Designer Breeds

[clm]

Purebred dogs were indeed bred by cross breeding different types of dogs to achieve the desired traits they wanted. The difference between how these breeds were created and the designer breeds of today is that they wanted to create a dog for a specific purpose. To excel at hunting or herding or carting or pulling sleds. Some even to be nothing more than a sign of aristocricy (sp). They were not bred to make money. The designer dogs of today are being bred by people soley to make money. No one will ever convince me they are trying to create a new better breed, it's purely to fill a niche to supply an ignorant public a dog that's non-shedding, or really cute with a really cutsie pie name to go along with it and to make as much money as possible filling that niche. As long as there are ignorant people willing to pay enourmous sums for these dogs, and as long as pet shops are allowed to sell puppies, this problem is never going to go away.

Cindy

[coppperbelle]

It is really unfortunate but as Prin said the breeders who breed these so called Designer breeders are in it for one thing...money. They make claims that these dogs are non-shedding, hypo-allergenic etc... This is so not true. A puppy can take traits from either parent so if you are mixing a poodle with a cocker spaniel you could end up with the fur of the cocker. The only true non-shedding breed is a stuffed animal. I have had standard poodles and when their fur gets long they too shed. Keeping them groomed helps of course.

The other night I went on Petfinders and did a search for Standard poodles. I don't want one but I wanted to see how many goldendoodles or labradoodles were up for adoption. There were pages of them available from young pups to adult ones.

[mummummum]

Wow ~ did that thread ever get oogly. Interesting how the arguments are pretty much the same today, two years later. My ?

Adopt an older dog. Adopt an older dog. Adopt an older dog.Adopt an older dog.Adopt an older dog.Adopt an older dog...

[glitterless]

I don't think that you can really compare medicine to dog breeding. No, I wouldn't refer someone to an UNreputable breeder, but would I send someone to a good unknown breeder? Sure.

I think that too many so-called "backyard breeders" get a bad rap because they aren't hugely successful and well known. Does that mean that they are bad breeders? No. They could be breeding to standard and giving their dogs excellent care.

I don't really know what the point of the thread is. I always roll my eyes when I see a new breed of dog advertised. I definitely think that a lot of breeders are in it for the money and do not care about bettering a breed or creating a breed that has a purpose. But does that mean that all designer breeds are bad and that anyone new to the game is irresponsible? No.

I just wanted to add that I think that we need to educate our fellow pet owners. We should be promoting responsible breeding instead of shunning our peers. Teach them why vaccines are important, teach them what it means to breed to standard, teach them how to properly care for their dogs. Maybe designer breeders DO lead to a lot of unwanted dogs in shelters, but at the same time there are many irresponsible breeders of purebred papered and unpapered dogs who are breeding for the same unethical reasons.

I think that it's fine to breed for money, but make sure that you have a market of responsible pet owners to sell to and that you are breeding ethically.

[mummummum]

I'm not sure where to begin with your post.

Let's start with "promoting responsible breeding" and educating "fellow pet owners" . With the tens of thousands of dogs on petfinder today and the hundreds of throusands of dogs who are killed world-wide because they are unwanted why would any responsible, thinking individual promote a breeder of designer dogs or papered dogs who is in it "for the money" or a breeder who has no background, no references, no mentor, no titles ?

Why are designer dog back-yard-breeders so loathed here ? Simple, they are selling a product at a very high premium that doesn't exist. There is no such thing as a "best of both breeds" guarantee ~ they are mutts plain and simple. You might get the worst, you might get the best, you might get any combination thereof. And there is nothing remotely possible which could be described as ethical about back-yard-breeders.

[MyBirdIsEvil]

How do you propose breeding designer dogs to "standard"?
A breed standard can only apply to breeds that HAVE a standard.
New breeds can be created reputably but that only happens when breeders that ALREADY use good ethics get together and establish a standard. IF they're reputable, the dogs they use for the breeding program will have already been CERF and OFA certified, and bloodlines and health problems known very far back. These types of breeders shouldn't HAVE to be educated and already have a strong understanding of genetics. Even then it will take YEARS to get this new breed to breed true. In the meantime you don't see these people selling their puppies as designer dogs with cute names at premium prices.

Establishing a standard for your "breed" and then breeding towards that standard doesn't automatically make you an ethical breeder. Putting two breeds together and then giving it a cute name, even if it fits some kind of "standard" that you made up does NOT make you reputable. Even if all your dogs are vet checked and in good health it does NOT make you reputable. Kudos to anyone that takes good care of their dogs, but this is something that ANYONE should do.
No matter how well your dogs are taken care of, putting two dogs together and then calling it a "breed" and charging outrageous prices does NOT make you ethical, it makes you a scam artist.

[glitterless]

I wasn't speaking about designer breeds when I talked about breeding to standard. Obviously you have to have a recognized breed to have a standard to breed to. I was trying to point out that not all dogs in shelters are designer breeds -- there are purebreds and there are also mixed breed dogs that were either unintentionally bred or bred without the designer breed idea in mind. Some idiots just breed X to X to get some puppies. But I do think that if you want to help reduce the # of unwanted animals, you have to look at the entire spectrum. Banning the breeding of labradoodles or whatever the breed of the month is won't necessarily cure the problem.

As for backyard brereding, what is it to you? Do you mean that anyone who isn't a top breeder shouldn't be breeding anything? I should be able to go by a bitch and breed her if I want to. To me a backyard breeder is a small scale breeder. A person with a full-time job who has dogs as a hobby and wants to experience the world of breeding. If this person is smart, they have well trained, vaccinated, papered dogs that they show and market. Those are backyard breeders.

Backyard breeders can also be uneducated fools who make up a breed and sell pups for $1,000 +++. Or they can be fools who buy an expensive bitch and dog and breed them indiscriminately without paying any attention to what they will produce. Papers do not necessarily mean a good dog. IMO breeds are ruined by this type of breeding. Lab A and Lab B don't necessarily make a good Lab C.

Sorry if you guys thought that I jumped in here in defense of designer dogs. I didn't. I read a few things and wanted to reply. I think I was getting off topic and speaking more about breeding in general than these designer dogs.

To mumm, I agree that there are lots of unwanted dogs and other animals across the world and that a responsible person wouldn't want to add to that problem. But then I can twist that around and argue that it's wrong to breed any dogs because the dog population is already so high. To me that's not right. People are going to breed dogs, so I think that we need to help out the responsible breeders who want to preserve and strengthen existing breeds. We're not going to find homes for every dog out there, but we're going to lose established breeds if we're against all breeding.

I also want to add something else.

We're blaming the breeders first and foremost, and while I agree with that, I also think that we need to look at how this breeding is even possible. It's the customers! Their market! If people weren't buying these dogs, no one would be breeding them. There have been designer breeds for years. Yes, I agree that in the last couple of years I've seen more and more ads and I think that the media has a lot to do with that. It doesn't help that Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, and other celebrities are seen carrying their little chihuahuas around in purses. They make dog ownership look glamourous. And if chihuahuas aren't appealing, maybe a cockapoo or some other breed is what people want.

It's a losing battle. Some days I think that dog ownership should be regulated, but at the same time I don't agree with any more government regulation. But if every wannabe dog owner had to take a test or be screened before they were allowed to take a dog home, maybe we wouldn't have a flood of mixed breed, unhealthy dogs out there.

I still think that education is the key. I love how PetsMart works with pet rescues to rehome pets. I think that is a great idea. I also think that we need to do something to combat the public's misconception about pets at shelters. So many people assume that these animals are sick, old, or have behavioural issues. Maybe some do fall into these categories, but you can still find a great friend via adoption.

As responsible pet owners I think that it's up to us in a way to encourage responsible pet ownership. It's great that we're on here discussing issues like overpopulation, and it's great that so many people are involved in rehoming cats and dogs. I think that communication is the key.. if we keep this dialogue open and tell our friends, maybe we can cut back on the #s of dogs that are being bought and bred.

[MyBirdIsEvil]

To me a backyard breeder is a small scale breeder. A person with a full-time job who has dogs as a hobby and wants to experience the world of breeding. If this person is smart, they have well trained, vaccinated, papered dogs that they show and market. Those are backyard breeders.

Having well trained vaccinated papered dogs does not make you a responsible breeder this is only part of it. Showing your dogs does not make you a responsible breeder either.

A responsible breeder has dogs that meet these criteria:
CERF and OFA certified "good" or better. If the parents don't meet these criteria how is the breeder responsible? If the parents don't meet those standards the breeder has NO idea if their dogs hips, heart, eyes, etc. are good enough quality to pass on to their offspring.

Showing/working trials: The dog has proven that it lives up to his breed standard in either conformation or working ability or preferrably both (if applicable) and excels in each. If the dog hasn't done extremely well in either of these, WHAT qualifies it as meeting the breed standard?

And most importantly, the dogs bloodlines should show that the puppies have a high chance of meeting these criteria also.
If I take two dogs, purebred or not, that are physically healthy, excellent behavior, vaccinated, and look good, or have good working ability, and breed them together, there is MUCH less of a chance that I'll get puppies that match these parents than if the parents had good bloodlines in the first place.

A backyard breeder is someone that indescriminately breeds dogs, whether for profit or not, whether purebred or not. Their dogs have not been PROVEN to meet breed standard, they haven't been been proven to be genetically/physically healthy.

No one on here is trying to claim that purebred dogs are better than designer breeds JUST because they're purebred. But a designer breed does NOT meet a breed standard, therefore a breeder of these dogs automatically doesn't meet the above criteria.

I should be able to go by a bitch and breed her if I want to.

Why? And even so, what does that have to do with ethics of breeding designer dogs and backyard breeding in general.

Just about all your other points I completely agree with, but those two I just did NOT get at all.

[glitterless]

The second point that you disagreed with wasn't something that I would actually do. I have no desire to breed any type of dog. What I was referring to was the fact that unless we have regulations that prohibit indiscriminate breeding, we are not going to solve this problem. And if we had such laws in place, I feel that we would be infringing upon peoples rights. Maybe we shouldn't be breeding whatever dog to whatever dog, but do we really want a government telling us what we can and cannot do with our dogs? I don't. IMO they've already jumped in and gone too far.

As for breeding, I agree with you. I agree that a good dog is proven AND well bred. Not simply shown with good bloodlines. Also, the pairing is important. How many breeders know that dog A and dog B will be a good match? I suppose we're really guessing with a lot of it, but a good breeder knows what traits are desirable and which shouldn't be reproduced. I think that a lot of breeds have already been ruined by breeders focusing on one trait.

I think I got way off topic. Maybe my comments weren't meant for the designer dog thread. I still don't think that there is necessarily anything wrong with crossing 2 breeds. I think that good dogs were created this way and that you can sometimes get the best of 2 dogs by pairing 2 different breeds. But I suppose it's really only a good idea in theory. What I don't like about crossbred animals in our world today is that there's really no need for them. I wouldn't go out and create great lab/shepherd Xs because I can go find 10 of them at my local shelter.

I don't agree with people adding to the problem of animal overpopulation. I wish that everyone shopping for a new dog right now would consider a dog from a shelter and avoid all breeders -- good and bad -- because that could make a huge difference.

[CyberKitten]

A backyard breeder is in no way a small scale breeder - please!!! I am sorry but you should do some more research. BYB refers to people who breed dogs who are NOT titled champions and do not follow the accepted standards and protocol of care - both parents have been shown and are champions, the breeder has experience and a mentor (even good breeders need mentors), their vet is on speed dial , and for most of them it is a hobby and a costly one. They are in it for the good of the breed and nothing else!!

Back yard breeders, even well meaning ones, have no business breeding any cat or dog or any animal!!! There are too many unwanted animals being killed in shelters across this country! Even people who for some reason or another have a cat that say becomes pregnant and opt to alllow her to have kittens are cutting it close in my opinion as well - especially if they knew she was pregnant very early on!!

Anyone else is a back yard breeder!

[glitterless]

Guys, please relax. Backyard breeder is a term. It's open to interpretation. Maybe all of you have your pets.ca version of what it means, but different people have different opinions.

I use the term loosely because I realize that different people have different opinions on what it means. By using this term you end up offending a lot of small-scale breeders who are preserving a breed. I agree that certain breeders shouldn't be in business, but I don't think that I'm misusing the term.

CyberKitten, if you had read the rest of my post you would see that I go on to define other aspects of the term.

By using throwing around the term "backyard breeder" you are inadvertently telling people who may be new to the game that anyone who literally breeds dogs in their backyard is a bad breeder. Maybe it's time that we get a little more descriptive with the words that we use. I think I'm the one that brought up backyard breeders. I regret that now.

[m_feng]

This year I got my first leonbergber from a reputable breeder in Vancouver. This kind of dog is expensive and high maintance. For sure the Leo breeders make more money than other breeders but I guess they also invest a lot more than others. Let face it, everyone wants to make some money. In my opinion, having & doing something that you love is not a crime. As long as the designer breeds are done with care, it is O.K. to me. Don't you against people who wear designer clothes? It is the same idea to me. Everyone has different taste and different preference. Just be more positive and enjoy life!

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by m_feng

This year I got my first leonbergber from a reputable breeder in Vancouver. This kind of dog is expensive and high maintance. For sure the Leo breeders make more money than other breeders but I guess they also invest a lot more than others. Let face it, everyone wants to make some money. In my opinion, having & doing something that you love is not a crime. As long as the designer breeds are done with care, it is O.K. to me. Don't you against people who wear designer clothes? It is the same idea to me. Everyone has different taste and different preference. Just be more positive and enjoy life!

I have a job outside of my home, so I don't need to use my dog's uterus to make money.

Every single ETHICAL breeder that I know (and I know quite a few) breeds to IMPROVE the breed and couldn't possibly sell the puppies for enough money to make up for the time and money they have spent making sure that the dogs they breed are actually WORTH breeding.

Sorry, but I have yet to meet or hear about someone who breeds a designer breed who can even begin to guess what genetic issues their dogs might be passing from generation to generation.

[want4rain]

let me start off saying (without getting really into it) i have no strong opinion about indiscriminate dog breeding other than its inhumane to crank out puppies(i can only champion so many things and BYBers arent going to be one of them).... but for those of you who are advocates for pure blood lines and so on.... how do you feel about 40yo women having babies? or people with heart disease? other genetic issues? people with thyroid issues having children??

let me also say this is NOT a reflection of my opinions. please dont flame me for assumed opinions when i havent really stated any. its a question. id like to knwo WHY you advocate only championed, genetic historied (and so on) types of dogs beign breed.

-ashley

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by want4rain

let me start off saying (without getting really into it) i have no strong opinion about indiscriminate dog breeding other than its inhumane to crank out puppies(i can only champion so many things and BYBers arent going to be one of them).... but for those of you who are advocates for pure blood lines and so on.... how do you feel about 40yo women having babies? or people with heart disease? other genetic issues? people with thyroid issues having children??

let me also say this is NOT a reflection of my opinions. please dont flame me for assumed opinions when i havent really stated any. its a question. id like to knwo WHY you advocate only championed, genetic historied (and so on) types of dogs beign breed.

-ashley

I can tell you why I think it is important that dogs be bred by ethical breeders but I am having a hard time understanding what that has to do with 40 year old women having children or the rest of that.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by m_feng

Don't you against people who wear designer clothes? It is the same idea to me.

Dogs are not clothes. They are living / breathing creatures.

[want4rain]

i believe women over the age of 35 the risk for birth defects are higher. i believe autism, low IQ, heart disease, obesity.... several other diseases are also linked to genetics. any of my daughters children could be born with a 3rd thumb(holy cow right?).

what about breeding desirable children?? i have very balanced beautiful intelligent children, does that mean im obligated to ahve more children? what about people who inherit low IQ's? are not athletic? people who have severe heart disease running in their blood... does that mean they SHOULDNT breed? i mean in society we say unethical people shouldnt have children. people who abuse their children or are incapable of taking care of them have their children removed and put into homes where people CAN take care of the children ethically. but with dogs most here say that people breeding dogs should ethically AND SELECTIVELY breed dogs.

i know that people who crank out these puppies for profit in horrible circumstances are terrible human beings but a reasonable human being who cares for his dogs, researches what he is doing and does it for the joy and hobby of it... i dont know. any geneticist worth his pay will tell you that no matter how hard you try, there will always be genetic issues. to say otherwise is foolish. elitism is something to be proud of but to say someone is scum because s/he doeesnt reach for that same level- to me, that is like saying that people who have known genetic issues shouldnt have children because for them to have children isnt in the best interest in the human race.

now im not really saying im right. i just dont understand why everyone here gets so angry when anythign other than elite individuals breed dogs. im not saying im not able to change my view, i would just like to understand somethign besides 'responsible breeders have mentors and do genetic testing" and all others are 'back yard breeders'.

dont flame me please.

-ashley

[Frenchy]

ashley, if the only ones who would breed dogs would be the responsable breeders , we wouldn't have all these dogs put down everyday at the spcas / humane societies / shleters because of pet overpopulation. There's just too many dogs out there, we don't need people making other breeds on top of that, we don't need a family breeding their female just because they think she is so darn cute , or because they want their kids to witness the miracle of life. They're going to say : oh but my dog had five puppies and I find 5 families to adopt them. Well, there's 5 dogs somewhere that will be put down at a shelter because no one adopted them. There's enough dogs right now looking to be adopted , no need for bringing more into this world.

When I get a phone call on a friday morning while I'm at work , from a shelter who tell me if I can't take this dog into our rescue, he will be put down at 2:00 pm because they just don't have the space for him , it pisses me off. Pisses me off that they're always full, pisses me off that they have to put down all these great dogs , just because they are too many.

[LavenderRott]

First off - let me start by saying that dogs/puppies aren't people/children. To be honest, I am a bit loath to compare the two.

I had my youngest child when I was in my early 30's. For a time, we were concerned that he would be born with Trisome 18 - which is a most horrible condition, generally "not compatible with life" and would have required that, as a parent, I would have to make some very tough, life altering decisions. By the Grace of God, my son was born with 10 lovely fingers and toes and a mind to match.

As an intelligent human being, I have the option of making these decisions. If some horrible genetic issue ran in my family, it would be up to me to weigh my options and decide whether or not I wanted to have children. I also know that, if something life altering ran in my family and I decided to have children, those children would be watched carefully and tested for problems to make sure that they would have the best life possible. Many problems that people have are managable. There are medications that one can take daily for heart conditions, thyroid issues and such.

Dogs don't decide whether or not they want to be parents. It is all hormones. Female dog comes into heat, male dog smells female dog in heat - well, you know the rest. Heck - dogs don't have sex so that they can feel good. They do it because their hormones and their instincts tell them too.

At some point in my adult life, I would like to have a lovely, well bred rottweiler puppy from an ethical breeder. I would expect that said puppy meet the breed standard, will not drop dead of an undetected heart condition at the age of two, will not need reconstructive hip surgery before it is a year old and will have the intelligence and drive to do what the breed was originally bred for - carting and herding. This is accomplished by very careful breeding. If you want to call that elitist - that is entirely up to you. But since I will be spending my hard earned money on what I hope will be a good friend for 10+ years, then I guess it is my job to be as careful as possible to get the best dog that I can. (And doesn't that sound a bit cold.)

I know plenty of people who purchased dogs from less then ethical breeders and I have heard the stories of dogs that dropped dead playing with the kids in the backyard because of a genetic heart condition. I know a woman who has a dog that she loves with all of her heart but the dog has cost her more then her house - pain and suffering that could have been avoided by both dog and owner had some simple tests been done to the parents before they were bred.

I work with the mentally and physically handicapped every day. While I know that most of the kids I work with have parents who love them just as they are - I am fairly certain that not all of them would have opted to have children if they had known, for a fact, what quality of life that child would have.

[CyberKitten]

OMG, I have to jump in if only because as a pediatrician, I get upset when I see the whole breeding of dogs - or cats for that matter - compared with children. That is not at all the same. I am not flaming anyone, just stating a point of view. The way the dog breeding world- the one I see as reputable and that means someone with a proper credentialed dog, and who had worked his or her way up the ladder to understanding what it is all about, breeds ONLY a titled Grand Champion and NO other animal, spends a small fortune (not necessary in the repertoire of characteristics but is the truth of all the breeders I know or have ever met - they don't care about the money, it is a very expensive hobby for them and they are in it for the love of the animals.) are a completely different world than then eugenics and having the perfect human baby.

While I do thin there are innocent people who for whatever unfortunate reason opt to breed their pet (usually lack of knowledge) I really can see no such entity as a "good" backyard breeder. It's akin to suggesting a backyard physician - one not Board certified or a psychologist whop practices without the proper credentials. Would you seriously see someone like that?

Perhaps because I have served on so many boards and committees re disabilities in children and others, and spent a zillion hrs on ethical committees making decisions on what policies to adopt for a medial centre, I know we do not allow families to decided what kind of children they can have. The two issues- are oranges and apples!! Yes, there are now some scientific ways of determining what one's child will be in terms of gender and whether they may have certain illnesses and we can actually operate on fetuses (thankfully) to cure or help a situation. But that gives no one the right to play God or make unethical decisions regarding a human being.

And as for

By using throwing around the term "backyard breeder" you are inadvertently telling people who may be new to the game that anyone who literally breeds dogs in their backyard is a bad breeder. Maybe it's time that we get a little more descriptive with the words that we use. I think I'm the one that brought up backyard breeders. I regret that now.

I do think that anyone who inadvertently breeds is a bad breeder! How can they not be? I am not saying they are bad people - they may be well meaning, just lack knowledge and the entire scope of the problem. Some even mean well. But that hardly gives them the right to add to the growing crisis iof pet overpopulation. I would think the good ones would want t know how they can help instead of breeding! Or if they are serious about breeding, they will learn about how to do it in the proper manner and while I am not wild about more animals being bred when so many die needless and cruel deaths every minute of every day, at least if they obtain a mentor, have a certified pet from a Champion and understand what the standard is, they won't be creating problems.

That's all for me!

[dtbmnec]

Meh if I want a labradoodle I know exactly what I'm going to do

Yep...

Gonna find me a Lab and take a curling iron to it. Possibly set up something about a perm...yep.

Lab + Perm = Labradoodle all the way!



I'm sorry I'll go meander back to my corner now....please don't kill me....

Megan

P.S. No dogs of any sort were hurt in the process of typing this remark

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by dtbmnec

Lab + Perm = Labradoodle all the way!



I'm sorry I'll go meander back to my corner now....please don't kill me....

Megan

that's ok , I know I'm not mad , I just get passionate about this breeding thing.

[CyberKitten]

As long as you note that no dogs were hurt in the posting of that joke!

[want4rain]

i guess the reason im asking is because my grandfather breeds family dobermans. he breeds his female once in her life time. he keeps the largest, healthiest female and the his children (my aunts and uncles) get the rest of the off spring. he is on his 5th generation?? this genetic line has been in our family for (human) 2 generations. his first bitch was from his father. my aunt bred one of her females once for HER children but otherwise the offspring from Jillian (the name of all of grandpas bitches) are fixed.

aside from that, by domesticating the wolf to a dog we took away the natural selection of mother nature. to me that is why a sickened or diseased dog should NOT breed and maybe even just the elite should breed dogs. while we are poor substitutes for mother nature, we make do with the best we can.

i also strongly feel that if folks want their children to witness the miracle of life... go get a rooster, a few chickens and a coop. it will cost you far far less in the end AND you get a few chickens to eat.

id also like to say in reading through this thread i kinda forgot it was about designer dogs which really irritate me. if you want a mutt, go adopt a mutt. breeding a dog for money... thats like having kids so you have someone to take care of you when you get old.

so i went to scroll down to see again what LavenderRott (i absolutely *love* the handle, it makes me think of all thats beautiful abotu rotts!!!) and say like 10 other responses!!

i will see if i cant get my sister to photoshop a Labradoodle for ya. i sure Mister would just *love* the make over. *snickers*

one more thing- i had to google eugenics. we have several mental handicaps along with (it seems) SIDS and heart disease (who doesnt right?) that runs in MY side of the family... so i didnt mean to offend with comparing the two (children and puppies). i just want to understand where the line is drawn HERE, if anywhere. some people here treat their dogs better than i treat my children, and im far from a bad mom!! Chris and i had a discussion before we ever got pregnant about those hard decisions and we both came to the conclusion that we would intelligently deal with that when it came up but we made sure we knew that the possibilities were.

anyways, its 11pm here and i baked cookies today. im bushed. im going to go eat a cookie and go to bed (thats after i go upstairs and laugh at the position my son is sleeping in and then go in the kitchen to see what position Mister is sleeping in and laugh a bit).

-ashley

[want4rain]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

that's ok , I know I'm not mad , I just get passionate about this breeding thing.

i also like to say im not trying to say that championing BYB's and such is not worth every single ounce of effort that anyone and everyone puts forth educating the 'elitist' way of doing things. the summit is nothing to be ashamed of. its a sad thing that 'elitist' has such a bad connotation these days. striving to be the best at what you do is a wonderful thing.

-ashley

[m_feng]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

Dogs are not clothes. They are living / breathing creatures.

Right,dogs are not clothes. I mean having a designer breed dog is just a personal choice which is the same as you choose to wear designer clothes than having something from Walmart,etc.. Easy! I love my dog as my own child. There are some positive aspect of making designer breed. This is how we improve our standard of living base on new research of all kinds. In short, I like people to see things in different angle. Believe me, you will feel happier if you turn on your critical thinking side of your head. Sorry if I offend anyone for making this statement.

[dtbmnec]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

that's ok , I know I'm not mad , I just get passionate about this breeding thing.

LOL

I can totally understand that

As long as you note that no dogs were hurt in the posting of that joke!

Ooops gonna go back and edit then

i also like to say im not trying to say that championing BYB's and such is not worth every single ounce of effort that anyone and everyone puts forth educating the 'elitist' way of doing things. the summit is nothing to be ashamed of. its a sad thing that 'elitist' has such a bad connotation these days. striving to be the best at what you do is a wonderful thing.

-ashley

I think the point being that it should be left up to the experts. To people who DO know the business and don't let Fluffy mate every other day for the next six years.

It'd be like just about anything else. If I need to go in for open heart surgery I'd like to know that the guy opening me up has a degree and has done it before with SUCCESS. *has visions of some creepy crazy almost doctor like figure standing over her with a scalpel and tossing things out of her body saying things like "oh well we don't NEED that!" and "well this can go too!"* Gah.

You see what I'm saying?

Would you rather have Dr. Frankenstein or even a five year old kid with a scalpel or an actual open heart surgeon do the surgery?

Megan

[m_feng]

I am also a mom & love your insight on this topic. My kid has a much higher position than my dog. Every parent want to have a perfectly health baby and every dog owner would love to have a puppy with no genetic problem. In fact, there is no 100% guarantee for the outcome. In short, I think people have the right to choose what they want but they have to carry on the responsiblity until the last minute. Don't just get a puppy by impluse whether it is a designer breed or anything else. I guess people just confuse about the topic. Many unwanted dogs & cats in the shelter are usually not designer breed! Someone has to define the term "designer breed". Perhaps, dogs & cats from pet store or puppy mills are just designer breed look alike.



UOTE=LavenderRott;456523]First off - let me start by saying that dogs/puppies aren't people/children. To be honest, I am a bit loath to compare the two.

I had my youngest child when I was in my early 30's. For a time, we were concerned that he would be born with Trisome 18 - which is a most horrible condition, generally "not compatible with life" and would have required that, as a parent, I would have to make some very tough, life altering decisions. By the Grace of God, my son was born with 10 lovely fingers and toes and a mind to match.

As an intelligent human being, I have the option of making these decisions. If some horrible genetic issue ran in my family, it would be up to me to weigh my options and decide whether or not I wanted to have children. I also know that, if something life altering ran in my family and I decided to have children, those children would be watched carefully and tested for problems to make sure that they would have the best life possible. Many problems that people have are managable. There are medications that one can take daily for heart conditions, thyroid issues and such.

Dogs don't decide whether or not they want to be parents. It is all hormones. Female dog comes into heat, male dog smells female dog in heat - well, you know the rest. Heck - dogs don't have sex so that they can feel good. They do it because their hormones and their instincts tell them too.

At some point in my adult life, I would like to have a lovely, well bred rottweiler puppy from an ethical breeder. I would expect that said puppy meet the breed standard, will not drop dead of an undetected heart condition at the age of two, will not need reconstructive hip surgery before it is a year old and will have the intelligence and drive to do what the breed was originally bred for - carting and herding. This is accomplished by very careful breeding. If you want to call that elitist - that is entirely up to you. But since I will be spending my hard earned money on what I hope will be a good friend for 10+ years, then I guess it is my job to be as careful as possible to get the best dog that I can. (And doesn't that sound a bit cold.)

I know plenty of people who purchased dogs from less then ethical breeders and I have heard the stories of dogs that dropped dead playing with the kids in the backyard because of a genetic heart condition. I know a woman who has a dog that she loves with all of her heart but the dog has cost her more then her house - pain and suffering that could have been avoided by both dog and owner had some simple tests been done to the parents before they were bred.

I work with the mentally and physically handicapped every day. While I know that most of the kids I work with have parents who love them just as they are - I am fairly certain that not all of them would have opted to have children if they had known, for a fact, what quality of life that child would have.[/QUOTE]

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by m_feng

Right,dogs are not clothes. I mean having a designer breed dog is just a personal choice which is the same as you choose to wear designer clothes than having something from Walmart,etc.. Easy! I love my dog as my own child. There are some positive aspect of making designer breed. This is how we improve our standard of living base on new research of all kinds. In short, I like people to see things in different angle. Believe me, you will feel happier if you turn on your critical thinking side of your head. Sorry if I offend anyone for making this statement.

I think you need to do a little bit more research into your designer breeds. No animals were killed or tortured so that I could wear some fancy shirt.

While the occasional labradoodle comes from someone's backyard (which I DO NOT defend in any way, shape, or form) a vast majority of them come from your ever popular puppy mill. Now - when you can honestly sit there and defend breeding sick, crippled dogs who never see the light of day (and if they do, it is because they are caged outside with little to no protection from the elements) or walk on grass - then we can have a serious conversation about your point of view. But I doubt I will ever think that it is ok to breed dogs so that you (or Britney or Paris) can make a fashion statement.

[LavenderRott]

Many unwanted dogs & cats in the shelter are usually not designer breed! Someone has to define the term "designer breed". Perhaps, dogs & cats from pet store or puppy mills are just designer breed look alike.

You might want to check out one of the miller registries. They most certainly can and will give your mutt puppies a fancy sounding "designer" name so that you can make big money off of your now registered puppies.

After reading the above statement a second time - I have to wonder just what you think a "designer breed" is?