Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 12:52 PM
Ford Girl's Avatar
Ford Girl Ford Girl is offline
I gotz 2 babies now!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,258
IBD in Canines - Anyone?

Hey guys!!! Long time, no see.

Does anyone on here deal with Canine Irritable Bowel Disease? Dazys been sick for ages, and we are currently treating her for IBD. Just wondering if anyone else's pups have this? Besided perscription meds and vet-food (which is what we are currently doing to calm a severe flair up), is anyone using anything holistic for digestive issues or IBD?

Her eventual intolerence and adverson to food dates back to puppyhood, so they we think gastrointestinal rather then allergies.

At this point the next step is an intestinal biospy. Over the last 3 months we've taken the steps to diagnose IBD. Blood work, ultra sounds, fecal and urine tests, liver, heart, kidneys, ears, skin, coat, all normal.

Poor girl, kills me to see her so sick.
__________________
Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind

Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!!


If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet!

221/194/170(for next year)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:14 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 53,771
Evan had IBD, FG. We brought him back from the brink of death with pred and prescription hypoallergenic food, and eventually could control his IBD with just food alone (no pred). It was hard to keep weight on him because our food choices were limited and he hated the stuff he could eat. We finally ended up mixing Purina H/A with Hills Z/D to come up with something palatable to him but we never could get any weight on him.

I'm sorry to hear about Dazy. It can be a real task to manage IBD. The intestinal biopsy will confirm the diagnosis and tell you what type she has and maybe give you some more options for treatment... Have things like atypical Addison's been ruled out?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:36 PM
Ford Girl's Avatar
Ford Girl Ford Girl is offline
I gotz 2 babies now!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,258
Thanks Hazel, whats "pred"? Right now Dazy's on Metronidazole for the inflamation and Sulcrate to protect the stomach lining. And Medical Hypoallergenic formula, which we may end up switching to Gastro formula.

Im not sure what they've ruled out besides thyroid, liver damage, I guess we are only at the beginning with this...
__________________
Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind

Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!!


If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet!

221/194/170(for next year)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:40 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,769
Awww poor Daisy

Pitgrrl had her dogs on raw to fight her dog's intolerances.

BTW, It is Inflammable Bowel Disease, or Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Syndrome meaning it is usually to do with intolerances or the nervous system and how the bowels move, rather than a disease that results in the colon being damaged. IBD can only be diagnosed through biopsy and then Prednisone is used to control it, change in diet won't.

In humans, IBS can be controlled somewhat by diet (not eating what irritates the digestive system) or relieving stress. IBD can't be controlled by diet, but eliminating those foods that irritate the colon may help relieve some of the symptoms.

In saying that, if it is IBS and a food tolerance, you could try a very simple, limited ingredient raw diet that you control 100% then use the process of elimination to determine what is causing it.

Good luck :goodv ibes:

And of course, we need pics of her It's been too long
__________________
Cat maid to:


Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs)

Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:41 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 53,771
Pred = Prednisone. His first episode was almost a killer--dropped a bunch of weight, constant diarrhea, finally ended up pooping what looked like tar. Very scary. We went into the Vet Teaching Hosp in Minneapolis on an emergency basis and finally got the diagnosis. He was put on a large pred dose for weeks, then we slowly weaned him off as his symptoms improved.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:47 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 53,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
IBD can only be diagnosed through biopsy and then Prednisone is used to control it, change in diet won't.
I think it depends on what type of inflamatory bowel disease it is, L4H. Evan's was mediated by eosinophils, though that's not always the case. In his case, the IBD caused him to develop an allergy to proteins--any proteins. We switched him from protein to protein as he developed intolerances and eventually had to put him on the hypoallergenic formulas. They're made from hydrolyzed proteins--proteins broken up into chains of amino acids so small that the intestine didn't recognize them as proteins. But the stuff tastes blah!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 02:30 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
I think it depends on what type of inflamatory bowel disease it is, L4H. Evan's was mediated by eosinophils, though that's not always the case. In his case, the IBD caused him to develop an allergy to proteins--any proteins. We switched him from protein to protein as he developed intolerances and eventually had to put him on the hypoallergenic formulas. They're made from hydrolyzed proteins--proteins broken up into chains of amino acids so small that the intestine didn't recognize them as proteins. But the stuff tastes blah!
Then it is different than what is considered IBD's in humans. IBD in humans are Crohns and Colitis. The cause is not known, however what is known is that food doesn't cause it. Currently it is believed that it is an autoimmune disease (I on the other hand believe there is something that causes it, not an immune system gone ) It is usually comes in flares and requires meds to control it. Pred being used to get it under control.
__________________
Cat maid to:


Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs)

Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 02:50 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 53,771
In canines, at least, it has a strong autoimmune component--they just don't know how it all ties in, I think. There are a number of immune cells that can be involved...we were 'lucky' in that Evan's responded so well to the pred and eventually could be kept under control by not challenging his gut with proteins...

A little , but do you have IBD, L4H, or someone you know? You seem to know quite a bit about it. One of my friends, lo these many years ago, had Crohn's all through high school but it went undiagnosed till she needed an emergency resect! She was luckily able to manage it well and recovered fully, but it was touch-and-go for a while! I hope you're not having to deal with it!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 03:17 PM
Ford Girl's Avatar
Ford Girl Ford Girl is offline
I gotz 2 babies now!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,258
Awesome info ladies, and thanks! When it's canine, from what Im told, its Irritable Bowel Disease OR Irritable Bowel Syndrom, they just classify it different in dogs then humans. Either way, the treatment Ive read about and been given is strict diet and the 2 meds we are on. I havent seen or read anything about pred - interesting, Im going to inquire about it. My vet didnt mention this med.

We were told the corse of action for IBD is: Low fat, high fibre, hydrolyzed proteins diet, Metronidazole and Sulcrate. IF this doesnt work in the next 3 weeks, then we proceed with further tests (Biopsy, ultra sound, xrays, allergy testing), and the 2 meds may be life long, which is why Im wondering if there is a digestive aid or something natural we could use instead.

We are not willing to go raw at this point, infact the more healthy foods, such as grain free or holistic foods make her way more sick then lesser quality brands. Its instant sick with anything rich or protien based, grain free. Right now she's on President's Choice Meaty First (Lamb and rice), from the grocery store, its lasted the longest tolerence wise of all the foods we've tried throughout her life, 15 months before she showed a reaction. We've tried every brand out there before grocery store brand and this seems the be the easiest on her out of all of them. Right now she's on Medical Hypoallergenic, Duck and Potato.

Her symptoms come and go, when they apear its REALLY bad, heavy panting, foul mucusy frequent bowel movements, red eyes, lethargic, refuses to eat, head low, tail tucked. We'll have 4 good days, then 2 bad days, then she'll seem better, then bad, better then bad, its not constant but more like bad flaire ups! She hasn't lost any weight, she's a whopping, but lean 87lbs!

Poor Dazy, and poor DH - he gets home first and if she's having a bad day there will be piles of poop, vommit and urine to clean up...the vommit and urine are from trying to hold her poop in all day, she typically doesnt throw up otherwise. Then she becomes depressed in the following days due to her accidents in the house.
__________________
Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind

Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!!


If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet!

221/194/170(for next year)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 03:21 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 53,771
Since pred is a steroid and has some really nasty side-effects, they likely won't add it to the arsenal unless she really gets bad, FG. If you can manage it without pred, Dazy will be so much better off in the long run. There's definitely a place for pred, but it's one of the last options they usually try. that Dazy won't get bad enough to need it.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 03:33 PM
Ford Girl's Avatar
Ford Girl Ford Girl is offline
I gotz 2 babies now!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,258
Thanks Hazel, I pray that she wont either!! On a good day she's your typlical fright-train-of-love...shes absolutly wonderful with Lewis, they are best buds. You should see him stick his arm in her chops to get her ball lol! He throws it for her, she was quick to learn that it doesnt go very far! lol!

He also says "Dazy" loud and clear...so he'll walk around saying.."UH Oh Dazy"...""Hi Dazy"..."Nite nite Dazy"..which makes her so happy, her own little person to love.

Its been a struggle ensuring that he doesnt feed her, but the 2 of them are sneaky!!
__________________
Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind

Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!!


If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet!

221/194/170(for next year)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 03:35 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 53,771
That's so great that they're best buds like that!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 03:35 PM
Diamondsmum Diamondsmum is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,816
aww FG!!! Poor Dazy & you guys too to you all.

I don know which is harder Sicks kids or sick pets you can get her all better.

EDIT*** Good to hear there friendship has blossomed that is what you had wanted when lewis was in your tummy
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 03:43 PM
Ford Girl's Avatar
Ford Girl Ford Girl is offline
I gotz 2 babies now!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,258
We did have a rough few months where she would growl at him when he approached her, or growl if he crawled past her bowls, she was trying to teach him manners - dog manners!! lol! It was when he first become mobile and would crawl to her and grab her feet or steal her ball...but once she realized he was an upright human she was thrilled to have him chase her and play! Lucky for me there are some wonderful people on here that helped us train them both! She always tucks him in at night, she's always right there, stuck to him, the first time he said her name she came flying over and licked him. lol! Oddly enough, she's never knocked him down or gotten too rough. He pets her roughly cuz we do, the old smack on the giant rump...she loves it.

Its too cute too, he talks to her in a soft light voice that he only uses with animals cuz thats how we talked when refurring to him about her, when he was younger we'd say.."there's dazy, awww, nice puppy" "nice...soft...be gentle"...in a light soft gentle voice..once he started talking, thats how he talks to animals..lol...crack me up. His usual voice is loud and booming!
__________________
Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind

Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!!


If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet!

221/194/170(for next year)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 04:08 PM
Diamondsmum Diamondsmum is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,816
awww <--- needs pics pls
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 04:09 PM
NoahGrey's Avatar
NoahGrey NoahGrey is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
IBD in humans are Crohns and Colitis. The cause is not known, however what is known is that food doesn't cause it. Currently it is believed that it is an autoimmune disease (I on the other hand believe there is something that causes it, not an immune system gone )
I have Colitis and am currently in a flare. They say that diet doesn't cause this, however I disagree. Poor eating habitats will cause you to flare. When flaring you have to totally change your diet..and eat more of a blane diet, and stay away from certain foods. When not in a flare, you can eat anything. People with UC, have a extemely low iummune system (for instance someone without UC, has a 100% healthy iumnne system, as for someone with UC, might have a 70%, when not flaring and worse when flaring) People who have UC, your system actually attacks itself.

I am currently on Prednisone..I actually put myself on it yesterday, a month long flare and no end it sight. I hate prednisone, but I had tried everything and nothing seemed to work. I am also on meds and a probiotics.

Is your dog on a probiotics...omega 3's help with inflammation as well.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 04:14 PM
Ford Girl's Avatar
Ford Girl Ford Girl is offline
I gotz 2 babies now!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,258
No, she isnt on anything but the 2 meds and food right now, we are trying to keep things simple right now, Ive given her probiotic in the past tho, they seem to help.

DM, I tried to post some but they are too big, no matter how small I make them, Im at work, so I wil try and find time tonight.
__________________
Momma to a pooch - Dazy the Dutchess of Duke Boyd of the canine kind

Pubert Wizzer Howell-Boyd III of the feline kind R.I.P my little guy!!


If you can't afford a vet, you can't afford a pet!

221/194/170(for next year)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 08:24 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
In canines, at least, it has a strong autoimmune component--they just don't know how it all ties in, I think. There are a number of immune cells that can be involved...we were 'lucky' in that Evan's responded so well to the pred and eventually could be kept under control by not challenging his gut with proteins...

A little , but do you have IBD, L4H, or someone you know? You seem to know quite a bit about it. One of my friends, lo these many years ago, had Crohn's all through high school but it went undiagnosed till she needed an emergency resect! She was luckily able to manage it well and recovered fully, but it was touch-and-go for a while! I hope you're not having to deal with it!
Yes, I have colitis , I hate it.
__________________
Cat maid to:


Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs)

Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old June 23rd, 2010, 08:27 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahGrey View Post
I have Colitis and am currently in a flare. They say that diet doesn't cause this, however I disagree. Poor eating habitats will cause you to flare. When flaring you have to totally change your diet..and eat more of a blane diet, and stay away from certain foods. When not in a flare, you can eat anything. People with UC, have a extemely low iummune system (for instance someone without UC, has a 100% healthy iumnne system, as for someone with UC, might have a 70%, when not flaring and worse when flaring) People who have UC, your system actually attacks itself.

I am currently on Prednisone..I actually put myself on it yesterday, a month long flare and no end it sight. I hate prednisone, but I had tried everything and nothing seemed to work. I am also on meds and a probiotics.

Is your dog on a probiotics...omega 3's help with inflammation as well.
Not true, I am a very, and have been a very healthy eater all my life and still have it . My sympathies on your flare , it just sucks
__________________
Cat maid to:


Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs)

Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old June 24th, 2010, 08:25 AM
NoahGrey's Avatar
NoahGrey NoahGrey is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Not true, I am a very, and have been a very healthy eater all my life and still have it . My sympathies on your flare , it just sucks
I didn't know you had colitis..at least i know i can message you and talk about it. Always nice to have someone to talk to who understands the disease. Yes it does suck. I have been on prednisone for 3 days now and things are starting to look up. I am also on Salofalk...but have been on that since 2007 (when I was diagnosed). Starting to think that my body is now immune it Salofalk. Getting a scope down on July 7th..so will be talking to specialist to see if i can change meds

There is no cure for this disease yet, which blows my mind. Stress plays a major role in this disease. Certain foods can trigger a flare, no matter how healthy you are eating. Are you on FB?

Last edited by NoahGrey; June 24th, 2010 at 08:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old June 25th, 2010, 12:13 AM
TeriM's Avatar
TeriM TeriM is offline
Live well, laugh often
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,757
No advice for you fordgirl but wanted to send some good thoughts for Dazy. Hope you can get it worked out soon.

__________________
"Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:45 AM.