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Old September 29th, 2010, 08:01 PM
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Is it just me...

... or does there seem to be more than the "normal" amount of users who won't have their dog/cat spayed/neutered for a number of reasons lately?

I feel so frustrated I can't even comment on these posts anymore except suggest these individuals to go to www.petfinder.com or volunteer at their local SPCA, HS, etc. where I hope they may begin to appreciate how much of a tragedy the over-population of cats/dogs in the world really is. I feel that most arguments to these individuals are falling on deaf ears, but I have faith that even if 1 person out of 10 changes their mind, it has been a success.

I just can not understand how in 2010, with all the information, research, and statistics that is widely distributed and available, anyone would even consider breeding their pet. Or, maybe not planning on breeding their pet but just not having them fixed. To me, this issue should not even be a debate anymore in 2010. I'm happy we are making slow progress in this area, but I fear in my life I will never see a time with no more homeless pets. (And I have at least another 50+ years to go...)

I am no angel... I have made mistakes in my lifetime of owning pets, including purchasing a dog from a BYB, something which I regret every day of my life and will never do again, now that I know better. Even 30 years ago when my parents adopted our first family dog, he was neutered, when there was not nearly as much education out there about the pet over-population. How do we not know any better now?

Please, please, please... for those of you who are considering breeding your pet or not having s/he fixed please check out this thread: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18285 I feel Lucky Rescue put it well.

I just have a hard time accepting that individuals can know about how many innocent, loving, sweet pets are killed because of their owner's irresponsibility (because, let's face it - most animals that end up in these situations is no fault of their own) and still want to breed their pets. Am I missing something here? Where is the common sense? Maybe it's a stretch here, but in my mind those who breed their pets irresponsibily are directly contributing to the murder of millions of dogs and cats every year.

I don't want this thread to turn into a hostile debate back and forth, rather I ask... no beg, those of you who are considering breeding your pet to please re-think it.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 09:56 PM
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Old September 29th, 2010, 10:08 PM
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I'm convinced many of those threads are started by trolls and I don't even bother posting in them.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 10:08 PM
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Cassie, thank you for bringing this topic up. I can't speak for others but I do have to admit, until only 5 or so years ago, I didn't know much about what went on at shelters and pounds and how bad the pet overpopulation, abuse, abandonment rate was. For some reason, I always thought that SPCA's were where one took their pets to be neutered or was the place responsible for picking up strays who would shortly be found by their owners .

It was only when we had a truly awful experience did I begin to do some research, and it wasn't even related really but, one topic led to another and I just happened to fall on all sorts of information by 'mistake.'

I think that unless someone is looking for particular info, it's really not that readily available to the general public as we'd like to think. I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.
I am one of those people. And until we had health problems with Thorin, he wasn't neutered. Not because we wanted to breed him, but more because a) the surgery scared me b) we didn't see the need as he doesn't run free or go to off leash. I have learned alot from the people here, and am very appreciative

And also learned how important spaying/neutering is, not just for reproduction, but overall health of the animal.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Dracko View Post
I'm convinced many of those threads are started by trolls and I don't even bother posting in them.
I think so too... but sometimes I'm not so sure. Regardless, I volunteer at a HS and it just baffles me the number of calls every shift I have of yet another litter of puppies because of irresponsible owners, the incorrect information people have about spaying/neutering etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
Cassie, thank you for bringing this topic up. I can't speak for others but I do have to admit, until only 5 or so years ago, I didn't know much about what went on at shelters and pounds and how bad the pet overpopulation, abuse, abandonment rate was. For some reason, I always thought that SPCA's were where one took their pets to be neutered or was the place responsible for picking up strays who would shortly be found by their owners .

It was only when we had a truly awful experience did I begin to do some research, and it wasn't even related really but, one topic led to another and I just happened to fall on all sorts of information by 'mistake.'

I think that unless someone is looking for particular info, it's really not that readily available to the general public as we'd like to think. I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.
I also was not nearly aware of just how bad the situation is until about 4 years ago. Once I started becoming involved in rescue work and doing some research my eyes were quickly opened to the harsh reality of this tragedy. We had always had our pets fixed, probably more initially because we did not want to deal with the work puppies require and because of the health benefits, not necessarily because we realized how bad the pet over-population is. When Diesel came along I was bouncing up and down the day he went in to lose his buddies!

Still, I like to think that one does not have to do that much digging to find the benefits of spaying and neutering your pets. Surely, the number of pet stores that are starting to promote rescues instead of buying puppymill pups, the billboards, the vast amount of literature on the topic is starting to get through to people... I hope. With this day and age of all the information that is available literally at our fingertips it's not difficult to find the information... if you know what you are looking for. I know BFAS also does a lot of work in the US to promote No More Homeless Pets and does tons of advertising on the issue... I like to think that this info reaches members of the public and may cause them to think twice before breeding their pet. I know that I usually get comments from people that call the HS along the lines of "I guess this is why they are promoting spaying/neutering" and it gives me hope that people are starting to realize how important it is.

I really think our vets have such a huge advantage here. They talk to many, many pet owners and I hope that a lot of them also promote the surgery and explain the benefits of it. They really are at an advantage as they see so many clients and they are considered a reputable source.

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Originally Posted by Rgeurts View Post
I am one of those people. And until we had health problems with Thorin, he wasn't neutered. Not because we wanted to breed him, but more because a) the surgery scared me b) we didn't see the need as he doesn't run free or go to off leash. I have learned alot from the people here, and am very appreciative

And also learned how important spaying/neutering is, not just for reproduction, but overall health of the animal.
I think this is one of those things we just have to keep plugging away at, and slowly the situation will improve. Sometimes I just become so frustrated and saddened by how tragic reality really is and need to vent.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cassiek View Post
I think this is one of those things we just have to keep plugging away at, and slowly the situation will improve.
I believe it is improving, slowly but surely. Not sure how old you are Cassie but, when I was a kid only 30 years or so ago , no one I ever knew spayed or neutered their pets . Now that I think of it though, not too many people in our neighborhood had pets. I don't remember any cats living on our street and only two homes had dogs. Where I live now, at least every second house on the road has either dogs or cats.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cassiek View Post
Sometimes I just become so frustrated and saddened by how tragic reality really is and need to vent.
As you should when you need to .
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Old September 30th, 2010, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
I believe it is improving, slowly but surely. Not sure how old you are Cassie but, when I was a kid only 30 years or so ago , no one I ever knew spayed or neutered their pets . Now that I think of it though, not too many people in our neighborhood had pets. I don't remember any cats living on our street and only two homes had dogs. Where I live now, at least every second house on the road has either dogs or cats.




As you should when you need to .
I think the increased awareness over the past 20 years has really helped to decrease the number of pets euthanized every year. And certainly people seem to have more pets these days... I remember growing up it was common for a home to maybe have one dog or cat, but very rarely did homes have multiple dogs and/or cats like we see now!

What's disturbing though is pre-1990's more than 15 million animals were PTS in the US. I believe these days it is down around 2-3 million. There certainly were less pets in people's homes pre-90's so that means that a good majority of animals were being PTS. Also means with all the pets we have these days, there are not nearly as many percentage wise being PTS. Maybe there wasn't the resources at that time to deal with the # of animals surrendered. Certainly in the last few years many rescues have sprung up, and the internet (in someways) has helped with the creation of sites such as PetFinder. And even though its taken 2 decades, we are obviously making some progress. I love the work rescues, shelters, HS, etc. do but to be honest I really think these days there is just too many alternatives to keeping your pet. Which is fortunate otherwise most of these pets may end up with a very tragic ending IMO, I think it has become so easy for people to "dump" off their pets somewhere - even though shelters are over full, they can usually find someone to take their animal somewhere. It has become very easy for people to just put their "problem" on another person and not hold up to their responsibilities.
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  #9  
Old September 30th, 2010, 06:11 AM
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Great thread. One I will mull over this morning at work.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post

I think that unless someone is looking for particular info, it's really not that readily available to the general public as we'd like to think. I often wonder how many of "us" had come here for one reason or another and learned so much more by accident? I know I sure am one of them.
I think you hit on a very important point here. Many, if not most of us, have made mistakes in the past (hey, I've got a byb dog myself), and only through experience have we learned better ways to go about things with our animals. I think most of these threads are probably started by people who have good intentions and genuinely don't know the facts or alternatives. I think when we jump down their throats with accusations and hostile words, we lose any chance to educate them...hostility leads to closed defensiveness, not an openness to be taught.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
I think you hit on a very important point here. Many, if not most of us, have made mistakes in the past (hey, I've got a byb dog myself), and only through experience have we learned better ways to go about things with our animals. I think most of these threads are probably started by people who have good intentions and genuinely don't know the facts or alternatives. I think when we jump down their throats with accusations and hostile words, we lose any chance to educate them...hostility leads to closed defensiveness, not an openness to be taught.
I also have learned a lot being here. I hope I have helped to also educate others. Without the knowledge of others here I would have not learned so many things and gotten some great advice. Some of the posts are definitely trolls those are the ones that are usually the ones that get everyone really upset and that is the reason they are here. Me too Bendyfoot I have also bought a dog many years ago from a byb. Now I know better so I do better.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mastifflover View Post
I also have learned a lot being here. I hope I have helped to also educate others. Without the knowledge of others here I would have not learned so many things and gotten some great advice. Some of the posts are definitely trolls those are the ones that are usually the ones that get everyone really upset and that is the reason they are here. Me too Bendyfoot I have also bought a dog many years ago from a byb. Now I know better so I do better.
And if they're not trolls? If they're just someone who's misinformed but actually cares about their pet, not knowing (because they haven't been educated) that their actions/decisions may not be in their pet's best interests? I think if someone suspects a poster is a troll, they should refrain from replying all together. If they don't ignore, I think they should park the hostility at the door and provide helpful information.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 08:11 AM
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Ok, I am pretty sure I responded to this thread a few minutes ago, but it doesn't seem to be here . I wonder what thread I posted to
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Old September 30th, 2010, 08:35 AM
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I know I for one have learned tons of information on Pets. There is always room to grow and learn.

To be honest with you, and even though there is plenty of information out there on spay and neutering, over-population, gas chambers, lethal injections and the other mulitiple ways of destroying lives..if you don't ask questions, then alot of people really don't know.

Animals are 'property' in the eyes of the law. Because of this, we can avoid responsibility because property has a decreased value once purchased. You can dispose and do whatever you want with it, even though it lives and breaths. Until this mentality is convinced otherwise, people will still purchase from petstores, reproduce these creatures for profit or for the thrill of it without thinking about the consequences.

How about the costs of spay and neutering? Why is it that as important as this is, the medical community does not participate in trying to lower their darn prices to make it more accessible? The answer: Greed. Again - money is the nasty common denominator.

There are many campaigns out there to enlighten the public but again nothing that is more 'in your face'. Where are the billboards? I mean clothing companies splash half clad women on billboards to get the public's attention...where are the animal welfare campaigns? Why is it the animal food companies not trying to help out by putting a tiny bit of their profits towards educating the public? Greed.

It is going to take many many more years to educate. I fear we may not be around to see it. Our only hope is to let our children know so that they can pick up the slack and keep plugging away.

Great thread.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
And if they're not trolls? If they're just someone who's misinformed but actually cares about their pet, not knowing (because they haven't been educated) that their actions/decisions may not be in their pet's best interests? I think if someone suspects a poster is a troll, they should refrain from replying all together. If they don't ignore, I think they should park the hostility at the door and provide helpful information.
I totally get the "let's educate" thing , I mean , I've been trying to help here for 5 years now. But in some cases ... I'm like , come on , it's 2010 , people should know better by now.

If they come here to ask questions , that means they do have a computer and have internet access. They can look up infos (which btw , is very easy to find) and yet , they don't. They can call vet offices and ask a question , and yet , they don't.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 09:46 AM
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Why should they know better? I'm being serious! I considered myself to be a well-educated person AND an animal lover...but I still got a dog from a byb. I got my pets spayed/neutered because "that's what you do", not because I knew WHY it was the right thing to do. When neighbours had litters of puppies or kittens, my first reaction was "awwwwwww", not (as it is now). I didn't know better then...and why should I have? I was a new pet owner...I just did what others around me did...it seemed pretty straightforward and I had no reason to go seeking alternate opinions.

Just because WE know this stuff (now) doesn't mean we can reasonably expect everyone else to. It's simply not realistic.

I know it gets super-tiring saying the same thing over and over...for US...but for other visitors here, it may be the first time they've ever heard "the speech". If it's delivered with an honest intent to help and inform, people are way more likely to hear it. If we give "the speech"with the (however thinly veiled) intent to tell someone they're an idiot and a terrible pet owner, well...they're probably going to think "go to hell". And may not come across another potentially excellent resource like this forum.

I have to say this...there are so many people here who I admire greatly and do so much incredible work on behalf of animals that I could never even dream of doing myself, and who I generally think are pretty awesome people...but sometimes the replies I read that are given to new posters about matters of S/N, or breeding etc...well frankly it puts a very sour taste in my mouth, and makes me very uncomfortable, and well...a bit ashamed to be honest.
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Last edited by bendyfoot; September 30th, 2010 at 09:51 AM.
  #17  
Old September 30th, 2010, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
Why should they know better?
Because infos are all over , and very easy to access. Take for example a certain thread ... shouldn't the owner have ask her vet (or anywhere on the net) what could happen to have an intact male and an intact female in the same house BEFORE adopting 2 large dogs from different sex and not have them neutered / spayed ? Why is it too difficult to think things ahead of time ?

For crying out loud , I do research before buying a $100 vacuum !
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Old September 30th, 2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
Because infos are all over , and very easy to access. Take for example a certain thread ... shouldn't the owner have ask her vet (or anywhere on the net) what could happen to have an intact male and an intact female in the same house BEFORE adopting 2 large dogs from different sex and not have them neutered / spayed ?
They did ask...here...maybe a bit too late, but they're asking now

As for research ahead of time...yeah, maybe it would have been a good idea...but they were probably basing their decision to have a male and female in the house, with the intention of breeding, on what they've seen other people do or what they saw in their own homes growing up I was totally winging it at one point with my pets...monkey see, monkey do...it doesn't make me a bad person, just uneducated at the time. Now I'm a research fanatic, but I wasn't always
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Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
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Riley and Molly
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Old September 30th, 2010, 10:26 AM
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I happen to agree with Bendy. When I first came to this website, I wasn't very happy. I was actually feeling stupid and like a horrible pet owner. Then, as I was reading more, I started to get to know people and it was making sense. when you guys see the same stupid questions over and over - you must feel frustrated and hopeless (.".oh, great, here comes another one..") but the truth is that although I am a smart person and consider myself well-educated and knowledgeable about animals - I had NO CLUE how much info is out there! And how much suffering, an what really goes on... I never asked the questions simply because it was never in my mind. I never questioned where these cuties at the pet shop come from, and what conditions their parents are kept in etc... It boggles the mind once you are EXPOSED to it, but until then - its like an ostrich, head in the sand!
I only know all of this and am aware of what goes on and why because I stuck around long enough.
I am not saying that ya'all should sugar-coat it, but a bitter pill is hard to swallow and when a regular person (not a troll) feels under attack - they will turn and walk away and our words will fall on def ears or, rather, blind eye...
JMHO

Last edited by JennieV; September 30th, 2010 at 10:42 AM. Reason: my spelling is on vacation today
  #20  
Old September 30th, 2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
And if they're not trolls? If they're just someone who's misinformed but actually cares about their pet, not knowing (because they haven't been educated) that their actions/decisions may not be in their pet's best interests? I think if someone suspects a poster is a troll, they should refrain from replying all together. If they don't ignore, I think they should park the hostility at the door and provide helpful information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
I know I for one have learned tons of information on Pets. There is always room to grow and learn.

To be honest with you, and even though there is plenty of information out there on spay and neutering, over-population, gas chambers, lethal injections and the other mulitiple ways of destroying lives..if you don't ask questions, then alot of people really don't know.

Animals are 'property' in the eyes of the law. Because of this, we can avoid responsibility because property has a decreased value once purchased. You can dispose and do whatever you want with it, even though it lives and breaths. Until this mentality is convinced otherwise, people will still purchase from petstores, reproduce these creatures for profit or for the thrill of it without thinking about the consequences.

How about the costs of spay and neutering? Why is it that as important as this is, the medical community does not participate in trying to lower their darn prices to make it more accessible? The answer: Greed. Again - money is the nasty common denominator.

There are many campaigns out there to enlighten the public but again nothing that is more 'in your face'. Where are the billboards? I mean clothing companies splash half clad women on billboards to get the public's attention...where are the animal welfare campaigns? Why is it the animal food companies not trying to help out by putting a tiny bit of their profits towards educating the public? Greed.

It is going to take many many more years to educate. I fear we may not be around to see it. Our only hope is to let our children know so that they can pick up the slack and keep plugging away.

Great thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
Why should they know better? I'm being serious! I considered myself to be a well-educated person AND an animal lover...but I still got a dog from a byb. I got my pets spayed/neutered because "that's what you do", not because I knew WHY it was the right thing to do. When neighbours had litters of puppies or kittens, my first reaction was "awwwwwww", not (as it is now). I didn't know better then...and why should I have? I was a new pet owner...I just did what others around me did...it seemed pretty straightforward and I had no reason to go seeking alternate opinions.

Just because WE know this stuff (now) doesn't mean we can reasonably expect everyone else to. It's simply not realistic.

I know it gets super-tiring saying the same thing over and over...for US...but for other visitors here, it may be the first time they've ever heard "the speech". If it's delivered with an honest intent to help and inform, people are way more likely to hear it. If we give "the speech"with the (however thinly veiled) intent to tell someone they're an idiot and a terrible pet owner, well...they're probably going to think "go to hell". And may not come across another potentially excellent resource like this forum.

I have to say this...there are so many people here who I admire greatly and do so much incredible work on behalf of animals that I could never even dream of doing myself, and who I generally think are pretty awesome people...but sometimes the replies I read that are given to new posters about matters of S/N, or breeding etc...well frankly it puts a very sour taste in my mouth, and makes me very uncomfortable, and well...a bit ashamed to be honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JennieV View Post
I happen to agree with Bendy. When I first came to this website, I wasn't very happy. I was actually feeling stupid and like a horrible pet owner. Then, as I was reading more, I started to get to know people and it was making sense. when you guys see the same stupid questions over and over - you must feel frustrated and hopeless (.".oh, great, here comes another one..") but the truth is that although I am a smart person and consider myself well-educated and knowledgeable about animals - I had NO CLUE how much info is out there! And how much suffering, an what really goes on... I never asked the questions simply because it was never in my mind. I never questioned where these cuties at the pet shop come from, and what conditions their parents are kept in etc... It boggles the mind once you are EXPOSED to it, but until then - its like an ostrich, head in the sand!
I only know all of this and am aware of what goes on and why because I stuck around long enough.
I am not saying that ya'all should sugar-coat it, but a bitter pill is hard to swallow and when a regular person (not a troll) feels under attack - they will turn and walk away and our words will fall on def ears or, rather, blind eye...
JMHO
To sum it up... education is key, but so is being tactful. This thread had taken a completely different turn, but has raised an important point: our message will no doubt fall on deaf ears if we do not reply in a polite manner. How many threads are closed because it escalates out of control? I am a new member here, and to be honest have considered leaving several times because of the hostility that comes across on the board. Sometimes it feels like a group of teenage girls and boys with the lack of maturity and name-calling and it gets old real quick. That being said, I understand 110% where the frustration comes from when you are as passionate as most of us are about these issues and keep seeing the same ol' scenario coming up again and again and again.

Certainly I have learned much more since joining Pets and did not know near the amount of information I did now until joining. I certainly think that increasingly it is becoming more common for people to spay/neuter their pets and look at rescuing instead.

We have all made mistakes - I am not trying to point anyone's out - heck I said myself I purchased a dog from a BYB and had no idea at the time that it was "bad" in anyway. As far as I was concerned, that's what people did - looked in their local newspaper and purchased a pup - not questioning anything. I always had a bad feeling about where pet store puppies/kittens came from, but to be honest it was probably something we never did more so because of the horrendous cost they charge for a mutt.

Education is the answer here. I agree that the $$ vets charge to spay/neuter is outrageously over-priced and surely deters some pet owners from fixing their pets. I know that there is programs available for those who really can not afford it for low-cost spay/neuters. It's unfortunate that the greed of major pet corporations gets in the way of what's best for our pets whether that is nutrition wise, health wise, etc. Really, it's no different than for us humans... we can not rely on organizations like the USDA, FDA, or CFIA to ensure human food safety when they are funded by the company who is trying to promote their product. We need to educate ourselves, do our research, and read the labels and not just assume they have our best interests at heart.

I guess we really can't assume people know better. I like to suggest to people who are considering breeding their pets to volunteer at their local shelter. What better way to become informed of the tragic reality then to witness first-hand the sheer number of pets that are surrendered and PTS everyday, all for a BS reason? Or return endless messages of people who can't keep their pets for a garbage reason, have a litter of puppies because of stupidity, etc.? It doesn't take long to realize how ****ty the situation is, and start to feel disgusted at how us humans treat our companions. And once you start to become informed, I think you begin to appreciate that good information is everywhere - you may have to dig a little deep for it, but it is out there. It's not an excuse anymore that there is not good information out there - it's literally at our fingertips, even if yes you do have to type a few words into the google search bar. Probably we need groups to start having a more aggressive approach towards conveying the message - along the lines of PETA, who I disagree with for several reasons, but have to admit... they get their message across loud and clear. (And before anyone freaks, I am not saying advertising naked women or graphic pictures to get a message across is necessary!).
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Last edited by cassiek; September 30th, 2010 at 12:02 PM.
  #21  
Old September 30th, 2010, 11:58 AM
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I can't find my original post, but anyways.

If you are one to research to ensure you are making the correct decisions, then you will do so and are probably well educated in whatever endeavor you try. Those I think can be taught and will take in different opinions.

Then there are others who will do what the heck they please, doesn't matter what is "frowned upon" in society, doesn't matter how nice you are. If you don't agree with what they want to hear, then being nice isn't going to make one bit of difference.

I really believe that those who are research types will take in what members are saying and don't respond negatively back and we don't respond back negatively to them. However those who jump back at members' posts fit into those "who will do the heck they want" category, we do jump on their backs.

And then you get into senior members attacking other senior members and to me that is something to be ashamed of. That really makes us look like we are , then things get off topic.
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  #22  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:16 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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Yes it is entirely possible for someone to not have all the information they need,,,mind you what information is available today as opposed to 5-10yrs ago is hugely different. I do find it harder to believe that you can go anywhere without knowing atleast a little something about the need to spay/neuter. It is all over tv,papers,etc now adays,,for years Bob Barker ended the price is right with a plea to spay/neuter your pets..but even so,,ok you don't know all the pro's and cons about the topic..don't you think you should find out before
deciding to breed?

Then we have the obvious Trolls,,those are the ones you will usually see a thread get nasty then closed. When you're seeing senior members who rarely say boo to a goose responding a little less than friendly,i might suggest to other senior members who would like to discuss it with them..pm the person,,they more than likely have a very good reason for the way they're posting. Sometimes it's like putting a puzzle together,,doesn't look like much until you see more of the picture.
  #23  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:20 PM
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I am also one of those that really never knew anything about what it really takes to be a responsible pet owner until I found this site and it prompted me to do more research out there on my own.

I had two cats in high school, both of which were outside, and both died as a result of a dog attack. The last one had been killed just days after she gave birth. I was clueless, and I have to say so where my parents. They both grew up in Cuba, and their families had farms, where dogs and cats were kept outside and spaying and neutering wasn't the norm.

When I got Vlad he was a little wee thing, so I came here and found out about the benefits of neutering.

I think many people just don't want to do the research and are plain lazy, and yet others live by what they observed their parents doing. Saying you don't have the money to spend when there are many low cost alternatives isn't an excuse. I could have taken mine to get S&N for $20 at the animal shelter, but at the time I had the money and wanted them to be at the vets office which has 24/7 staff.

There are so many things I see and read that make me think, "This is the 21st century! We are living in a George Jetson society, and yet some people seem to be stuck in Fred Flintstone's world."
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  #24  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post

Then there are others who will do what the heck they please, doesn't matter what is "frowned upon" in society, doesn't matter how nice you are. If you don't agree with what they want to hear, then being nice isn't going to make one bit of difference.
This is such a good point, L4H. Sometimes I think people have their minds made up and there is no convincing them eitheir way. No matter how many statistics, articles, etc. you provide, their mind is already made up and there is no changing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aslan View Post
Yes it is entirely possible for someone to not have all the information they need,,,mind you what information is available today as opposed to 5-10yrs ago is hugely different. I do find it harder to believe that you can go anywhere without knowing atleast a little something about the need to spay/neuter. It is all over tv,papers,etc now adays,,for years Bob Barker ended the price is right with a plea to spay/neuter your pets..but even so,,ok you don't know all the pro's and cons about the topic..don't you think you should find out before
deciding to breed?
This is my thoughts too, aslan. I agree that you have to dig a little deep to find information, I think it is readily available. We have a wealth of information (some good, some bad) at our fingertips, if one chooses to look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ancientgirl View Post
I think many people just don't want to do the research and are plain lazy, and yet others live by what they observed their parents doing. Saying you don't have the money to spend when there are many low cost alternatives isn't an excuse. I could have taken mine to get S&N for $20 at the animal shelter, but at the time I had the money and wanted them to be at the vets office which has 24/7 staff.

There are so many things I see and read that make me think, "This is the 21st century! We are living in a George Jetson society, and yet some people seem to be stuck in Fred Flintstone's world."
Love this quote! I think people do become lazy, or just follow what has always been done and don't question it. I think many people who are buying dogs from BYB's, pet stores, etc. or feeding their pet crappy food, really don't think they are doing anything wrong, they don't know any better. So certainly education is the key here. Still when it comes to spaying and neutering, I have talked to people who do know better, but they don't have it done because it's too expensive, or they never get around to it, or they just can't bear to see their males dogs testicles removed, etc. etc.
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  #25  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:42 PM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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I think what's happening is so many more people have internet access and are using it to find places like this to ask questions. You're seeing them more and probably so are other sites. I know the medical type sites I read have the same thing - more people asking questions online.


The key is the "hook". Getting people to stay.

If you decide right off the hop that this person is "going to do what they want anyway" - you lose an opportunity. Because maybe they will continue to do what they want, for a while and then learn. Or maybe they will continue to do what they want on that issue, stay here and learn about some other aspect of pet care.

If they post their initial question and you don't approve of how they are raising their pet, and show it--- Responses that start with Ummmm and then a disagreement, or just plain old blunt disdain for their practice, for example - they will leave. They'll think poorly of this forum and the people here. Then they won't read any other threads or talk to people in the forum, get to know the people here and learn more. That's really too bad.

I've seen a lot of newbies that get less welcoming responses to their initial question and then don't post again. And I haven't been here that long.
  #26  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:54 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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usually you'll get a less than freindly response if,,,,you just joined a pro spay/neuter forum and start a thread titled something like,,,is it almost time,,,my dog is oozing green stuff,,how do i get my male to mount my female,,,i am totally serious these are actual threads that have been posted here..the first two,, are totally immediate vet attention not something we can handle..the last well being a pro spay/neuter forum few members would know how to help that one out and those that do aren't really going to be willing.

There are a couple threads that i can think of on this forum off the top of my head dealing totally with information on breeding,,pro's and cons of spay neuter,,etc..the members that on a daily basis that are cleaning up after the people that are still not having their pets fixed are plain old tired..it's easy to say,,take a break then...sometimes they're the last stop for an animal before it is destroyed,,so they can't..
  #27  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassiek View Post
or they just can't bear to see their males dogs testicles removed, etc. etc.
OMG, this excuse drives me crazy! I recently met a guy online that had two Sharpei, both un-neutered. Why? He didn't want to break their spirit.

Huh? That to me is the dumbest excuse ever.
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  #28  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:58 PM
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No kidding! I have a neutered male kitty - BELIEVE ME, he has lots of spirit!!!!
  #29  
Old September 30th, 2010, 12:59 PM
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I think people come here asking questions because there is so much information out there, it is almost too much. That's why I came here. I wanted to know what other people had chosen and why (about many things).
You can search spaying and neutering and you find articles saying spay/neuter as early as possible, don't because it's bad for the animals health, do spay/neuter but wait x amount of time. It's confusing, you have no idea what articles are reliable, what are recent and what's old. Which point of view should you listen to?
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  #30  
Old September 30th, 2010, 01:00 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
No kidding! I have a neutered male kitty - BELIEVE ME, he has lots of spirit!!!!
yup i have an 110lb golden who when the humans playfight,,yup his spirit is right there,,,usually humping along to the theme of the loan ranger...
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