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  #1  
Old May 30th, 2007, 09:28 PM
~michelle~ ~michelle~ is offline
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the last couple of days

ok i really dont want to start another one of those threads but i honestly feel in the matter of days this forum went from being a pro/spay neuter, anti designer breed, and responsible pet ownership group to something that resembles the complete opposite.
i know this thread will probably get closed and i dont want to start a debate but rather make a request of all the members.
i at one point in time thought labradoodles we're an ok thing, however i learned. and thats the point i think i am trying to make, I came here to learn and have recieved invaluable information that has made me a better pet owner and ultimately my dogs are happier.
many people come here with questions presenting themselves as wanting to learn something but when the discussion continues it turns in to something completely different, they feel the need to argue. please dont ask questions if you are going to argue every point thats different as yours, youve already made up your mind why ask the question. I am all for appropriate debate, but no silly highschool games please
I havent agreed with everything someone has told me but i listen carefully and try to learn, some of the people here just seem to ask questions just to start debate
I am also very upset with the small jabs people are making in their threads about other members that are very obvious
I guess what i am trying to say is can we please get back to the way it was a board of openess, honesty and a true love for trying to help and educate other members in the best way to take care of their pets.
You may not agree with what everyone says but many members have valid points please try to respect that and if one thread turns in to an arguement can we leave it in one thread, many threads i open i am seeing arguements rehashed, it is upsetting and is ruining the initial spirit of the board
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  #2  
Old May 30th, 2007, 09:56 PM
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Well you know what ? I've been reading about breeding and breeding from some of the newbies, and no , I am not ok with that s***, and I will post my opinion if I feel like it. Not a good feeling on this board , well tough. Do you know how many times I get a call on friday morning from a shelter / or owners , saying this dog will be put down if we can't take him/her into our rescue ? Or if I can help with this or that dog , because , again , it will be put down soon. So no , I am not ok what that BYB thing . I am not ok with people who come here asking why their pregnant dog is bleeding or leaking whatever stuff because they are too cheap to bring their dogs to a vet. So if I feel like replying to one of these threads, and am not too friendly with these people , that's my freakin right.
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  #3  
Old May 30th, 2007, 10:08 PM
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It's too bad that some of you feel attacked, but if you read the news about all the raids on puppy mills and the treatment of animals and the poor breeding done by backyard breeders before you decide to get a designer breed from a petshop or defend the byb mentality, you would understand why so many people here, especially the ones who are very involved in rescue groups feel as strongly as they do. The poor animals that survive these establishments, quite often end up in rescue. It's a never ending cycle so it seems. Getting a dog or a cat should be a very well thought out idea, and purchasing an animal from a pet store or a byb is not going to be well thought of by any informed, educated person.

Cindy
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Old May 30th, 2007, 10:35 PM
~michelle~ ~michelle~ is offline
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im more posting on the regular members side (sorry to any of you that does offend) but thats what i mean when i say many people have experience. i myself have rescue dogs i could never bring myself to purchase even from a reputable breeder at the moment because i know of the number of well derserving animals that need homes. so reckless breeding upsets me as well (alot)

what i find most frustrating is that no matter how many ways people have said something certain people refuse to listen. i dont expect everyone to change their opinions overnight but please if your going to ask for an opinion (its why you posted on an open forum in the first place) expect several answers and some you may not like but if you dont like what someone has to say you should still consider where they are coming from

i thought people are here to learn and educate, but that seems to have disappeared. i understand debates get heated it happens ive been involved with a few myself. but i have when people are constantly trying to justify an ill educated opinon when there are several here that can educate you
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  #5  
Old May 31st, 2007, 01:07 AM
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Wink "KEEP IT KIND!"...re: BB strife...

:sad: I'm sorry to read of the recent 'difficulties' re: widely differing opinions, some bad feelings going around. Guess I missed this state of contretemps due to assimilating another cat (my ill sister's), and being bossed around by my pony 24/7...never should have given her my pager #!!

Anyhoo, I'm a definite s/n advocate and am not thrilled with breeding critters when there are so many unwanted ones already (horses may not end up at the SPCA in great numbers, but there are a lot of private/non-profit equine rescuers around...seems too many people breed horses for no good reason, just as with cats/dogs).

I'm not a big-time regular poster, but I imagine most regular types would know my basic critter philosophy by now; I'm also not nuts about conflict (grew up in a partially TOXIC family, and had my quota of um, screaming meanies), so I try to express myself in as even-handed manner as possible...I know, "cluckcluck".

In the year or so that I've been on this BB, I have really been impressed with how supportive and kind the vast majority of people are. My first BB experience was with a horse-related one; it is pretty well moderated, I guess, but so often it left a bad 'aftertaste', what with many members being quite chippy/snarky.

THIS BB has provided such a contrast...I've learned a lot, received a ton of support for which I am eternally grateful, and it simply is an overall very positive part of my life. Life is always going to consist of different people with different points of view; I'd just like to urge everyone to treat each other with respect, and remember that the bottom line is hopefully a mutual love of critters.

I need this BB to be the NICE place it is for me, and many other members. There's enough 'sturm und drang' in this ol' world without us creating more!! I'm no idealistic Pollyanna-type (although I have yet to do hard time in a federal pen)...I'd just hate to have my haven-of-sorts to become an icky place. If you really want to butt heads, look up some horse people (okay, cheap shot...there are lots of terrific equine enthusiasts!)!!

Peace out, guys!
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  #6  
Old May 31st, 2007, 01:27 AM
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I've been a member for at least a few months now and I've noticed this attitude from the beginning. I was kind of surprised by the lack of healthcare talk as I'm used to horse forums where we can discuss anything from emergencies to terminal illnesses. I understand that the forum doesn't want to be held liable for anything, so of course it's always best to advise someone to see a vet first. So I was okay with that. But lately the board has become overrun with certain posters who have a standard reply for each issue and will become blatantly rude and ignorant if anyone disagrees with their point. I have been rudely attacked by members of this board and sometimes I wonder why I bother coming back. It's very informative and I love the info that we receive here and the fact that we're all here because of our love for and interest in animals.

Of course I'm not condoning indiscriminant breeding, but a poster asked a question about a dog's heat cycle and was told to have that dog spayed by probably 5 different posters. Umm.. why not just answer the question AND politely ask if the dog is being kept entire for breeding purposes? Or why not have a POLITE line in the signature that states your view on spaying and neutering? Why do we have to be so ugly to each other?

Frenchy, I respect you and I love that you obviously live for animals and want to make a difference in this world. However, swearing and attacking people doesn't make things any better. People generally become defensive and are even more likely to ignore your advice when you come off in such a hostile manner. Maybe you don't feel that it's your responsibility to politely and professionally educate other pet owners out there. In a way I agree. Who says that we, the dog and cat lovers, should be responsible for taking in the strays and unwanted animals and educating the ignorant? Well, no one of course. But our knowledge, beliefs, and passion for animals gives us a great opportunity to teach others and to share what we're already doing. Why not leave the criticisms out and either help out or bite your tongue?

I bet that this board has scared away quite a few people who could have learned a lot. Every person who comes on here to learn is a person who could safe the life of a sick or injured animal and get a pet spayed or neutered. But every time we "yell" at a person or belittle them we are only hurting ourselves and these animals that we're trying to save.
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  #7  
Old May 31st, 2007, 05:52 AM
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coppperbelle coppperbelle is offline
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the last couple of days

As a rescue person I will have to agree with Frenchy. The calls we get and the ridiculous reasons people give us for abandoning an animal are never ending. People own dogs for 9 years and all of a sudden it has a slight health issue which they can't be bothered to treat and they want us to take their dog...yesterday. Yes, that can make a person testy. Try taking your job home with you and doing it 24/7. I get e-mails daily and phone calls at all times of the day and night from people wanting to surrender an animal. I spend hours making arrangements and then the person will inform us that we were too late and they euthanized it.
The truth is that people do not want to hear what we have to tell them whether it be said nicely or sarcastically. They argue because they have their heart set on a Morkie or Labradoodle and when someone says that these so called breeds are no more than mutts they get offended and buy it anyways. I work with someone who was looking for a dog. When she told me I gave her some suggestions where she could get one and also told her what kind of dog seller to avoid. She ignored everything and bought from a puppy mill. She got herself a labrador mixed with a Bernese because they are suppose to be good with kids. I was so annoyed with her that I just walked away and said nothing. I have another co-worker that will not agree with me that puppies in the pet shops come from mills. She had an accidental litter once and gave her pups to a pet shop so that means that not all their puppies are from mills. Can I convince her otherwise, nope, she doesn't want to hear it.
And don't get me started on spaying/neutering. If I hear one more person tell me that they have homes for all their puppies. What they don't realize is that their pups will be taking homes away from others that may be in shelters or with a rescue groups.
What is obvious to me and others who are knowledgeable on the subject is that thousands upon thousands of animals are euthanized daily because there are no homes for them. Those that breed their animals so that their kids can see the miracle of birth or want to make a few extra bucks are responsible for these deaths. Yes, so maybe we are sarcastic or angry in our responses but have you seen the pictures of the Great Dane's that were rescued earlier in the year. They were left in a barn with no heat, food or water. This was a puppy mill reality. Who sat up with these dogs nursing them back to health, a rescuer. Eveytime you buy a pup from a pet shop or from a broker you are encouraging people like this to continue doing what they are doing. If you were a true animal lover you would think twice and take the information you are given whether it be said angrily or in kindness and make an informed decision.

As the saying goes, "if you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen"

Last edited by coppperbelle; May 31st, 2007 at 05:55 AM.
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  #8  
Old May 31st, 2007, 06:11 AM
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Great points by everyone here!! And that's exactly what I think Michelle means. everyone has a say, but try and keep it respectful, no one is going to listen to someone who is talking down to them.

I think this board is going through some changes at the moment, and when the dust settles, and things calm down, things will get better, some people get edgy.snippy during times of change, so I think that's what's happening right now.

This was the first forum I had ever joined (I was a BB virgin when I first came here ) And I have seen good and bad times, I have seen great respectful posts and horrible mean, nasty ones too.
I have seen many people come and go, some I think "good riddance", but others it's with sadness.
I guess that's what boards do, they evolve, I guess we're just going through a bit of an evolution period right now.
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Last edited by happycats; May 31st, 2007 at 06:16 AM.
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  #9  
Old May 31st, 2007, 06:43 AM
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Hunter's_owner Hunter's_owner is offline
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I have to agree with everything Michelle said as well. Thank You Michelle for posting that.
To any newbies that read this, please understand that when you post something, whether it is a question or a statement, you have to be prepared to someone responding with a different opinion than what you have. Most people here try to give advice for the well-being of the animals, so recognize that this is where they are coming from. They are not trying to be mean and start an argument, just saddened from all the animals that need help every single day.

So again, please consider other opinions rather than take things as a personal attack
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Old May 31st, 2007, 07:44 AM
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chico2 chico2 is offline
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Good posts everyone,including Frenchy
If this was a perfect world,ALL breeding should stop,be it cats/dogs or whatever,until all shelters are empty.
Everyone should have a stint working at a shelter,try to ease the pain of abandonment in a dog or cat,see the sadness in their eyes,to understand.
The animals are helpless victims,not understanding why they are caged,so why bring more unhappiness by breeding more..:sad:

As for tempers flaring,this is my second Forum,I used to belong to a Political Forum,talk about heated debates
To me this is still a great place,I avoid some threads,especially the Dog-food thread,which I know nothing about anyway.
What happened here this week,will pass,it's too bad people felt they had to leave,but this Forum will remain the one place I enjoy beeing a member of.

KK,don't despair a couple of people have left,but we will still remain the same,so please continue your very entertaining posts
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  #11  
Old May 31st, 2007, 08:39 AM
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marko marko is offline
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As one of the Admins, I always want things to be civil...which is difficult on a board so passionate.

We understand both points of view in this thread.

And STILL we always prefer non rude answers (or silence) regardless of the kind of day the poster (sometimes a rescuer, sometimes not) has had.

The majority of rude answers would NEVER EVER EVER be told to another person's face. But because this is the Net, some people feel it's okay to be rude. Some people feel that their terrible day (whether they are in rescue or not) justifies rudeness toward a new or older member with much less knowledge.

Rudeness doesn't accomplish anything except getting tempers to flare even more. It doesn't educate. It closes the learning process.

We would ask (again) as per my personal signature that members that feel really upset - take a breath and pretend they are TALKING to that person.
Or just ignore them.

Personally, before Dave and I started this forum, I didn't know much about many topics such as BSL and BYB and puppy mills. The generosity and altruism of many members has prompted me to become an SPCA volunteer, and so now I regularly see some of what he rescuers see. Because of the knowledge I've gained, I, and many members are far more educated on these hot topics and now we can help spread that information and help change things (even if it's only a little bit).

We want members to say EXACTLY how they feel. We just want them to do so POLITELY. That's how we learn.

If you feel a thread breaks the rules - please PM an Admin with the URL and post number(s) in question so that we can take a look.

Thanks...we just want everyone to all get along as best as we can.

Marko
ADMIN

Thanks as always for your help.
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  #12  
Old May 31st, 2007, 09:19 AM
Furbaby Momma Furbaby Momma is offline
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What a wonderful post, Marko.

I also like your signature, we all do things better when we know better.

Educate with kindness, and take into concideration at all times of where the poster is coming from...post pictures that bring smiles to us animal lovers, educate members of different food choices available. Hold our heads up high knowing that today we helped a member realize the importance of spaying and neutering, how bringing the pet to see a vet is what is the best advice towards a member asking what they should do.

A lot of people don't know what a BYB is or a Puppy Mill so lets try and help the new member who just bought there new puppy from a pet store. With our wisdom we can help the member to make a better choice in the future and they in return can help educate another person to not buy a puppy from a pet store or a BYB.

We are all here as members, because we love our pets!
from a happy member of pets.ca,
Furbaby Momma
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  #13  
Old May 31st, 2007, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coppperbelle View Post
Those that breed their animals so that their kids can see the miracle of birth or want to make a few extra bucks are responsible for these deaths.
So , so true Coppperbelle. :sad:
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  #14  
Old June 1st, 2007, 02:30 AM
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Thanks, Murlock. I get kind of wordy, but I try to get my point across..
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Old June 1st, 2007, 10:51 AM
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Kristin7 Kristin7 is offline
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Quote:
Well said. I wish I had your way with words. Thank you for your input, it is what I have been feeling but unable to express.
Yes, that goes for me too. I really believe more people will listen and be open to learning if the approach taken with them is not rude or combative or the like. All of them will not listen, no matter what approach is taken. It may not be the easiest thing to do, to hold back anger and frustration, but in the end the causes you work for will benefit more if you can.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 11:48 AM
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i_have_too_many i_have_too_many is offline
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When I joined this forum I felt welcome right away, I thought everyone was very nice and came from some different and interesting backgrounds, breeder, rescuer, or just animal lover. I posted responses to a few questions that I have had experience with, and I got burned by others on this site. I was shocked! I mean everyone has had a time in their life when maybe they made a bad or miss-informed decision and needed a little advice or help, which was what I was trying to provide. Just because I am answering someone's question does not mean that I approve of the action, but what is done is done, help them fix it, help them learn to avoid a repeat, and move on.

I am a strong believer in giving people the benefit of the doubt and not judging people untill I know the whole story. So if someone posts about having a dog who is pregnant what should they do? give them a few tips if you have any, suggest close contact with a vet, offer help in finding homes for the resulting pups, and tell them to have the dog fixed to avoid another situation. Being told by half a dozen people they are foolish and should have the dog fixed asap will only scare them off and the result will probably be a sick dog, pups and no future spay scheduled.

My mother always told me "you catch more flys with honey than with vinegar."
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Old June 1st, 2007, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mmurlock View Post
I am willing to listen to any advice anyone has....I just dont want to argue. Also I can see that this is a sensitive subject on this board and would like to point out that I havent posted any threads asking questions, I have only responded to questions asked of myself.
I'm sorry mmurlock but this isn't true. I believe this was you're first question / thread on the board and it was quite a "doozy" frankly. And it did in fact stir the pot up to quite a boil as I recall in this and other threads.

Please Help me with my maltese

Hi Im really strapped for money and cant possibly afford to take my little maltese into the vet, but I am so worried about him and need help. About three nights ago he started wheezing, which he has done in the past but this is different sounding, very mucousy, like his nose is stuffed. He also had very mucousy feces (it looked as though there my have been a little string of mucousy blood wrapped around the feces), which seems to have gone away. Whats wrong with him, is this a cold that will pass? I have another puppy in the house. Is this contagious...I dont want her catching this too because like i said I cannot afford a vet!

I am not easily offended nor quick to anger but in situations where I do find a post angers me because of irresponsible behaviour I find it best to step back from my initial reply and look to ways to rewrite so that I can put the same information across without an undercurrent of anger. I also suggest the same for people posting. If a reply angers you, perhaps you need to look at the way you have framed your question or the way you have justified your behaviour/ actions not taken.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 01:13 PM
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LynLyn LynLyn is offline
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I have always felt welcomed on this board from the very beginnning. I came onto this board naive and clueless. I had no idea how important spay and neuter was and couldn't tell you what a puppymill was if I was standing in the middle of one. For me it was the passionate and blunt (yes blunt) answers that taught me. I did not take offense to any of it, but understood the bluntness and even the slight rudeness for seriousness. Now that I've done my research and learned, I can understand the passion and frustration of hearing certain questions over and over and over again. Sometimes it takes that kind of passion to teach.

Just my

Lyn
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Old June 1st, 2007, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_have_too_many View Post
When I joined this forum I felt welcome right away, I thought everyone was very nice and came from some different and interesting backgrounds, breeder, rescuer, or just animal lover. I posted responses to a few questions that I have had experience with, and I got burned by others on this site. I was shocked! I mean everyone has had a time in their life when maybe they made a bad or miss-informed decision and needed a little advice or help, which was what I was trying to provide. Just because I am answering someone's question does not mean that I approve of the action, but what is done is done, help them fix it, help them learn to avoid a repeat, and move on.

I am a strong believer in giving people the benefit of the doubt and not judging people untill I know the whole story. So if someone posts about having a dog who is pregnant what should they do? give them a few tips if you have any, suggest close contact with a vet, offer help in finding homes for the resulting pups, and tell them to have the dog fixed to avoid another situation. Being told by half a dozen people they are foolish and should have the dog fixed asap will only scare them off and the result will probably be a sick dog, pups and no future spay scheduled.

My mother always told me "you catch more flys with honey than with vinegar."
I second this, if I posted a concern of mine, whether or not it was viewed as a "silly question" or plain stupidity by someone else, it's still a concern of mine. I agree we need to fight ignorance with information, when a question is asked an answer should be given, on the other hand I feel the pain and frustration of the folks on here who fight for animal rights everyday, people should be told about byb, puppy mills, nutrition, spay/nutering, etc and an offer to help out via pm would be better then belittling the question.

I know way more now then I did 8 months ago but I still don't post questions that I want answers to for fear of judgmental responses, you post too much info, you get jumped on, you post too little and a zillion assumptions are made. To be honest, I didn't want to even post this but I thought what the heck, eveyrone else is posting their feelings, I also think alot of people are not so great on the computer, typos and poor grammer make for hard reading and responding! ha!

Have a good day everyone! And thank you for all the useful info and advise given to me over the last few months, I really do appreciate it!
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Old June 1st, 2007, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynLyn View Post
I have always felt welcomed on this board from the very beginnning. I came onto this board naive and clueless. I had no idea how important spay and neuter was and couldn't tell you what a puppymill was if I was standing in the middle of one. For me it was the passionate and blunt (yes blunt) answers that taught me. I did not take offense to any of it, but understood the bluntness and even the slight rudeness for seriousness. Now that I've done my research and learned, I can understand the passion and frustration of hearing certain questions over and over and over again. Sometimes it takes that kind of passion to teach.

Just my

Lyn
Great post LynLyn
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Old June 1st, 2007, 01:41 PM
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thanks
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Old June 1st, 2007, 01:56 PM
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To Frenchys first post! MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY,.my dog is leaking smelly stuff,or what not ,come one,well Frenchy your first post said it all THANK YOU.And to mumumumumum-also exactly what i was thinking about that,i mean some of these stories dont add up and yeah can get really upsetting when someone comes here and uses that famous saying 'I HAVE NO MONEY FOR VET" icant recall how many times i have heard that,you know i am not saying mmurlock you arent for real,but if your parents can buy you a foozball table,why wouldnt they help you pay for a vet knowing how much your animals mean to you.It is just nuts.
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  #23  
Old June 1st, 2007, 02:26 PM
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CyberKitten CyberKitten is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Brunswick - Nova Scotia
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I always try to treat everyone with respect and integrity - in the same way I myself would want to be treated. or the most part, that is how I see the Board and I have met some wonderful people here. If I can help someone , I do it but if I see a post that is asking something I consider absurd, I prob will not say that to them and using an example of a byb who is seeking help with say new kittens, I do give them advice but also suggest they see a vet. I am not a vet - just someone with a lot of people medical knowledge which is not the same thing and does not always cross over and mega cat and some dog and lots of bunny experience! If someone is nasty to me, I try to hold my clicking fingers on the keyboard but sometimes I get my Irish up so to speak and will say what I think - in the most polite way that I can possibly do so.

I loathe threads and posts that are impolite and nasty. I know that I myself can be sensitive but when it comes to the health of pets, sometimes there is no such thing as oversensitive, I often find we get into debates over side issues or irrelevant subjects re the issue at hand. And I am as guilty as the next person when I continue it and sometimes I get so frustrated that I forget and do that! So, I am well aware of my weaknesses but I do try my best and that is all we can ask of anyone - that and please be polite and kind!

You know that poster (from the book of the same name)- I used to have it in my office - Everything I know I learned in Kindergarten, I think that is not a bad code of conduct for a bulletin board. In case you forgot it, here it is:

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.
These are the things I learned:

* Share everything.
* Play fair.
* Don't hit people.
* Put things back where you found them.
* Clean up your own mess.
* Don't take things that aren't yours.
* Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
* Wash your hands before you eat.
* Flush.
* Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
* Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.
* Take a nap every afternoon.
* When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.
* Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
* Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
* And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you are, when you go out in the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.
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  #24  
Old June 1st, 2007, 03:02 PM
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heidiho heidiho is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Maui,Hawaii
Posts: 4,348
I will just do what you said in pm and stay away from your threads.
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