Puppy VS Adult

[Myka]

I have been kind of looking at getting a med/large (40-80 lbs) Bully breed dog again now that Myka is gone.

I have been looking on Kijiji at puppies and older dogs, online at SPCAs within a 10 hour drive, and also at the local SPCA. The local SPCA hasn't been very helpful. I have poked around Bully "rescues" nearby, but haven't found much. I have looked at a couple litters of pups, a few older dogs, and been to the SPCA three times.

I would like to get an adult dog, or even a senior. I am generally not interested in a used dog between the ages of 3 months to 2 years. I will definitely get another Bully breed. I would prefer it to not be a purebred. I have been interested in such mixes like Am Bulldog/APBT, Boston Terrier/APBT, I also saw some Am Bulldog/Coonhounds that looked very nice, but may be too big. Since I live in Saskatoon and my family lives in BC the dog needs to be under 80 lbs so flying the dog in cargo is a potential option (although quite likely never done).

Here's the situation; my SO's Chihuahua lives in the house, my brother has young kids (5 and 3), as well as my SO has a young neice (1). It is absolutely imperative that a new addition to the house is 100% good with the Chihuahua (as well as other dogs), and kids. I'm not ready to make a move yet, but I'm wondering how people have dealt with this in the past, and how they have made out. I want to wait until late spring/early summer before getting a dog because the Chi needs more work, and also because I think it's easier to do introductions and training when you have a yard you can use.

The kids and small dog are the only reason that I would potentially get a puppy as I am worried about introducing a large dog to this. And what if there are issues with the Chi or the kids after I adopt the dog? When looking at "used" dogs (I don't like the word "rescue", it's used too loosely), how do you know for sure that the dog will be ok with kids and a very small dog without the potential of someone getting injured?

I think it is in the Chi's and the kid's best interest to get a puppy so it can be raised around the kids and Chi, as well as get ongoing socialization from a young age. I have also found puppies easier to train than adults. However, since I am looking for a mixed breed dog I have moral issues buying a mixed breed puppy from a BYB, and would rather give an older dog a new chance at life. So, who's best interest do I pick?

What do you guys think about this subject? How have you guys dealt with a large older dog being introduced to smaller dogs and kids? What have your experiences been? How do I find an older dog that will be a good match?

[Bailey_]

I have a two year old daughter and dogs and cats in my home. When we started to foster, it was one of the conditions; that any dog coming into my home would be 'ok' with children and other animals.

I think an important thing to remember is that it certainly is not impossible to find a dog that loves little kids, and is great with other animals; however - you have to remember that the search becomes more difficult and takes a lot longer, if you reduce yourself to a certain breed. It's just that simple. There may be many dogs available in your location that would be perfect for your family, but they just might not be anything bully.

I guess my question is, does it really *matter* if your new addition has bully in it?

I think sometimes the important thing to remember is that unless you are enirely sold on a certain breed (and don't get me wrong, there is nothing with wanting a certain breed or breed traits in a future pet ) it's great to keep an open mind, judging a dog based on the dogs temperment - history - and personality, especially when rescuing is involved.

[Myka]

Hi Bailey, thanks or your help.

Most of the dogs I have met so far have "come in as strays" so they don't know how they are with kids, and they don't seem to test the dogs with other dogs of a dramatically different size.

I have always loved the Bully breeds. They are smart, loyal, trusting, and really develop a strong bond with their owner. It's tough to pick descriptive words though because you could say that about many breeds, but Bullies are different.

I have been looking at some other breeds online, but really haven't found anything I'm particularly attracted to. I want a dog with a single layered, short coat. Maybe you could suggest some breeds? Maybe there is something I haven't thought of. Some breeds I have thought of: Jack Russel Terrorist, Thai Ridgeback, Basenji. I just wish these dogs were bigger! I'm really not a fan of small dogs. I like smart dogs that are easy to train (Basenji would not be the best choice). In an aesthetic point of view, I like dogs with white chests and feet.

[Bailey_]

Suggestion - have you thought about a german shorthaired pointer? Or a Greyhound X?

We recently had a beautiful and incredibly smart Greyhound/Lab in our home and she was so eager to please, and gentle.

I agree with you that bully breeds are wonderful; we have an american bulldog and I have to admit that he is probably one of the sweetest dogs I've ever seen interact with our daughter.

I'm a firm believer that our dogs 'find us' all. So I suppose my only thought is to just keep your eye open and don't overlook something at first glance. Meeting a dog is often the best way to let them win your heart over.

[Myka]

Yes, I do think the right dog will "find" me. Myka did. She was SO right.

I'm not particularly interested in pointers, but actually I have thought of Greyhounds, and I was going to include them in my list of "thinking of" breeds, but I forgot.

[bendyfoot]

If you could get your hands on a stable, mature, socialized older dog (they do exist) from a rescue/shelter...I think it would be best. I'm thinking purely of that little chi brat I think it would be great to have a good, mature role model for him, rather than bring in a puppy who could learn all his bad habits

[Myka]

Ah yes Bendy that is another thing that I forgot to mention! That is a HUGE fear! If I had a large version of P I think I might keel over. LOL P is getting much, much better though.

Albeit we had a bratty Sheltie when I was growing up, and Myka didn't learn her bad habits. I think dogs do learn that just because Rover can do it doesn't mean they can.

[Kay9]

I've tussled with this very same dilemma and, although I didn't end up adopting because other parts of my life changed, I understand it.

From what I've read about your little Chi, he would probably do better with a female who wasn't dominant, or if a purebreed, a female that was more inclined to be tolerant of pesty little kids (and Chi's). If you do decide to adopt, bring the little ones--canine and human--to visit with the dog and see how it goes.

It seems like you, and by extension your family AND future dog, are doing a lot of contortions for this little guy. There's no right or wrong answer, but maybe rehoming peewee should still be on the table.

[Love4himies]

BenMax has connections with rescues across Canada, I am pretty sure if you PM her when you are ready, she may be able to put you in contact with a rescue that is very reputable and would do the appropriate temperament testing.

I wish you luck.

[Myka]

Hi Kay9, thanks for your input. P has really come leaps and bounds. Putting him in his place as bottom of the pack instead of the big bluff of a pack leader he thought he was has really made a big improvement (although all morning he's been trying to hump his best buddy the SO's parents' male Shih-Tzu that's visiting for the weekend). I thought a non-dominant male would be the best choice since I think male dogs are more inclined to get along with other dogs? I would be able to bring P to meet a potential dog, but not the kids (they don't live nearby).

Love4himies, thanks for your suggestion!

Some other breeds I have been looking at are Greyhound crosses (to make it smaller), and Whippets. They both seem like they have the type of personality that I would bond well with.

[Golden Girls]

Myka have you thought of fostering for your local SPCA or help a rescue in your area - if it's a good match you can apply to adopt?

[cassiek]

Hi Myka,

I think Golden Girls gave a good suggestion.. what about fostering a dog and if the dog works well with P and the kids, looking into adopting him/her?

Another option that came to my mind, was trying a rescue group that the dogs are fostered in homes. Maybe you can find a dog that is being fostered in a home where there are other dogs and young children - they will be able to tell you how the dog is!

(I used to live in Saskatoon, and New Hope Dog Rescue does this - all their dogs are fostered in homes. I actually fostered a few dogs through them and they are a great group!)

Good luck, and glad to hear things with P are going better!!

[Myka]

Fostering isn't such a bad idea except I wouldn't know if the dog would be ok with P until it was in the house already, and that could be pretty detrimental to P.

Thanks for the recommendation on the rescue Cassie! I have seen them around, but haven't been interested in any of their dogs yet, so I haven't dealt with them at all. I will look closer a them.

[Golden Girls]

Originally Posted by Myka

Fostering isn't such a bad idea except I wouldn't know if the dog would be ok with P until it was in the house already, and that could be pretty detrimental to P.

That would be kinda the idea, once you find what your looking for b4 committing you'd have the opportunity to see if he/she fits in with P as well all the while opening your home & helping with a dog that may otherwise not have a chance because space in both shelters & foster homes are so limited.

btw how did PeeWee get along with Myka?

[Golden Girls]

In response to your question

Originally Posted by Kay9

From what I've read about your little Chi, he would probably do better with a female who wasn't dominant, or if a purebreed, a female that was more inclined to be tolerant of pesty little kids (and Chi's)

I very much agree with this statement.

[Myka]

I thought neutered male dogs get along with other dogs better than females? /not only does a new dog need to get along with P, s/he needs to get along with other dogs too.

At first, if Peewee was on the floor or in the yard he would avoid Myka. If he was near a person or on our laps he would turn himself inside out having a fit of snapping, growling, and shaking. He would look very vicious, and completely enraged with his back up and his head down, teeth bared, and would get so wound up that he would start choking on his saliva. If he didn't have someone there (he didn't care who it was) fending for him he was a weenie, and scooted away from her with his tail between his legs.

As Peewee's aggression lessened from training and time he got used to Myka (a couple moths), and he would try to get her to play. She would then try to play back, but then he would get scared and run. They played cat and mouse around the living room table though.

Myka just ignored him when he snapped at her except the one time he snapped and got the end of her nose, and she snapped back (she made more noise than anything). She didn't even make any contact with him, and he peed himself.

[Kay9]

Originally Posted by Myka

I thought neutered male dogs get along with other dogs better than females? /not only does a new dog need to get along with P, s/he needs to get along with other dogs too.

At first, if Peewee was on the floor or in the yard he would avoid Myka. If he was near a person or on our laps he would turn himself inside out having a fit of snapping, growling, and shaking. He would look very vicious, and completely enraged with his back up and his head down, teeth bared, and would get so wound up that he would start chocking on his saliva. If he didn't have someone there (he didn't care who it was) fending for him he was a weenie, and scooted away from her with his tail between his legs.

As Peewee's aggression lessened from training and time he got used to Myka (a couple moths), and he would try to get her to play. She would then try to play back, but then he would get scared and run. They played cat and mouse around the living room table though.

Myka just ignored him when he snapped at her except the one time he snapped and got the end of her nose, and she snapped back (she made more noise than anything). She didn't even make any contact with him, and he peed himself.

Honest to goodness human Myka, you are my hero! This post just cracked me up and says volumes about your dedication (and skill)!

What a little character he is!

[Myka]

Ack, I can't believe I spelling "choking" wrong though...

I am glad you got a chuckle out of it! It was hard to not laugh at P when he choked on his own saliva. What a dork.

[Golden Girls]

Your prefer to use the word "used dogs" because you feel the word "rescue" is used to loosely I'll bite what's up with that?

Originally Posted by Myka

I thought neutered male dogs get along with other dogs better than females? /not only does a new dog need to get along with P, s/he needs to get along with other dogs too

Considering you definately want to adopt a bully breed (sturdy) between 40-80 lbs and PeeWee being what 5 lbs (a little dominant & possessive) I think you'd be better looking into a "confidant" female whom your little Chi wouldn't feel so threatened. IMO adding a male to this mix will surely be asking for Trouble!

[Myka]

It seems like everyone wants to term their dog a "rescue". Maybe to make them feel good that they "saved" an animal or something? Not every dog in a shelter is facing death, and not every dog in a shelter has come from a poor life. Maybe people think they are "saving" the animal from their life in the shelter...? Many people terms all dogs (and cats) from a shelter as "rescued", which isn't always the case. It bugs me in the same way those awful cutsie designer names for mutts bug me. That's all.

Here I was under the impression that most females will be fairly dominant and therefore not the best option, and that a neutered male would be more likely to be a submissive housemate for P. Everyone on here seems to think a female would be better though. I've never had a male dog, so I was kind of looking forward to that idea. P is big for a Chi, he's about 7 1/2 lbs.

[Kay9]

Originally Posted by Myka

Here I was under the impression that most females will be fairly dominant and therefore not the best option, and that a neutered male would be more likely to be a submissive housemate for P. Everyone on here seems to think a female would be better though. I've never had a male dog, so I was kind of looking forward to that idea. P is big for a Chi, he's about 7 1/2 lbs.

The usual advice is (and experience does bear out) that when you have a dominant dog, get a passive dog of the opposite sex.

You never know though--your little peewee might surprise us all!

[Myka]

Ok. Ya, Peewee is full of surprises.

[Bailey_]

Maybe to make them feel good that they "saved" an animal or something?

Uh, what?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even IF someone adopts a dog or puppy or cat that isn't on deaths door and didn't come from a bad previous home; they're still making room for another animal who might be.

To me, that IS rescuing.

[Golden Girls]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

Uh, what?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even IF someone adopts a dog or puppy or cat that isn't on deaths door and didn't come from a bad previous home; they're still making room for another animal who might be.

To me, that IS rescuing.

Agree. A rescue = a homeless animal. Calling homeless animals "used" just doesn't sound so good ya know?

[cassiek]

I see both sides... of the "rescued" animal term.

While not every dog in a shelter will be PTS, they still are not living in the most ideal situation IMO. We provide the very best care we can and goodness knows we sure do spoil them to death, but I believe they still miss out on many important aspects of living in an actual home where the owners can dedicate more time to the animal (i.e. pursue obedience training, socialization etc - all things we don't have the resources or volunteers to do). And while yes, there are a few that have not come from a terrible life, I would argue that most have (at least for the rescues I work with, I can't speak for all). Although it may not be physical abuse (i.e. starvation, forced to have multiple litters, health issues ignored etc), I believe alot of these animals are psychologically abused (i.e. ignored because a baby came into the picture, not given the attention they deserve etc). Physical wounds heal, but the emotional state some of these animals come in is just heart-breaking as their soul has been broken into itty bitty pieces, and it takes time for them to trust again. Again, there are a few animals that haven't come from a poor life and the owners circumstances were exceptional. For example, we just had 3 smaller dogs come in that had to be surrendered as the owner has been suddenly diagnosed with a fatal illness and can no longer care for them... these dogs are s/n, vaccinated etc. defaintly NOT the same ol story.

On the other hand, I agree with Myka... alot of people do use the term "rescue" loosely and its not always the most accurate term. For example, I have heard of people that bought a puppy from PetLand that they call a "rescue" since they "saved" the animal in their mind... IMO NOT a "rescue"! But to me any dog/cat that is adopted from an actual rescue (humane society, SPCA etc. a LEGIT organization!) the animal has been rescued... as we now opened up another space for another animal to come in!

Just my thoughts.

[BenMax]

Such a hang up on a word really. I have to tell you that in rescue we do not necessarily rescue dogs and cats as some are from owners who no longer want - that is not a rescue. Going to kill pounds that gasses dogs, shelters that will euthanize due to overpopulation or due to medical or behavioural problems - that to me is considered a rescue animal due to the possible and probably fate of the said pet. A 'rescue' is going to shelters after the puppymill either surrenders the dogs or looses out in court. The HS 'rescued' the animals and the rescues 'rescues' the animals that do not pass for adoption and therefore slated for euthanasia. But in saying this, there are individuals that also rescue and are not part of the rescue groups or shelters. If we use 14+K for example -she rescues by helping animals that have been abandoned and left to perish. That in my view is the most selfless thing a human being can do. Individuals who are not getting any financial assistance from the public or the government are living financial hardships and yet keep plugging away. In my eyes - that is not only a rescuer, but a selfless individual. For those that have stopped at the side of the highway in the middle of no where for an obvious abandoned animal, put the animal in your car and either kept the animal or gave him/her to an organization - that is a rescue.

In the end, for me anyways, getting any animal from a rescue group or shelter - you are this animals saviour. No matter how you interpret this in your mind - hold onto it as you have given one deserving animal a home, and another ....safe haven. For them, they are rescued.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Such a hang up on a word really. I have to tell you that in rescue we do not necessarily rescue dogs and cats as some are from owners who no longer want - that is not a rescue. Going to kill pounds that gasses dogs, shelters that will euthanize due to overpopulation or due to medical or behavioural problems - that to me is considered a rescue animal due to the possible and probably fate of the said pet. A 'rescue' is going to shelters after the puppymill either surrenders the dogs or looses out in court. The HS 'rescued' the animals and the rescues 'rescues' the animals that do not pass for adoption and therefore slated for euthanasia. But in saying this, there are individuals that also rescue and are not part of the rescue groups or shelters. If we use 14+K for example -she rescues by helping animals that have been abandoned and left to perish. That in my view is the most selfless thing a human being can do. Individuals who are not getting any financial assistance from the public or the government are living financial hardships and yet keep plugging away. In my eyes - that is not only a rescuer, but a selfless individual. For those that have stopped at the side of the highway in the middle of no where for an obvious abandoned animal, put the animal in your car and either kept the animal or gave him/her to an organization - that is a rescue.

In the end, for me anyways, getting any animal from a rescue group or shelter - you are this animals saviour. No matter how you interpret this in your mind - hold onto it as you have given one deserving animal a home, and another ....safe haven. For them, they are rescued.

Well said.

[Golden Girls]

Originally Posted by Myka

Here I was under the impression that most females will be fairly dominant and therefore not the best option, and that a neutered male would be more likely to be a submissive housemate for P. Everyone on here seems to think a female would be better though. I've never had a male dog, so I was kind of looking forward to that idea. P is big for a Chi, he's about 7 1/2 lbs.

To give an example of why I feel a female would be best in your situation with PeeWee. I have a very dominant 6 mth old 7 lb Chin who would hump a horse, growl, kick and want at any dog. Anyway over x'mas holidays I was fostering a 3 yr old female Golden/Spaniel who was pulled from euthanization. She was obviously terrified but not submissive - he bowed danced and flirted with her, it was awesome to see he can be nice She would just give him that look and he would run. With my golden who is confident he'll hump her tail if she's sleeping that's about it.

[My Lodi Girl]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

I'm a firm believer that our dogs 'find us' all.

I believe this too. Just keep browsing kiiji, petfinder.com and rescue/used dog sites. You will know when you have found "your" dog. You will keep going back to it and will not be able to quit thinking about it.

A LOT of dogs placed in foster homes with rescues are already socialized and their temperament is pretty well known especially if they have been in the foster home for a while. Keep in mind that NO dog is predictable.

[Myka]

Thank you for continued responses.