not think too highly of the breed, but when people meet our dog, they fall in love with her and the breed. It just goes to show that two dogs of the same breed can be very different.
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  #29  
Old September 28th, 2007, 07:04 PM
jillfarm jillfarm is offline
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Rescues are a good choise. Also seniors papers etc.

As far as the price a breeder charges, yes, as hard as it is for people to understand it is justified. I have 3 springers and breed them. ALL of my dogs have had their hips tested, eyes are done yearly and I have insisted any dog I breed has good genetics in his ancestry. It all costs big bucks. Also, any breeder worth his salt will insist that a dog be returned to them if there is a problem keeping them, ANY TIME IN THEIR LIFE. This takes all the pressure off rescue organizations. I would be there in a minute if ever one of my dogs needed a home. It has happened and all have been placed in good homes, are loved and wanted. All my dogs are sold on non-breeding contracts. My bred dogs cost twice what a pet costs. So you think it is expensive to buy a pet, double it at least and you will have the cost of a breeding dog. Never mind the costs of showing and promoting a dog. Or importing a dog from another country. People that breed specific dogs are also educated in the health problems prevelant in the breed and have bred accordingly. Eg, never breeding a dog with dysplacia. Usually this cannot be checked till the dog is finished growing so the dog must be raised till over 2 then checked for hip problems. If found then this dog is placed. And it could be a minor fault, not one that could ever cause a problem, but one that the breeder does not want to chance in their lines. If you are looking for a good breeder, with good credentials go the the Canadian Kennel club or ask your local vet. Also, look in CKC's bible for breeders, "Dogs Annual" most libraries have copies and the new one comes out in November. Also, RESCUE, RESCUE, RESCUE!
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  #30  
Old September 28th, 2007, 08:12 PM
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satchelp satchelp is offline
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Going to the Canadian Kennel Club does in no way guarantee that the breeder will be a good one. The best way to ensure a breeder is compliant with some rules and ethics is to get a referral from the national or regional breed club for a specific breed.
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