Excessive Breeding - a question of ethics

[Marty11]

I have to say, after joining this forum I can't wait to adopt a shelter dog. I have two busy bodies right now, but that is the way I will go next time. You guys have totally made me see the light...........

[Love4himies]

[QUOTE=Bisqueet;967077 It almost seems like these dogs find the ones that should have had them from the beginning, they're all certainly so happy to have found their forever home. My eyes have been opened and these people deserve a special place in heaven. At least I know there's hope.

[/QUOTE]


Oh yes, those pets who have been in homes that have been abusive or neglectful or even those who have been strays so appreciate their new homes and family. They give back ten fold in loyalty and unconditional love to their humans to show their appreciation .

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

Thanks mf!
Does anyone ever think we will see the day when it will start to pay off?

You are very welcome.

I hope that happens before I leave this world.


I know my educating with friends and co workers has paid off. I have a few friends who have/are showing, but have no plans on breeding.

Just wanted to add something. Ethical breeders have contract. A s/n contract and a non-breeding contract. So when someone says they want to breed their dog or they have a pregnant dog, that there tells me they did not get this dog from an ethical breeder. Ethical breeders don't want any Joe Blo continuing their lines. If I went against my neuter contract, I would have been taken to court and fined $5000. That cost was put in the contract. So all my boys were done at 6 months.

[shirley1011]

My contracts were always that way too Mona.....and I know when we were buying our male we paid $300.00 more for that right....and I have never had anyone who wanted to pay extra for the breeding contract and I check after the first year to make sure they have been neutered....

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by shirley1011

and I know when we were buying our male we paid $300.00 more for that right.

What age did you get him?

[erykah1310]

In my contract for my pups they had to spay/neuter before a year old. And once I recieved proof of this from their veterinarian, i sent back $200 to the owners.
There is only one that hasnt been done yet, (and Tibby of course cause shes mine)
If someone wanted a breeding potential pup from me, it is on co ownership, they can not register a litter out of their dog unless I signed off on the litter as well. Karma is on said co ownership as well. Her breeder and I agreed that once all her health testing was done she would drop off her paperwork. Her health testing has been done for some time now, but I'm just not in a rush to get her name off the paperwork.

My website clearly states we are not breeding this year and are uncertain about next year with detailed explanation of what our plans with the dogs are for the next year or two. Doesnt matter, people are still contacting me for puppies.
I know there is not likely going to be any Canadian litters for Tibetan Mastiffs this year as most of us are working dilegently to get out breed club up and running and with last year and the amount of families who backed out last minute. We're all pushing rescue.

Now on to the topic at hand. I'm sorry, anyone who knows me knows I am all for rescue, half of my dogs are rescues and even when I said "no more for a while" Elmo still wiggled his way into our hearts.
Thing is, I am proud to say I support code of ethics breeders and I really dont see any sign of me not purchasing again. Mixed breeds and shelter dogs are great pets, and give just as much love and respect as a puppy from a top line, but after Puppy man, I dont like the uncertanty of health. I dont like not knowing anything about the parents or lines. If I'm paying for a dog, I'm going to make sure all proper steps have been taken that it has a better chance of not having inherit defects.
Take Elmo for instance. I dont know if he's out of "prized" fighting lines, so i have no idea what to expect out of him as far of his dog agression which is starting with him. Unfortunately for him, I have to just go with the presumption that he is out of said lines. Kita I have no idea if she is from lines riddled with HD/ED, CM, eye problems, cancer ect. At her age now I am watching her like a hawk.
I know Meiko is out of good working lines somewhere in his pedigree, after talking to many Border Collie people.
I personally dont like not knowing what to expect out of my dogs, to some extent. I have my dogs for life, and always have so forgive me for not rescuing my last few ('cept Elmo of course )

[TeriM]

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

I guess there is no answer except trying to educate. Does anyone ever think we will see the day when it will start to pay off?

Judging by a few of the responses in this thread I would say that it is already paying off at a few good people at a time .

This issue is something I have been researching a lot lately. I will likely be buying a puppy sometime next spring. I have become very interested in competitive dog sports (rally, obedience and agility) and unfortunately without having a registered breed it is very difficult to find competitions. The majority of competitions on the west coast are CKC rules and only allow registered dogs.

I have found a breeder in Ontario that is a member of the breed club of Canada board as well as the Ontario board. She trials her dogs regularly in multiple sports and requires all her puppies to work towards at least one title and complete three 6-8 week obedience sessions in the first year. The application form is five pages long. Her dogs are tested for all eyes/hips/throid etc. The dog I am interested in was breed at age 4 and will have her second/final litter two years later which will be this spring. My obedience instructor also is a friend of hers and highly recommends her. There is a four year health guarantee and a lifetime return policy. This is the type of stuff we should all demand from the breeder we choose .

[14+kitties]

Originally Posted by mona_b

I know my educating with friends and co workers has paid off. I have a few friends who have/are showing, but have no plans on breeding.

That is always good to hear!! Keep up the good work mf.

Originally Posted by TeriM

Judging by a few of the responses in this thread I would say that it is already paying off at a few good people at a time

Yes, I sure hope so Teri. Hopefully this thread can continue to educate with positive information. That would be wonderful!

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

That is always good to hear!! Keep up the good work mf.

I try mf, I try.

I may have to repeat myself to people sometimes, but I'm used to that. LOL.

I used to get flack from as to why my boys were fixed. Yes they came from an amazing ethical breeder and so did the Sire. Titles galore. And many on the Canine Unit. My answer to them, they are my pets/companions. I leave the breeding to the ethical breeders.

My niece text me today. She said she had a couple of people ask if she planned to use Deacon as a stud. Deacon is her NEUTERED Black Russian Terrier.

What the He!! is up with people wanting to breed? I just don't get it. And it's just so frustrating. Honestly, I have absalutely no issues with people wanting to go to ethical breeders. It's their choice. I did it. And used the same breeder for all 3. But seriously, just because you have a registered dog, that doesn't mean you need to breed.

Look at these doodles, noodles, shipoos, morkies, dorkies ect. They put 2 different breeds together. Do you honestly think that each parent that made this "breed" came from an ethical breed? Not at all. Ethical breeders cringe to all this designer breeding.

Wow Terri, now THAT is a breeder you want.

I take it you will be going to meet her?

But the good thing is they can be altered.

My GSD was neutered at 6 months. He is SchH III titled. Deacon is also SchH III Titled. See you can own an altered dog and have titles too.