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Old July 2nd, 2009, 01:44 AM
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Exclamation 2-part food question + teeth cleaning

With the price of GOOD pet food these days, I am thinking of switching to a lower priced canned food until I find a job to be able to keep buying raw. Do you think Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys would be an ok alternative for a few months? Here is the ingredient list: http://resources.petsmart.com/produc...antmedleys.pdf

Also, on a side note, I've seen a decline in Forest over the past week. He's getting older (15 now) and I've seen him walk slower, make himself more comfortable slower, taking more time to calculate his jumps(our bed is a bit high but he looks like he struggles a lot) and not eating much. At GPF, where we have been purchasing food for them, they haven't had NV Chicken in the 48 1oz patty bags for about a month, and no trial bags (16 1oz patties) for 2 weeks, so we bought the big bag of 12 6oz patties. Now the directions say, for each 10lbs body weight feed 1/2 a patty/day. We have 2 cats so at feeding time they should get 1/6 each, 3 times a day. The thing is Gizzy is a horse and eats all his. But Forest seems to eat only 1/2 of his 1/6 unless I push treats into the rest, he won't really eat it, but if you shake the treat bags he would probably hork all he can down.

So instead of watching Forest waste his food everyday with limited amount of money coming in, is it feasible to cheap out for a little while? Any help is appreciated!

P.S. We had to get their annual shots a couple weeks ago, and the Vet said they may have to get their teeth done in a couple years (not so much Forest tho b/c of his age). Besides putting all of us through the stress of brushing their teeth, is there a treat out there that can help with this? Or perhaps something else anyone knows about?

Last edited by dollface; July 2nd, 2009 at 03:01 AM.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 01:06 PM
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I don't mind some of the Fancy Feast flavours, especially if it helps encourage a cat to eat more, but I'm not a fan of the Elegant Medleys. They all have wheat gluten in them, and are generally too high in carbohydrates (over 10% of calories). Much better are the gluten-free FF flavours found on this list: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm

You can save money on canned food by getting a case when Petsmart has one of their periodic sales, if you have a Pet Perks card. Because FF only comes in those little 3oz cans, it's sometimes cheaper per oz if you buy the really big (13oz?) cans of Wellness instead.

About those vaccines...... I really cringe when I hear about a vet still administering them annually to a cat of Forest's age. He seriously does not need them anymore, so don't let any vet convince you otherwise. Did the vet do any blood work or a urinalysis when they went for their shots?

The other thing is that Forest for sure has arthritis. 90% of cats over the age of 12 do, and by your description of his movement, I'd bet the farm that he's in some pain. You might want to look into a glucosamine/chondroitin supplements like Cosequin. They've really helped my cat over the last several years with his severe arthritis. Other options are acupuncture, MSM, Adequan injections, a heated cat bed, and some foot-stools placed in areas to help him jump up and down from things.

Hope that helps!
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 01:44 PM
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edwina edwina is offline
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Quote:
You might want to look into a glucosamine/chondroitin supplements like Cosequin.
Do you happen to know the dose for a cat / per pound ?? Also the MSM, because it comes with alot of the glucosamine/chondroitin suppliments. Thanks.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by edwina View Post
Do you happen to know the dose for a cat / per pound ?? Also the MSM, because it comes with alot of the glucosamine/chondroitin suppliments. Thanks.
Nutramax Labs (makers of Cosequin) has determined a dosing schedule of 125 mg of glucosamine and 100mg of chondroitin per day per cat over 5kg (half of that for cats less than 5kg). There is a 4-6 week loading period where you give double the maintanence dose (so 250mg glucosamine and 200mg chondroitin).

Regarding MSM, there are no established guidelines for its use in cats, but a general rule of about 1/10th the human dose is a good place to start. Here is what The Arthritis Foundation has to say about dosing for humans: http://ww2.arthritis.org/resources/a...plorations.asp

Quote:
Buy MSM only from an established company that you can be sure will stand by its products - and be wary of companies making “miracle” and other hyped claims. Start with a low dosage of 500 milligrams (mg) or less twice a day and gradually increase the amount until you notice some effect. Most sources suggest 1,000 mg (1 gram) twice a day. MSM is most often taken in capsules or dissolved in a liquid.
Be patient. But if you don’t see any difference after two months, you may never - and it may not be worth continuing to expose yourself to unknown risks. Tell your doctor if you get diarrhea, stomach upsets or mild cramps; these side effects are common, especially at higher doses. Lowering the dose may stop these symptoms.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
I don't mind some of the Fancy Feast flavours, especially if it helps encourage a cat to eat more, but I'm not a fan of the Elegant Medleys. They all have wheat gluten in them, and are generally too high in carbohydrates (over 10% of calories). Much better are the gluten-free FF flavours found on this list: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm
Damn those inviting commercials on tv! They really do a good job of deceiving us, eh? SCM you are the Queen of all Cat food and I'm soo glad you are here to offer your advice!

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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
You can save money on canned food by getting a case when Petsmart has one of their periodic sales, if you have a Pet Perks card. Because FF only comes in those little 3oz cans, it's sometimes cheaper per oz if you buy the really big (13oz?) cans of Wellness instead.
Yup, got a PetPerks card I'll be making trips at all pet stores this weekend while looking for some pet steps for Forest so I'll keep an eye out for the FF cases.

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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
About those vaccines...... I really cringe when I hear about a vet still administering them annually to a cat of Forest's age. He seriously does not need them anymore, so don't let any vet convince you otherwise. Did the vet do any blood work or a urinalysis when they went for their shots?
We don't normally do annual vaccines since they don't go outside, but because we went away in June for the weekend we took them to a Cat hotel and the Hotel required the certificates :|. No blood work/urinalysis when we took them. We only really had enough time/money for the vaccines. :sad:

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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
The other thing is that Forest for sure has arthritis. 90% of cats over the age of 12 do, and by your description of his movement, I'd bet the farm that he's in some pain. You might want to look into a glucosamine/chondroitin supplements like Cosequin. They've really helped my cat over the last several years with his severe arthritis. Other options are acupuncture, MSM, Adequan injections, a heated cat bed, and some foot-stools placed in areas to help him jump up and down from things.

Hope that helps!
Oh no! That's awful! :sad: I knew something else must be going on but couldn't put my finger on it til you just said it. Thank you again SCM for all your advice! You're the best!
Definately need some foot stools/pet steps for him. And possibly a new litter box http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store....p-flypage-1909

He peed on one of the pillows on the couch last week, so the Booda Dome with the ramp looks like it may help him a lot more. I just hope Gizzy doesn't mark it or make sure Forest can't use it

Gizzy hates it when Forest uses the cat tree to scratch so I guess Forest took the matter into his own paws and went after the couch. I didn't mind until one night a big R-R-R-R-I-P woke me out of my sleep. So I moved the cat tree from the corner of the room to beside the couch and as along as Gizzy doesn't see Forest using it, all is fine in the world lol

So another trip to the Vet to get checked out and possibly some meds for him.

Do you think if I just replace one of our litter boxes with the Booda Dome, will the cats know what it is for or they won't know until they explore it? Or do we put them in it so they know what to do?

Any dental treats out there that help with their teeth?
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dollface View Post
We don't normally do annual vaccines since they don't go outside, but because we went away in June for the weekend we took them to a Cat hotel and the Hotel required the certificates :|. No blood work/urinalysis when we took them. We only really had enough time/money for the vaccines. :sad:
Ahh, okay, I understand.


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Originally Posted by dollface View Post
Do you think if I just replace one of our litter boxes with the Booda Dome, will the cats know what it is for or they won't know until they explore it? Or do we put them in it so they know what to do?
Whenever I replace a litter box, I put some of the old litter from the previous box in the new one and that usually does the trick.

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Originally Posted by dollface View Post
Any dental treats out there that help with their teeth?
There are some enzyme treats called C.E.T. Chews or Enzadents which are about the size of a wine cork and can help minimize plaque buildup in some cats. My kitty goes absolutely crazy for them, to the point that I have to hold one end of it or else he tries to swallow them whole (and I have to watch my fingers, which are fair game for chomping on if they're in the way). They're pretty pricey if you get them from the vet, so I've been buying them online for half the price.

There's also an enzymatic gel called Biotene that might be more effective than the treats. I haven't personally tried it because my cat is very adamant that I don't touch his mouth, but I have heard good things. It's one of the better products out there along these lines.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 08:49 PM
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Thanks SCM I will look into the dental treats!

Went to Petcetera and they were all out of Cat stuff except for a few toys, so off we went to Petsmart and found a Calming cat collar for Gizzy ( hope it works) and were able to get some "Doggy Steps" for Forest. Not as high I would like but any height is better than nothing! I wasn't able to get the Bouda litter box though. OH talked me out of it until we absolutely need it since it is a lot bigger, probably would take up the space of 1.5 regular litter boxes.

Forest waits til mommy has more money to buy it for him before he needs it!
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Old July 6th, 2009, 02:29 PM
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My friend owns a horse and forbids anyone from feeding wet food b/c it's made with horse meat "cuz it's a delicacy" and the more expensive brands use it. I don't remember reading horse meat anywhere on any label (unless it's disguised very well).

Is it true that wet food is made with horse meat?
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Old July 6th, 2009, 05:21 PM
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Is it true that wet food is made with horse meat?
Not entirely true. It is possible that some of the cheaper grocery store brands that contain unnamed meat sources like "meat meal" or "meat by-products" could have horse mixed in (along with roadkill and euthanized pets) from the slop they get from rendering plants. But the foods that name the source of meat, like "chicken" or "beef", aren't going to contain horse.

So your friend is wrong about the expensive brands using specifically horse meat, at least in this country.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 05:55 PM
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While I know absolutely nothing about kitties, I do know that the makers of Cosequin make a formula with the MSM already added in - called Dasuquin. It is a bit more expensive and you can only get it from your vet.

You might want to do some research on the calming collar - some of those kinds of things can contain chemicals that are very harmful over the long run.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 06:55 PM
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While I know absolutely nothing about kitties, I do know that the makers of Cosequin make a formula with the MSM already added in - called Dasuquin.
Not meaning to nitpick, but Dasuquin doesn't actually contain MSM, it has something called ASU (avocado/soybean unsaponifiables), which is a little different. It is a great product though! http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/products...suquin_FAQ.asp
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Old July 6th, 2009, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Not entirely true. It is possible that some of the cheaper grocery store brands that contain unnamed meat sources like "meat meal" or "meat by-products" could have horse mixed in (along with roadkill and euthanized pets) from the slop they get from rendering plants. But the foods that name the source of meat, like "chicken" or "beef", aren't going to contain horse.

So your friend is wrong about the expensive brands using specifically horse meat, at least in this country.
I thought so! It doesn't make sense that the better brands of food who care about the diets of cats would use horse meat. Thanks SCM, on the ball again!

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You might want to do some research on the calming collar - some of those kinds of things can contain chemicals that are very harmful over the long run.
Good thing I kept the packaging! I really hope this helps him and doesn't harm him! It is the SentryHC Good Behavior Pheromone Collar. It is a Lavender Chamomile Fragrance. This one is for dogs but it looks the same as the one for cats: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3191645

Should I keep using it?
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Old July 7th, 2009, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Not meaning to nitpick, but Dasuquin doesn't actually contain MSM, it has something called ASU (avocado/soybean unsaponifiables), which is a little different. It is a great product though! http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/products...suquin_FAQ.asp
They actually have a formula for dogs with both ASU's and MSM or one with just the ASU's. I have the one with both since the ASU's have been proven to boost the power of the supplement and the addition of the MSM increases it as well. Because I don't have cats, I didn't realize that the cat formula did not have the MSM as an option so I apologize for the error.
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Last edited by kandy; July 7th, 2009 at 12:00 PM. Reason: forgot something.. :)
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Old July 7th, 2009, 12:04 PM
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I thought so! It doesn't make sense that the better brands of food who care about the diets of cats would use horse meat. Thanks SCM, on the ball again!



Good thing I kept the packaging! I really hope this helps him and doesn't harm him! It is the SentryHC Good Behavior Pheromone Collar. It is a Lavender Chamomile Fragrance. This one is for dogs but it looks the same as the one for cats: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3191645

Should I keep using it?
The ingredients say that it's 6% pheromones and 94% inert materials. I'd have to wonder about the inert ingredients. I know that pheromones can work, but I would wonder about having the other 94% in contact with her skin all the time. Is there a reason why you would choose the collar over a diffuser?
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Old July 7th, 2009, 01:56 PM
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We've had a lot of problems with Gizzy since the day we got him. He is 2 now and got him at 8 months.

He is a very light sleeper. If there is a loud noise, he wakes up and runs. If someone sneezes he wakes up. He hides when visitors come over. He just started coming around my bf instead of running away even if he walked near him, etc. There are more problems listed in this thread: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=62451

I was trying the Bach Essences and saw great results until we started them on the raw food and Forest started throwing up so not sure if it reacted with the raw food or not. And they don't eat their own plate so I didn't want to put the drops in both dishes if it didn't agree with Forest. I had told the Vet he was improving with the drops (when they were on the canned) and she totally ignored it and prescribed pills instead. Pills + Gizzy = an even more stressed out Gizzy. The plug-in I was reluctant to try this time, money is a little tight right now, collar = $15 and plug-in = $40, and we don't have many plugs left at the moment and it only works when he is in the room where it is working. Our place is pretty much open-concept and I would have to really just buy 2 for it to work all around, but the money issue comes into play again :sad:

On the package for cats that I still have, it doesn't say what ingredients are in it at all! but on their website it says it on the dog's collar. It's pretty much the same product so I don't know why they wouldn't specify the ingredients on the pkg. Should I remove it?
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Old July 7th, 2009, 05:20 PM
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Maybe you could contact the company and just ask what the ingredients are - both active and inert. I wouldn't tell them you are asking because you are concerned about safety - they are going to tell you it's safe and then claim that the exact ingredients are proprietary or something.

I just wonder because it used to be widely recommended to use flea collars on dogs and cats, and now we know that those things can have some pretty serious side effects.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 09:58 PM
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Will contact the company and update thanks

I think I missed the memo on the flea collars, what's wrong with them?
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Old July 8th, 2009, 12:02 AM
Jim Hall Jim Hall is offline
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flea collars and cats dont mix a lot of cats have various adverse reactions lavender is great for calming so is catnip
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