How do you tell a reputable breeder from a puppy mill?

[MorahMommy]

We are thinking of getting a puppy. There are so many ads in the paper and on-line. How do you tell if it's a reputable breeder or a puppy mill? What are the signs to look for?

[Puppyluv]

chances are, if its in an ad, its a byb or a puppy mill
i'll go look for the link for tell tale signs

[RVT092481]

As Puppyluv said, a lot of reputable breeders won't advertise in the paper. If your looking for a purebred dog, your best resource is the CKC (or AKC if in USA). The Dogs In Canada website/books list all the CKC registered breeders by breed. Both parents should be viewable in person or pictures (if sperm from stud dog) and up to date on vaccines, depending on breed they should have hips/elbows/eyes certified and papers should be given to you as well. You can start there and word of mouth is best as well.
Do you know what breed you're looking for? I'm sure that lots of people can recommend good breeders.

[White Wolf]

Here is a sticky from the breed discussion forum that might be helpful.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18613

[Puppyluv]

Originally Posted by White Wolf

Here is a sticky from the breed discussion forum that might be helpful.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18613

thats the one i was looking for! Thanks WW!

[lezzpezz]

Classified ad in today's paper under "pets":

Pet Zone (Sarnia) Snoodles, ShiPoos, Bichons, Cockapoos, Puggles, Beagle-Bull dogs, Shih Tzus, Golden Doodle, Wheatie-poos and Cairn terriers coming soon. (Phone #)

I couldn't help but notice that these are mostly what one may consider "mutts", all mishmashed cutsie designer "breeds". And where do we suppose they come from?? You got it....puppymill, BYB, and they are plentiful and mass produced. Just look at the sheer volume of available dogs at this one store! Always in stock, with more to follow....

Does this make you think??

[lezzpezz]

Anyone on this forum ever check out this Sarnia pet store, *******?? Does anyone know where the dogs in question come from and/or have you seen the kennel that they originated from? Has it ever been investigated or reported?

I'd be interested to see what they would say when asked:

1) where do your dogs/cats come from?
2) Is the 'breeder' a responsible person? Of course, they'll say "Oh yes!"
3) are the animals vet checked prior to sale? Vaccinated? Dewormed? Clean bill of health with proof??

That kind of thing.

[lotus]

Let me start by saying I know this thread is old.
I have been in this store and it is disgusting the smell will knock you out.
I also feel that these puppies no doubt come from a mill.
My friend went in and asked those questions and was told info on the pups was confidential when the person insisted to know, they were asked to leave the store.
A family member bought one of their pups cost them $1000 in vet bills 24 hours after they got it. The heath guarantee is just a line they feed you as family member got no help with their vet bill just an offer of free dog food.(1 bag)
When it comes to buying a puppy from here buyer beware.

[Sabine]

Best way to go about buying a pup from a breeder: Word of mouth.
Attend a couple of dog-shows and talk to breeders and have handlers recommend breeders to you.
The alternative: There are a lot of breed rescues out there who would be more than happy to adopt a puppy out to you.

[lawgrl77]

One of the best ways is to ask for pictures. Pictures of the puppies, the mom and dad, the place...a reputable breeder will be happy to send you pictures and if you see clean, happy, healthy looking animals you'll know it's the right place.

I've gotten several animals from breeders (and adpoted several too) and the best breeders are the ones who breed out of their own home and raise the animals as part of their families (and don't treat them like a cash cow...so to speak). These breeders are always (in my experience) happy to have you visit and happy to send pictures.

So ask for pictures and by all means do not hesitate to visit the breeder...you'll know a puppy mill when you see it.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Sabine

Best way to go about buying a pup from a breeder: Word of mouth.
Attend a couple of dog-shows and talk to breeders and have handlers recommend breeders to you.
The alternative: There are a lot of breed rescues out there who would be more than happy to adopt a puppy out to you.

Thanks for saying this. So true. You would not believe how many purebreds are in rescue and shelters. My sister just got a 9 week old black pug from the SPCA. I am certain that the little fellow is not from a renouned breeder...but he is absolutely gorgeous and in good health. The best time of year to get a purebred puppy from a rescue or shelter is after X-Mas, after Valentines day and just after moving season (September/October/November). Pathetic isn't it.

You can always make an application out with a rescue and once you are approved they will advise you when a pup comes in. You will be saving alot of $$ and you will also save a life.

[allfurlove]

Here is a pretty good explanation of BYB vs Reputable breeder

http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/byb_vs_rp.pdf

If they are breeding more than one breed of dog, or have multiple litters at once, they are probably a puppy mill.

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by allfurlove

If they are breeding more than one breed of dog at once, they are probably a puppy mill.

Ummm not really.I know many "ethical" breeders who will have 2 different breeds,even three.But these dogs are health/genetic tested and titled to Ch and other titles.My sisters Sibe breeder also showed and titled Boxers.I know that for a facked cause I was the one who was dealling with this breeder and did the checks of the kennel and got in touch with other breeders about this breeder.

Also,ethical breeders will ask you a ton of question.Actually it's almost like your adopting a child.

they should never ever be bought from a pet store.

[goldengal]

I seldom post, but did feel I had to speak up on this one. Our first Golden Retriever back in 1984 came from what I now know was a BYB. Duke lived to be 13 with very little health issues other than 2 sebacious cysts which we had removed. He was the joy of the neighbourhood.

Our second Golden who was rehomed to us at almost age 3 came from a reputable breeder. He had hypothyroidism and hip dysplasia. He died suddenly just short of 10 years.

My present Golden comes from a reputable, although small breeder. Her sire is from a large reputable, and long living Golden line. In her first two years I spent $4000 on vet bills - all unrelated. One incident was due to an accident in the yard next door when she was only 8 months old so definitely nothing genetic. She has a pink nose year round and jowls that drool like a Saints, but she is gorgeous.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is, unless we are heading for the show ring, no matter how good the genetics are s--- happens.

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by goldengal

I seldom post, but did feel I had to speak up on this one. Our first Golden Retriever back in 1984 came from what I now know was a BYB. Duke lived to be 13 with very little health issues other than 2 sebacious cysts which we had removed. He was the joy of the neighbourhood.

Our second Golden who was rehomed to us at almost age 3 came from a reputable breeder. He had hypothyroidism and hip dysplasia. He died suddenly just short of 10 years.

My present Golden comes from a reputable, although small breeder. Her sire is from a large reputable, and long living Golden line. In her first two years I spent $4000 on vet bills - all unrelated. One incident was due to an accident in the yard next door when she was only 8 months old so definitely nothing genetic. She has a pink nose year round and jowls that drool like a Saints, but she is gorgeous.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is, unless we are heading for the show ring, no matter how good the genetics are s--- happens.

You are right - no matter how good the genetics are, stuff happens. Just out of curiosity - how much of that $4,000 in vet bills was spent on issues that are genetic or hereditary?

However, if you make sure that you only buy from an ETHICAL breeder - who tests and certifies things like hips, elbows, thyroid, etc. then the chances of crippling or fatal stuff happening is greatly decreased.

IMHO - there is a HUGE difference between REPUTABLE and ETHICAL. I have met several breeders of many different breeds who have great reputations for pumping out lovely pups that do well in the show ring. But they do not do any genetic testing and are, shall we say, less then careful when screening homes for pups. An ethical breeder will do everything humanly possible to make sure that any puppies they sell not only meet the breed standard but are as healthy as possible and will live long, happy lives in wonderful families.

[goldengal]

Hi LavenderRott .... No, really none of Momtana's problems were genetic, but I suppose I was trying to say the pink nose (not snow nose) and loose jowls do not comform to the breed standard, but I just carry a face cloth to wipe her off when we are on walks. Just today she was groomed, and we went next door to our vet's to get weighed, and Montana knows she gets the good Rollover treats. They know enough that they have to wash their hands right after giving her treats. Did I expect this from a golden with it being my third?No. I don't love her any less, but I am still saying she came from good breeding, but does not fit into the standard (unfortunately, I explain her short comings at the vet's much the same as I did with my girls in school). I wouldn't trade her for anythng though.

Pat

[katherine93]

Originally Posted by allfurlove

If they are breeding more than one breed of dog, or have multiple litters at once, they are probably a puppy mill.

My nany breeds samoyeds, siberians, and malamutes, she isnt a byb nor does she runa a puppy mill, she is passoinate about all three breeds .

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by katherine93

My nany breeds samoyeds, siberians, and malamutes, she isnt a byb nor does she runa a puppy mill, she is passoinate about all three breeds .

So. We can assume by this statement that your Grandmother shows her dogs to championships, participates in activities with the dogs that are appropriate for what they were bred for and makes sure to breed dogs that have had all the appropriate health tests and certifications needed to prevent the passing on of crippling or fatal genetic health issues.

[katherine93]

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

So. We can assume by this statement that your Grandmother shows her dogs to championships, participates in activities with the dogs that are appropriate for what they were bred for and makes sure to breed dogs that have had all the appropriate health tests and certifications needed to prevent the passing on of crippling or fatal genetic health issues.

Yes, Why would she breed them if she werent trying to better the breeds?

[Dingo]

She must be incredibly busy. And/or very rich.

[catlover2]

Originally Posted by MorahMommy

We are thinking of getting a puppy. There are so many ads in the paper and on-line. How do you tell if it's a reputable breeder or a puppy mill? What are the signs to look for?

I'm new to this forum, but I would like to make a comment about Puppy Mills. They don't always sell through pet stores. What I've noticed is that people who run these ads in papers are "agents" for puppy mills....they have frequent ads, often with different pups--usually they are the little "designer" breeds, such as cockapoos, yorkiepoos, another week or so schnauzers, maltese, peekapoos etc. Sometimes, these sellers claim to have a "health guarantee", and they are never sold already neutered or spayed. If you ask about the parentage of the pups, you'll probably get a story like I did, that they don't know but it's a favour "for a friend who lives up north, and Toronto people won't drive that far to see the pups".

If you buy a "designer" pup from a newspaper ad, you are supporting puppy mills or backyard breeders.