Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog training - dog behavior

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:35 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
Breker - please watch the p's and q's with me being an owner of an 'aggressive' dog. I have a tempermental dog whom I REMOVE from situations that are disruptive or can initiate problems in these types of settings. You may or may not know this - I am very well versed when it comes to behaviours so let's get that straight.

Bendyfoot, my point is this: dogs that act inappropriately in this type of settings should be addressed. People with small dogs are more defensive about them (probably due to their size) and will not listen to those that have larger breeds - it seems to ALWAYS be the fault of the larger breed and not the smaller ones. It is not fair I understand.

What small dog owners do not seem to get is that their small dog's behaviour can spark negativity within a group of dogs and the small dog will get hurt - not the big dog.

When I had my large breeds I was very well aware that people do not take responsibility for their small dogs as they should. The solution was to remove mine in order to avoid any confrontation with a smaller breed which would LOOSE in a BIG way. Does any of this make any sense at all?

If you all read my comments properly, I am with the OP on this one.
I agree with you, but I would say something to the owner and you wouldn't which is unfortunate IMO. I now understand clearly that you would avoid this situation because you are a SMART dog owner which is fabulous. We both agree the Yorky owner is not. Perfect.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:38 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
my mistake deleted
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:39 AM
Macomom's Avatar
Macomom Macomom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: somewhere near the Nation's capital
Posts: 1,162
BenMax, we are on the same page. (sorry, long post)

My original intent was to better understand I if the Yorkie in question was being dominant or if the owner was correct about this dog being very fearful...
I would not want to make any person uncomfortable, so I took the owner at their word and continuously removed my dog.
Boswell, who was reading this situation differently, thought playing with the Yorkie would be great! The Yorkie kept returning so the Yorkie must have been engaged with some kind of pay off as well...

In this case do I ignore the owner who was uncomfortable?

I have the big dog, and I agree the situation was unfair. To make it worse, there were many small dog owners there, so I perceived the situation to be more dramatic than it needed to be.
The Yorkie owner should realize that she has an dominant little dog. Instead, I think she is ignorant about what her dog is saying to the big dogs.

As a dog owner, I think I may have to learn to be a bit more assertive and a little less defensive.
My previous Rottie, Edina, was literally attacked by a Papillion who scooted under a fenced in a city park enclosure where Iwe were dog doing some off leash commands. The Papillion was following a ball, and literally went at my dogs throat. It was made even worse when my dog shook her off, pinned her to the ground and growled at her. The Papillon ran away crying and the owner who did not see the situation yelled at me.
I told her that she was lucky my dog was well trained and the situation had not escalated. My dog did not put her teeth on the other dog.
I am now cautious of small dogs, and cautious of protective dog owners.

BenMax, maybe I need the behaviourist...lol.
__________________
My family includes:
Darby Rottie
Boswell Dogue de Bordeau
Harvey the English Bulldog Extraordinaire
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:43 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
I guess my question would be, "was the yorkie really acting 'inappropriately' for a dog-dog type of interaction". My second question would be, if this was another DDB or a Rott or a Mastiff and not a yorkie, would people be as concerned about the interaction?

I dunno, I understand the potential for risk of injury for the smaller dog, even if the larger dog acted completely appropriately and non-aggressively to correct the smaller one for its rudeness.

I guess I just object to the idea that the owner of the bigger dog should automatically have to remove her well-behaved dog for the sake of optics. Part of me, honestly, thinks "let the DDB thump the little snot", if it really truly was being a brat and not just engaging in boistrous play. So on that line, unless the owner of the little one felt their dog was in danger, I don't really think the little one should be automatically removed either.
To answer the first question: Yes the yorkie was acting inappropriately because he/she was aggrevating the situation with the DDB. Having a small dog 'now' I actually get it. The little dog should have been diciplined for the continuous aggrivation when the poor DDB was told to not engage. If it were another large breed - yes again as I do not believe in 'sorting things out'. From experience, this back fired on me big time with my GSD that got so aggitated that he almost killed an annoying labrador (I am wiser because of this incident).

And I agree 100% - the big dog owner should remove their dog if the little dog owner is stupid enough to let their ill mannered little buggers to continue. It just seems like the safer thing to do don't you think?

And Bendyfoot - who would loose in court if the big dog reacted? Really, let's be logical.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:46 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
I've been in your shoes many times and is yet just another example of a incapable dog owner. That Papillion should have a muzzle, and never be let off leash, and even be put down. For those who think that sounds crazy, need to think about it longer. Would a dog weighing 20 lbs be put down? How about 50lbs, what about 100lbs. To me size makes NO difference.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:52 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by brecker View Post
I've been in your shoes many times and is yet just another example of a incapable dog owner. That Papillion should have a muzzle, and never be let off leash, and even be put down. For those who think that sounds crazy, need to think about it longer. Would a dog weighing 20 lbs be put down? How about 50lbs, what about 100lbs. To me size makes NO difference.
Brecker - I don't think the Papillion should be put down at all - honestly.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:55 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
Brecker - I don't think the Papillion should be put down at all - honestly.
Ya that's possibly stirring the pot a little too much. But would a Pit Bull be put down? Just cause the little guy was incapable of hurting the Rotty, does that give him the green light? Where do we draw the line?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:55 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
Ok, rightly or wrongly, obviously the popular perception would be that the big dog/owner is "at fault", simply because of the size difference.

And don't get me wrong, I'm totally not saying that dog owners should let their dogs get away with murder...if your GSD was agitated to the point of aggression towards the other dog then yeah, intervention would have been appropriate. It sounds like in the OPs case her DDB was actively wanting to engage with/play with the yorkie and was not exhibiting signs of being aggravated (pls correct me if I'm wrong).

The OPs story about the papillon illustrates well the difference between a dog being an annoying pest (the yorkie) and a dog being truly aggressive (the pap).

Macomom, to answer your questions, NO you should not ignore the anxious behaviour of the other owner. If someone is uncomfortable with your dog (even if the dog is just existing) then you remove your dog. If, however, the other owner is comfortable with the interaction I would not see a reason to get involved unless the message from one of the dogs was either true aggression or obviously escalating to that point. There is a clear difference (IMO) between posturing and true aggressive behaviour.

In this case, if the other owner thought her dog was afraid, she should have removed her dog, that was HER responsability, not yours.

I still object in principle to the OP having to take away her dog, who was playing. I don't understand why the yorkie owner wouldn't have removed her dog if she was honestly that concerned.
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:56 AM
Macomom's Avatar
Macomom Macomom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: somewhere near the Nation's capital
Posts: 1,162
Most people are intimidated by black and tan, or by an angular jaw- lol, I am developing a little white dog complex.
__________________
My family includes:
Darby Rottie
Boswell Dogue de Bordeau
Harvey the English Bulldog Extraordinaire
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:58 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by brecker View Post
Ya that's possible stirring the pot a little too much. But would a Pit Bull be put down? Just cause the little guy was incapable of hurting the Rotty, does that give him the green light? Where do we draw the line?
LOL - that is a whole new thread but I get where you are going. Something tells me Brecker you are going to fit in just great here!
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old July 29th, 2009, 09:58 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by brecker View Post
Ya that's possible stirring the pot a little too much. But would a Pit Bull be put down? Just cause the little guy was incapable of hurting the Rotty, does that give him the green light? Where do we draw the line?
Pit, Pap, I don't care the breed, it's irrelevant.

We draw the line only after it's been determined that the dog is incurably unstable. My dog has attacked other dogs in the past. Why? Owner/handler error. I know a lot more about dog behaviour now than I did them. 99.9% of dog "misbehaviour" is caused by their people, not the dog.

We didn't put our dog down, we sought a behaviourist/trainer.
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:07 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
If someone is uncomfortable with your dog (even if the dog is just existing) then you remove your dog.
NO! Why? They should leave the park not you! This is silly. It's not your fault - it's their issue.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:15 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
I think that if someone says "your dog makes me uncomfortable" and they don't take the initiative to leave themselves, then you, as a responsible dog owner and a rational person, should remove your dog. I'm not saying "leave the park", I'm saying move on. Why be confrontational?

Should someone automatically have to move on because of a possible PERCEPTION that their big dog is a threat? No way. But a request to steer clear or a statement of discomfort FROM A PERSON is reason enough to move on.

Do I think the yorkie owner in this case was acting responsibly, no. Do I think the OP was obligated to move her dog "just because" or because of the yorkie's behaviour or because the yorkie owner said their dog was afraid (yet proceded to do nothing about it), no. But if the yorkie owner made a request or stated that THEY were personally not comforatable then yeah, move on.
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:21 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
I think that if someone says "your dog makes me uncomfortable" and they don't take the initiative to leave themselves, then you, as a responsible dog owner and a rational person, should remove your dog. I'm not saying "leave the park", I'm saying move on. Why be confrontational?

Should someone automatically have to move on because of a possible PERCEPTION that their big dog is a threat? No way. But a request to steer clear or a statement of discomfort FROM A PERSON is reason enough to move on.

Do I think the yorkie owner in this case was acting responsibly, no. Do I think the OP was obligated to move her dog "just because" or because of the yorkie's behaviour or because the yorkie owner said their dog was afraid (yet proceded to do nothing about it), no. But if the yorkie owner made a request or stated that THEY were personally not comfortable then yeah, move on.
That's the wrong message in my opinion. Let's leave because they are uncomfortable cause their dog has issues with your perfectly fine animal??

If it was in there kitchen, yes leave
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:23 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
So if you're at a park and a child starts freaking out about your dog (rationally, irrationally or not), you would stand your ground and demand the child leave??? I don't see what that could possibly accomplish.
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:31 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
As long as the parent could make sure the child stays away from my dog, I would make sure I keep my dog a good distance. Who's still at fault here? The parent with the kid who has issues and needs therapy, or the dog and owner who just want to mind their own business?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:38 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
It's not about "fault", it's about doing the right thing.

Trust me I get as annoyed as the next guy when someone makes assumptions about any of my dogs, their intentions, or their behaviour...most of those assumptions are based on feelings/misinformation/lack of experience, not facts. But I would never impose my dog on someone else to prove a point. If the person seems open to discussion/education (always my prefered tactic when dealing with dog-stuff), swell. If not, I'm going to be the bigger person and bow out. It's their loss, not mine. Totally not worth the aggro.

In the situation with the OP (in an attempt to get away from ), she could have tried talking about the interaction between the dogs and the yorkie's behaviour and come to an understanding about what each owner was "OK" with for the interaction between the dogs. If the yorkie person expressed discomfort with the situation, I'd bow out. If they did nothing, I'd allow the interaction to continue.
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old July 29th, 2009, 10:40 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Brecker if you are dealing with an owner that will not acknowledge their dog is behaving which is not appropriate then you REMOVE yourself and the dog from the situation. By argueing with this dog owner that does not identify that their dog is aggitating someone else's - no one wins and you just made an enemy...now YOU and YOUR dog are pegged. Nice.

Let me share something very interesting that happened 2 weeks ago.

A young woman owns two dobermans and was at the dog park where I witnessed everything. These dobies were extremely well trained, seemed very balanced and well behaved. A GSD interrupted the play between these 2 dobies and literally attacked the female. The other dobie grapped the GSD by the neck and brought the dog down to the ground. A small dog owner yelled at the woman with the dobies and started calling HER dogs agressive. I stood up for the dobie lady and told miss busy body to please identify the owner of the GSD (on the cell phone about 3 minutes away from the incident). Now - the dobie lady removed herself and the dogs but did confront the GSD guy about the incident. She has since then returned to the park with her dogs and continues to enjoy the activity however she avoids the GSD and the little dog lady. She did the right thing since the GSD owner does not acknowledge anything that happened.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:11 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
I'm glad you read the situation correctly and stood up for the dobes and their owner I would have done the same thing.

Ha, similar...my neighbour recently got a yorkiepoo ...she also has two adult goldens, one who is the sweetest of sweetie pies in the universe (Daisy). The first time we met little "Sally" (all 2 lbs of her ) last week, she was busy being a puppy, rambling around the yard at our feet, and doing her darnest to get Daisy's attention by jumping on her, pouncing on and chewing her tail, etc. Daisy was patient and would move or just gently nudge the little one out of the way when she got too rough. After about 20 minutes of this, though, Daisy had enough of the tail-chewing, and did a quick air-snap in the direction of the pup. She didn't come even within 4 inches of the pup - who nonetheless scampered off "yike-yike-yike"-ing, much to the horror of her "mum", who immediately turned around and scolded Daisy! I told mum that Daisy was actually doing a great job at being a patient teacher, and that she had done a beautiful job correcting the tyke for overstepping her bounds...and that preventing Daisy from these kinds of interactions could actually hinder some of her socialization. She relaxed then, and we watched as little Sally came bouncing back to Daisy, a little calmer, and left Daisy's tail alone as they ran and played together...dogs can be such great teachers!!!
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:21 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
I speak out when I can - you know me - making friends is not my thing. BenMax has a BIG mouth!
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:23 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
BenMax has a BIG mouth!
No, really???

I don't see it.

__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:26 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
No, really???

I don't see it.

I wonder who has big mouth #3???? (you know who #2 is)
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:26 AM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
Hey I ressemble that accusation
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:28 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
Hey I ressemble that accusation
You don't say...or you do...
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:42 AM
brecker brecker is offline
banned user
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: \
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
Brecker if you are dealing with an owner that will not acknowledge their dog is behaving which is not appropriate then you REMOVE yourself and the dog from the situation. By argueing with this dog owner that does not identify that their dog is aggitating someone else's - no one wins and you just made an enemy...now YOU and YOUR dog are pegged. Nice.
I do see this side and understand. - yes.

However, I am not one to leave an off-leash park to "protect" a little dog with behavioral issues from being put in it's place after I've verbally told the owner (My point is you need to communicate your concern). That may sound a little harsh, but I'm fed up with this type of scenario. You go to an off-leash park with a level headed dog - period. If it's very dominant, or aggressive, keep it on a leash away from other loose dogs - not difficult. Black-and white. (trying to point back to the original OP's issues here) If someone was nervous of my dog - then grab your dog and leave while hopefully realizing that they have the issue, not me in a public park scenario. I appreciate that some people will let other careless owners ruin there day at the park, not me. both sides are correct here. I'm not saying otherwise.

Yes I'm as stubborn as my dog
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old July 29th, 2009, 12:00 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
I hear you but I still need to stress that if the other owner does not budge what do you do? Go heads on and cause a commotion which will not only aggitate others but set a bad tone which can spark the dogs even further.

Stand your ground. You may pay a dear price for it though. As stated before, years ago I did that and it almost cost me my dog. Do whatever you feel is right. That's about all I can say at this point.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old July 29th, 2009, 12:07 PM
Bailey_'s Avatar
Bailey_ Bailey_ is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 1,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by brecker View Post
If it's very dominant, or aggressive, keep it on a leash away from other loose dogs - not difficult. Black-and white. (trying to point back to the original OP's issues here) If someone was nervous of my dog - then grab your dog and leave while hopefully realizing that they have the issue, not me in a public park scenario. I appreciate that some people will let other careless owners ruin there day at the park, not me. both sides are correct here. I'm not saying otherwise.

Yes I'm as stubborn as my dog
First of all Brecker, I'm not really sure you understand that dominance in a dog is not a BAD thing. It's a very normal thing, and many dogs at the dog park are displaying it ALL THE TIME. To say that a dog that is naturally dominant should be on a leash all the time and kept away from other loose dogs is ridiculous. That is exactly how an owner creates a leash-aggressive and frustrated animal.

It's absolutley NOT black and white.

Quote:
And Bendyfoot - who would loose in court if the big dog reacted? Really, let's be logical.
What amuses me about this whole scenario is the fact that when we don't understand or allow our dogs to communicate in a DP with other dogs, learn their place, learn manners from other dogs, be submissive with one dog and dominant with the next; if we're unaware how natural communication happens between two dogs - what it looks like and sounds like - then we will always innterupt our dogs during this natural process, as the OP did because she felt she was doing the right thing.

BUT. When we do that - we are doing MUCH more harm than good.

In the OP's situation with her DDB and the Yorkie, from what she describes, there was absolutley no need to innterupt. Hypothetically speaking, what if the OP continued to run into a string of little dogs over the next month who were vocal and dominant? Because of this one incident with the Yorkie, she may feel inclined to remove her DDB, simply because she isn't aware how normal communication happens - what is okay and what is not.

And when you continue to remove your dog from specific scenario's, THAT is when you can create trouble. The DDB would then be more likely to DO something.

That is why it's so important to understand how your dog communicates, how other dogs communicate, so that you don't need to step in and possibly create a dog who 'anticipates' their owner hurridely calling them away from dominant dogs, which then in turn creates a dog who reacts.
__________________
~B~
"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater. . . suggest that he wear a tail."

Bailey (Labradoodle)
Tippy (Collie/ShepX)
Vali (American Bulldog)
Artiro (Cane Corso)
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old July 29th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Bailey_'s Avatar
Bailey_ Bailey_ is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 1,722
Another point I just want to address is the fact that I don't think the owner Yorkie ever asked the OP to leave with her dog.

However at the DP, even though our dogs may be getting along just fine with another dog, that 'other dog' comes attached to a human being; one of whom may not like us or our dog.

In that case, I agree with Bendyfoot...move along.
__________________
~B~
"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater. . . suggest that he wear a tail."

Bailey (Labradoodle)
Tippy (Collie/ShepX)
Vali (American Bulldog)
Artiro (Cane Corso)
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old July 29th, 2009, 12:19 PM
bendyfoot's Avatar
bendyfoot bendyfoot is offline
Geek Club CEO
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey_ View Post
First of all Brecker, I'm not really sure you understand that dominance in a dog is not a BAD thing. It's a very normal thing, and many dogs at the dog park are displaying it ALL THE TIME. To say that a dog that is naturally dominant should be on a leash all the time and kept away from other loose dogs is ridiculous. That is exactly how an owner creates a leash-aggressive and frustrated animal.

It's absolutley NOT black and white.

What amuses me about this whole scenario is the fact that when we don't understand or allow our dogs to communicate in a DP with other dogs, learn their place, learn manners from other dogs, be submissive with one dog and dominant with the next; if we're unaware how natural communication happens between two dogs - what it looks like and sounds like - then we will always innterupt our dogs during this natural process, as the OP did because she felt she was doing the right thing.

BUT. When we do that - we are doing MUCH more harm than good.

In the OP's situation with her DDB and the Yorkie, from what she describes, there was absolutley no need to innterupt. Hypothetically speaking, what if the OP continued to run into a string of little dogs over the next month who were vocal and dominant? Because of this one incident with the Yorkie, she may feel inclined to remove her DDB, simply because she isn't aware how normal communication happens - what is okay and what is not.

And when you continue to remove your dog from specific scenario's, THAT is when you can create trouble. The DDB would then be more likely to DO something.

That is why it's so important to understand how your dog communicates, how other dogs communicate, so that you don't need to step in and possibly create a dog who 'anticipates' their owner hurridely calling them away from dominant dogs, which then in turn creates a dog who reacts.
Yeah, that.
__________________
Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old July 29th, 2009, 12:25 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey_ View Post
Another point I just want to address is the fact that I don't think the owner Yorkie ever asked the OP to leave with her dog.

However at the DP, even though our dogs may be getting along just fine with another dog, that 'other dog' comes attached to a human being; one of whom may not like us or our dog.

In that case, I agree with Bendyfoot...move along.
Oh gawd, maybe I am not coming across clear (bad 'P' day I guess ). I am trying to say this.

BUT - I am also saying the following as well:

Small dogs are fragile physically. They break. If the DDB was playful, maybe too playful and the little guy was being whatever....you remove the big dog. By removing I mean just walk somewhere else. It is obvious that the little dog owner did not 'get it'. By her not understanding the potential disaster - you move.

I have to tell you, having my biggies I kinda got that from the beginning when it came to small breed owner's ignorance. I did not think I was backing down, I was creating a SAFE enviroment. I mean why be so darn stubborn - it's not worth it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 AM.