Best food for lab and border collie

[atcdoglover]

First post here, I will try to be brief and to the point

I have two dogs
-6 year old border collie, very healthy, not a very picky eater.
-2 year old lab, minor health problems, and surprisingly a bit of a picky eater

So, heres the story.

I fed my border collie a pretty cheap dog food (I thought it was decent, but I was 20 at the time i started) for 4 years, then when I got the lab, the breeder insisted that we feel a brand called "TLC", so we decided to switch the border collie as well. They refused to warranty the health of the dog if we didn't. That frustrated me a lot, because they were getting money from TLC for us buying the food, so they were basically manipulating us to buy TLC by using the health guarantee as bait. Not cool. As soon as I figured out what was going on I started looking into alternatives. I was also pretty unhappy that they were claiming it was a 'local' product (and it was shipped from a local address) but all the information I was able to obtain was that it was being imported.

At this time we started to notice that the lab was developing some flaky skin, and shedding a lot.

So, I decided to try Royal Canin, I put the collie on an 'active' blend, and the lab on their breed specific. That was a cost increase for me of about 30% over the TLC. My lab HATED the RC, to the point of not being very interested in eating it! the collie was fine with it. There was no change in my labs skin/coat issue. Around this time I started at this time supplementing the labs diet with some salmon oil, because I thought it was nutritional issue. I also started looking more a the ingredients, and started to realize that I was paying a fair bit for food that might not have the best ingredients. To RC's credit, I live about 10 minutes from their 'factory', so they are local.

I then decided to try something called 'Holeistic Select' for them, with the oil supplement for the lab. I believe that this was probably the best quality food I have ever fed them. They both seemed to like it, but there was no change in the labs skin/coat.

I took my lab in to the vet for her yearly checkup, and he jumped down my throat about her 'nutritional deficiencies' and wanted me to give her his oil supplements (look identical to mine, but no label, so no idea what they are) and his food (turns out its RC's vet blend). I was a little offended that he didn't talk to me about this, but basically accused me of feeding them crap, however, if the best interest of my dogs, I took the advice. There was no change (except to my bank account)

I took her back for a booster shot, and the vet was surprised to see no difference (I guess if he would have listened to me he would have known) and then wondered if she had a yeast bloom on her skin. Slides confirmed that she has 10X the normal count, so he put her on a medication (as 3$/ pill 2x daily for 30 days... you do the math) Happily, this has seemed to cure the problem. Her skin/coat are 75% better at the 15 day mark... Don't want to think about what its doing to her liver

Soooo, sorry for the life story, but I need to know where I should go from here. I have read that grain free might help prevent this problem from occurring again? I have been recommended to try ACANA grain free, since it seem to satisfy my 'local' requirements, and they have a grain free line. Does anyone have any opinions on that?

A side issue is the ethics of the food. Acana claims that they use 'free-run' chickens, etc, but we all know how much BS those claims usually are. How transparent are these companies? I spend a great deal of time ensuring that the meat I eat is ethical, is there any way I can do that for my dogs, without putting my costs through the roof?

I'm not afraid to pay a premium price, but it chaps me pretty hard when I pay a premium price for a sub-premium product.

Thanks so much.

[Winston]

Welcome! Food issues seem to be the theme of the day today. Ill try to be short ...I also have a lab that when he was younger had the worst problem with skin issues and his coat was awful. He used to get sores on his skin, it was flaky dry etc. I had him on vet food for 6 yrs and it never solved the problem. Then one day someone started to talk to me about pet nutrition and wow! it all made sense! I now have him on Orijen Dog Food. It is 75% meat 25% fruits and veggies, no grains and no by products. It is also human grade ingrediants and that speaks volumes in the dog food world! Once I changed him over everything went away! honestly no joke! everything and for once his poops were normal poops not runny messy stuff...I know sorry to much info! but its so true!
I think Acana is the same company that makes the Orijen but I have heard good things about it.

So I say just bite the bullet go out try one of these and you see for yourself. (Oh and on a side note the Orijen may make your puppy a bit gassy for the first week while it gets used to it! ) or better yet have you considered RAW?

Cindy

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by atcdoglover

A side issue is the ethics of the food. Acana claims that they use 'free-run' chickens, etc, but we all know how much BS those claims usually are. How transparent are these companies? I spend a great deal of time ensuring that the meat I eat is ethical, is there any way I can do that for my dogs, without putting my costs through the roof?

You should seriously look into a raw diet for your pups, as Winston mentioned. It's the only way to truly know the source of the meat, and it can be much cheaper (and healthier) than most commercial pet foods.

[Chris21711]

I have been feeding our dogs Acana for about 2 years now.... Winston is right it is made by the same company as Orijen....Acana has a slightly lower amount of protein but not much and the price difference is negligible. They eat Acana Grasslands, they do not experience gassy episodes, to the contrary, it is a rare occurrence.....Their coats are great, no skin issues at all and never have runny stools.

[cassiek]

Acana is a good dog food. Champion Pet Foods makes both Orijen and Acana. Acana usually has a little less protein than Orijen, thus making it a bit more economical. Some brands of Acana include grain, some do not. Personally if it was me I would stick to their 60-40-0 blend... 60% meat, 40% fruits and vegs, and 0% grains. Best of luck!

[atcdoglover]

Thanks for the info everyone.

I decided to give Acana a try. The shop that I buy it from speaks highly of it, and the company themselves. They also suggested getting the dogs used to all three of Acana's grain free products, and alternating back and forth between them. They claim it can help reduce the chances of your dog becoming allergic, etc.

[rainbow]

The Acana Provincial line is a good choice and I hope your dogs do well on it.

I have been feeding it to my dogs for a while now alternating with Orijen as well. And Champion Pet Foods is an excellent company to deal with.

[cassiek]

atcdoglover,

I think you are making a good choice going with the Acana!

Just a side note about 'free-run' chickens... I work for a major feed company that is located in most of Western and Eastern Canada. I can only speak for BC, AB, and SK myself, but all broiler chickens (chickens raised for MEAT) are free-range... in a sense.

They are not confined to cages, like layer chickens are; but space is limited. 100,000 chickens placed in a barn when they weight 40 grams on their first day of life soon becomes (in an little as 42 days) a bird that weighs up to 2.70 KILOGRAMS. So these birds are STUFFED in there.

I just wanted to clarify. All chickens raised for meat are raised in these conditions, so they are 'free range' but they are packed.

Here's an accurate picture to give you a better idea: http://www.humanefood.ca/images/pages/broiler.jpg

Of course there are people with backyard flocks where the birds are raised outside and have much more room, but the majority of intensive poultry production is as the picture above shows.

I'm not trying to change the topic, just comment on something you mentioned. I am not sure if you even live in Canada, but most of the States is run this way as well.

So yes... their claim that their chickens are 'free-range' is accurate... but probably not how most people imagine it.

[atcdoglover]

Thanks for the replies everyone...so far so good!

cassiek - thanks for your reply, I am indeed in canada, and am familiar with the traditional 'free run' (non caged) practices with non egg laying chickens. I wish there was an option for me to find true 'free run' sourced dog food, but unfortunately I think Im asking a bit much. Right now I am transitioning to the chicken based Acana because that is the closest protein source to what they eat now, but eventually I will probably transition to the fish based to alleviate these concerns.

A while back I took a hard look at how ethical I was being with my food choices, obviously the easy way to change that is to become vegetarian, but that wasn't something I was interested in doing, so I have spend a great deal of time sourcing good ethical meats for myself. For example, I wouldn't ever buy chicken for myself that was raised in that manner... not that I am here to judge anyone else for what they do, but personally I would not. I don't know why It took me so long to clue into the fact that I was feeding two hungry carnivores, and sourcing my own meat ethically wasn't doing much compared with how much they eat!

Im happy that I can buy from a company that is concerned with how the product affects the consumer from both a supply, and production standpoint. I know that it is essentially impossible for Acana to source their chicken from anywhere but these types of farms, so I can't really pass judgment on them when they are doing the best they can.

[cassiek]

And unfortunately, we have moved so far away from backyard flocks that 99% of chicken is raised this way. There are some backyard flocks that still exist, but MOST are for egg-laying (and even those are few and far between... most of my backyard flocks sell locally).

I don't really have an issue with chicken being raised so intensively. It's not ideal, certainly space wise, but it has positive's too. They are in a controlled environment (almost a necessity in this country!), are free-fed, are safe from predators etc. I have a small layer customer (200 chickens) and while the birds do have room to run, there is minimal protection from the elements, predators etc. They quite often have problems with owls, hawks, etc. swooping down and tearing apart chicks and even full-grown birds. I actually see cannabilism occuring more frequently in backyard flocks than in intensive operations. Ultimately, producers are paid on profit per kg, so economically wise it makes more sense for them to grow as many chicken as possible to be the most profitable. If consumers want to see livestock raised with more space, they need to pay for it. However; I believe in the next year or two the Alberta Chicken Board has issued a minimum space requirement for each bird. Up until then, there has been no minimum space requirement for each bird, thus encouraging some producers to really crowd the birds in.

Even a company like Champion Foods (Orijen) that has high moral standards, will still purchase chicken/beef etc. from these intensive operations, both economically wise and to meet the supply. They can not meet the demand for their product using local, free-run sources from backyard flocks.

I personally like the Pacificia (Acana) or 6-Fish (Orijen). Remember though too, that aquaculture is becoming a very strong industry and there are some moral and welfare issues with it too, so even the fish that we eat and in these dogs foods may not be 'ethical' if that makes sense...